Awhile back, Para-Goomba suggested that we link all of the important science of PE posts in one thread. I think that it is a great idea.
Please link the best science of PE threads and posts here. Different posts from the same thread may be listed here separately. List the date at the top of the post and say why you think that the thread and/or post is significant. Posts may be rearranged or consolidated for organizational purposes.
Comments on how you think the information should be organized are very welcome.
Questions posted in this thread may be moved to this first post so check this post for updates.
Once we have all of the important information linked here, we can arrange it in a clear and logical way so that science minded newbies can more quickly and easily get up to speed. Maybe it will be part of the Thunder’s wiki.
“Their protocol for treating joint contractures using a similar adjustable device is to begin with one 30 minute session per day for the first week, go to 2 30 minute sessions the second week, and 3 per day for the remaining weeks. Retensioning is done every 5 minutes.”
This may or may not be the first thread on this subject.
I linked this because it references a method for lengthening tissue.
“…collagen deformation…the take home message…is taking adequate time off between sessions depending on the nature of the excercise, and depending on what part of the healing phase the tissues are in. I’ve listed some of the stress amounts listed below, while being high, are withing the realms of hangers and stretchers here. You can get the full article here: http://www.sahs.utmb.edu/programs/p…hrx/ROM2000.doc
The stress is divided into four bands which are defined very roughly as follows:
A <80N (<18lbs) B 80-180N (18-40lbs) C 180-280N (40-63lbs) D >280N (>63lbs)”
I linked this because it discusses collagen deformation. Collagen is a structural protein that plays a role in determining the volume of the erect penis.
“I talked to the doc about this too. I was actually asking for her opinion on stretching the tunica — the tendon-like tissue that is just a continuation of the BC/IC muscles at the base of the penis…
She was rather fond of the idea that we have to enlarge both the tunica and the smooth muscle. She went on to tell me that she once worked in physical therapy with kids that had head injuries. She said “the malfunctioned neurons of the kids caused their muscles to contract for long periods of time.” As a result, their tendons shrank, and the kid’s arms were bunched up. It was a really sad story…
But as fortune has it, this is were she came into play: it was her job to help fix the problem. They had to stretch the tendons, so the kids could have the full use their arms again. She says they used slow, gentle stretches everyday, and as a result the tendons would elongate. “The key was persistence,” she said. (I thought this sounded pretty familiar).
So, at this point my main question was does the tendons (or tunica) tear, get thinner, or what exactly when stretched? She said she didn’t know, but she doesn’t think tendons tear or become thinner. She thinks tendons, and probably the tunica, just elongate (regeneration, I presume)…
03-06-2006 “…based on the IPR Theory of repair http://www.electrotherapy.org/elect…ling/tissue.htm for connective (i.e. contractive) tissues in (as much as possible) the non-contracted state. Much of my thinking and understanding of this material has been influenced by discussion with or posts by MX and Shiver. Much thanks guys.”
I linked this because it includes mathematical modeling of PE.
This modeling is of the wound healing process as it pertains to the trauma induced by the practice of manual penis enlargement.
The wound healing process is discussed in the publication and posts in the following thread:
“Acute inflammatory phase. In this phase, ischemia, metabolic disturbance, and cell membrane damage lead to inflammation, which, in turn, is characterized by infiltration of inflammatory cells, tissue edema, fibrin exudation, capillary wall thickening, capillary occlusions, and plasma leakage. Clinically, inflammation manifests as swelling, erythema, increased temperature, pain, and loss of function. The process is time dependent and mediated by vascular, cellular, and chemical events culminating in tissue repair and sometimes scar (adhesion) formation.
Proliferative phase. These changes include fibrin clotting and a proliferation of fibroblasts, synovial cells, and capillaries. The inflammatory cells eliminate the damaged tissue fragments by phagocytosis, and fibroblasts extensively and markedly elevate production of collagen (initially, the weaker, type 3 collagen, later type 1) and other extracellular matrix components.
Maturation and remodeling phase. In this phase, the proteoglycan-water content of the healing tissue decreases and type 1 collagen fibers start to assume a normal orientation. Approximately 6 to 8 weeks postinjury, the new collagen fibers can withstand near-normal stress, although final maturation of tendon and ligament tissue may take as long as 6 to 12 months.”
“Physiologic Indicators (PIs) to help growth! NEGATIVE PIs meaning that when you see these, it is a sign that you are over training your unit, and you need to cut back the amount of force/time applied. POSITIVE PIs means that it is an excellent indicator that you are NOT over training your unit, and probably improving it. NEUTRAL PIs, are neither obviously positive or negative.”
I linked this because it is directed at defining indicators of productive PE.
“Originally Posted by pubmed 1: J Urol. 2004 Feb;171(2 Pt 1):771-4. Related Articles, Links
Sildenafil preserves intracorporeal smooth muscle after radical retropubic prostatectomy.
Schwartz EJ, Wong P, Graydon RJ.
Division of Urology, University of Connecticut Health Sciences Center, Farmington, USA.
link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/…earch&DB=pubmed Quote: The important role of corpora cavernosal smooth muscle in potency has been known since Goldstein et al reported the first examination of erectile tissue. 8 Normal smooth muscle content and function are necessary for the initiation and maintenance of erection. 6 Published reports suggest that the average intracorporeal smooth muscle percent is between 40% and 50%. 9 Our unpublished data confirm this rate with the finding of an incidence of smooth muscle of about 49% in normal potent males in the general population. In contrast, patients with veno-occlusive dysfunction show a much lower percent on microscopic examination. A prior study suggested that these patients have a smooth muscle percent of 10% to 36%. 9 Concomitant intracorporeal fibrosis results in abnormal smooth muscle function, increased venous leakage and eventually impotence.”
There are many physiological ideas in this thread. The first post starts a discussion on penile smooth muscle.
“read an article on the regeneration of smooth muscles in pigs (ureter) which has an interesting point. It seems that in this particular case, the regenerated muscle tissues were interwoven with collagen fibers. It states “The regenerated smooth-muscle bundles were oriented in different directions and intermingled with fibrous tissue.” May have significance?”
“…I sometimes do is watch porn after I apply the 4AD. Maybe thats the key. If your on 4AD, watch some porn post-appliction, try not to touch your dick, you dont want to rub the stuff off. Keeping an errection could help enhance the local effect.”
In this post, the thread originator is in the progress of discussing likelihood of site specific activity of a trandermally applied hormone to the penis. The utility of site specific application was a major theme in this thread.
“Ok. It has been 21 days. I an going to stop my cycle now. I will probably resume in 10 days or so.
Starting ELBP length: 6.5 Ending ELBP length: 7.1
Starting BP flaccid stretch: 6.75 Ending BP flaccid stretch: 7.25
Starting EG: 5.0 Ending EG: 5.45
PE excersizes: Zero. Cardio: Run once per week. Lifting: Once per week. Applications per day:2. Approx mass of 4AD in each ap: 20 mgs. Weight: No fluctuations. Hair line: No change. Sleep: 8 hrs. Masturbation Frequency: zero. Vits: Mg/Zn/Bcomplex. Meditation: Yes.”
These are the reported results of the thread originator. “Yes, I briefly tried 3alpha for a few days. Nothing significantly different.” was added in response to a question in post #281. There are other reports of gains, or a lack there of, in the thread. There are other observations such as the following:
This poster also reported a small gain in size; however, he had very recently performed manual exercises. He quit manual exercises when he began the hormonal applications and the rest form manual PE may have affected his erectile angle.
“Adding testosterone to your body causes the testes to stop producing testosterone. Why should they produce it when that work is being done for them artificially? The common result of the cessation of production is that the testicles begin to atrophy. The downside of that process is that testosterone begins to convert to other classes of hormones which are not at all good for men in large numbers. Finding your way back to normal again can be a very long and highly complicated process. IF you got a bigger dick from all that, you’d wish while you were trying to get back to normal that you still had a smaller dick, and balls that were doing their regular work.”
This post is a warning a danger associated with disrupting normal hormonal function.
“…you are doing PE by stretching to measure. Granted, it’s not much. I gained 1/2” my first month from a very minimal routine, only doing about half a dozen workouts.
Also, you have stopped masturbating (ejaculating). Does this include sex too? If I went more than a few days without blowing a load I’d have very frequent and very hard erections. If this is happening to you it could explain the size increase - your dick has become healthier, living up more toward its potential, and also actually increasing in size as a result of the “super erections.” IIRC, you said you are taking yohimbe. This may also be helping the quality of your erections.”
In this reply, several important points are made. Initial gains are frequently easily obtained, seminal retention can lead to more rigid erections as can the consumption of yohimbe. I modified the first sentence. In response, the original poster claims to have controlled for these variables.
“There is no way to curb potential risks to the prostate. It is such close proximity to the where you are putting this gel that even if it was 90% local, there still would be effects shown by the prostate.
There are no 90 /100% local delivery methods. If you make this more local then you increase the dangers by making it able to be local anywhere you put it. An accidental spill on the testis would be a very bad thing instead of a minor irritation. I would need to find the effects of direct contact to the testicles.”
This post points out the dangers associated with topical delivery of a hormone to the penis.
Importantly, in the publications that follow there are many reports of an enlarged penis as a result of androgen application to prepubescent males and/or individuals with hormonal disorders. I don’t know of any published cases of an enlarged penis in normal healthy post pubescent men in response to androgen application. That is not to say that has not been published in one of the following references.
Relevant scientific publications:
Testosterone therapy in microphallic hypospadias: Topical or parenteral?, Journal of Pediatric Surgery, Volume 38, Issue 2, February 2003, Pages 221-223 G. Chalapathi, K. L. N. Rao, S. K. Chowdhary, K. L. Narasimhan, Ram Samujh and J. K. Mahajan
Steroid 17-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase deficiency in man: An inherited form of male pseudohermaphroditism, The Journal of Steroid Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, Volume 43, Issue 8, December 1992, Pages 989-1002
Androgens are not Major Down-regulators of Androgen Receptor Levels during Growth of the Immature Rat Penis, The Journal of Steroid Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, Volume 57, Issues 5-6, March 1996, Pages 301-313 Jacob RajferShen Ruoqing, Lin Ming-Chung, Farshid Sadeghi, Néstor F. Gonzalez-Cadavid and Ronald S. Swerdloff
Response of micropenis to topical testosterone and gonadotrophines. A comparative study (author’s transl), Anales Espanoles De Pediatria, Volume 16, Issue 2, February 1982, Pages 145-152 Díaz Gómez, L A; Lagarón Comba, E; Pérez Escariz, P
Response of micropenis to topical testosterone and gonadotropin, The Journal Of Urology, Volume 119, Issue 5, May 1978, Pages 667-668 Klugo, R C; Cerny, J C
“CONCLUSIONS: Testosterone influences penile growth, possibly as a result of extracellular stromal expansion. The number of androgen receptor positive cells in the human fetal penis did not change among the castrate, normal and super testosterone hosts. These experiments support the hypothesis that penile growth cessation is mediated by mechanisms other than down regulation of the androgen receptor.”
“DHT is the stimulatory growth factor responsible for full development of the external genitalia in males. A novel use of DHT may be the topical application to congenitally undersized genitalia to enhance penile growth.”
Highlights From the VII International Congress of Andrology held in Montreal, Canada
Eur J Endocrinol. 1998 Feb;138(2):176-80. Effect of insulin-like growth factor-I treatment on serum androgens and testicular and penile size in males with Laron syndrome (primary growth hormone resistance). Laron Z, Klinger B. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/…2&dopt=Abstract
“sparkyx had proposed the idea that deformation of tissue adjacent to clamps is where girth gains come from in aristocane’s clamping thread. The idea made sense to me from the standpoint of strain ellipses which I tried to explain:”
This thread discusses a model of tissue is deformed by clamps when clamping the penis as a PE exercise.
“Types of Stretch (Deformation of the Connective Tissue)
Elastic: - Spring-like action in which any lengthening of the connective tissue that occurs during stretching is recovered when the load is removed. - Muscle fiber has only elastic properties.
Plastic: - Elongation occurs even after the load is removed. - Ligaments & tendons have both plastic and elastic properties. - Connective tissue has both. When the stretch is removed, the elastic deformation recovers and the plastic deformation remains.”
This thread discusses models of the different types of tissue deformation.