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One of the inevitable side-effects of PE is darkening or discolouration of the penis. But it doesn’t have to be that way!
There are posts scattered around Thunder’s Place on the ‘firegoat roll’ but no definitive thread, so here it is; the best and simplest way to avoid discolouration in the first place, or to slowly reverse it if you already have it. It is of course better not to let it build up in the first place!
How to do a firegoat roll:
Imagine you’ve just washed your hands and are using one of those hot air hand dryers; you rub your hands together with the fingers parallel to each other, at the same sort of speed you would count to 10 at. Try counting to 10 while rubbing your palms together now!
Now place your penis between your palms and do the same. As a starting point for pressure when doing the firegoat roll, imagine rolling a piece of dough or pastry into a cylinder; you don’t want to roll too fast or slow, and you certainly don’t want to squash the dough flat or make no impression on it at all. Use that as a starting point and vary speed and force around it. Different levels of erection will require different speeds and force. You’ll quickly get a feel for the right speed and pressure with a bit of practice.
I find it’s best to do a few jelqs first and then do firegoat rolls at around 50% erection - 40-60% is good. It’s possible to get results at any erection level from flaccid to about 75%. Although you can do them flaccid, they work better with some erection and after some jelqs first. I’m keeping it simple so won’t explain why the jelqs help, but they do.
How far round should you rotate your penis?
You will automatically do it the right amount, trust me. The more you twist the harder it is to twist further. And if it’s fairly flaccid and you are going at a sensible speed, you won’t do any damage anyway. You are not trying to start a fire with it!
How long should you do it for?
Keep going until discolouration disappears. Some guys do it for 30 seconds and it’s enough. Some guys do it for 3-5 minutes. If you prefer you can do 30 seconds, wait a few seconds then do another 30 seconds and repeat as necessary. If you’ve had a heavy session, there may still be a bit of redness that doesn’t completely go. If you get to a point where you are not making further improvement, that’s the time to stop. You can always do a few quick flaccid ones throughout the day when you go for a pee.
If you have existing discolouration you are trying to get rid of, you can do a minute or two of jelqs then some rolls several times a day. It may take a while, but most people get results from them. To get rid of existing discolouration, the jelqs before rolling become much more important.
Post PE discolouration is primarily a histologic change caused by vasopermeability under pressure in the case of fairly light sustained PE, or in more ‘aggressive’ PE, by focal hemorrhage in the upper dermis (red spots), and (simple version) the firegoat roll works by manually squeezing the congested blood etc. out of the tissues. The sooner the waste is removed the sooner fresh nutrients can be delivered to the tissue to aid in repair, so in fact the firegoat roll does much more than just help with discoloration
Although it bears my name, I make no claim to inventing the firegoat roll – I’m sure lots of guys were doing it long before I popularised it, but no one was talking about it, or specifically the fact that it combats discolouration.
It’s been around a long time now and the name gets used on various other PE sites
Everyone who is concerned about discolouration can quickly and easily benefit from it. Whether you are a newbie or a vet, it can be added to any routine.
Someone asked me in a PM what insights and wisdom I could share from years on this forum. It’s not a carefully crafted response, it’s just thrown at the page, but for anyone who might benefit, this was my response:
It would be easy to boil it down to a few simple (if slightly cryptic) statements and as I’m still short of time the first things that come to mind are doubtlessly the most important/oft said:
Heat makes the difference between gaining quickly or slowly for some guys, or between gaining slowly instead or not at all for others.
You have to be consistent. X number of days a week, no sporadic week on week off, taking long breaks etc., unless you are injured or on holiday. Don’t be afraid of taking time off, but don’t do it out of laziness!
Every routine should include some jelqing for penis health. It stretches the tunica layers in both directions, helps fluid exchange between tissue layers, brings fresh oxygenated blood into the penis etc.
There are only 2 variables in PE: loading/force/resistance/vacuum etc. AND time. You need to use ‘enough’ of the former, but time i.e. length of PE sessions, is more important than the force used. Longer, lighter sessions work; short intense sessions toughen up the tissues to loading and bring gains to a halt, making it harder to gain from anything in the future (don’t forget tissue memory - even after a long lay-off tissues that have been over ‘toughened’ in the past will gain strength, not length quickly again!). Clamping too early in your PE ‘career’ is the worst contributor to this, as is stretching too hard or erect jelqing, especially without heat.
In a fully erect penis the tunica layers are ‘locked up’ and require a great deal of force to be moved further. In a slightly less erect penis the tunica layers will ‘give’ more easily.
Having one or 2 sessions a week when you have lots of time and can do a fairly intensive session and push your penis to ‘new heights’, followed by gentler recovery sessions the rest of the week that just take your penis to full expansion (e.g. jelqing, edging) without forcing it, are much better than over or under-working your penis every day.
‘Recovery days’ don’t necessarily mean no PE, but you need at least one or 2 days a week of proper rest to avoid injuries creeping up on you.
Every routine should include firegoat rolls, unless you like a darker coloured penis….
Rome wasn’t built in a day. There are no magic methods or perfect routines.
The ideal penis size for a varied sex life (good blowjobs, different positions, grinding, pounding, anal if you like it etc.) is 7.6” BPEL x 5.6” Mid Girth. People who have a wife can adjust it to suit her. People who just jack off to porn can go for any size they want :)
Those are the first things that come to mind. If I had more time I’d have probably worded them better, or added lots of other stuff, but those are the basics.
Hope that helps.
I wanted to take a minute to share my experience with Dr. Elist. I will let you know up front that this is going to be a long post. It is a play-by-play of my experience with pictures. I hope that others appreciate it and find it helpful.
Let me first say that my initial impression of Dr. Elist was that he is a very kind and caring surgeon. At times he can seem rushed, but at the same time it was nice that every time I spoke with him he remembered who I was.
When I began calling and emailing Dr. Elist, inquiring about the penile implant he was very enthusiastic about telling me all the great things about the silicone implant. After spending a lot of time talking with him over several occasions I was convinced that this was the way to go, I scheduled the surgery. I have to admit that I was extremely excited and nervous at the same time. This was a huge decision and a giant leap of faith.
So I hop on a plane and I fly to LA and meet Dr. Elist at his office. This was my first time to actually meet him face to face. I filled out my paper work, paid the remainder of the surgery and Dr. Elist drove me to the surgery center. Everyone that worked in his office and the surgery center was extremely friendly. Everyone made me feel comfortable and I not at all like I was weird for being there, even though they all knew my reason.
Waking from surgery I could tell that my penis was certainly a lot bigger, even though it was wrapped in bandages. I was in a little pain, but nothing unbearable. Dr. Elist picked me up and dropped me off at a Barnes and Noble of all places for a while (where I ended up falling asleep). He did so because he did not tell me that I had to have someone with me to drive me to the hotel and would not let me take a cab. He then came back and drove me to the hotel.
All was well. I flew home the next day. There was pain, but it was well controlled by the meds (Tylenol 3). The night time erections were the worst part. I was getting up every 30 minutes, walking it off and back to sleep for another 30 min. I have a fairly high pain tolerance, but these things were the worst pain I have ever felt in my life. Intense pain does not even describe it.
I will post some of the pictures that I emailed to Dr. Elist in my updates to him. I won’t include every single picture I sent him, but I will include pictures from every batch I sent. But as I can only post five pictures at a time, each day will have to be a new post.
Within the first week, the pain had greatly decreased, still painful night time erections, though. I was very bruised and swollen, but Dr. Elist assured me that all was well, it was normal and just to keep it wrapped.
By day 10 the swelling had gone down a lot. My scrotum was still very tender and bruised, but I was told that it would go away and was natural after a surgery like this. I was concerned that my penis was taking a downward curve and that it could not be lifted due to being stiff and the base. Dr. Elist said that it would be fine and I just needed to wait out the 6-8 weeks for healing time.
At day 14 things were going well. I was still concerned about the downward curve my penis was taking on, but I was waiting as Dr. Elist instructed. My skin was a little dry from the constant wrapping, still a little dull pain in the scrotum and a little residual bruising.
After this, Dr. Elist told me that I could stop wrapping at night, but continue wrapping during the day. I was glad to hear that. However, on the morning of day 16 I woke to a large blood stain on my sheets. I told Dr. Elist about this and that it came from behind the glans. Dr. Elist said that I had more than likely popped a stitch in my sleep. He told me not to worry and apply neosporin to the spot daily and to go back to wrapping all the time. On day 19 I sent him an email explaining that when I remove the wrap and dressing it begins to bleed. I also told him that I could see something coming through (you can see it in the photos) and I was told that it was simply fat and skin that was visible because of the tear. I was to continue wrapping and applying neosporin and it would heal on its own.
At this time, Dr. Elist was overseas and had passed me along to another doctor that was to watch over my situation while he was away. This doctor, although very kind, was not very helpful, telling me that I needed to hang in there until Dr. Elist made it back. When he came back he told me that I needed to keep my penis wrapped for 72 hours. That puts me at day 28. After removing the wrap and dressing, things appeared like they were on the right track. You could still faintly see the “skin and fat” but it looked a lot better.
Back to wrapping for 72 hours, changing the wrap and then another 72 hours. This put me at day 33. I found that when cleaning, if I moved the glans the slightest little bit, it would begin to bleed again. I could not tell exactly where it was coming from, but I knew that it was under the glans in the little “channel” formed by the implant. Of course my skin was very dry due to all the wrapping, but I just applied moisturizer as directed by Dr. Elist.
After another 72 hours of being wrapped, things looked decent. I tried my absolute best not to move the glans because I did not want to risk opening anything that was healing. I of course still had a lot of dry skin, and was simply directed to continue the application of neosporin behind the glas and moisturizer on the shaft. I was instructed from this point to wrap for 48 hours.
On day 40 things took a turn. When I removed the wrap, my penis began weeping a light red or orange liquid and you can see something coming through the skin. There was a little swelling and the downward curve had become more prominent, with the glans and penis sitting “below” the implant. At this point I had been wrapping for 40 days straight, with the exception of the one night and to change the wrap.
On day 42 while changing the wrap and dressing I took close up pictures of what was coming through my skin. Dr. Elist told me not to worry, that it was cologen and nothing to worry about. Although I had my doubts and thought “There is no way that is collogen. You can clearly see a geometric patter!” To me it looked like the clear flexible tubing that has mesh embedded for strength, but I did not know what collogen looked like. At this point all I can do is trust my doctor.
On day 44 it looked like things were moving in the right direction. The mess seemed smaller and that it might actually heal. When I removed the dressing there was a spot (about the size of a pencil eraser) of fluid that did not appear to be blood. It was much too light. Keeping my penis firmly wrapped for so long had caused some fluid retention in my glans. Of course my skin was still dry and flakey.
After another 48 hours I removed the wrap and to my surprise there was no blood or fluid on the dressing. You could however, still the “thing” coming through. Dr. Elist told me to apply a lot of moisturizer to the skin and neosporin to the incision. He said that healing looks good, but is not complete (ya think?) and that it should be all healed in a few days. That was music to my ears. I only had a few more days of this and everything would be good.
Dr. Elist instructed me to wrap behind the glans and part of the way down, but to leave the remainder of the penis unwrapped. The skin that was unwrapped began looking a lot better and that part filled out to 6.5” around. When the wrap was removed, fluid would weep from behind the glans.
At this point Dr. Elist told me that he want me to try wrapping loosely, just tight enough to keep the dressing in place. He said that he thinks I am getting fluid retention in my glans, which I thought was weird because I stated that to him days earlier. I used the neosporin and wrapped loosely as instructed. On the next day as I was changing the wrap/dressing, the “thing” was more noticable. The swelling of the glans did go down some, but the amount of drainage greatly increased. If you put any pressure at all on the shaft more and more fluid would come out, sometimes like a steady stream, and would make a sound that sort of sounded like loose suction. I can’t describe it very well, but I will never forget what it sounded like. Letting my penis hang on its own would also allow more drainage. It had also developed a bulge on the side of my penis. It looked like the implant was folded or bent.
That day Dr. Elist said that he needed to see me back at his office. There was no rush, he just wanted me to start looking at making arrangements. On day 54 even more was coming through. The tear was appearing to increase in size instead of decrease. There was a great deal of drainage as well. This time it was a lot darker, instead of the light color it had been. Dr. Elist wanted me to go to a urologist in my town and have a culture done to make sure there was no infection. He said that he would speak with him and let him know what was going on. If everything was good and there was no infection he would have me come back and would stitch the implant back in place.
The next day was a little worse. It looked like the tear was getting bigger and the skin was getting thinner. There was major drainage. When the wrap was not on the stuff would just keep coming. It was the same dark color, maybe a little darker. Even putting pressure on my lower abdomen would make more come out.
Two days later was my appointment with the urologist here. I had never had a reason to see a urologist but he was very nice, late 30s, personable, etc. However, I do not think I have ever been more embarrassed in my life. Completely mortified. The doctor brought me into the room along with a couple of nurses. He was expecting an older man because Dr. Elist told him that I had a penile implant. I am far from that. He had me lay on the table and asked me to move the gown and explain what was the problem. I just looked at him, then at the two young nurses, then back to him. He sat down next to me and said “It’s ok. I can have one of the nurses leave, but I have to keep one of them.” I nodded and one of them left. I moved my gown and he took the wrap off. When he did fluid poured out and out and out. I just covered my face. When he couldn’t get any more fluid to come out he inserted a long q-tip in the hole quite a ways down my shaft. He didnt have to squeeze or force it in, there was plenty of room between my penis and the implant. He re-wrapped my penis and said that he would call Dr. Elist to discuss things.
Day50a.JPG Day50evening3.JPG Day50evening7.JPG Day50f.JPG
The doctors office called me back a few days later and told me that there was no infection, which was very good news. I was still draining fluid and still had the open cut behind the glans. I forgot to mention that my erection was also an inch shorter than before surgery, and my flaccid length had remained unchanged.
On day 66 another corner of the implant started poking through. Up to this point it was just the left corner of the right half of the implant. Now it was both. I am sorry, I do not have a picture of it.
Two days later I was back in Dr. Elist’s office. It was actually very tough to make arrangements; not on his part or mine, but this was booking flights last minute is tough. When Dr. Elist examined the situation he said that there was no way he could safely suture the implant back in place. There was too much damage to the skin and the sutures would just rip out again. He removed the implant on an exam table in his office. He told me there would be no charge for the removal. That was generous of him, don’t you think? It felt good to have it out, but it also felt like defeat.
Here I had spent thousands of dollars to get a bigger penis only to go through 2 months of hell. Dr. Elist said that I should not worry, that I would get a full refund and he would get a refund from the manufacturer. He told me that we would let everything heal and try it again down the road if I wanted. Hell no.
Two days later my penis had severe retraction. It became a nub.
Roughly one month later the incision had healed nicely. I was still severely retracted, however, and very nervous. At this point all I want to do is get back to my starting size.
A month later I had regained most of my flaccid length, but there was an adhesion (Dr. Elist’s term) on the shaft that kept my skin from moving forward. I was also 2” shorter erect than prior to surgery. At the two month mark after removal I had regained all of my flaccid length, but no erect length. After the stitches were good and healed, Dr. Elist placed me on a pumping schedule with a pump that he provided. By mid-July I had gained some of my erect length back, but was still 1.5” shorter. At least it was a move in the right direction. My penis had also taken a distinct upward curve. Before I was straight as a board. It didn’t go left, right, up or down at all. Now it curves upward at mid-shaft.
There was a large firm mass at the base of my penis. I had to fly back to him and he said that they would inject it with kenalog and lidocain and that would make it go away. He gave me a shot in his office and showed me what to do. He then provided me with the drugs and supplies to do as he did at home four times. It did shrink whatever was there, but there is still some tightness and a small “something” about the size of a pea.
As it stands now 1.5 years after surgery, my flaccid length and girth are same as before, my erect girth is about .25” bigger and my erect length is between 1-1.5” shorter.
When all of this started, Dr. Elist asked me that I not share these photos with anyone and to only discuss this with him. He told me that he would take care of everything and I would be fine. I reminded him again that he told me I would get a refund, but he said that he will not give me a refund. That made me very mad and sad at the same time because I have stood by him through this whole thing, trusting him that what he says is good and true. Now I am out several thousand dollars for the procedure, plus thousands in airfare, and I have a shorter penis than I started with.
I am tired of being silent about my experience. I simply want people to know that there are potentially very bad outcomes from surgery. Please think long and hard before going into something like this. I learned my lesson the hard way.
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