The big penis and mens' sexual health source, increasing penis size around the world.
You have just arrived at the best source for penis enlargement information around. We're biased but we're a non-commercial community, we make no profit which is rare for this subject. If you are trying to get a bigger dick, you stand more chance of getting to the correct information here.
If you are new, don't spend any money on heavily marketed pills, ointments and devices. You don't need to spend any money to increase your penis size! You will gain more quickly using your hands and lube. Check the FAQ for a place to start or hit New to see what's going on right now. If you want to join the forum, click Join Now above to do that.
We are very inclusive here, so whatever your sexual leaning, you will be welcome. You don't even need a penis to participate. Girls, after you've joined, you might like our Life, Love and Fantasies forum. It's OK to lurk.
I wanted to take a minute to share my experience with Dr. Elist. I will let you know up front that this is going to be a long post. It is a play-by-play of my experience with pictures. I hope that others appreciate it and find it helpful.
Let me first say that my initial impression of Dr. Elist was that he is a very kind and caring surgeon. At times he can seem rushed, but at the same time it was nice that every time I spoke with him he remembered who I was.
When I began calling and emailing Dr. Elist, inquiring about the penile implant he was very enthusiastic about telling me all the great things about the silicone implant. After spending a lot of time talking with him over several occasions I was convinced that this was the way to go, I scheduled the surgery. I have to admit that I was extremely excited and nervous at the same time. This was a huge decision and a giant leap of faith.
So I hop on a plane and I fly to LA and meet Dr. Elist at his office. This was my first time to actually meet him face to face. I filled out my paper work, paid the remainder of the surgery and Dr. Elist drove me to the surgery center. Everyone that worked in his office and the surgery center was extremely friendly. Everyone made me feel comfortable and I not at all like I was weird for being there, even though they all knew my reason.
Waking from surgery I could tell that my penis was certainly a lot bigger, even though it was wrapped in bandages. I was in a little pain, but nothing unbearable. Dr. Elist picked me up and dropped me off at a Barnes and Noble of all places for a while (where I ended up falling asleep). He did so because he did not tell me that I had to have someone with me to drive me to the hotel and would not let me take a cab. He then came back and drove me to the hotel.
All was well. I flew home the next day. There was pain, but it was well controlled by the meds (Tylenol 3). The night time erections were the worst part. I was getting up every 30 minutes, walking it off and back to sleep for another 30 min. I have a fairly high pain tolerance, but these things were the worst pain I have ever felt in my life. Intense pain does not even describe it.
I will post some of the pictures that I emailed to Dr. Elist in my updates to him. I won’t include every single picture I sent him, but I will include pictures from every batch I sent. But as I can only post five pictures at a time, each day will have to be a new post.
Within the first week, the pain had greatly decreased, still painful night time erections, though. I was very bruised and swollen, but Dr. Elist assured me that all was well, it was normal and just to keep it wrapped.
By day 10 the swelling had gone down a lot. My scrotum was still very tender and bruised, but I was told that it would go away and was natural after a surgery like this. I was concerned that my penis was taking a downward curve and that it could not be lifted due to being stiff and the base. Dr. Elist said that it would be fine and I just needed to wait out the 6-8 weeks for healing time.
At day 14 things were going well. I was still concerned about the downward curve my penis was taking on, but I was waiting as Dr. Elist instructed. My skin was a little dry from the constant wrapping, still a little dull pain in the scrotum and a little residual bruising.
After this, Dr. Elist told me that I could stop wrapping at night, but continue wrapping during the day. I was glad to hear that. However, on the morning of day 16 I woke to a large blood stain on my sheets. I told Dr. Elist about this and that it came from behind the glans. Dr. Elist said that I had more than likely popped a stitch in my sleep. He told me not to worry and apply neosporin to the spot daily and to go back to wrapping all the time. On day 19 I sent him an email explaining that when I remove the wrap and dressing it begins to bleed. I also told him that I could see something coming through (you can see it in the photos) and I was told that it was simply fat and skin that was visible because of the tear. I was to continue wrapping and applying neosporin and it would heal on its own.
At this time, Dr. Elist was overseas and had passed me along to another doctor that was to watch over my situation while he was away. This doctor, although very kind, was not very helpful, telling me that I needed to hang in there until Dr. Elist made it back. When he came back he told me that I needed to keep my penis wrapped for 72 hours. That puts me at day 28. After removing the wrap and dressing, things appeared like they were on the right track. You could still faintly see the “skin and fat” but it looked a lot better.
Back to wrapping for 72 hours, changing the wrap and then another 72 hours. This put me at day 33. I found that when cleaning, if I moved the glans the slightest little bit, it would begin to bleed again. I could not tell exactly where it was coming from, but I knew that it was under the glans in the little “channel” formed by the implant. Of course my skin was very dry due to all the wrapping, but I just applied moisturizer as directed by Dr. Elist.
After another 72 hours of being wrapped, things looked decent. I tried my absolute best not to move the glans because I did not want to risk opening anything that was healing. I of course still had a lot of dry skin, and was simply directed to continue the application of neosporin behind the glas and moisturizer on the shaft. I was instructed from this point to wrap for 48 hours.
On day 40 things took a turn. When I removed the wrap, my penis began weeping a light red or orange liquid and you can see something coming through the skin. There was a little swelling and the downward curve had become more prominent, with the glans and penis sitting “below” the implant. At this point I had been wrapping for 40 days straight, with the exception of the one night and to change the wrap.
On day 42 while changing the wrap and dressing I took close up pictures of what was coming through my skin. Dr. Elist told me not to worry, that it was cologen and nothing to worry about. Although I had my doubts and thought “There is no way that is collogen. You can clearly see a geometric patter!” To me it looked like the clear flexible tubing that has mesh embedded for strength, but I did not know what collogen looked like. At this point all I can do is trust my doctor.
On day 44 it looked like things were moving in the right direction. The mess seemed smaller and that it might actually heal. When I removed the dressing there was a spot (about the size of a pencil eraser) of fluid that did not appear to be blood. It was much too light. Keeping my penis firmly wrapped for so long had caused some fluid retention in my glans. Of course my skin was still dry and flakey.
After another 48 hours I removed the wrap and to my surprise there was no blood or fluid on the dressing. You could however, still the “thing” coming through. Dr. Elist told me to apply a lot of moisturizer to the skin and neosporin to the incision. He said that healing looks good, but is not complete (ya think?) and that it should be all healed in a few days. That was music to my ears. I only had a few more days of this and everything would be good.
Dr. Elist instructed me to wrap behind the glans and part of the way down, but to leave the remainder of the penis unwrapped. The skin that was unwrapped began looking a lot better and that part filled out to 6.5” around. When the wrap was removed, fluid would weep from behind the glans.
At this point Dr. Elist told me that he want me to try wrapping loosely, just tight enough to keep the dressing in place. He said that he thinks I am getting fluid retention in my glans, which I thought was weird because I stated that to him days earlier. I used the neosporin and wrapped loosely as instructed. On the next day as I was changing the wrap/dressing, the “thing” was more noticable. The swelling of the glans did go down some, but the amount of drainage greatly increased. If you put any pressure at all on the shaft more and more fluid would come out, sometimes like a steady stream, and would make a sound that sort of sounded like loose suction. I can’t describe it very well, but I will never forget what it sounded like. Letting my penis hang on its own would also allow more drainage. It had also developed a bulge on the side of my penis. It looked like the implant was folded or bent.
That day Dr. Elist said that he needed to see me back at his office. There was no rush, he just wanted me to start looking at making arrangements. On day 54 even more was coming through. The tear was appearing to increase in size instead of decrease. There was a great deal of drainage as well. This time it was a lot darker, instead of the light color it had been. Dr. Elist wanted me to go to a urologist in my town and have a culture done to make sure there was no infection. He said that he would speak with him and let him know what was going on. If everything was good and there was no infection he would have me come back and would stitch the implant back in place.
The next day was a little worse. It looked like the tear was getting bigger and the skin was getting thinner. There was major drainage. When the wrap was not on the stuff would just keep coming. It was the same dark color, maybe a little darker. Even putting pressure on my lower abdomen would make more come out.
Two days later was my appointment with the urologist here. I had never had a reason to see a urologist but he was very nice, late 30s, personable, etc. However, I do not think I have ever been more embarrassed in my life. Completely mortified. The doctor brought me into the room along with a couple of nurses. He was expecting an older man because Dr. Elist told him that I had a penile implant. I am far from that. He had me lay on the table and asked me to move the gown and explain what was the problem. I just looked at him, then at the two young nurses, then back to him. He sat down next to me and said “It’s ok. I can have one of the nurses leave, but I have to keep one of them.” I nodded and one of them left. I moved my gown and he took the wrap off. When he did fluid poured out and out and out. I just covered my face. When he couldn’t get any more fluid to come out he inserted a long q-tip in the hole quite a ways down my shaft. He didnt have to squeeze or force it in, there was plenty of room between my penis and the implant. He re-wrapped my penis and said that he would call Dr. Elist to discuss things.
Day50a.JPG Day50evening3.JPG Day50evening7.JPG Day50f.JPG
The doctors office called me back a few days later and told me that there was no infection, which was very good news. I was still draining fluid and still had the open cut behind the glans. I forgot to mention that my erection was also an inch shorter than before surgery, and my flaccid length had remained unchanged.
On day 66 another corner of the implant started poking through. Up to this point it was just the left corner of the right half of the implant. Now it was both. I am sorry, I do not have a picture of it.
Two days later I was back in Dr. Elist’s office. It was actually very tough to make arrangements; not on his part or mine, but this was booking flights last minute is tough. When Dr. Elist examined the situation he said that there was no way he could safely suture the implant back in place. There was too much damage to the skin and the sutures would just rip out again. He removed the implant on an exam table in his office. He told me there would be no charge for the removal. That was generous of him, don’t you think? It felt good to have it out, but it also felt like defeat.
Here I had spent thousands of dollars to get a bigger penis only to go through 2 months of hell. Dr. Elist said that I should not worry, that I would get a full refund and he would get a refund from the manufacturer. He told me that we would let everything heal and try it again down the road if I wanted. Hell no.
Two days later my penis had severe retraction. It became a nub.
Roughly one month later the incision had healed nicely. I was still severely retracted, however, and very nervous. At this point all I want to do is get back to my starting size.
A month later I had regained most of my flaccid length, but there was an adhesion (Dr. Elist’s term) on the shaft that kept my skin from moving forward. I was also 2” shorter erect than prior to surgery. At the two month mark after removal I had regained all of my flaccid length, but no erect length. After the stitches were good and healed, Dr. Elist placed me on a pumping schedule with a pump that he provided. By mid-July I had gained some of my erect length back, but was still 1.5” shorter. At least it was a move in the right direction. My penis had also taken a distinct upward curve. Before I was straight as a board. It didn’t go left, right, up or down at all. Now it curves upward at mid-shaft.
There was a large firm mass at the base of my penis. I had to fly back to him and he said that they would inject it with kenalog and lidocain and that would make it go away. He gave me a shot in his office and showed me what to do. He then provided me with the drugs and supplies to do as he did at home four times. It did shrink whatever was there, but there is still some tightness and a small “something” about the size of a pea.
As it stands now 1.5 years after surgery, my flaccid length and girth are same as before, my erect girth is about .25” bigger and my erect length is between 1-1.5” shorter.
When all of this started, Dr. Elist asked me that I not share these photos with anyone and to only discuss this with him. He told me that he would take care of everything and I would be fine. I reminded him again that he told me I would get a refund, but he said that he will not give me a refund. That made me very mad and sad at the same time because I have stood by him through this whole thing, trusting him that what he says is good and true. Now I am out several thousand dollars for the procedure, plus thousands in airfare, and I have a shorter penis than I started with.
I am tired of being silent about my experience. I simply want people to know that there are potentially very bad outcomes from surgery. Please think long and hard before going into something like this. I learned my lesson the hard way.
I call this one the Pipe Stretcher. It is a combination of the best elements of what I have built in the past combined with improvements that I felt some of my other designs where lacking. I worked on it with the mindset of it being the last design I may ever make, so it probably is my swan song in the DIY extender game, as I have reached the goals I had hoped to for length and just don’t PE for length any longer. In a nutshell, this is my best attempt to design a easy to build a quality extender from materials you can find at most home building stores. I’ve put a lot of work into documenting the creation process with words as well as pictures because I do not know how quickly I will be able to respond to individual questions. Life has been a struggle lately… but I digress. To the Pipe Stretcher!
It makes use of a “quick noose” system that I have used in past designs. Yes it’s a noose, but it’s not a traditional noose, don’t worry, we will get in to that later. Unlike commercial extenders, this extender is not intended in any way to be hidden beneath clothing. That is for two reasons, one, I believe PE should be closely monitored at all times and secondly, due to the do it yourself nature of the project, easy to find and easy to build with materials can’t compete with custom molded plastic parts for size resulting in a larger end result. That, and nothing in my wardrobe could conceal even the smallest sized extender (except for this) so I scratched that off the list of things to worry about years ago.
Below is the construction tutorial, followed by the calibration, sizing and use of the device. Sorry, I do not have a budget price of what it will cost since I had a lot of the materials around from other projects but I purchased everything I used from the Home Depot, and most of the materials are found in the plumbing section.
The biggest improvements from previous designs are:
After much browsing around about pumping it has become clear to me that while many members understand the mechanics of pumping, many (possibly most) do not. I was writing this post as part of a larger project designed to illustrate how connective tissue is permanently elongated/expanded in the body, which stretching modalities work best to achieve it, and the misconceptions we often have about the process. This ongoing project is based on research and empirical evidence (not specifically regarding the penis, of course, but connective tissue as a whole), and originally I was going to include what I am about to post here as a section regarding pumping. As it worked out I could not find any research examining the effect of vacuum on permanent deformation of tissue. In fact, most research involving tissue and applied vacuums considered closing wounds faster and more efficiently - interesting, but far from our purposes here. So, without finding any research, all I was left with was the application of some physical laws, creating a theoretical model for the effect of pumping. I do believe this theory is sound because it is completely based on physical laws and principles that are, I feel, correctly applied. I hope this can help shed some light on how pumping actually works and the reasons why pumping with warm water in the cylinder is probably preferable.
Water pumping is usually considered superior due to two properties of the water used to fill pump cylinders:
1) The water is warm – the benefits of heat are basically a given when talking about tissue expansion/elongation/deformation. So many here at Thunders have discussed this and presented evidence backing it up that now the bottom line is simply: heat works, use it. In terms of expansion, heat allows it to happen more readily and makes the whole process safer. That is really all I’ll say about heat here as a full discussion of heat will be beyond the scope of what I am trying to show here. Any further mention of heat will merely be to supplement my analysis of the second property of water used to pump.
2) The kinetics and attraction of water molecules in the liquid state (what most people here are talking about when they say, “Water works better because it is incompressible”) – this will be the focus of my analysis here. The basic fluid dynamics of water (or any inert liquid, really) makes it an ideal pumping medium. Hopefully this will explain why and put some misconceptions to rest. So without further ado, the physics of water pumping:
I’d like to start with a common misconception: vacuum pressure is vacuum pressure, regardless of the pumping medium. This idea is both true and false, but what is true about it is rather irrelevant. The idea that “pressure is pressure is pressure” is based on Pascal’s Law which states that wherever pressure is measured in a system it will be equal if the system is closed and the fluid (either liquid or gas) within is at rest. Thus, it can be concluded from this that as far as the measurement of pressure goes, pressure is pressure. As pressure is defined as the force exerted equally in all directions against the walls of a system, it doesn’t even matter whether the system is filled completely with a liquid or gas, pressure will still be equal throughout. Even though gasses are very compressible and liquids are almost completely incompressible, the only difference will be that a much smaller volume of liquid will need to be evacuated from the system to create a similar level of vacuum when compared to gas.
The important point to make to the pumper - where pressure is not simply pressure - has nothing to do with measuring pressure, but instead has to do with the way these two fluids (air and water) each behave kinetically at the molecular level causing them to manifest very different properties under a vacuum. It would still be nice, however, to base the discussion on something that can be measured so that we can at least see something roughly quantifiable. So if pressure is not a good measurement, what is another measurement of vacuum quality that will work? We need to examine Mean Free Path (MFP), a common measure of vacuum quality in physics and aerodynamics.
Mean free path is essentially the distance one particle of a fluid must travel, on average, before encountering another particle. This measurement is closely related to density, but takes into account some other factors which make it more useful in analyzing vacuums, namely temperature/excitation (the speed at which particles are moving at), particle size, and the size and shape of the system. MFP is seldom used when speaking about liquid fluids as their MFP is so low it can generally be considered to be zero, the particles are always touching or extremely close. This, however, definitely is not the case with gaseous fluids. As a partial vacuum is created in a closed system filled with a gas by evacuating some of the gas molecules, fewer and fewer molecules are left behind, the average spaces between them become greater (lower density), and the distance each individual particle must travel in order to encounter another particle becomes greater (higher MFP). To give you an idea of how widely the MFP of partial vacuums filled with gasses can vary check out this example: the MFP at low vacuums (like in our air pump cylinders) can be measured in nanometers, while the MFP in the near-perfect vacuum of deep space is larger than the diameter of many planets. The point here is that gasses will always expand to fit their container no matter how low this brings their density or by how much it reduces their particle interactions (MFP-derived). Liquids, on the other hand, will retain their density and volume, and have a mostly constant, near-zero MFP in a vacuum – they will be in a constant state of particle interaction.
This constant, near-zero MFP of water is due to the molecular attraction and molecular interaction of water. When water freezes (becomes a solid) there are strong attractions between the molecules, they form an orderly lattice structure and just sit there and oscillate a bit – no moving around one another. As energy is applied to the ice and it begins to melt, the molecules begin moving enough to break free of the lattice structure and gain the ability to move around each other in a disorderly pattern, but the molecular attraction remains strong enough to hold the water molecules very close together, allowing almost no compression or expansion and keeping the MFP at basically zero. Hence, liquids take on the shape of their container (molecules can “flow over” one another) but do not expand to fill it (strong molecular attraction), while gasses do both.
The molecular attraction of liquid water is so strong that as a partial vacuum is created in a closed system filled with water the MFP will remain nearly zero, increasing only imperceptibly with the vacuum level, until the vacuum level becomes strong enough to begin overcoming the molecular attractions completely, changing the liquid water into water vapor (i.e. as the vacuum level rises, the vapor pressure of the water equals than exceeds the ambient pressure of the system, to put it in physics terms). So, if you have water in a closed system at room temperature and steadily increase the vacuum level in the system, the water will expand only an imperceptible amount until it begins to boil at room temperature as it vaporizes into a gas. This relationship is also why water boils at a lower temperature at higher elevations where atmospheric pressure is lower. I bring this up to show that at no vacuum we are likely to use while pumping, will water lose its molecular cohesion and desirable properties.
Water’s inability to appreciably expand is what makes it such an ideal pumping medium. To illustrate this, let’s take a look at how penile expansion happens when you pump with only air filling the cylinder. First, however, we need to dismiss another misconception. When pumpers talk about vacuums they like to talk about “pulling” the penis into an expanded state, like thousands of little hands grabbing and pulling out laterally. Though this language is perhaps useful in general discussion, it is not the true pathway which causes expansion. In reality, expansion takes place when pressure within the penis (standard atmospheric pressure) becomes greater than the pressure in the tube. The higher pressure in the penis pushes outward but encounters less resistance, causing expansion. That is, when a vacuum is created around the penis, fluid is hydraulically pushed into the penis, the expansion force is both pushing and internal. This is in accordance with Bernoulli’s Principle. Understanding this, we can examine the mechanics of pumping with air:
1) As the partial vacuum is created, fluid is pushed into the penis through the most immediately available pathway: blood from the central cavernosal arteries floods the erectile chambers. The maximum quick expansion of the erectile chambers, however, is dictated by the elastic expansion range of the tunica albuginea. That is, the penis expands until a maximally erect state is achieved. This happens very quickly as the vacuum is raised higher and higher. Beyond this point (maximum elastic stretch of the tunica), the erectile chambers of the penis will no longer expand so readily, so fluid begins to be pushed into other areas as well.
2) If a vacuum still exists around the penis, the penis will continue to expand. The expansion, however, cannot come from simply filling the erectile chambers with more and more blood due to the resistance of the tunica. So where does the extra fluid come from? Well, if enough expansion force is being exerted constantly on the tunica, the tunica will undergo viscoelastic creep, continuing to slowly expand and allowing more blood into the erectile chambers. If you are able to make permanent gains from pumping, this is probably the mechanism that will prompt the necessary tissue remodeling. Also during this time period, lymph and other fluids are able to seep into and fill the soft tissues between the tunica and skin, creating further – and usually undesirable – expansion. This is what is generally referred to as fluid retention. Because these other fluids must cross semi-permeable membranes to fill the penile tissues, their accumulation is more difficult to achieve at a fast rate and is therefore usually associated with vacuums that are too high and spending too long in the cylinder in a single stretch.
Note: both of these processes are happening simultaneously, but the proportion of fluid retention per unit time will increase greatly after the elastic threshold of the tunica is met and the penis is allowed to continue expanding.
Knowing the mechanical process, what is it about water that makes it so much more desirable as a pumping medium? It is primarily its almost complete inability to compress or expand, as illustrated in the discussion of MFP, which makes it ideal for maximizing the desirable mechanics of pumping.
When air pumping, the penis will expand outward, encountering only a soft, extremely compressible “cushion” of air. After achieving a fully erect state, the vacuum will continue to cause the penis to expand into this cushion, compressing the gas and reducing the pressure differential. This continued expansion, depending on the relative strength of the tunica, will likely be caused by a high proportion of fluid retention/inflow in the soft tissues between the tunica and skin.
When water pumping, on the other hand, the penis will expand outward to a fully erect state, and encounter an incompressible “wall” of water. This wall essentially stops further expansion from happening at an unrestricted rate. If not overzealous with your pumping intensity, this will prevent most fluid retention as there is really no place for the fluid to go – significantly more force is required to shove fluid across membranes into these constricted spaces. Water can slowly be evacuated from the cylinder at this point with the aim of creating a slow further expansion, just fast enough to keep up with the viscoelastic creep of the tunica. Here, the heat of the water also aids in further and easier tunica expansion. In this way, water pumping doesn’t directly “pull” more on the tunica, as many have said here, instead it limits fluid (other than blood) buildup/inflow, allowing more of the total expansion achieved during the pumping session to be from tunica creep.
Just because water retains its density and near-zero compressibility factor in a vacuum, there is still a vacuum, so the penis will continue to expand. If this expansion happens too quickly, there will still be fluid retention, though still probably less than pumping with air at similar pressures. What this means is that water pumping can bring you to a fully erect, maximal elastically expanded state rather quickly and at a slightly lower vacuum than air, but to reap the most possible benefits from the use of water, the vacuum should be increased very slowly from this point to the maximum negative pressure you are going to use for that individual pump session. On subsequent, successive pumps, because connective tissue will retain a great deal of viscoelastic relaxation during a short break, the preliminary vacuum and expansion can probably be a little bit higher each time as the tunica has increased ability to initially expand. After this point, however, the vacuum should be raised slowly once again until you achieve your maximum vacuum level once more.
I hope all of that made sense…
Anything that is PE related.
PE related posts only please.
Hanging and related posts only please.
Traction devices for penis enlargement.
Discussion of pumping technique and related equipment.
For guys just starting PE.
The cream of the crop. The best articles here.
Video based instruction with descriptions in multiple languages.
Chart your progress for others to see.
Injuries from penis enlargement and recovery
Reviews of PE equipment.
Advice and discussions on mens' health: STD, ED, prostate problems etc.
PE and general health tinctures, extracts and potions.
Self image with a focus on the outside
Foros en Español: Público
Foros de acceso libre.
Ejercicios naturales para hacer crecer el pene
Cómo aumentar el tamaño del pene a través del colgamiento de pesos.
Cómo usar aparatos de tracción para aumentar el tamaño del pene.
Cómo usar bombas de vacío para aumentar el tamaño del pene.
Para los que se inician en las técnicas del agrandamiento del pene
Enfermedades venéreas, impotencia, eyaculación precoz, inhibición,...
Forum in Italiano: pubblico
Forum visibili senza registrazione
Solo discussione relative al PE, prego.
Uso di pesi per ingrandire il pene.
Pompe a vacuo e accessori.
Per chi inizia il PE.
Discussioni di particolare interesse.
Prevenire e curare problemi sessuali.
Vita vissuta e riflessioni su di essa
|Forums en Français: Accès Libre|
Discussion relative au PE exclusivement, SVP.
Tout ce qui concerne le hanging
Techniques de pumping et matériels.
Pour ceux qui débutent dans le PE.
Articles particulièrement intéressants
Prévenir et guérir les problèmes sexuels.
Anything except English, Español, Français or Italiano.
If it's about penis enlargement, post it here.
Speak about anything in your own language