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Advice I wish someone had given me when I first started.

Posted by: thoughtfulgold, 09-09-2016 at 12:30 AM - 78 comments

Newbie Theory!

…or just an FAQ made by Yours Truly that discusses things that newbies face and honestly…stuff I wish someone had told me when I started years ago. Could have saved me time and money. And, because I went through all my newbie advice posts and found out it’s about 8 pages of material at this point and only getting longer, I’ll be covering this stuff in sections FAQ style, snark included.

Newbies and Complex Theory- Cuz sometimes there’s a such thing as “too much thinking”

Q: Why do you say “Complex Theory” doesn’t matter to Newbies?
A: Mainly I say this because when you first start anything, the basics are all you are taught. This makes all information you use functional to you at that time. If when you first started driving someone explained to you the intricacies of a pneumatic system controlling your brakes but an electronic not cable ‘by wire’ system controlling your accelerator would it have changed how you drove the car or how it worked for you when you first start a car and drive it for yourself? Or would this matter as you make more informed car decisions down the road as far as a mechanic or vehicle choice? Or…never matter at all? I mean the car will get you to point B whether you understand how it works or not, as long as you understand how to operate it. Functional PE that you can do is all I’m getting at here; doesn’t need to be extensive theory and rocket science.

The reason I advise against “Complex Theory” usage is it distracts from the primary objective of getting your feet wet and helping you get a hands-on understanding of what PE is and what it can mean to you. I mean there are dozens of good articles on this topic and thousands of replies but it’s all based on abstracts until you actually get down and do it. Information overload can slow your progress easily. This is a thing I myself experienced.

Q: Why do you push START HERE ——-> NEWBIE ROUTINE <——- Important Newbie Info all the time?
A: Because most of the thinking that you will be doing for the rest of your PE career is done for you here. This routine is proven to provide a basic level of support for most people in their goals and brings gains to someone who hasn’t done PE before if done properly. There will be select exceptions to this and if you have problems feel free to ask here, that is why we are here, but this basic rubric gives you a place to start and us a place to begin to diagnose any issues that you may have because we know exactly what you are doing since we understand how this routine is laid out.

Any teacher will tell you that teaching the same material makes it easier for students to learn among themselves. And easier for any other teacher to help you learn, because of an innate understanding of the lesson plan. We can help you because we know what this routine usually will do and give. Others can help you because they’ve gained from it so when you post with issues it won’t just be veterans answering, it’ll be people just like you who know what you’re going through also. It is a large part of what our community is based upon. That is the real value of “The Newbie Routine.”

Also, real talk, if I had this resource when I first started my entire PE career would have been different. And this is the one real regret I have about the PE I, thoughtfulgold, have done over the years. It was done alone, solo research, and it cost me tons of time and money I could have saved with some advice and guidance. It can be done alone. If I could turn back the hands of time, I would not have.

Q: Why do you not recommend thoughtfulgold’s Penis Enlargement as “Scheduled Trauma” theory when you recommend “The Newbie Routine”?
A: It really doesn’t apply in the very beginning. Any sort of activity starts with the basics. Me recommending variety is not required. First, there is some variety in the Newbie Routine but a more poignant point is this: You don’t have any practical experience with PE yet. I can’t in good conscience recommend intermediate and advanced exercises yet, much less blending them into a routine. I can’t tell you to go buy expensive devices when you haven’t even really decided if you will stick with Penis Enlargement. I wouldn’t do those things. That would be deceitful, wasteful and I have no money to make off of you or motives in seeing you do more than you need to in the beginning.

Many guys don’t stick with PE and having you stuck with boxes of dusty devices and an injury from attempting advanced exercises at the behest of my advice would make me sad. I wouldn’t wish that upon anyone. Variety comes when you have a comfort level with PE enough to choose and experiment with exercises and devices on your own with an informed mind. You don’t have that comfort level and informed mind yet. You will, if you decide Penis Enlargement is a path you want to walk and you stick with it.

Newbies and Rest- There is rest for the wicked, actually. I use a memory foam mattress myself.
Q: Why are rest days important? Can’t we gain more by using our time more efficiently?
A: Rest is important because injury can result with too much training. Whether that’s lifting too much weight with your arms and shoulders, or tugging too hard or too many times on your penis when you perform your routine. You take days off to avoid aches, pains and dysfunction. Dysfunction like loss of morning wood primarily but anything that is outside of the norm in a bad way. An achy penis is not what you want so you do want to rest and regularly.

Q: What is the best rest day schedule?
A: The one that you can utilize for recovery enough to continue regularly performing your routine. Also, what you can fit into your life, being an adult that may be busy. The basic schemes for rest days are “x days on and x days off” There is 1 on 1 off, 2 on 1 off, up to 5 on and 2 off. And you can easily make up your own rest schedule or omit it entirely. But I do highly recommend you keep including it at least 2 times in a 7 day week, whichever way you see fit.

Personally, if you’re asking thoughtfulgold, I never do more than 3 on and I’ll take 2 off if I do. Generally 2 on 1 off. I’ve experimented with a lot of setups. I don’t like more consecutive days and I don’t have the time to commit consecutively that way. This is my personal experience.

Q: But I heard about “some other new routine that’s super intense and says I don’t need rest if I just am careful and keep pushing!”
A: Those routines are not for newbies. Anyone who says they are isn’t going to be there and help you if you rip your penis off trying them. And if you are willing to accept that risk, understand that most of us here do not have the knowledge of those routines, especially if it’s SUPER NEW AND SPECIAL (read: unknown theory and by someone who has no experience or standing in the community that no one has heard of) and thusly we won’t have the ability to offer much by way of experienced help using said routine.

Personally, I steer clear of these routines. They seem to come by once or twice yearly and have a miracle gainer or two and it seems to me that it is the Penis Enlargement Exercise and Device equivalent of Snake Oil. That is thoughtfulgold’s .02

Newbies and Devices- Take it from someone who has spent thousands on devices…
Q: Hey, I just started PE and I bought this device. Can I use it in my routine?
A: Yes. But I probably will not recommend it. Devices early on are not going to be as effective as your hands and learning about PE with a no cost approach. Marketing will snare more than one man with a sharp mind. It worked on me enough times that if I could trade my devices back I could have a brand new Kia Rio with the cold hard cash I’d have on hand. Do not buy devices in the Newbie Phase. I am sure they will still be for sale after you have experience under your belt. Additionally, your tastes and the device of the month may change by the time you’re ready to make an informed decision.

I can safely say this, having taken the device route myself in my Newbie days. If I hadn’t actually stayed diligent (and I nearly quit more than once after buying nearly $1000 worth the devices in the first 6 months) I would have had a heck of a heavy loss and it could have been avoided with learning manuals and being patient that way. That is just one example of Newbie Device purchasing that went more bad than good.

Q: But this device is optimized for exactly what my goals are! And I already bought it so…I don’t want to be wasteful, what do you think?
A: Answer is still “You can, but I’m going to recommend against it.” And I’ll tell you why, but you have to promise not to get mad. Okay, holding you to it. Read on below.

I highly doubt you know how that device works, not having worn it yet. I mean you know what the advertising said…but not much else, I bet. I also highly doubt that you understand the full range of injuries it can cause you, especially if you haven’t been hurt by something like this before. And I doubt, even more than the first two statements, that you want to find those things out the hard way. It is your money and you are an adult. I cannot, under any circumstances, tell you what you can and cannot do. But take the following from me and many of the others here who have experienced the same.

I have bought more than one device and hurt myself in the first few sessions and had to take a week off. Achy pubic bone, blister, dried and cracked skin on the glans…none of those things were on the boxes of the devices I bought. I also can bet they aren’t on the box or receipt of the device you have either. Just a liability waiver about how this is not intended for medical treatment of any disease (if that warning is even present). Also, that injury list is not exhaustive and this is exactly why we have Injuries and Treatments as a place that others can learn from the mistakes of the past. You can be a donor or a reader but hopefully you aren’t there because of a pressing injury at the time.

Q: Do you recommend ANY devices during the Newbie Phase?
A: Yes. A space heater. One that will heat the area you are in to a comfortably high temperature of around 75 degrees Fahrenheit. It is incredibly difficult, if not impossible to have a good routine in a cold room with cold hands. Heating the room is the best solution to this and I would highly recommend it. Plus, they aren’t typically expensive and are useful outside of PE and can be sold or given to a friend if you decide PE isn’t for you.

I learned about how heat was important one winter. The house wouldn’t get above 68 degrees, which isn’t cold but isn’t comfortable to be nude and handling your penis for an hour or more at a time. I ended up waiting until the season broke to continue PE. A real drag.

Newbies and Expectations- Cuz I been there, I know what this is like
Q: How often should we measure to check our progress?
A: Not a terrible amount. The ruler is one of the hardest parts of PE to overcome. To some it is the enemy. To some it is inspiration. However, to check your size daily is a bad habit because it is impossible to track gains every single day. If you space your measurement times you have a greater chance to see gains. If you are asking thoughtfulgold, I subscribe to every 4 to 6 weeks that I’ll actually measure my normal full erect size.

Q: When will I see gains?
A:I do not know. My crystal ball has been broken for some years now and if I had precognition mastered I’d probably be playing the lottery, not predicting a flowchart of your gains. *chuckles*

That said, I can’t know. Your body and mine are different. How you do your PE is indubitably different from how I did mine. This will make predicting gains impossible. However, if you’ve gone some months in “The Newbie Routine” with no gains, we can help you if you can tell us other things you’ve been experiencing, such as Erection Quality loss or Morning Wood frequency drops. Too many factors exist for anyone to make that prediction. We can just help you get there.

Some people gain much slower than others. These causes are not fully understood or even truly isolated as something we know a reason for. Some people will gain in 5 months what it will take 2 or 3 years for someone else to get. the key is diligence and safety. If you are truly paying attention to your Physiologic Indicators (PIs) to help growth! then you will keep them positive and stay on the path to gains. They will eventually come if you can listen to your penis and keep safe and consistent in your routine. You just have to keep the faith.

Q: Isn’t there a faster way? Surely after all this time you’ve found something effective for quick gains?
A: NO. Rushing the process is how you get hurt. There is no magical method. No “Holy Grail” device or technique. Just NO.

Newbies and Penis Enlargement Dangers- Cuz I ain’t your momma, but I care.
Q: What is “overtraining”?
A: Long story short, you doin’ too much. If you tell me your routine and halfway through reading it I stop to check a text message, your routine is probably too long. If you need additional pages to write your routine down, it may be too long. If you have a period during your routine where your nanites have to rebuild your penis, you probably are overtraining.

A more detailed look at overtraining is in essence when you scale your routine up faster than your penis is willing to accommodate you. An example, and substitute your exercise or device regiment of choice here, is if you do 100 jelqs a session. If you double that to 200 and notice weaker erections the following day, you are probably pushing it. If you triple it and see no morning wood or erections at all that day, you’ve overdone it. Overtraining is a lot of subjective, or how you as the end user will see it, point of view. I can only translate what you describe to me using my experience and my personal viewpoints. Overtraining is typically minor. Some guys don’t mind mild EQ drops after a hard workout day. I personally do. It is when you ignore a series of minor signs that things can become a more serious issue.

That said, if you experience total dysfunction like a long term loss of erections, painful erections or tingling, nerve damage, bleeding, skin discoloration, broken skin, dryness or sensitivity and pain that is serious and extended and other obvious signs of injury you not only have overtrained, you may need a doctor if symptoms persist. There are people who have trained through this.
This is not recommended. Stop all PE. Seek immediate guidance and medical attention.

Q: Can I sleep wearing my device?
A: NO. Not only is this answer NO but even in advanced stages I would recommend against this. Any device that exerts ANY level of force is simply not safe to wear while unconscious. You may experience injury and not wake to remedy the issue. This question is commonly posed to the wearing of a traction style extender like Size Genetics/X4 Labs/JES Extender/Male Edge/etc. and All Day Stretchers like the Xsleeve/Phallosan/etc. The answer is no. Wear those during your waking hours, even while doing things, but not when inattention can bring injury.

Additionally, your sleep cycle is when your body does its maintenance. Recovery from all the PE that you do is important during your sleep cycle. Give your body that time to repair itself. You can do PE tomorrow.

Q: My Penis Enlargement Rolemodel (insert some guru’s name here with crazy gains), he does this routine so I want to try it! How can I get to where he is doing this routine?
A: Honestly, that seems like a match made in Heaven for disaster. A lot of the routines you’ll see some veterans do are not safe for Newbies. Either they focus too much on intensity or duration or both. Most of this is simply going to have no positive effect for you at this point in your PE career. Also, remember that this routine they customized for themselves. To face PE challenges that they’ve run into. Where you are, you likely do not have to resort to those sort of methods yet.

I remember a guy who was hanging 25lbs for 25 minute sets like 6 times a day 4 days a week. When I tried hanging period, after about 14lbs I was not only done, I couldn’t hang for more than 3 sets of 10 minutes. The hanger was giving me problems and honestly, the turtling effect combined with my small flaccid size at that time, I couldn’t really properly attach the hanger. So it slipped off, I got hurt and I quit hanging for good.

I remind people that the best theory, that I myself practice and will practice until I retire from PE, is simple.

I use the least amount of force required for me to see additional gains. This reduces my injury risk and leaves more options open for me in the future when this method needs adjustment.

Q: My erections are getting weaker, what can I do?
My size seems to be going down, what are my options?
Why am I not having morning wood?
It seems like gains have stopped even though I’m not getting negative feedback from my penis, what’s wrong?

A: I would take a break from PE. All of these things have similar causes, usually a lack of rest. Or an injury that you may not be aware of. Or over-conditioning. Take a week or two, maybe a month off. PE will be here when you get back. Your health is more important and there is no reason to train to regain what you can get back with rest and recovery. Just because it doesn’t feel like it hurts doesn’t mean it isn’t doing you harm. If your body is telling you that something is bothering it, especially with that negative feedback, you need to listen to it. You only have one penis and it will tell you all about what you’re doing to it if it isn’t going well.

A very common danger for Newbies is the feeling that they can’t take a break from PE. That they have to get results now. I have been there and it has led to more foolish purchases and foolish routines than I can even recall. Do not fall into that trap of obsession or addiction with PE. It becomes hard to control and easy to get hurt. You can always wait till tomorrow. You have the knowledge and the power.

Tips and Tricks for the Sharp Newbie- …tips are good. No snark needed for that.
1. Do not be afraid to ask for help.- Even if it is to send your role model a Personal Message. If he doesn’t answer, oh well. Just make the effort. You may make a friend and gain good knowledge at the same time.
2. In your research, try to keep an open mind.- You will learn something different than what you first found in your research, it will probably be of use to you. But you have to keep your mind ready to accept new things.
3. Keep a paper journal of your PE routines.- Write down exactly what you did in each of your sets. Doesn’t matter if the numbers or times are odd. Just keep track of what it is you’ve done so you can know what it is you are capable of when you want to scale a routine up or down. You won’t always be able to get online. You may need to reference what you’ve done, how long ago, when and why. I recommend a 5-Star Notebook because they have plastic front covers and extra thick back covers so they take a beating and last a long time.
4. Try to only implement one PE theory or routine type at a time.- Some of us have vastly differing ideas on how to use equipment or manual exercises. Some of which will not mesh together. An example is my slow, steady, rest-oriented style versus some of the more aggressive high intensity, low duration types of routines.
5. Masturbate less.- It helps your gains come faster and stay longer. It will reduce the amount of PE you have to do to reach your goals.
6. Keep the faith. - There is no reward for being discouraged and quitting. No consolation in walking away. If you really want something, be it a Penis Enlargement goal or something else, you have to go after it no matter how hard it is or how long it takes. If it is what you want, you have to stick with it and you can’t do that without keeping the faith and pushing onward. This, I found from experience.

And…that wraps up what I would tell a Newbie. I mean, take what you will from that and add comments below. If I had access to even 1/4 of this information i don’t know where I’d be now. Hopefully it saves you time and effort, too.

Good luck!

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Thunders place 15th Anniversary

Posted by: capernicus1, 08-22-2016 at 10:36 AM - 52 comments

Today we celebrate 15 years as the best non commercial PE site on the web.
That’s 15 years worth of collective knowledge, experience, discussion, friendship, support, improved sex lives and inches gained !

What makes a site like this ?
You, the members, without you there is no forum so get involved.
Reading is great but posting is what makes the whole thing work and being involved can be rewarding in all sorts of ways.

If you want to know something search then ask.
If you to talk about something start a thread.
Share your experiences.
Join in conversations and make friends.
Put your ideas out there even if you think they seem a bit crazy.
If you see room for improvement tell us.

A forum is only as alive and relevant as the people posting in it.

There are also behind the scenes changes going on with a new admin team taking over as the old team retire so please cut us some slack as we find our feet.
Long term we hope to continue to move forward and keep improving the site and in the short term maintain business as usual.

A huge thank you to everyone who has contributed over the years and to everyone who continues to do so.

The new Admin team:
Gavilan, Peaveyspecial, ErnieBanks and Lenny.

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Average Gains and Starting Measurements

Posted by: juiice, 02-26-2016 at 06:56 AM - 93 comments

Girth Gain Distribution

I have decided to run through the data gathered here at Thunder’s Place to see just what can be expected from our hard earned science experiments here. Many members ask for estimates of what they can expect to gain. My goal was to crunch the data and see just what these numbers may be. Additionally, I went through the numbers to find the average starting statistics here at Thunder’s Place, just to see how they stacked up against the studies done around the world.

First let’s begin with the assumptions I made in order to cut down the false statistics found here on the website.


  • Length Statistics over 11 inches were discarded as this size is an extreme outlier
  • Girth Statistics over 8.5 inches were discarded for the same reason
  • Length Statistics under 2 inches were discarded
  • Girth Statistics under 2 inches were discarded
  • Length Gains of over 4 inches were discarded as there has not been anyone here who has documented such an extraordinary gain
  • Girth Gains of over 3 inches were discarded for the same reason
  • Length Decreases over 1 inch were discarded due to the likelihood that these are false statistics
  • Girth Decreases over 1 inch were discarded for the same reason
  • Members who created a single entry were discarded when calculating gains and rates of gains, but were included in the starting statistics

I can assure each of you that those statistics that fall above and below the assumptions made above are a very small portion of the overall sample size, and can be assumed to have a negligible effect on the resulting statistics after their removal.

Statistics were calculated for two groups. A group of only gainers, and a group that contained everyone within the reasonable range of statistics. In addition to these two groups, statistics for inches and centimeters are provided.

Resulting Statistics can be found below:

Average Starting Length: 6.3582 in - 16.1499 cm
Standard Deviation: 0.8203 in - 2.0836 cm
Average Starting Girth: 5.0179 in - 12.7455 cm
Standard Deviation: 0.5427 in - 1.3786 cm

Starting Statistics in Inches

Starting Statistics in Centimetres

The first thing that stands out to me when examining the data, is the clear tendency towards rounding to the nearest quarter/half/whole inch that comes with self-reported statistics. The tendency to round can mess with the accuracy of statistics, but it is assumed here that the rounding is reasonable and not excessive. The same quarter/half/whole inch grid can be seen on the centimeter graph as well. The scatter plots also indicate that the vast majority of users fall between 5 and 7 inches starting length (approx. 13.5 to 18.5 centimeters) and between 4.5 and 5.5 inches of girth (approx. 11.5 to 14 cm). The is confirmed by the averages listed above. Additionally, below the distribution of starting statistics can be seen in an easier to read format. The X axes of each graph are in the units listed in the graph title, while the Y axes are number of users falling into each category.

Starting Statistic Distribution

Average Overall Length Gain: 0.6384 in - 1.6216 cm
Standard Deviation: 0.5367 in - 1.3632 cm
Average Overall Girth Gain: 0.2854 in - 0.7248 cm
Standard Deviation: 0.3509 in - 0.8914 cm

Average Length Gain of Gainers: 0.7350 in - 1.8670 cm
Standard Deviation: 0.5234 in - 1.3296 cm
Average Girth Gain of Gainers: 0.4057 in - 1.0305 cm
Standard Deviation: 0.3333 in - 0.8465 cm

Gain Statistics in Inches

Gain Statistics in Centimetres

The above two graphs show the distribution of length and girth gains for all members who fell within the reasonable statistics range. As is quite apparent, the majority of gains occurred between 0 and 1 inch of BP Length (approx. 0 and 2.5 cm) and between 0 and 0.5 inches of Mid Shaft Girth (approx. 0 and 1 cm). We can again see the tendency to round gains towards the nearest quarter/half/whole inch amongst users, as again the gains statistics line up nicely along the grid lines. We can see the distribution of the gains statistics appears in the shape of a comet, with the majority of data point appearing close to the origin at 0 gains in either dimension, and the data points becoming more sparse as they move away from the origin, especially in the positive direction of both axes.
Something to notice about those who lost size in a penis dimension: these users are in the minority of the statistics by a wide margin. Additionally, no member reported losing both length and girth, and those that lost in one dimension commonly gained in the other dimension. Below the distribution of gains can be seen. These distributions show the distribution of those who gained, and does not include the small portion of users who reported negative gains.

Gain Distribution

Percentage of Users who Gained Length: 89.60%
Percentage of Users who Gained Girth: 77.12%

Now what do all of these numbers mean? The standard deviation of each average presented above show how likely an individual is to deviate from the statistical average. The way the standard deviation works is as such: 68% of users were within 1 standard deviation of the indicated measurement, 95% of them were within 2 standard deviations, and 99.7% of them were within 3 standard deviations of the average.
We can also see that when including decreases in size between first and last measurements, the standard deviation for gains is greater than the average gain. This means that Thunder’s Place gain statistics are highly erratic, ie. they vary greatly. However, when considering only those who experienced gains, the standard deviations, as expected, fall below the value of the average gain. Despite this, they still remain a significant percentage of the average gain, indicating a flatter bell curve distribution of gains. This means that while a good portion of users can expect gains near that average number, the gains of each user will obviously vary widely from individual to individual.

What about the effect your starting size has on your ability to gain? Below are four graphs that show the distribution between a starting dimension of each member, and the gains experienced by that member in the corresponding dimension. This was done in both inches and centimeters, as usual.

Length Gain against Initial Length in Inches
Girth Gain against Initial Girth in Inches
Length Gain against Initial Length in Centimetres
Girth Gain against Initial Girth in Centimetres

The above four graphs reveal some interesting trends of growth here at Thunder’s Place. Commonly it is thought that a smaller starting size allows for greater gains, and this can be seen easily on the length graphs. These graphs exhibit a clearly triangular shape, indicating that greater gains were experienced by those who started on the lower end of sizes. As one moves rightward across the x-axis of starting size, it can be seen that the BPEL length gains drop off. However, a different trend is seen in the girth department. The decreasing triangle clearly seen in the length graphs is much less visible in the girth graphs. In fact, these girth graphs exhibit a much flatter shape overall. For the most part it appears that no matter the starting size, a 0.5 inch gain in girth (approx. 1.3 centimeters) is reasonable for members. There is a small trend towards smaller starting girths experiencing greater girth gains, but it is much less apparent than in the length gain graphs.

A positive result of the study reveals that a very high proportion of the users here at Thunder’s Place report positive gains. I think we may be onto something here at Thunder’s :shrug:

Summaries of the averages of starting stats, gain stats, and percentage of users who gained can all be found below in easier to read tables as attachments.

Hopefully you all find this helpful!

-Statistics Compiled on the 25th of February, 2016-

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Pour ceux qui débutent dans le PE.
04-11-2019 07:59 AM
by dj8cut
Articles particulièrement intéressants
02-01-2019 04:08 PM
by Neworld
Prévenir et guérir les problèmes sexuels.
02-23-2019 01:42 PM
by Stph75
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Anything except English, Español, Français or Italiano.
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If it's about penis enlargement, post it here.
Today 02:34 PM
by melomel
Speak about anything in your own language. This isn't for English threads.
11-23-2018 08:18 PM
by Impressed
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