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I have decided to run through the data gathered here at Thunder’s Place to see just what can be expected from our hard earned science experiments here. Many members ask for estimates of what they can expect to gain. My goal was to crunch the data and see just what these numbers may be. Additionally, I went through the numbers to find the average starting statistics here at Thunder’s Place, just to see how they stacked up against the studies done around the world.
First let’s begin with the assumptions I made in order to cut down the false statistics found here on the website.
Statistics were calculated for two groups. A group of only gainers, and a group that contained everyone within the reasonable range of statistics. In addition to these two groups, statistics for inches and centimeters are provided.
Resulting Statistics can be found below:
The first thing that stands out to me when examining the data, is the clear tendency towards rounding to the nearest quarter/half/whole inch that comes with self-reported statistics. The tendency to round can mess with the accuracy of statistics, but it is assumed here that the rounding is reasonable and not excessive. The same quarter/half/whole inch grid can be seen on the centimeter graph as well. The scatter plots also indicate that the vast majority of users fall between 5 and 7 inches starting length (approx. 13.5 to 18.5 centimeters) and between 4.5 and 5.5 inches of girth (approx. 11.5 to 14 cm). The is confirmed by the averages listed above. Additionally, below the distribution of starting statistics can be seen in an easier to read format. The X axes of each graph are in the units listed in the graph title, while the Y axes are number of users falling into each category.
Average Length Gain of Gainers: 0.7350 in - 1.8670 cm
Standard Deviation: 0.5234 in - 1.3296 cm
Average Girth Gain of Gainers: 0.4057 in - 1.0305 cm
Standard Deviation: 0.3333 in - 0.8465 cm
The above two graphs show the distribution of length and girth gains for all members who fell within the reasonable statistics range. As is quite apparent, the majority of gains occurred between 0 and 1 inch of BP Length (approx. 0 and 2.5 cm) and between 0 and 0.5 inches of Mid Shaft Girth (approx. 0 and 1 cm). We can again see the tendency to round gains towards the nearest quarter/half/whole inch amongst users, as again the gains statistics line up nicely along the grid lines. We can see the distribution of the gains statistics appears in the shape of a comet, with the majority of data point appearing close to the origin at 0 gains in either dimension, and the data points becoming more sparse as they move away from the origin, especially in the positive direction of both axes.
Something to notice about those who lost size in a penis dimension: these users are in the minority of the statistics by a wide margin. Additionally, no member reported losing both length and girth, and those that lost in one dimension commonly gained in the other dimension. Below the distribution of gains can be seen. These distributions show the distribution of those who gained, and does not include the small portion of users who reported negative gains.
Now what do all of these numbers mean? The standard deviation of each average presented above show how likely an individual is to deviate from the statistical average. The way the standard deviation works is as such: 68% of users were within 1 standard deviation of the indicated measurement, 95% of them were within 2 standard deviations, and 99.7% of them were within 3 standard deviations of the average.
We can also see that when including decreases in size between first and last measurements, the standard deviation for gains is greater than the average gain. This means that Thunder’s Place gain statistics are highly erratic, ie. they vary greatly. However, when considering only those who experienced gains, the standard deviations, as expected, fall below the value of the average gain. Despite this, they still remain a significant percentage of the average gain, indicating a flatter bell curve distribution of gains. This means that while a good portion of users can expect gains near that average number, the gains of each user will obviously vary widely from individual to individual.
What about the effect your starting size has on your ability to gain? Below are four graphs that show the distribution between a starting dimension of each member, and the gains experienced by that member in the corresponding dimension. This was done in both inches and centimeters, as usual.
The above four graphs reveal some interesting trends of growth here at Thunder’s Place. Commonly it is thought that a smaller starting size allows for greater gains, and this can be seen easily on the length graphs. These graphs exhibit a clearly triangular shape, indicating that greater gains were experienced by those who started on the lower end of sizes. As one moves rightward across the x-axis of starting size, it can be seen that the BPEL length gains drop off. However, a different trend is seen in the girth department. The decreasing triangle clearly seen in the length graphs is much less visible in the girth graphs. In fact, these girth graphs exhibit a much flatter shape overall. For the most part it appears that no matter the starting size, a 0.5 inch gain in girth (approx. 1.3 centimeters) is reasonable for members. There is a small trend towards smaller starting girths experiencing greater girth gains, but it is much less apparent than in the length gain graphs.
A positive result of the study reveals that a very high proportion of the users here at Thunder’s Place report positive gains. I think we may be onto something here at Thunder’s :shrug:
Summaries of the averages of starting stats, gain stats, and percentage of users who gained can all be found below in easier to read tables as attachments.
Hopefully you all find this helpful!
-Statistics Compiled on the 25th of February, 2016-
It’s sometimes hard to figure out what a lawyer is trying to say, when they are writing a letter. Very kindly, Ken White of Popehat has taken the time to write a rather eloquent summary of some of the legal points.
I would encourage you to share this URL in a responsible manner: places it would appreciated, rather than linking this thread. It might help us retain some pro bono legal representation in California. We are a small non-profit community, getting into a legal spat with Dr. Elist, is beyond our means.
<edit>David Casey and Brian Lynch of Lynch Legal Consulting offered to help us out within about 5 minutes of Ken’s posts, so we owe them a lot of thanks. </edit>
The rest of this thread is asking for help, if you can provide it.
The letter makes several demands:
- you immediately remove the negative content posted by your member “txhog”, together with all related threads and postings, from the Website
- thundersplace.org immediately cease and desist from any further derogatory postings of any kind about Dr. Elist,
- you immediately provide us with the name and contact information of the user posting such disparaging comments, and
- you post an announcement in a conspicuous place on the Website acknowledging that the defamatory statements have been removed due to your inability to verify their accuracy.
It is a conundrum. It asks us to divulge information which we don’t have and apologise for the opinions of a member.
If you can help us with pro bono legal work in California either contact us or (especially if you need plausible deniability) Ken White of popehat. His contact details are on his site.
The full letter is on the popehat site.
One of the inevitable side-effects of PE is darkening or discolouration of the penis. But it doesn’t have to be that way!
There are posts scattered around Thunder’s Place on the ‘firegoat roll’ but no definitive thread, so here it is; the best and simplest way to avoid discolouration in the first place, or to slowly reverse it if you already have it. It is of course better not to let it build up in the first place!
How to do a firegoat roll:
Imagine you’ve just washed your hands and are using one of those hot air hand dryers; you rub your hands together with the fingers parallel to each other, at the same sort of speed you would count to 10 at. Try counting to 10 while rubbing your palms together now!
Now place your penis between your palms and do the same. As a starting point for pressure when doing the firegoat roll, imagine rolling a piece of dough or pastry into a cylinder; you don’t want to roll too fast or slow, and you certainly don’t want to squash the dough flat or make no impression on it at all. Use that as a starting point and vary speed and force around it. Different levels of erection will require different speeds and force. You’ll quickly get a feel for the right speed and pressure with a bit of practice.
I find it’s best to do a few jelqs first and then do firegoat rolls at around 50% erection - 40-60% is good. It’s possible to get results at any erection level from flaccid to about 75%. Although you can do them flaccid, they work better with some erection and after some jelqs first. I’m keeping it simple so won’t explain why the jelqs help, but they do.
How far round should you rotate your penis?
You will automatically do it the right amount, trust me. The more you twist the harder it is to twist further. And if it’s fairly flaccid and you are going at a sensible speed, you won’t do any damage anyway. You are not trying to start a fire with it!
How long should you do it for?
Keep going until discolouration disappears. Some guys do it for 30 seconds and it’s enough. Some guys do it for 3-5 minutes. If you prefer you can do 30 seconds, wait a few seconds then do another 30 seconds and repeat as necessary. If you’ve had a heavy session, there may still be a bit of redness that doesn’t completely go. If you get to a point where you are not making further improvement, that’s the time to stop. You can always do a few quick flaccid ones throughout the day when you go for a pee.
If you have existing discolouration you are trying to get rid of, you can do a minute or two of jelqs then some rolls several times a day. It may take a while, but most people get results from them. To get rid of existing discolouration, the jelqs before rolling become much more important.
Post PE discolouration is primarily a histologic change caused by vasopermeability under pressure in the case of fairly light sustained PE, or in more ‘aggressive’ PE, by focal hemorrhage in the upper dermis (red spots), and (simple version) the firegoat roll works by manually squeezing the congested blood etc. out of the tissues. The sooner the waste is removed the sooner fresh nutrients can be delivered to the tissue to aid in repair, so in fact the firegoat roll does much more than just help with discoloration
Although it bears my name, I make no claim to inventing the firegoat roll – I’m sure lots of guys were doing it long before I popularised it, but no one was talking about it, or specifically the fact that it combats discolouration.
It’s been around a long time now and the name gets used on various other PE sites
Everyone who is concerned about discolouration can quickly and easily benefit from it. Whether you are a newbie or a vet, it can be added to any routine.
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