Thunder's Place

The big penis and mens' sexual health source, increasing penis size around the world.

Gain .5 inch/month with no excersizes

Jones,

>Sure, which study interests you, regarding what fact?<

Every study/fact from now on to keep this constructive.

SS4

Jones,

>I cant, they are part of my subsciption service to ScienceDirect. They are PDFs, I cant copy and paste. You will have to go to a library, sorry.<

Post the references so members here who want to pay per view the PDF or already have a subscription can download them, as Thunder suggested and you agreed to do several pages back in this thread.


Thunder's Place: increasing penis size one dick at a time.

CONCLUSIONS: Testosterone influences penile growth, possibly as a result of extracellular stromal expansion. The number of androgen receptor positive cells in the human fetal penis did not change among the castrate, normal and super testosterone hosts. These experiments support the hypothesis that penile growth cessation is mediated by mechanisms other than down regulation of the androgen receptor

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/…2&dopt=Abstract
The effect of testosterone on androgen receptors and human penile growth.
J Urol. 1997 Sep;158(3 Pt 2):1113-8.
PMID: 9258152 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Relevance: Evidence for safety and efiacacy


Mr jones and me..... Gonna be big stars

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/…4&dopt=Abstract

Relevance: Several peoplehave asked if topical androgens have ever been used on adults. In this study, they tried to treat ED. ~30 percent sucess rate.

Pilot study of the transdermal application of testosterone gel to the penile skin for the treatment of hypogonadotropic men with erectile dysfunction


Mr jones and me..... Gonna be big stars

Penile growth: topical versus systemic testosterone therapy in rats.
J Endocrinol. 1977 Apr;73(1):189-90. No abstract available.
PMID: 858985 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

When I saw the title, I thought, PERFECT! This will answer the question if local action really does exist. The abstract is gone, it is the only missing abstract of the some odd dozens of ones on transdermal testosterone that medline has.

Odd, dont you guys think?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/…5&dopt=Abstract


Mr jones and me..... Gonna be big stars

Great stuff. Is that everything you are referencing?

I’m sure that a few people here will have access to these.


Thunder's Place: increasing penis size one dick at a time.

Jones

If your going to post a link can it be someting that all of us can read, or could you cut and paste it please.

Dino


I haven't failed, I've found 10,000 ways that don't work. Thomas Edison (1847-1931)

Quote
Originally posted by Jones8315
CONCLUSIONS: Testosterone influences penile growth, possibly as a result of extracellular stromal expansion. The number of androgen receptor positive cells in the human fetal penis did not change among the castrate, normal and super testosterone hosts. These experiments support the hypothesis that penile growth cessation is mediated by mechanisms other than down regulation of the androgen receptor

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/…2&dopt=Abstract
The effect of testosterone on androgen receptors and human penile growth.
J Urol. 1997 Sep;158(3 Pt 2):1113-8.
PMID: 9258152 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Relevance: Evidence for safety and efiacacy

Good study.

But the point of the study shows that penis size in the normal rats wasn’t any different than in the rats that had been injected with the testosterone pellets.

To quote from the study:

“Mean length of the super testosterone specimens (7.3 +/- 2.3 mm.) was not significantly greater than that of normal specimens (p = 0.797).”

and

“Supraphysiological doses of testosterone did not change the histology compared to controls. “

So even though the 5 rats had 50mg of test prop ( an enormous amount for anything that size…) introduced into their system, the size of their penises wasn’t really any different than the rats that didn’t have any testosterone added.

If anything, this studys shows that adding testoserone to ones system will not effect penise size.

Here’s the study’s abstact for those without access.

The effect of testosterone on androgen receptors and human penile growth.

Baskin LS, Sutherland RS, DiSandro MJ, Hayward SW, Lipschutz J, Cunha GR.

Department of Urology, University of California San Francisco Children’s Medical Center, USA.

PURPOSE: Recent rat studies suggest that early exposure to exogenous testosterone accelerates the loss of androgen receptors and compromises eventual penile length. In humans we hypothesize that down regulation of the androgen receptor is not the mechanism that stops penile growth. To test this hypothesis we investigated the effects of androgen deprivation and supplementation on the developing human penis. MATERIALS AND METHODS: A total of 15 normal human fetal penises at 7 to 19 weeks of gestation (mean plus or minus standard deviation 12 +/- 4.5) was divided in half sagittally. Specimens were grafted beneath the renal capsule of male athymic nude mice or nude rats. Three groups of host animals were prepared, including 10 with no testosterone that were castrated at grafting, 15 with testosterone and 5 with super testosterone in which 50 mg. testosterone propionate pellets were implanted subcutaneously at grafting. Each fetal penile specimen was its own control, since half was implanted into an intact animal and the other into a castrated or super testosterone host. Six weeks after grafting the specimens were analyzed for gross size (length), histology and expression of androgen receptors. RESULTS: All human fetal penile specimens grew from the nadir size and appeared as white exophytic growths on the surface of the host kidneys. Normal grafts were larger than castrate specimens (mean 6.9 +/- 2.1 versus 3.9 +/- 2.1 mm., p = 0.014). Mean length of the super testosterone specimens (7.3 +/- 2.3 mm.) was not significantly greater than that of normal specimens (p = 0.797). Histological analysis revealed that all specimens were composed of viable penile tissue. Cellular density of the castrate penises was approximately 2 times greater than that of the normal and super testosterone specimens (40.6 +/- 5.9 versus 25.1 +/- 2.8 cells per cm.2, p > 0.001), as calculated on enlarged micrographs. Supraphysiological doses of testosterone did not change the histology compared to controls. Immunohistochemical localization revealed androgen receptors expressed throughout the corporeal bodies, surrounding stroma and penile skin with intracellular localization to nucleus. The mean proportion of cells expressing androgen receptors was higher in the castrate (29.4 +/- 5.2 cells per cm.2) than in the normal (24.0 +/- 3.7) and super testosterone (24.7 +/- 4.5) grafts (p = 0.005). However, in regard to growth there was no change in the proportion of androgen receptor positive cells among the groups. CONCLUSIONS: Testosterone influences penile growth, possibly as a result of extracellular stromal expansion. The number of androgen receptor positive cells in the human fetal penis did not change among the castrate, normal and super testosterone hosts. These experiments support the hypothesis that penile growth cessation is mediated by mechanisms other than down regulation of the androgen receptor. Furthermore, these data support the hypothesis that early administration of androgen to prepubertal male individuals does not result in a shorter phallus in adulthood.

PMID: 9258152 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Regarding hair fallout and test shutdown…

I think the statement by north which I quoted was just how he interpreted the information so far, and he was asking for clarity

Bingo, I was just attempting to summarize your views (albeit in a somewaht crude fashion).

And I have to say, I think your position encourages me to give it a whirl.

Risks appear to be minimal, and if it works…

N.

(Ps Perhaps this is the real topic for me, “Are there any health risks?” If not, I’ll gladly give it a try and find out for myself if it works. I think my bottle arrives today, anyway…)


Keep doin' what your doin' ...

And you'll keep getting what ya got.

Quote
Originally posted by Jones8315
Penile growth: topical versus systemic testosterone therapy in rats.
J Endocrinol. 1977 Apr;73(1):189-90. No abstract available.
PMID: 858985 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

When I saw the title, I thought, PERFECT! This will answer the question if local action really does exist. The abstract is gone, it is the only missing abstract of the some odd dozens of ones on transdermal testosterone that medline has.

Odd, dont you guys think?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/…5&dopt=Abstract

Unfortunately no, it’s pretty common with PubMed. You can buy the full studies but it’s pretty expensive. I’ve run into this a number of times it always makes me mad.

If you only have access to abstracts (ie, PubMed), here’s another tip for finding full-length papers online.

Take the following, for example:

Thompson, J.L., Butterfield, G.E., Gylfadottir, U.K., Yesavage, J., Marcus, R., Hintz, R.L., Pearman, A., & Hoffman, A.R. (1998). Effects of human growth hormone, insulin-like growth factor I, and diet and exercise on body composition of obese postmenopausal women. Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism, 83(5), 1477-84.

Go straight to Yahoo or Google and search for a part of the exact title. In this case, search for something like “diet and exercise on body composition of obese postmenopausal women”

You’ll end up finding either the full-text, or someone else’s article referencing it. Either way, you’re a step further than you’d be with just an abstract.

Here are some more links to help people in researching:

Highwire (awesome site…)

http://highwire.stanford.edu/lists/freeart.dtl

http://www.sciencekomm.at/advice/full-text.html

http://www.scirus.com/

http://www.ars-grin.gov/duke/

http://www.jci.org

http://www.genome.ad.jp/kegg/metabolism.html

“If anything, this studys shows that adding testoserone to ones system will not effect penise size”
You are correct.
However, as I have stated before, an increase in serum testosterone is not relevant. Growth may be caused locally because of exposure to the skin on the penis, and the subsequent diffusion.

“testosterone propionate pellets were implanted subcutaneously at graft”
If instead they did a study w/ topical T on the penis, then we would know. That study will take time to find, as stated above.


Mr jones and me..... Gonna be big stars

Quote
Originally posted by Jones8315
“If anything, this studys shows that adding testoserone to ones system will not effect penise size”
You are correct.
However, as I have stated before, an increase in serum testosterone is not relevant. Growth may be caused locally because of exposure to the skin on the penis, and the subsequent diffusion.

“testosterone propionate pellets were implanted subcutaneously at graft”
If instead they did a study w/ topical T on the penis, then we would know. That study will take time to find, as stated above.

Ok,

I’m trying to keep this positive and not muddy up the waters, but if the study is irrelevant, why post it?

So, I guess I would REALLY love to see anything that can substantiate your claims that “Growth may be caused locally because of exposure to the skin on the penis, and the subsequent diffusion. “

Oh, by the way. I actually agree with you. I do think that topical androgen applications can indeed produce penile growth in post-pubescent males.

I’ve just been disagreeing with the way you’re going about it.

I think we can put some ideas together though and come up with something.

“Relevance: Evidence for safety and efiacacy”

I said that because the study showed that high levels of androgens didnt down regulate receptors, and becuase it prooves testosterone influences penile growth. Some people have previosly disagreed with me on that. Im not only talking to you, ya know. But..
“So, I guess I would REALLY love to see anything that can substantiate your claims that ” Like i said, be patient. Ill find that study, it is somewhere on campus.


Mr jones and me..... Gonna be big stars

“I think we can put some ideas together though and come up with something.” I agree. We need to know if DHT or a DHT derivitive is more powerful. We know atleast that DHT is better then TEST.


Mr jones and me..... Gonna be big stars

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