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Low LOTter's any success?

Originally Posted by bluray
… but at the same time the tunica is also being stressed and also stretched…

No it is not. The outer tunica is not being stressed. It is very difficult to provide enough stress to the tunica to fatigue it OTS, SO, and RSDT fulcrum where those stretches are specifically designed to stress the tunica.

If by chance the tunica was also being stressed by the ligs, it would be very minimal, not nearly enough to fatigue and deform it. Without fatigue, no gains.

I still believe that the outer tunica is not affected by BTC and that the Inner tunica is only pulled out, not stretched or stressed.

It is not until we stretch OTS, SO, RSDT fulcrum that we realize gains from stressing the tunica.


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Originally Posted by bluray
“Releasing the ligament frees more of the penis to be stretched”

So this is another good reason to make sure your ligaments have been lowered all the way isn’t it?

It is the only reason, it is LOT theory.


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Originally Posted by bluray
Ok let me ask this, If I was wanting to decondition my ligs would hanging at a high angle only for a period allow them to decondition?

Yes or just not hanging at all. They would begin to return to their normal state when unstressed. Hanging at a high angle does not stretch/stress ligs, therefore they would continue to “decondition”.

There is little point in deconditioning your ligs unless you just can not add enough weight to stress them practically, if say it took 45 lbs to fatigue them. Then you may want to consider deconditioning.

One gains LOT, according to theory, as you stretch the exposed inner penis with higher angles (OTS, SO, SU, RSDT) because as you stretch the exposed inner penis some of the stretched tunica may begin to go beyond the skin exit point. Thus requiring more lig stretching to expose this newly gained tissue. As the tunica grows horizontally, the ligs will “pull” back more of the tunica behind the skin exit point. It is your job to lengthen the ligs to accomdate the newly gained tissue so that it resides outside the skin exit point vs. the behind it (where it remains unaffected by tunica stretching). Just as you stretch your skin to accommodate new growth you have to stretch your ligs as well. That is the theory, I believe.


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Originally Posted by Dicko7x5
I don’t deny that, but it doesn’t really answer my question. My point is if you expose more of the penis, it should affect both the flaccid and erect size. Like I illustrated with the example in my last post.


Originally Posted by ModestoMan
The difference is that flaccids point down. Exit points get pulled down when the ligs are cut, giving the appearance of flaccid gains. But erections point up. The erect penis pulls the exit point back up to where it was before, so no erect gains are measured.

The flaccid will point down, correct. I concur :) . Exit point will lower as well.

It may mearly give an appearance of flaccid gains if one did not have “more” penis to expose. Those with High LOTs, should have “more” penis to expose. If so, it is not mearly an appearance of gains, they are real gains.

However, the tunica did not extend, it’s just outside the skin exit point vs. behind it. Now it adds to one’s erect size where as before one could not use it.

So the tunica remains the same length as it did before surgery or BTC stretching but it now more or all of it resides outside the skin exit point. Thus contributing to erect gains.

What was once BPEL, is now EL.

You may not agree, but do I at least make sense?


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Originally Posted by Bugs Bunny

…….

It may mearly give an appearance of flaccid gains if one did not have “more” penis to expose. Those with High LOTs, should have “more” penis to expose. If so, it is not mearly an appearance of gains, they are real gains.

……….

Where are you getting this idea of ‘penis to expose’, if even the Docs who perform those surgeries (at least those who are honest) say it doesn’t happen?

Originally Posted by ModestoMan
The difference is that flaccids point down. Exit points get pulled down when the ligs are cut, giving the appearance of flaccid gains. But erections point up. The erect penis pulls the exit point back up to where it was before, so no erect gains are measured.


But what causes the erection to point up in the first place, isn’t this caused by the very ligaments pulling the penis up towards the pubic bone? If it isn’t the ligaments what’s causing the erect penis to point upwards against gravity and can’t this be stretch downwards as well?

That would be what I’m confused about, I don’t understand how and by what the exit point could be pulled back up when erect. I always imagined that the erection angle would be decreased, at least a bit, when cutting or lengthening the ligaments. If not, how would you lower it?

Not sure. Guess there is only one way to find out. Just need to try.

I’d say there is more information gathered from the members of this forum dealing with increasing erection size then that of the doctors you speak of.

Increasing penis size outside this and a select group of forums is considered taboo, not possible.


Breathe

Originally Posted by marinera

Where are you getting this idea of ‘penis to expose’, if even the Docs who perform those surgeries (at least those who are honest) say it doesn’t happen?

I think he’s talking about the change in flaccid length (over an inch) from the page you was talking about.

Originally Posted by Dicko7X5
But what causes the erection to point up in the first place, isn’t this caused by the very ligaments pulling the penis up towards the pubic bone? If it isn’t the ligaments what’s causing the erect penis to point upwards against gravity and can’t this be stretch downwards as well?

That would be what I’m confused about, I don’t understand how and by what the exit point could be pulled back up when erect. I always imagined that the erection angle would be decreased, at least a bit, when cutting or lengthening the ligaments. If not, how would you lower it?

I don’t think that is how it works. Now, I have limited experience with surgery other than what I’ve read here, but I’m pretty sure the docs don’t completely release the penis from the public symphysis. They leave a little bit of lig behind at the very bottom (subpubic arcuate ligament).

I believe most guys still have normal erection angles after surgery. The shaft is still anchored deep in the pelvis, and the shape of the tunica doesn’t change. It may take a stronger erection than before to get up to the same angle, but I think it still gets there. That said, I have heard of cases where some guys’ erections point straight down after surgery. Maybe those guys can measure a gain, but I think that’s a mighty big price to pay for a small gain on the ruler.


Enter your measurements in the PE Database.

Originally Posted by Dicko7X5

That would be what I’m confused about, I don’t understand how and by what the exit point could be pulled back up when erect. I always imagined that the erection angle would be decreased, at least a bit, when cutting or lengthening the ligaments. If not, how would you lower it?

It would not be pulled back up, Dino’s and Bib’s (I’m sure there is more to pull from) erection angles decreased along with their exit points. This is also mentioned in the LOT theory. I believe Bib’s original erection angle was straight up and now it points straight somewhere around 9 o’ clock.

See Saw Theory, somewhere around here. After the hanger exposes their inner penis, the exit point lowers and erection angle lowers, the penis only begins to pull back up once their is enough gained tissue in the tunica to stress the ligs again. The ligs will pull back on the newly gained tissue and the tunica will begin to flex upwards again (erection angle increases). Some of the tunica will be pulled back behind the exit point thus requiring more lig stretching BTC to expose your newly gained inner tunica and lower your LOT again.

It’s a constant process. One fatigues ligs to expose inner penis, then abandons stretching ligs, stretches tunica (SO,SU, OTS, RSDT), gains tissue from tunica stretching / lengthens tunica, stretches skin to accommadate, stretches ligs again once LOT begins increasing, continues stretching Tunica, stretches skin, etc etc.

However, one may be able to abandon BTC for a while but they should under no circumstances abandon tunica stretching (unless injury) when stretching BTC again.

Or you could just continue stretching BTC as a secondary angle thus preventing LOT to increase (which is fine in this case).

My two cents.


Breathe

Originally Posted by Dicko7X5

I think he’s talking about the change in flaccid length (over an inch) from the page you was talking about.

I don’t think so:

Originally Posted by Bugs Bunny

…………

So the tunica remains the same length as it did before surgery or BTC stretching but it now more or all of it resides outside the skin exit point. Thus contributing to erect gains.

What was once BPEL, is now EL.

…………..

post #94 of this thread

Ligs determine erection angle, suspend the penis. I’d hate to cut them. That sounds dangerous. Growing a bigger penis stresses and activates the ligs, they tug back more thus increasing erection angle if they are not stretched further. If one is looking to raise erection angle they simply would stretch the tunica without stretching the ligs.

However at a price, they would not benefit from the tunica that lies hidden behind the exit point.

Surgery is not required, and is dangerous. Could affect future gains in a negative light.

Once the ligs are stretched, and you have your 9 inch penis at a SO erection angle, the ligs if not stressed any further will begin to decondition and attempt to go back to their original size and state. The mass of your tunica will prevent them from doing so, or at least for a long long time. However that is only if the ligs are stretched. I can not imagine what a 9 inch penis would look like without stretched ligs. I guess a curved banana pointed upwards.

However this would mean that you probably have a tunica larger then 9 inches and if you stretched your ligs from that point (exposing that inner penis and lowering your LOT) you would probably have something like a 10 to 11 inch penis which would then erect at a 9 o’clock angle or slightly lower or higher.


Breathe

It’s an interesting topic. Some guys claims they lowered the entire area, exit point etc and made some good gains. On some guys photos you can see guy’s ligaments clearly poking out from the base when fully erect, they seem to have a very low exit point that’s not far from the actual bulb/root of the penis. And in even more interesting photos like ironaddicts you can see a clear difference at the base when length gains has been made, looks like the ligs is starting to show at the base as if the penis has been pulled out of the body.

Maybe I’m just seeing what I want but it seems something is going on at the base when gaining length on a lot of guys including myself. I’m not big gainer but I have gained some length and I experience the same thing, the base is different when erect, it’s a bit hollowed out at the base and I can see the ligs now. Isn’t hangers claiming more base girth when gaining length, and didn’t Bib talk about his penis being pulled down and the inner penis being exposed? I just have a feeling there’s more to this than we might think, and if true it would be a good thing for us :)

It means that if you don’t see ligs - that there is possibly an inch or more of undiscovered gains.

Originally Posted by marinera
I don’t think so:

post #94 of this thread

I do think so. That was exactly what I was referring to.

BPEL is now EL.

I guess that was too vague, out of context. Your inner penis may not be as large as the space between the skin exit point and the bone. So BPEL is now EL is not entirely accurate, I was trying to paint a picture.

More accurately some, if not all, of that BPEL is now contributing to EL.

Just forget the BPEL its not important here, bad example. That inch gained in the flaccid penis came from somewhere, and it does contribute to erection length.

Many members can stretch their flaccid farther then they can get erect, myself included. The penis has to increase pressure in order to utilize all of the tunica. How does one do this, I could not find any research except that one jelqs, clamps, uli thing, pumps, etc. Works on increasing pressure inside the penis, essentially.

So that patient gained an inch (inner penis now exposed) but say that patient does not realize erect gains, only flaccid. That is because the penis does not supply enough pressure to fully inflate the tunica. One must focus on ways that increase blood flow and pressure to the penis at this point. Thus increasing both length and as a sided benefit girth or vice versa.

Inner penis = Inner tunica = your tunica seperated figuratively by outer (outside the skin exit point) and inner (behind skin exit point).


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