Thunder's Place

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Low LOTter's any success?

Originally Posted by Bugs Bunny
Iron,

The surgery does not gurantee anything. If BTC does not contribute to your gains the surgery will not either.

$90 on a Bib starter would be safer and more beneficial to your gains and overall penis health then a $5,000 surgery.

Both the surgery and BTC stretching aim at the same goal, exposing more inner tunica by altering the ligs. One through a more drastic effect, cutting, and the other through a much safer practice, stretching.

Even if you did the surgery you would still be required to hang to gain anyway.

Regardless of either approach, one must have an inner tunica to expose to realize gains.

Those who do not should begin focusing on tunica stretching with OTS, SO, SU, and the best RSDT fulcrum.

Although I am not a moderator.

Thank you for those kind words :)

You are not gaining anything from BTC because you either A. Are not providing enough stress to fatigue the ligs. Or B. You have exposed your inner penis and need to get crackin on stretching the tunica.

I’d suggest you begin stretching SO, OTS, RSDT. If you need further information read the threads at the top of Bib’s forum on his website and his product guide.

You must approach this with a game plan and you must stick to it. Bib outlines a great plan and everything one needs to execute it.

The information here, hanging wise, is eratic. It is easy to get lost in so I highly recommend you take a look a Bib’s forum at bibhanger.com and his product guide.

He is extremely helpful, and patient.to an extent. He’s already covered a lot of this same information hundreds of times with new hangers. It’s getting a little monotonous for the guy. However, he does his best to remain patient. Most of the questions you will originally ask are in already in his forum and product guide. Check them out first!

Just stick to it, stop hanging BTC if it is not giving you gains and work on your tunica. That’s where it’s at.

Yeah if you see my pics, you will see I definitely pulled ligs out. I am registered at bibs forum and used to post a lot. I use the vac hanger, but I need to figure out an effective setup for upward angle hanging.It doesn’t stretch much over my shoulder because the rope cannot slide along a pulley =/

I have been doing straight out, but haven’t seen anything from it?

I came to think of a similar situation which illustrates the difference between a strictly measuring and visual increase versus a mass/volume increase of the penis. This shows you can have a increase in your measurements and visual penis size without any change in actual penis mass/volume.

When loosing weight and decreasing the fat pad you can have an FL and NBPEL increase (no BPEL/BPFSL) without actually enlarging the penis, you just make more of it visible (exposing more of it). It’s by this same concept of exposing more the penis without any increase in penis mass/volume that you might benefit from altering the ligaments.

I’d say in the iron’ pics one can’t see ‘ligs pulled out’; instead, the fundiform ligament has become thicker, due to the hanging stress and a lower bodyfat.

I’d say also the information on this site are more ‘democratic’ than ‘erratic’, if ones get what I mean. We don’t sell anything.

Originally Posted by Bugs Bunny
Eh, That smells funny doc.

Look you must of had ligs after the surgery. If not your penis whether erect or not would never suspend. I’m not sure what he did to you.

Bugs, honestly you don’t know what you are talking about. Everything you say is conjecture. Bring me a guy who has had the surgery and whose penis flops around, unsuspended, and then we’ll talk. My doc cut everything. I appreciate the devotion you have to your theories but they are greatly flawed…a Bib disciple you are. Data you lack.


Hog before: 6'' NBPEL; 5'' MSEG---->> Hog now: 7.3" NBPEL; 5 1/4" MSEG; 8.5 BPFSL

Sorry for the stupid question, but do they cut both the suspensory and fundiform ligaments in this kind of surgery?

Originally Posted by Bugs Bunny
No please, Abuse away. This is great ;)


Glad you’re enjoying it :) .

Originally Posted by Bugs
First, my Bib-ism is an interpretation by me of Bib’s research. Some of which he agreed with. They are my theory’s based on his and not absolutes.

I know that Bib has ideas and that he once conducted some polls here about LOT, but I wasn’t aware he had done any “research.” By his own admission, he is not a scientist or medical professional.

Originally Posted by Bugs
Modesto have you read any of his research or advice on his website. It would be great to start there, rather then here. Here you have members who provide interpretations, including yourself, of his research vs. straight from the horses mouth.

I’ve read loads of Bib’s posts here and on his Bibhanger site, although I haven’t paid serious attention to his ideas since about 2005, when I found my views to be unreconcilable with his.

Since I abandoned Bib’s ideas and started thinking for myself, I can no longer regard his word as the last one on PE. He’s got a lot of interesting ideas, but I don’t agree with many of them anymore.

As for “the horse’s mouth,” I assume that was no pun intended ;) . Honestly, though, there are many people with good ideas. I personally do not regard Bib as a particular guru.

Originally Posted by Bugs
Second, Shaft and Tunica are the same correct?

Sort of. Technically, the tunica is the sheath surrounding the shaft.

Originally Posted by Bugs
I do not believe that one gets gains from the ligs providing tension to the shaft, they get gains from pulling out their inner penis. However I will indulge.

From where I stand, it is I who am indulging you! The idea that the inner penis is a coiled snake waiting to spring out of men’s loins is a comforting fiction invented by Bib with no basis in anatomy, as far as I can tell.

Originally Posted by Bugs
The ligs only pull back on the shaft at angles above one’s LOT.

You mean below one’s LOT? Even so, only approximately.

Originally Posted by Bugs
So if a person were to have a low LOT where the ligs did not kick in and pull back on the shaft what would be the point in stretching them at lower angles, how would they stretch the tunica if they are not providing any resistance in the first place at a low angle.

Au contraire! With the ligs out of the way one would get a great shaft/tunica stretch from downward hanging. That would be ideal, since you get all the convenience of gravity while targeting the structure likely to give you real, actual gains, but which I mean increased size.

Out of time now. What were you trying to show with the pictures?


Enter your measurements in the PE Database.

The pictures show that A. there is tunica that resides behind the skin exit point and B. that it is much girthier then the outer tunica.

Hold on I will retort with a more in depth something rather :)


Breathe

Bib has conducted research. This theory did not just pop into his head after a few beers for mere entertainment.

I consider “polls” an essential part of research. Think Kinsey.

Though he may not be a medical professional he does hold a degree in the biology field. However neither of which is necessary to conduct “research” on your own.

The theory really is not that far fetched. No more so then your own.

Also, he provides A LOT more information to validate his theory than I have seen from either Modesto or Marinera.

My credibility is attacked not because of what I believe but because I believe in Bib.

Yes it is hard to find the appropriate steps, all of them, to start hanging here constructively. You have to dig and find information all over the place, some of which undermines other ideas. This is just my viewpoint. The most important hanging threads one should visit were in place by Bib himself here on this board, He’s added a lot more on his forum.

However, this forum provides a much larger sampling group and more people to accesss and discuss with. It’s great when approaching new ideas, that is if anyone bites.

Democratic? Look you can’t change anatomy.

It is what it is and regardless if congress disagrees it.

Disagreement may spawn new discovery, which does not change the anatomy but our perception of it, and I am welcoming it, viza vi the abuse.

However, attacking Bib’s and my own credibilty vs. attacking the theory seem to be the main focus of this thread.

Does your tunica fatigue when you hang straight down, or do your ligs fatigue. If one were to perform a RSDT fulcrum stretch or SO or SU or OTS I believe the sensation they feel would be much different the one they feel while hanging SD.

They would be able to tell how much more those stretches stress the tunica vs SD. In short they would discover that hanging SD does not really affect the tunica.

SD stresses the ligs. I said it may stress the tunica somewhat, though I do not believe this to be the case, but it would not be nearly enough to deform it/fatigue it. Unless you were hanging at abnormally high pressures.

Why hang SD when you can isolate the tunica with the four other stretches I mentioned. Gravity right, if only it was contributing to tunica stress as you say it is.

Bubba, Even Modesto agrees they must have left ligament behind. I’ll quote for you in a second. Ligaments suspend your penis, without them you could not suspend your penis. That isn’t Bib talking, that’s me master yoda :)

Marinera are you referring to the bib hanger. If so it costs money to make a bib hanger, Bib is not doing what he does for a profit. He only wants to offer his product to a small group of people, the people that exist on this forum and others, not to gain profit but to offer help.

He wants to offer a service to us in return for the service this board and others has provided him. He is not “selling” his product, he is offering it. We pay for materials, he realizes little profit and he is extremely helpful.

As for erratic, that has little to do with democracy. Don’t get it.

Clearly through bias and cynicism this is going nowhere. I am indulging :) but I would like more on your part.

Those pictures explain a lot.

Yes pun intended “horse” and a lot.

Hang SD and hang RSDT fulcrum, there will be an extreme difference where the hanger feels the fatigue.


Breathe

Originally Posted by ModestoMan
I don’t think that is how it works. Now, I have limited experience with surgery other than what I’ve read here, but I’m pretty sure the docs don’t completely release the penis from the public symphysis. They leave a little bit of lig behind at the very bottom (subpubic arcuate ligament).

I believe most guys still have normal erection angles after surgery. The shaft is still anchored deep in the pelvis, and the shape of the tunica doesn’t change. It may take a stronger erection than before to get up to the same angle, but I think it still gets there. That said, I have heard of cases where some guys’ erections point straight down after surgery. Maybe those guys can measure a gain, but I think that’s a mighty big price to pay for a small gain on the ruler.

Originally Posted by ModestoMan

Now, I have limited experience with surgery other than what I’ve read here, but I’m pretty sure the docs don’t completely release the penis from the public symphysis

Originally Posted by ModestoMan

They leave a little bit of lig behind at the very bottom (subpubic arcuate ligament).

Originally Posted by ModestoMan

The shaft is still anchored deep in the pelvis, and the shape of the tunica doesn’t change

Without those ligs regardless of the anchored shaft, the penis would not suspend properly. You saw the picture Dicko provided, imagine cutting those ligaments away. What do you think would happen? You believe the penis would still maintain that erection angle? I highly doubt it.


Breathe

Originally Posted by bubba77

Data you lack.

As do you.

Clearly Dino and Bib are not a large enough sampling size. I will be hanging seriously after summer break, I just do not have the privacy at the moment. However I will.

I will take pictures and measurements. Even if I succeed and provide this “data” I am sure you will still say nay. That I am some blind follower of Bib. However, I can’t knock it until I’ve tried it, nor should you.

I know Modesto has tried gaining through Bib’s methods, apparently he has not gained, otherwise I do not believe this would be an issue.

Bib has provided me plenty of information explaining his reasoning, I have seen very little data on your part.

Aww well.


Breathe

Originally Posted by marinera
I’d say in the iron’ pics one can’t see ‘ligs pulled out’; instead, the fundiform ligament has become thicker, due to the hanging stress and a lower bodyfat.

I’d say also the information on this site are more ‘democratic’ than ‘erratic’, if ones get what I mean. We don’t sell anything.

Oh wow I had no idea.I will have to check that out.

Originally Posted by Bugs Bunny

Bib has conducted research. This theory did not just pop into his head after a few beers for mere entertainment.

I consider “polls” an essential part of research. Think Kinsey.

…….

Democratic? Look you can’t change anatomy.

It is what it is and regardless if congress disagrees it.

So, how you can sustain Bib’s ideas with polls? ;)

Ayway, I want to explain better what I was meaning with the term ‘democratic’: in this place, there are those who believe to Bib’ belief (‘theory’ is something more than just an idea), and those who have different beliefs, or those who don’t have any belief but are able to see when an idea is baseless.

On other sites, who also have forums, unlikely all groups will have the same space, a way or another. After all, the site is there tho sell a product, right?

Originally Posted by marinera
So, how you can sustain Bib’s ideas with polls? ;)

After I go ahead through with this, put theory into practice, I will go either join the ranks of the non believers with evidence and data or I will continue with my belief with evidence and data.

I don’t need to rehash, sustain Bib’s conclusions based on his findings with polls.

He has already provided that information. However, I will pursue the theory further when I actually begin hanging seriously.

As of this moment I am adjusting the Bib Starter and Wrap so that they grab on to my internal structures without riding over the head.

Wrap loosely 1.25” behind the corona with 1.5”-2” x 15” silver Theraband, make sure top gap is smaller then bottom, adjust accordingly.

After following his instructions, I believe I have everything adjusted correctly and all that is left is applying weight.

I also need to construct my Rice Sock Duck Tape Fulcrum.

I will be using a PVC pipe for SO instead of a pulley. Though I may use a pulley later if I find the PVC pipe providing to much friction.

Need to find rope or bungee that I will bind the weights with.

Wrap, Attach Hanger, Apply weights, let bake for 20 minutes, take it out of the oven and stir it (Light/ medium jelq) for 10 minutes, reattach and put it back in for another 20.

Do this process 12 times (4 hours) repeat process next day. Focus on one angle, 12 sets one angle.

However you must build up to 12 sets starting at 2-3 sets and adding an addtional set per week. Same with weight, add 1-2 1/2 lbs a week (until you reach fatigue, your max).

If primary angle fatigued to the point where hanging is not possible, jump to secondary angle.

Every day, no breaks unless injury or close to injury. If too fatigued switch angles.

Do this for several months while measuring penis. See if any gains are realized from your stretching.

I believe one must see some sort of gains when stretching the tunica (if they follow the plan with vigilance) no matter what unless they have reached a plateau. This is not true, IMO, when hanging BTC. See above Posts.

So Bib’s idea is baseless, how ironic.

Bugs


Breathe

I wish you the best gains, BB. However, I don’t think your ‘experiment’ will be able to proove anything : I think what Modesto was saying his: hanging can work despite the LOT hypothesis. :)

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