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Low LOTter's any success?

“Penile Lengthening

Increasing penile length requires releasing the suspensory ligament and the wearing of penile weights after the surgery. Releasing the ligament partially frees the penis from its pubic bone attachments, dropping it to a lower position, which may increase penile length or give the illusion of length gain. I usually perform the operation through a several-inch transverse (sideways) incision in the pubic hair. Many surgeons advance skin onto the shaft of the penis with VY advancement flaps. A V-shaped triangle of pubic skin is moved (advanced) to the base to the penis and closed in a Y-shape. However, a large VY flap based at the junction of the penis and pubic skin is not recommended, because it often produces a deforming hair-bearing hump at the base of the penis. It also is associated with a high incidence of wound breakdown. The low transverse incision does not cause such deformities.

Ligament release alone may occasionally increase flaccid (soft) length a half an inch, but often no gain is achieved. Releasing the ligament frees more of the penis to be stretched. Weights are suspended from the penis several times daily for a period of months. Flaccid (soft) length is often increased, and erect length gain is also possible. Length increases of several inches are rare; these claims are usually based on misleading measurements taken from the apex of a V flap. ……. a one-inch gain is considered a success even with the use of weights.

http://www.altermd.com/Penis%20Enha…lengthening.htm

You can see that the author of that page is a surgeon who earns performing penile surgeries, so probably those words are all but pessimistic.

I have seen articles where it stated only about 1 in 4 people who has the surgery actually gets erect gains and I believe that but the point I was making is if the procedure of lowering your exit point by releasing the ligaments has no benefit at all, then why do they even perform these kinds of surgeries still?

I am not promoting surgery and I think it is a waste of money.


PE Goal: 7.5" NBP x 5.8" MSG

I google the text and found the page on the same site but chapter 5,
Http://www.ejhs.org/volume2/klein/penis50.htm

“The erect size of the penis technically only changes in circumference with a penile enlargement because cutting of the suspensory ligament will not add erect length.”

There’s some things that doesn’t make sense here.

Does cutting the ligaments change the girth (or do they mean the injections)?
When they say erect length are they talking about a “real” increase of the penis (ala tunica gains) or a perceived increase (ala lig gains)?

“The penile measurements taken by the subjects (n = 44) found the mean flaccid length before surgery to be 2.6 inches long. After surgery, the mean flaccid penis length was extended to 3.8 inches. This is a significant increase (t = 8.3, p < .000) in flaccid length.”

So over an inch of inner penis can be exposed by cutting the ligs, yet this somehow doesn’t increase the EL.

Let’s say the the penis length increases 150% from flaccid to erect and that your flaccid is 4” long before surgery. So erect you would be 6” long (4*1.5) before the surgery. After surgery one inch of inner penis has been exposed so the flaccid is now 5” long. That would make your erect length 7.5” long (5*1.5), yet somehow 1.5” has disappeared.

It simply doesn’t add up.

I know, bluray. :)

I think lowering the exit point can give more flaccid length and a little more erect length - about 1/4”, but it’s just a guess. The foremost results would be I think, an illusory effect.

Since we are on argument: if one wants a longer erect length, it would make sense to hang mostly at an angle similar to the erect angle - doesn’t it makes sense? If you want FL, hang mostly SD, if you want EL, hang mostly SO or SU. I always had this (naive, maybe) understanding, and nothing I have read changed it.

Originally Posted by Dicko7X5
I google the text and found the page on the same site but chapter 5,
Http://www.ejhs.org/volume2/klein/penis50.htm

“The erect size of the penis technically only changes in circumference with a penile enlargement because cutting of the suspensory ligament will not add erect length.”
……….


You can’t find the text I linked? Very strange. Anyway, he’s saying that smoe kind of srguery can give erect girth gains, but there isn’t any surgery that can give (apprecaible) erect length gains, I guess.

Originally Posted by Dicko7X5
………..
“The penile measurements taken by the subjects (n = 44) found the mean flaccid length before surgery to be 2.6 inches long. After surgery, the mean flaccid penis length was extended to 3.8 inches. This is a significant increase (t = 8.3, p < .000) in flaccid length.”

So over an inch of inner penis can be exposed by cutting the ligs, yet this somehow doesn’t increase the EL.

Let’s say the the penis length increases 150% from flaccid to erect and that your flaccid is 4” long before surgery. So erect you would be 6” long (4*1.5) before the surgery. After surgery one inch of inner penis has been exposed so the flaccid is now 5” long. That would make your erect length 7.5” long (5*1.5), yet somehow 1.5” has disappeared.

It simply doesn’t add up.


It doesn’t because, as we are saying, cutting the ligs just changes the exit point, doesn’t really elongate the penis.

That’s a first-hand witness:
“Being a lig-cut survivor myself (yes I had the surgery) and a hanger, I can say that that statement is definitely true….. The ligs will be cut in that surgery, but the tunica will remain unaffected. All you might see is a change in the way your penis hangs and no genuine growth, unless your ligs were so incredibly high and tight that they were preventing some inner penis from being exposed. Through hanging and stretching, you can deform the tunica and cause that genuine growth…”

lostracco - Hanging For Girth?


Last edited by marinera : 03-01-2009 at .

“Releasing the ligament frees more of the penis to be stretched”

So this is another good reason to make sure your ligaments have been lowered all the way isn’t it?

And yeah I think it makes sense to do an angle similar to your erection angle when I think about it. I have a 9 o clock angle so SO would be perfect.


PE Goal: 7.5" NBP x 5.8" MSG

Originally Posted by Dicko7X5
So over an inch of inner penis can be exposed by cutting the ligs, yet this somehow doesn’t increase the EL.

Let’s say the the penis length increases 150% from flaccid to erect and that your flaccid is 4” long before surgery. So erect you would be 6” long (4*1.5) before the surgery. After surgery one inch of inner penis has been exposed so the flaccid is now 5” long. That would make your erect length 7.5” long (5*1.5), yet somehow 1.5” has disappeared.

It simply doesn’t add up.

THe ligs hold the flaccid penis up (close to the pubic symphysis). Cutting the ligs allows the penis to hang down farther, since it’s no longer being held up. This gives the appearance of a longer flaccid penis. Since flaccid dicks normally point down, cutting the lig allows them to point down (hang down) even farther.

But nothing has grown. You’ve simply allowed the flaccid dick to exit the body lower along the abdomen, and closer to the origin of the dick (the ischiopubic rami).

Erect dicks, unlike flaccid ones, usually point up. All the soft tissue that was dragged down by the weight of the flaccid dick rises along with the erection, bringing the exit point approximately back where it was originally. You might see a BPEL gain, since the ruler will push in a lot farther without the ligament there to stop it, but NBPEL will remain about the same. Since cutting the ligs hasn’t changed the size of the organ, you’re left with the same thing you started with.


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Originally Posted by bluray
“Releasing the ligament frees more of the penis to be stretched”

So this is another good reason to make sure your ligaments have been lowered all the way isn’t it?

And yeah I think it makes sense to do an angle similar to your erection angle when I think about it. I have a 9 o clock angle so SO would be perfect.

It’s a good reason to make sure you spend some time hanging in an upward direction that takes your ligs out of the picture. You want your ligs to be lax so you can feel the tension all the way back to your “sit bones,” where the penis originates. Some guys can accomplish this by hanging SO—I can, but others need to use upward angles.

It is probably true that downward hanging (SD or BTC) over time makes it easier to get the ligs out of the way, so that upward hanging can be done to stress the entire shaft from stem to stern. I think this is why a combination of downward and upward hanging is important—downward hanging loosens the ligs whereas upward hanging stresses the full length of the shaft.

Note that this idea assumes that stressing the ligs actually makes them longer. I’m not totally convinced that this happens, although I’m not ready to argue against it strongly at this point. It could be that stressing the ligs causes them to get stronger, not longer (hence the increase in base girth). For the ligs, I think moderate weight, lots of time, and lots of heat will help them to lengthen rather than strengthen. The worst thing to do is to try to lift heavy weights with your ligs. If they respond as mine did, they will just turn to steel.


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Wow, and a lot of us gain more than 1 inch by hanging WITHOUT the surgery.interesting stuff. Great posts you guys!

Ok let me ask this, If I was wanting to decondition my ligs would hanging at a high angle only for a period allow them to decondition?


PE Goal: 7.5" NBP x 5.8" MSG

Originally Posted by ironaddict69
Wow, and a lot of us gain more than 1 inch by hanging WITHOUT the surgery.interesting stuff. Great posts you guys!

Yeah like modesto says you are lowering the ligs but at the same time the tunica is also being stressed and also stretched, where surgery just releases the ligs.

When are doctor’s going to start suggesting natural PE?


PE Goal: 7.5" NBP x 5.8" MSG

Originally Posted by marinera
You can’t find the text I linked? Very strange.


The text you pasted wasn’t on the page you linked to, so I got a little confused where you got it that’s all :p

Originally Posted by marinera
It doesn’t because, as we are saying, cutting the ligs just changes the exit point, doesn’t really elongate the penis.


I don’t deny that, but it doesn’t really answer my question. My point is if you expose more of the penis, it should affect both the flaccid and erect size. Like I illustrated with the example in my last post.

I’m very aware that the penis size doesn’t change, but that doesn’t mean you can’t have gains, that’s why it’s called lig “gains”. You have to make a distinction between an gain in the actual penis size and an measuring gain. If you measured a half an inch increase in your EL or BPEL I’m sure you would call that a gain, no?

That’s basically what lig gains is, you get a visual and measurement gain, but the penis size remains the same. It’s about positioning and presentation when it comes to lig gains, and that can bring measurement gains without enlargement. It’s a gain but not an enlargement. It’s a bit confusing but I think we mean the same thing but it’s a bit hard to express exactly what one means.

As I understand we pretty much agree on how lig gains work but we are using different words. I think the main difference is in how big of a roll we think lig gains play. Some probably believe it can give several inches, some believe it is pretty much insignificant. I take it you hold the latter belief.

Originally Posted by ironaddict69

Wow, and a lot of us gain more than 1 inch by hanging WITHOUT the surgery.interesting stuff. Great posts you guys!

Absolutely, the difference is we stretch the ligs instead of “cutting” them and you don’t even need a hanger for that. But the result is the same.

Originally Posted by ModestoMan
Hey Bugs. Not to single you out for abuse, but I’m having a hard time finding anything you wrote that I agree with. For example …

No. Ligaments transfer into gains because they pull back on the penis whenever you pull on your glans from the opposite direction (e.g., manually or using a hanger). If it’s true that tension on the shaft stimulates growth, then lig stretching will necessarily apply stress to the shaft at all points along the shaft forward the lig attachment.

It is not clear to me that the “inner penis” is girthier than the outer penis, and I don’t believe it is “pulled out” as a result of PE. The reason hangers see increases in base girth is that the attachment points where the ligaments attach to the shaft (at the base) become stressed and inflamed. The body’s natural response to this inflammation is to lay down new tissue to strengthen them. This causes the tissues to thicken and base girth to increase.

Somewhere on this site is an MRI of my inner penis. At least when it’s flaccid, you can see that it’s much narrower than my outer penis, suggesting the inner penis is thinner, not thicker, than the outer penis.

That’s not what I am saying. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. If you pull from the glans or thereabouts on the shaft, and the shaft pulls the ligs, then then ligs pull back on the shaft. This has to be true (Newton’s first law, I think). This puts the shaft under tension, which most PE’ers think is a requirement for gains. It has nothing to do with LOT. It is physics and biology. The physics says tension is applied to the shaft. The biology says the penis may grow in response to the applied tension.

BTC and SD may be great exercises; they certainly do a good job of stretching the dorsal side of the tunica, which is its strongest part. I wouldn’t dismiss those exercises if I wanted to get some gains.

Another unsubstantiated Bib-ism. You cannot make the conclusory statement that low LOT means anything about the amount or rate of gains. There is just no basis for believing that.

It also relates to tugback distance, the angle of the pelvis, and especially where the ligaments attach along the shaft. LOT is extremely sensitive to lig attachment point. Moving it slightly forward or back changes LOT hugely—much faster than changing lig length.

No please, Abuse away. This is great ;)

First, my Bib-ism is an interpretation by me of Bib’s research. Some of which he agreed with. They are my theory’s based on his and not absolutes.

Modesto have you read any of his research or advice on his website. It would be great to start there, rather then here. Here you have members who provide interpretations, including yourself, of his research vs. straight from the horses mouth.

Second, Shaft and Tunica are the same correct?

I do not believe that one gets gains from the ligs providing tension to the shaft, they get gains from pulling out their inner penis. However I will indulge.

The ligs only pull back on the shaft at angles above one’s LOT. So if a person were to have a low LOT where the ligs did not kick in and pull back on the shaft what would be the point in stretching them at lower angles, how would they stretch the tunica if they are not providing any resistance in the first place at a low angle. Unfortunately the only good lig stretches are at low angles. Adding more resistance then your hand is not going to cause them to activate and increase tugback on the tunica.

Or if it does, again not nearly enough to cause fatigue to the shaft. It takes a stretch specifically focused on the tunica/shaft in order to see any fatigue, and it’s still tough getting it with those stretches. So someone realizing gains from tension providing to the tunica at a stretch that is primarily designed to stretch ligs seems improbable.

I am pretty sure I have read that one’s stretch length BTC vs. SO is entirely different. One may be able to stretch their penis 6.5 inches BTC (with hanger on) and only stretch 6 inches SO or vice versa. That means I believe the tunica is not active BTC and the ligs are not active OTS, they are two seperate stretches stretching two seperate components of the penis.

Hanging OTS which is nearly the equivalent of SD does not stretch ligs, as hanging SD does not stretch the tunica.

I understand every action must have a reaction, that’s the exposure of the inner penis. It’s pushing or pulling out beyond the skin exit point.

I’ve attached pictures and weblinks

http://www.fotosearch.com/illustration/glans.html

http://www.fotosearch.com/LIF137/ga315002/

http://education.yahoo.com/referenc…cts/subject/262

They illustrate how thick the inner penis is in comparision to the outer CC and CS.

These were found here,
http://www.bibhanger.com/forums/php…&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
Great thread.

I’ve already stated, and restated what I believe hangers should do and there potential for gains / which is infinite regardless of LOT. So I will leave this at that and wait for more abuse ;)

Surgery eh. I believe hanging BTC provides the natural, well sorta, way of providing the exact same results. I wonder what their LOTs were before the surgery. If one had a high LOT, by theory, they should see gains.

Ah Ha, why do you think they want you to wear weights after the surgery! To expose what tunica lies behind the skin exit point, to expose the inner penis! That’s what gives you gains. Without ligs the resistance should be minimal and one should not have to stretch BTC with a lot of stress to “pull it out”. ADS might be enough stress, without ligs, to pull out the rest of the tunica. Those without a lot of inner tunica do not realize gains.

However why perform surgery on your penis when you could do the exact same thing with BTC. Both have the same intention, to expose what tunica/inner penis, that lies behind the skin exit point thus giving you fast(er) gains then stretching the ever so cumbersome tunica. However surgery is just a quick fix and it has no intention of a future. While BTC is merely a stepping stone that one crosses exposing all their tunica to tunica stretching.

According to the theory high LOTs with the surgery should see more gains then the LOW lots, or at least have more potential for gains. More inner penis should be behind the skin exit point. It’s not technically making your penis longer, it has always been as long as it was pre surgery or BTC, but it is exposing more of it thus making the outer penis larger (the part we all see and use).

Bugs

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Breathe

Originally Posted by Dicko7X5

I don’t deny that, but it doesn’t really answer my question. My point is if you expose more of the penis, it should affect both the flaccid and erect size. Like I illustrated with the example in my last post.

The difference is that flaccids point down. Exit points get pulled down when the ligs are cut, giving the appearance of flaccid gains. But erections point up. The erect penis pulls the exit point back up to where it was before, so no erect gains are measured.


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