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Clamping: Advanced Empirical Discussion

Originally Posted by marinera
I think it would be better taking rest days and spreading the length of the OLF phase in 3-4 weeks, IMHO.

Interesting comment. Have you ever heard of fractal geometry, by any chance? There is a French mathematician called Benoit Mandelbrot who created it in the 60’s I think…very interesting. It’s basically a type of mathematics to describe systems that contain identical subsystems, which are surprisingly common in the real world. It has diverse applications (including finance now).

This is basically a fractal. If you break it down that way, the week itself has an OLF and OLR (OLR is the rest day). If you break it further, each day has an OLF and OLR (OLF while clamping, OLR for the rest). We could use this method to better analyze all of our “how many days a week” or “how many rest days” questions and thoughts.

My intuition through personal experience and through kaan and PapSmear are the same - that about 2 weeks is the perfect time. Of course, if you do less fatigue and increase time, that could work also - but I have a feeling that a certain amount of fatigue needs to be used (quite heavy) for this to work, and that amount couldn’t be maintained for more than around 2 weeks (PapSmear’s injury, and several others, were basically from holding fatigue too long).

Now if you include rest days, you could hold the same daily fatigue and extend the weeks, but also in my experience rest days have never been good (it was better to lower the fatigue and take none). This is, of course, all intuition, you could be right as well. Only empirical tests will show. But bear in mind, our two shining stars here both did not use rest days and both accumulated gains in around a 2 week period. Small sample, but that’s what we’ve got.

But it’s a nice way of looking at all this, right? Particularly for clamping.

Originally Posted by LongVehicle

Interesting comment. Have you ever heard of fractal geometry, by any chance? There is a French mathematician called Benoit Mandelbrot who created it in the 60’s I think…very interesting. It’s basically a type of mathematics to describe systems that contain identical subsystems, which are surprisingly common in the real world. It has diverse applications (including finance now).

…….

Recursion

;)

Originally Posted by LongVehicle

….

My intuition through personal experience and through kaan and PapSmear are the same - that about 2 weeks is the perfect time….

Ok. See if there is anybody interested in testing this all. I have to repeat, sorry: very experienced PEers only, we don’t want hear complaints about injuries. So said, you could start a thread in the experiment section, if you like.

Originally Posted by marinera
Recursion
;)

Ok. See if there is anybody interested in testing this all. I have to repeat, sorry: very experienced PEers only, we don’t want hear complaints about injuries. So said, you could start a thread in the experiment section, if you like.

Are you a computer scientist? Your references seem slanted to that side, I’ve noticed. But that is the term used. For any other readers without a background in the field, you might have heard of this under an alternate literature that Mandelbrot contributed to called “Chaos Theory.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractal

I wonder if there will be any takers though. I need some time to perfect my use of the two added variables in my stimulation so I’m out. Should we try anyway? The only person here that seems relevant on the thread is Beretta. TC and Pillars from earlier don’t have enough experience to make use of this yet.

Start a new thread in the experiment section, have some patience and hopely somebody with the required experience will accept. :)

:up:

Red Zulu:

http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/…ead.php?t=34781

http://mattersofsize.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51698

He basically does some of the most extreme workouts I’ve seen, and he does them infrequently. He routinely contradicts himself in his thread, so I decided not to try to interview him.

What I can derive from his posts are that he tries very hard to increase expansion while in clamp. He uses the same TUC as I have concluded is optimal. I would not suggest anyone try what he’s doing unless they are overly experienced (I won’t try it myself), but the second thread is interesting.

Originally Posted by LongVehicle
Red Zulu:

http://www.mattersofsize.com/forum/…ead.php?t=34781

http://mattersofsize.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51698

He basically does some of the most extreme workouts I’ve seen, and he does them infrequently. He routinely contradicts himself in his thread, so I decided not to try to interview him.

What I can derive from his posts are that he tries very hard to increase expansion while in clamp. He uses the same TUC as I have concluded is optimal. I would not suggest anyone try what he’s doing unless they are overly experienced (I won’t try it myself), but the second thread is interesting.

Actually, I’d advise to stay away from that entire site. I joined and discovered some shady stuff (DLD, etc.). The only useful information I could derive was that Red Zulu does horse squeezes while clamped. He also seems to have poor knowledge of pumping honestly. I’m not really sure he does anything unique, he uses long TUC, horse squeezes, and other extreme things. However, I did get a new idea from him that I will try to post about later.

Originally Posted by marinera
Ok ok, nothing new under the sun.
mravg - CLAMPING Everything You Ever Wanted To Know

Ah - I see our friendly Italian PE researcher is awake!

So, here is what I realized could be possible while reading Red Zulu’s posts. He has a new thread about applying pressure to the top and bottom of the penis through clamping. The thread is extremely long, unnecessarily. What he does is: he clamps normally, then he takes two pieces of tile, places one on both sides of the penis (top and bottom), and clamps both ends of the tiles together with the large clamp. He claims to have gained width.

Anyway, how does this relate?

Drilla posted pictures of his approximate 0.7 inch EG gain from clamping, and as many members will note, the gains are almost exclusively visible on the underside of his penis (anatomic name? the line on the bottom, anyhow). Gains in this area have been mentioned several times by members.

So we have Red Zulu gaining width by applying pressure from top and bottom, and we have other members gaining downwards (possible upwards too) in EG through normal cable clamping. How did I connect these two?

Today I used a much shorter piece of wrap, as my EG is getting too large for my former one to be comfortably wrapped and clamped over. I cut it a bit too short, and finally experienced something similar to what most cable clampers experience clamping. The constriction wasn’t as good, by the way. Anyway, I noticed that the clamps’ exertion of force is at an odd angle. Do to my wrap, this wasn’t evident (the major force was from the wrap itself, and the wrap also made my penis more rounded) before, but now it was clear to me that due to comfort, the cable clamp would be applied such that much of the force came to the sides of the penis - as opposed to top and bottom. I could feel this very clearly, and it was extremely different from the way I clamped under more wrap.

I hurried back and re-examined Drilla’s clamped pictures. Same situation as I had today.

I then remembered the thread Thick Cock posted several pages earlier written by an engineer about growth around the clamped area due to force applied to the area itself.

I think we may be gaining more of bottom and top EG because of the angle of force exerted by the cable clamp. I realize, if this is the case, one would expect it to only affect the clamped area (as Red Zulu reports with on the areas that he applies pressure to). But, the tunica is one piece really, it would be impossible to separate the effects on the area clamped directly from the rest of the tunica. Maybe that’s why more base girth growth is seen, and why our clamping growth is so vertical in nature (mine has not been, by the way).

The underside should be the Corpus Spongiosum, I think. Pushing sides causes growth of the CS? So, the penis should grow in dept more than in width. Not sure if this is true; when jelqing one push sides, and B-G also says cable is build in a way that pushes mainly on sides; neverthless, by what I’ve seen most of girth happens in width.

>>I then remembered the thread Thick Cock posted several pages earlier written by an engineer about growth around the clamped area due to force applied to the area itself. <<

This doesn’t explain anything, IMHO.

I don’t have much time these days, but I drop in and see what you are up to when I can.

What I wish to add is Xeno found and some other smart guys agreed that about 2 weeks was when gains peaked and adaptive response really started to kick in, making continued stress unproductive and greatly increasing the time needed for productive decon.

So, I like the two week ramping up (which was also a key feature in Xeno’s IPR system), he would also then have a period of 4 weeks of decreased load basically to hold gains and then apx 2 months layoff.

Finding xeno: a penis tale [summary starts at post 115, pg 8]

I think he found some valid things, but the main factor that I disagreed with was he would end up with hanging forces so high that I think he ended up with tremendous toughening that brought further gains to a screeching halt.

I think what is worth keeping and looking into is the two week of ramping up (he used a factor of 1.5) followed by a period of ADS ( for girth use lower force for shorter times) then a decon break.

What I personally would like to try is 2 weeks of water pumping (much more effective than air IMO) OR clamping done in a ramping manor ( the 1.2 -1.5 multiplier is a good starting place) then cut it way back for a week or two (but enough to MAINTAIN gains), which I believe acts to CEMENT gains. THEN take a week or two off. Then you can repeat the cycle. I think this would really be interesting in that it incorporates a lot of what I have seen work for others in one form or another.

I think you guys are on to something here, I’m going to be following to see what kind of results you get. I am currently on a 2 week break after some very productive experimentation with water pumping. I think I will try and follow a similar protocol when I end my decon in about 2 weeks and I will let you know what happens if you are interested.

By the way Marinara, I now think that a “less is more” guy though careful conditioning can end up in the “more is more” camp.

Keep up the interesting thread!


Last edited by sparkyx : 07-18-2009 at .

Thank you Sparkyx, it’s always great to hear your opinions.

It’s true, Xenolith posted concepts similar to those exposed here - even the application of recursion (fibonacci’ numbers are a case of recursion) etc.:

xenolith - Finding xeno: a penis tale

I don’t know if we should be more happy or worried for that. :D

Originally Posted by marinera
The underside should be the Corpus Spongiosum, I think. Pushing sides causes growth of the CS? So, the penis should grow in dept more than in width. Not sure if this is true; when jelqing one push sides, and B-G also says cable is build in a way that pushes mainly on sides; neverthless, by what I’ve seen most of girth happens in width.

>>I then remembered the thread Thick Cock posted several pages earlier written by an engineer about growth around the clamped area due to force applied to the area itself. <<

This doesn’t explain anything, IMHO.

So you agree that cable clamps push more on the sides. I think growth of the CS (?) has been discussed heavily. Drilla’s Clamp-o-rilla thread discusses his heavily. You might have seen growth on width because you use a horse clamp (not sure). But this is quite common empirically I think.

It doesn’t explain anything, but it gave me the inclination to think that growth may be caused because of force exerted to the tunica, which I never considered before. I thought it was either somehow through engorgement or through the lack of oxygen, but it seems possible that it was something to do with the force exerted. Maybe that force is channeled through the tunica at less pressure than at the base, and that is simply responsible for all the gains we have had? Maybe for the force to stimulate growth the tunica needs to be engorged, and BG didn’t see base growth because his base was not engorged (due to loss of erection during the session). I’m really just thinking aloud.

Originally Posted by sparkyx
What I personally would like to try is 2 weeks of water pumping (much more effective than air IMO) OR clamping done in a ramping manor ( the 1.2 -1.5 multiplier is a good starting place) then cut it way back for a week or two (but enough to MAINTAIN gains), which I believe acts to CEMENT gains. THEN take a week or two off. Then you can repeat the cycle. I think this would really be interesting in that it incorporates a lot of what I have seen work for others in one form or another.

More effective than air? How so? Can you expand on that? I plan to start pumping on Monday, so this could be very helpful.

I’m not sure why a week or two off would be needed though. That seems unnecessary. The point should just be to get rid of the carried fatigue - once its gone, repeat. Right? Or is this about the “deconditioning” stuff? I can’t see any reason for this theoretically or empirically…personally the breaks have never helped. Once I get rid of fatigue, taking a break just wastes time. Unless you meant the 1-2 weeks of break are actually the OLR time period - then that would make sense to me.

Thanks for posting sparkyx.

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