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Clamping: Advanced Empirical Discussion

3.

Originally Posted by LongVehicle

It doesn’t sound confused. It SOUNDS like you’re an economist, haha. You wrote the entire post outlining your method of dealing with the situation under the assumption of a causality.

The method we use is logical and I’m on track regarding your post-assumption process and logic. The problem lies in the assumption of causality. Now let’s be realistic, we are not going to get enough data to regress anything or do any statistical analysis. We also can’t wait long enough to perform experiments with groups (plus, the groups would be small - and the level of observation extremely sketchy, so any mistake in 1 test subject could lead to a failure in the experiment).

What I wanted to do is find out through other members’ experiences what they have found regarding the TUC. It has been very difficult to do that. The thread failed.

But let me tell you what I DO know:

1. My experience: Moving from 10 to 18 minute sets has allowed me much greater growth over time with everything else held constant excluding set frequency - I do MUCH lower frequency and achieve higher gains.

2. Big Girtha: HIGH frequency and 10 minute sets. He gained 2 inches. BUT, NOTE that he gained the majority before he began going overboard on frequency (before his clamping marathons). I think he overdid frequency, there was HEAVY diminishing gains from what I can see… I think this implies that we could assume that the penis may be adjusting to time under clamp, instead of time clamped period. Implication, and unverifiable.

3. Kaan: Kaan is our verifiable Aristocane. He thinks he gained because of consistency and because of extreme constriction: I THINK he gained (given consistency) because of high set time. He basically did what I do, 3x18 on average at high constriction.

What this tells me is that is we let constriction be complete (rock hard head), TUC seems to be the determining factor. I REALIZE we have a VERY small sample and this is not in any way rigorous, but we have to use what we have. I simply cannot avoid this indication from the reliable sources. I assume that TUC > frequency, but I don’t know about how far we can increase TUC is we lower constriction levels (in terms of health danger), and I also don’t know if we will lose gains at lower constriction levels. Is there a constraint on complete constriction? -> we have Drilla’s experience, he did not do complete constriction, used 3x15 - but he gained slower than me and Big Girtha and Kaan. MUCH slower.

I realize this is unscientific. I am a statistician by training, we have a lot of causality problems and extremely low amounts of data, but we have to go on what we have here. I truly believe that we can figure out how to clamp effectively, and I also suspect that we are not currently doing it optimally. It took over 80 years for bodybuilders to be able to pass the 19 inch barrier on bicep measurements - yet they were discussing and working together from the start in the late 1800’s. Now we have 350 lb. bodybuilders at 12% bf - no bodybuilder in the 1920’s could have even imagined such a thing. It is hard for us as human beings to imagine and take account for knowledge that we don’t know… it is a major philosophical problem. But I am certain that there is a lot we don’t know here, and I think we can figure enough out for it to be beneficial to us personally as PE’ers.

Also, regarding pumping: there may be a MARGINAL benefit of adding pumping workouts in addition to clamping workouts that surpasses the marginal benefit of an extra clamping set. For example, I clamp currently for 4 sets per day, would a 5th set of pumping be more beneficial than a 5th set of clamping? Would it cause less fatigue for similar gains? Would my body better be able to handle its fatigue and repair quicker? Is it advisable to include it or not? These questions need to be answered if we are to create optimal routines.

LV (hope this post doesn’t sound confused - seriously, I’m thinking aloud).

P.S. Get EVO if you don’t have it and apply it daily. EXTREMELY useful - this has helped me tremendously is overall comfort and in healing. It should be mandatory for all clampers.

Originally Posted by LongVehicle

It doesn’t sound confused. It SOUNDS like you’re an economist, haha. You wrote the entire post outlining your method of dealing with the situation under the assumption of a causality.

………

I’m officially offended by this. I’ll wait for you at the school exit.

Seriously, yes, those are couple of hypothesis on which I’m building my answer. I admitted that as a premise. We are dealing with things that we can’t study in a truly scientifical way, what we can do is, looking at our personal experience and anecdotal reports, make the more convincing hypothesis possible, from here try to make a theory, and then test in someway this theory. That’s why I often say to take this ‘scientific’ threads more as a funny than a serious thing.

Originally Posted by LongVehicle

……….

What I wanted to do is find out through other members’ experiences what they have found regarding the TUC. …..

But let me tell you what I DO know:

1. My experience: Moving from 10 to 18 minute sets has allowed me much greater growth over time with everything else held constant excluding set frequency - I do MUCH lower frequency and achieve higher gains.

2. Big Girtha: HIGH frequency and 10 minute sets……

3. Kaan: Kaan is our verifiable Aristocane. ……….

I think personal experience has to have the last word. If this was proven to be effective for you, than there is a little to argue against.

B-G’ and Kaan’ experience have not the same weigh here: B-G gained 2 inches before going to marathon, you say; every minimal more gain would be very hard to achieve. About Kaan, I don’t know if he varied that much his time/constriction variables, so we lack a counterproof here.

Originally Posted by LongVehicle

……

What this tells me is that is we let constriction be complete (rock hard head), TUC seems to be the determining factor. ……. I assume that TUC > frequency, but I don’t know about how far we can increase TUC is we lower constriction levels (in terms of health danger), and I also don’t know if we will lose gains at lower constriction levels. Is there a constraint on complete constriction?

………

I don’t think you can get really TOTAL constriction. If this was the case, you would have hypoxia after about 5 minutes, I think. But of course, this doesn’t cut out the possibility that intensity of pressure (so how much the clamp is tightened) could be the major factor.

If this was the case, than I can’t see any other way to add more constriction than using a wider clamp, or some kind of partial insulation; if you tighten too much a narrow clamp, aren’t you raising the risks of breaking your tunica under the clamp?

Quote

Also, regarding pumping: there may be a MARGINAL benefit of adding pumping workouts in addition to clamping workouts that surpasses the marginal benefit of an extra clamping set. …

This seems to be in contradiction to your previous assumption, that the degree of constriction is the major factor in having girth gains, or am I missing something?

This case report seems to suggest that partial blood flow occlusion is what is needed to have penile gains, and that total occlusion is very dangerous.

marinera - Loading, lengthening, healing.

For the record, although it has little relevance, Strain ellipse mechanics adjacent to clamps

Could explain the reason why our bases increase in size from clamping and bring about a different, maybe more efficient way to clamp?


In search of a perfect body, penis, and girl.

The search NO longer continues. :)

Originally Posted by marinera
I’m officially offended by this. I’ll wait for you at the school exit.

Seriously, yes, those are couple of hypothesis on which I’m building my answer. I admitted that as a premise. We are dealing with things that we can’t study in a truly scientifical way, what we can do is, looking at our personal experience and anecdotal reports, make the more convincing hypothesis possible, from here try to make a theory, and then test in someway this theory. That’s why I often say to take this ‘scientific’ threads more as a funny than a serious thing.

I think personal experience has to have the last word. If this was proven to be effective for you, than there is a little to argue against.

B-G’ and Kaan’ experience have not the same weigh here: B-G gained 2 inches before going to marathon, you say; every minimal more gain would be very hard to achieve. About Kaan, I don’t know if he varied that much his time/constriction variables, so we lack a counterproof here.

I don’t think you can get really TOTAL constriction. If this was the case, you would have hypoxia after about 5 minutes, I think. But of course, this doesn’t cut out the possibility that intensity of pressure (so how much the clamp is tightened) could be the major factor.

If this was the case, than I can’t see any other way to add more constriction than using a wider clamp, or some kind of partial insulation; if you tighten too much a narrow clamp, aren’t you raising the risks of breaking your tunica under the clamp?

This seems to be in contradiction to your previous assumption, that the degree of constriction is the major factor in having girth gains, or am I missing something?

I agree. I just mentioned your assumption because I was trying to point out that what we want to figure out is whether the assumption is false or correct, ie, we are in agreement about what to do if that is correct.

There is no poster here that we can use as much as Big Girtha. His experience seems to be the most vast and his curiosity in trying various things is helpful. I mentioned Kaan not because of the absolute amount of his gains, but rather, the relative amount of his gains compared to Drilla. Drilla gained the same amount over a MUCH longer period. They used the same set time, so we can through out that factor. The only differences are that Kaan was rock hard and Drilla was not, and also that Drilla did not work on weekends, while Kaan attributed his gains to daily effort over 2 weeks. Let me make this clear, we are talking about a half in gain for the both of them. The difference in time? Kaan did it in about 1/12th of what Drilla used (most of his gains were in a 2 week period).

Clearly we have the genetics, environment, sleep, etc. to deal with, but we can’t be rigorous about that here so lets just ignore it. What we find is major difference in consistency and rock hard clamps. Who else do we know who was consistent and rock hard? Big Girtha. But, his TUC was different, so he isn’t easy to compare (10 vs. 15 for the both of them).

We also have a thread which Thick Cock sent to me last night…somehow I never saw it before:

Comparison Pictures, 8in to 9in

This guy is harder to classify. He moved around between BG and Kaan’s times, seemed to use more constriction than Drilla but less than the other folks. All I can really tell from his is the benefit of consistency.

We have TUC, constriction level, frequency of sets (which I am now ignoring because I believe this to be unimportant compared to the first 2), and pumping.

Regarding pumping: I really don’t know much about it. My feelings are basically that it seems complex and the gains seem sketchy. But what I do know is as a 100% girth person, my only current exercises to choose from are clamping and pumping. And what I know from experience is that at one point or another the marginal benefit of adding pumping sets might outweigh clamping sets. Further, there might be some benefit in terms of stimulation that would arise from the two used together (I keep calling this the codependent effects).

I have NO experience here, and NO knowledge. I wish Big Girtha would explain to us, in detail, his experience with pumping, his opinions, and particularly with regard to using them together. I know he has done this (I nerded his threads for a very long time - BG if you are reading this, thank you), and I think he might be one of the only people who is thoroughly experienced in both tools. Most people seem to pick one. There are a ton of great posters in the pumping forum, but they don’t seem to clamp (I PM’ed a few).

Healing

Gentlemen,

I have been meaning to post this. I have some very strong opinions that I have developed regarding EVO and I want to make every clamper here aware of how beneficial this has been for me.

I sincerely wish I could travel back in time so that I could use EVO (Eroset’s oil) since the beginning of my clamping journey. It has changed everything for me. It may even cause gains on its own, but I only suspect this. I read the EVO thread and found that there doesn’t seem to be anyone who took the mixture and seriously diligently used it alongside clamping. Even BG (I don’t remember him mentioning using it personally), which is odd, because the benefits I experienced from it I expect would get him excited. Let me try to point out what I’ve concluded so far since I began using it at the start of this thread.

1. Comfort

The first thing I know for sure. My life has been much easier for me with EVO (which I will simply call “evo” as I am getting tired of capitalizing it). The exterior of my penis, which probably includes all of the skin, the exterior of the head, and some of the interior (though much less), experience significantly less soreness consistently. This means I am more comfortable at all times. It also means that you can overdo your sessions if you are a new to clamping and do not yet know how to feel the soreness inside your shaft (its a distinct feeling for me). So, while this is extremely comforting, try to pay attention to feeling, or at least maintain a strict clamping schedule when you begin so you don’t overdo it.

2. Healing

Isn’t that along with comfort? Not really. The problem that I think Sparkyx pointed out at the beginning of the thread is correct. The inner penis seems to be affected much less than the exterior. But, I have still noticed increased healing rate - to the extent that I have been able to increase my volume in a more rapid manner while on it (without over-fatiguing, I am not talking about it feeling healthier, I am talking about actually faster recuperation).

3. Flaccid Hang

I am completely uninterested in this as a goal, but Big Girtha is, so this post is for him. I have used some sorts of ADS (never golf rings) before, and I have done some other things that were supposed to increase my flaccid size. Nothing has ever come close to the effect of evo. Nothing. My penis is engorged constantly in a much thicker and significantly longer flaccid than would otherwise be possible. I’m not sure if this is basically of the combination of evo and clamping - I can’t really isolate either one. But both of them together has given me this.

4. Vascularity

I should call this point prettiness really. My unit is much prettier. It is more colorful (brighter?), softer, etc. - women are going to love this. But, more importantly, I have gained a significant amount of vascularity. Veins are more pronounced than ever. I know the clampers here have probably experienced this from clamping over time, but I have seen a visible difference on evo.

Notes:

First, this is just my experience. You might have better or worse results.

Second, I did not see these results until I began using evo day and night. I’m not talking about simply sleeping with evo on and a sock on top. I mean re-applying approximately every 2-3 hours. Sounds like a chore right? It isn’t. It’s extremely faster (get a spoon or some utensil to get it on you so you don’t have to keep washing your hands, get an old ankle length sock to put on afterward) and the results will keep you doing it. It took me about a week to see the results all out, but that may have been because I originally didn’t apply it this often.

Finally, I am thinking of adding Aloe Vera to this. I am not sure if its a good idea though, I am very inexperienced in chemistry and biology, but it does seem to have some wondrous effects on skincare. Collagen production isn’t what I’m thinking of though, I’m not sure how we could really manipulate that. Hell, we don’t even know what’s growing through clamping yet so I guess its irrelevant for now, haha.

Originally Posted by Thick Cock
For the record, although it has little relevance, Strain ellipse mechanics adjacent to clamps

Could explain the reason why our bases increase in size from clamping and bring about a different, maybe more efficient way to clamp?

TC,

Another thread I somehow missed. I think I saw this a very long time ago but never read it.

I wish we could get xenolith back. Sounds like an interesting guy, but the thread sort of died off at the end. Also, where is sparkyx? He seems to have a lot of clamping research going on behind the scenes.

I wonder about this. Why has Big Girtha not gained base girth? He actually moved to prefer one clamp for the reason that he wasn’t gaining around the area clamped. Could this be because he let erections subside? Is the growth of base caused by xenolith/sparkx’s idea - and if so, is that idea dependent on an erection existing? Seems not to, since hanging caused similar things.

Did anyone EVER try clamping in other areas? We’ve got to try this out. There’s no reason to go crazy with it…if someone was interested, we could have him simply apply a second clamp distantly placed from the base clamp, at less of a constriction, for a couple of months and see if there is any change. I would do this ASAP, but my base girth is actually significantly smaller than circumference scar and midshaft girth. Anyone with the opposite problem willing to test it out? Ideally he’d have several months of clamping so we have some sort of control experience.

There’s a mysterious guy called Red Zulu who posted on BG’s CLAMPING thread a couple of times. He seems to have a unique method, anyone know him or about him?

Attention all clampers!

Interesting thread on the constriction level, from sparkyx.

Long: Looks like you are doing a good job on tracking all this down and keeping accurate records. You’ll have to excuse my slow responses to this thread; there is a new young lady I have tragically become involved with that is eating up most of my time as well as my sanity. Besides, I seem to be better received on the Smut Threads. :leftie:

Red Zulu: as I recall was a member of MOS, so his posts here at TP are probably rare, but I do remember he had gained substantially from some pretty extreme methods, seems he was also involved in all that DLD hysteria. Where exactly did you run across his posts? I can’t find anything on him with the search engine.

I remember when Eroset first unveiled his EVO. It was quite a hit with members here, but not being a lube kind of guy, I never really tried it. I find that lube just makes PE messy and more difficult, especially for jelqing. For me, once my dick has any kind of slick-um on it, I just can’t get a good enough grip to do anything productive other than pump. Even then I use just enough lube to slip into the tube, but never for anything else, and I can’t see how or why anyone would use lube for clamping. Then again, I don’t see how you can clamp over Theraband. This would make me sore as hell. The wrap used in clamping needs to be soft and dry.

As far as staying hard in the clamp, I really don’t think it is necessary for girth work. However, I didn’t always feel this way. I think I actually promoted the idea of keeping stimulated in my earlier posts, and maybe it had some bearing on my gains. But now I feel engorged is engorged, whether your dick is pointed up, straight out or down has little to do with anything. As long as it is plump with fresh blood you are fine. For pumping you need to stay hard.

Also, I’m not quite clear on this idea that restricting blood flow brings girth gains or any kinds of gains. I do not believe this. Engorgement brings girth. I don’t think it matters if you do it with vacuum or with blood trapped by a cable clamp or with Deep Dry Jelqs, anything that keeps the CC swelled beyond its maximum erect volume will eventually cause enlargement of girth and total volume.

But if you used trapped blood to do this, I think it is very important to use fresh oxygenated blood and not stale deoxygenated, tissue starving blood. This is why I feel 10 minutes is long enough for a clamping set. I know Bib said cutting circulation for 20 minutes is safe, but for me anytime much over 10 minutes in a cable clamp or clamp-on style hanger, is pushing it. I feel damage is being done once the head is numb. The tingling sensation is oxygen starved cells crying out for a breath of fresh air, or so says the good doctor. Doc first made me wise to this concept, and I have to admit it is one of the suggestions I agree with her on. Ten minutes tops. Squeeze out the old blood and jelq in fresh and clamp again on into infinitum if you like, but longer clamping sets are just bad PE in my humble opinion.


2003: 6X5 2010: 7X7

No Nukes


Last edited by Big Girtha : 07-14-2009 at .

BG- Thanks for chiming in here. You are a true inspiration/legend here at Thunders. I have read a lot of your posts over my years here and learned a lot. I’m curious though, and I apologize if you have answered this in a post I missed, but what are you doing right now as far as PE goes? Are you simply doing maintenance? Or are you still clamping pretty hard-core? Does it seem that once you hit that 2” of EG gain, it just kind of maxed out?

I don’t have the time to go quite as hard-core as you did over the years, but I am working up to something about 1/2 the level. Also, I can’t agree more with the “never let it turtle” saying…. ADS/cockring/cock strap after routine and on days off, always something. Works fucking wonders on the flaccid.

Originally Posted by LongVehicle
Regarding pumping: I really don’t know much about it. My feelings are basically that it seems complex and the gains seem sketchy. But what I do know is as a 100% girth person, my only current exercises to choose from are clamping and pumping. And what I know from experience is that at one point or another the marginal benefit of adding pumping sets might outweigh clamping sets. Further, there might be some benefit in terms of stimulation that would arise from the two used together (I keep calling this the codependent effects).

I have NO experience here, and NO knowledge. I wish Big Girtha would explain to us, in detail, his experience with pumping, his opinions, and particularly with regard to using them together. I know he has done this (I nerded his threads for a very long time - BG if you are reading this, thank you), and I think he might be one of the only people who is thoroughly experienced in both tools. Most people seem to pick one. There are a ton of great posters in the pumping forum, but they don’t seem to clamp (I PM’ed a few).


If my memory serves me correctly I believe Clpg7 clamped and pumped. Maybe he’ll check in here or you could PM him.


In search of a perfect body, penis, and girl.

The search NO longer continues. :)

I’ve clamped and pumped together, did it for almost a year like that. As I mentioned previously in this thread (and others), I concluded it was time to change it. There is a significant difference if you pump AFTER clamping, opposed to doing it the other way around. At least for me anyway…. Maybe it is my level of “conditioning”?

I can’t say doing it the other way around is not good, as I did gain 1/4” EG doing it that way, in about 9 months time. I plateaued hard though, and doing it the other way around makes for much better, serious and true/real expansion. No false fluid/lymph girth expansion. Doing it the other way around for several weeks now, eventually taking out pumping completely (temporarily?), I have started to gain again, NOTICABLY. I’ve also stepped up the clamping sets to cover the time vacated by pumping. Incredible and permanent increase in flaccid already! Best thing I ever did…

Originally Posted by Big Girtha
Red Zulu: as I recall was a member of MOS, so his posts here at TP are probably rare, but I do remember he had gained substantially from some pretty extreme methods, seems he was also involved in all that DLD hysteria. Where exactly did you run across his posts? I can’t find anything on him with the search engine.

We have to find this guy, or find his posts at least. I’ve never been at MOS. He posted a couple of times in your clamping thread BG, I’m not sure if his posts were possibly deleted, but I remember reading them there (you referred to him, regarding clamping marathons, after he had already posted in the thread I think).

Originally Posted by Big Girtha
I remember when Eroset first unveiled his EVO. It was quite a hit with members here, but not being a lube kind of guy, I never really tried it. I find that lube just makes PE messy and more difficult, especially for jelqing. For me, once my dick has any kind of slick-um on it, I just can’t get a good enough grip to do anything productive other than pump. Even then I use just enough lube to slip into the tube, but never for anything else, and I can’t see how or why anyone would use lube for clamping. Then again, I don’t see how you can clamp over Theraband. This would make me sore as hell. The wrap used in clamping needs to be soft and dry.

I’ve never done anything lubricated either BG. I don’t clamp lubricated, the EVO usually dries off by the time I clamp and any left over residue is not significant in my experience. I use this between clamping sets and before sleeping. I would suggest you try it before sleeping at least…the effects from it that I’ve had seem that they would at the very least complement your big flaccid goal.

Originally Posted by Big Girtha
Also, I’m not quite clear on this idea that restricting blood flow brings girth gains or any kinds of gains. I do not believe this. Engorgement brings girth. I don’t think it matters if you do it with vacuum or with blood trapped by a cable clamp or with Deep Dry Jelqs, anything that keeps the CC swelled beyond its maximum erect volume will eventually cause enlargement of girth and total volume.

But if you used trapped blood to do this, I think it is very important to use fresh oxygenated blood and not stale deoxygenated, tissue starving blood. This is why I feel 10 minutes is long enough for a clamping set. I know Bib said cutting circulation for 20 minutes is safe, but for me anytime much over 10 minutes in a cable clamp or clamp-on style hanger, is pushing it. I feel damage is being done once the head is numb. The tingling sensation is oxygen starved cells crying out for a breath of fresh air, or so says the good doctor. Doc first made me wise to this concept, and I have to admit it is one of the suggestions I agree with her on. Ten minutes tops. Squeeze out the old blood and jelq in fresh and clamp again on into infinitum if you like, but longer clamping sets are just bad PE in my humble opinion.

People here seem to think its either engorgement, restricting blood flow, or the pressure applied (as sparkyx discussed, to the base of the penis), or some sort of combination of these things. In all of the cases there is a chance that extending TUC would provide better marginal gains than increasing the sets of clamping - ignoring potential health hazards of course.

BG:

1. What was your experience combining clamping with pumping? Absolutely anything you can say here would be useful for us.

2. Did you gain more, or even continue to gain, after increasing the sets to the level of clamping marathons - looking back? I know they felt useful, but were there large gains drawn out from increasing the sets to somewhere around 16x10?

Originally Posted by Beretta92
I’ve clamped and pumped together, did it for almost a year like that. As I mentioned previously in this thread (and others), I concluded it was time to change it. There is a significant difference if you pump AFTER clamping, opposed to doing it the other way around. At least for me anyway…. Maybe it is my level of “conditioning”?

I can’t say doing it the other way around is not good, as I did gain 1/4” EG doing it that way, in about 9 months time. I plateaued hard though, and doing it the other way around makes for much better, serious and true/real expansion. No false fluid/lymph girth expansion. Doing it the other way around for several weeks now, eventually taking out pumping completely (temporarily?), I have started to gain again, NOTICABLY. I’ve also stepped up the clamping sets to cover the time vacated by pumping. Incredible and permanent increase in flaccid already! Best thing I ever did…

Beretta, I did read your post and thank you for commenting on this. It’s interesting that you mention that doing it after clamping is different than before. I expected this might be the case. How exactly did you find gains different both ways? Did you do this for long enough both ways to be able to compare?

I’ve also PM’ed you regarding the generic cialis. Weird stuff is going on.

Originally Posted by Thick Cock
If my memory serves me correctly I believe Clpg7 clamped and pumped. Maybe he’ll check in here or you could PM him.

There are quite a few people I’ve realized. The thing is, I’m not sure how many clamped and pumped to our levels of obsession. BG is the only one I can think of that did both to a serious degree, and did them in combination. I’m not sure who Clpg7 is. Maybe Thunder could help us, since he is always monitoring the posts: ThunderSS, do you know any long-time members who did both pumping and clamping, and did them at the same time (as in during the same days)?

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