Thunder's Place

The big penis and mens' sexual health source, increasing penis size around the world.

Jelqing has destroyed my life A warning.

By the way I never planned on being a banner-holder for the injured. There are a lot of guys with much more knowledge on the subject than myself and I feel uncomfortable.

Originally Posted by Owen33
@ Thunder

“Whose sense of responsibility?”

I believe the member in question was Lampwick. But it should apply to everyone. I think it’s “seriously uncool” to be offering advice when it comes to something with stakes this high if one is not 200 percent certain. That requires re-examining attitudes people may have unconsciously acquired over the years in contact with a subject (PE). Just my two cents.

<snip>

OK, Owen, since you seem to want to keep this going, I’m calling you on this one.

Here’s my post:
Lampwick - Jelqing has destroyed my life A warning.

which produced this response from you:

@Lampwick

It is funny that you ask for the “source of my statistics” and speak about my “lack of credibility” (all the while your own “source of statistics” and “credibility” is non-existent). You’re not a board in front of which I have to pass an exam. Its take it or leave it. I didn’t even write this for guys like you. But if you continue to hand out dangerous opinions and advice to people be ready for one hell of an Afterlife.

Care to share just where in my post I’m handing out dangerous opinions and advice?

Would it be where I warned “if you’re doing things to your dick beyond the standard forces of masturbation or intercourse, there is a greater chance of injury.”?

Would it be when I said “It’s a good reason to be careful with your dick.”?

Would it be when I said “Careful is good. Cautious is good. Well informed before even starting PE is good.”?


For Lampwick, becoming hung like a donkey was the result of a total commitment.


Last edited by Lampwick : 05-06-2010 at .

Originally Posted by Owen33
I thought the upper part of the screen were just some commercials.

I think some of what people are reacting to is you painting Thunder’sPlace with a brush that should be reserved for other, commercial, forums. We have absolutely no commercials of any kind. No affiliates or kick backs. No mandatory membership dues. We truly are an oddity in the inter webs. Comments like the above do affect how others view your credibility.

In addition, nobody is ever banned simply for disagreeing with the boss. Disagree all you want; just be polite about it. And be able to site sources if you claim that you opinions are facts. We don’t engage in the rampant thread editing that many forums do either. In fact, on those rare occasions that we do engage in editing it is not to make things easier for the moderators. We simply don’t swing that way.

Originally Posted by Owen33
MrNilsen was banned. Three years later he is in contact with people with ED on other sites

My best wishes for him. In hind site he may well have experienced some injury to his penis. The problem was, he was most defiantly lying repeatedly in his thread. Perhaps it was simply to make it look like he was doing more to seek treatment than he actually was, I don’t know. But it made it very hard to believe anything he wrote. He hadn’t seen a urologist; he had seen a urologist. He would have to wait a long time to see one; no, he had already seen two! The docs had refused to do any tests; no, they had already run the tests. Etc..

I am actually quite glad that the potential for injuries is being taken more seriously now than in the past. I used to warn new guys all the fraking time! “Be careful, don’t break your penis!”

But saying stuff like:

Originally Posted by Owen33
… guys who’ve had damage from PE. Possibly more than those who gained at all…

Does more harm than good in my opinion. It is like the movie Reefer Madness! The warnings and claims were so over board that people decided that their was no danger at all!


Running a Massive Co-Front.

Originally Posted by man-of-10

The only permanent injury I have ever caused was a tiny burst vein. The thing is I did it from excess and aggressive masturbation when I was around 10 (I had just discovered it(:) . It now simply looks like a freckle on the top of my shaft.

Wow, I have a tiny freckle on my glans; always wondered what the hell that was.


Starting stats: Feb 08: [7.3 BPEL * 4.9? EG]----Now: [8.00 BPEL * 5.1-5.2 EG]------GOAL: [8 NBPEL * 6 EG]

Perception is reality.

Originally Posted by Owen33
…..
@ Marinera

“But, basing on your post, it seems that this point can’t have any proof. We just have to believe to your words, like a dogma.”

I see what you mean. I would be thinking the same in your position. See what I wrote above to Thunder.
…….


That’s a good statement. So you can see our point of view, we try to see yours. Now, we have to search for something we can call ‘reliable data’ and big part of the job will be done.

Originally Posted by Owen33
…..

“Have you noticed that many of this people adamantly persuaded that they got a permanent injury never have gone to an urologist? Have you ever been touched by the suspect that some of them could have [hypochondria]? An inquirying and not preconceived mind should consider all odds, right?”

Definitely. I’m sure even when someone has an injury, the mental anxienty is enough to make their state worse and in fact unclear. But still I think a large part is organic or physical. Bear in mind that visiting a normal urogist is not likely to get you far. Yataghan50 visited 7 urologists (I think) and got no help, but eventually had his problem corrected by someone from a different field. OsQ as well. I have read about a lot of people with exactly the same experience.


Ok, pardon me if I notice a double perspective from you here: when an urologist claims that PE is dangerous, you believe his words are gold; when an urologist says PE hasn’t caused any harm, than he doesn’t know a thing.

Now, about Yataghan50 :

Originally Posted by Yataghan50
SUCCESS

Ok I don’t want to curse myself, but I had the vein embolised today, and everything seems good. …..

P.E didn't cause my problem. ……..


Yataghan50 - Plea for help
(emphasis added)

About Osq:

Originally Posted by OsQ
…………I had the venous leak for a long time, I can remember it at least from when I was 12-13……


(emphasis added)
OsQ - I have a venous leak, I’m going to have it fixed by an interventional radiologist.

They are not example of injuries caused by PE. What I meant is : if you have an injury caused by PE, an urologist will almost certainly detect. If he doesn’t detect, is very very likely that you don’t have any injury related to PE.

I’m glad that you admit that at least some people who claim that had permanent injuries caused by PE have just a psychological issue - not saying that they are crazy, but anxiety is playing them a bad trick, it DOES happens.

And you previously admitted that some of those who claim permanent injury from PE are trolls.

Now, what I’m trying to figure out, is a realistic number of people who had permanent injury that for sure was caused by PE. There are about 25,000 active members here. If you can find 10 people that undoubtely had permanent injury caused by (not extreme) PE, it would be a 1 on 2,500 incidence.

I’ll give you that a fraction of posters can be reliable enough, for the better or the worse, and will say that the incidence is realistically ten times higher : 1 on 250. Fair enough? But show me the proofs now.

I don’t want to drag this any more than necessary but I don’t want to seem like I’m avoiding replying either so here goes a bare minimum from me.

“Ok, pardon me if I notice a double perspective from you here: when an urologist claims that PE is dangerous, you believe his words are gold; when an urologist says PE hasn’t caused any harm, than he doesn’t know a thing.”

It depends on the level of the urologist. Low level guys know close to nothing about penile disorders so they resort to telling people they’re okay and that the problem is psychological. It’s a common experience.

I am well aware that Yataghan’s and OsQ’s problem was not PE related. In fact I was surprised to see them listed in the Warning to Newbies thread for the same reason.

“What I meant is : if you have an injury caused by PE, an urologist will almost certainly detect. If he doesn’t detect, is very very likely that you don’t have any injury related to PE.”

This is so not true. This is your guesswork. A leak is a leak, period. Peyronie’s is Peyronie’s. A penile fracture is a penile fracture. Fibrosis is fibrosis. They have equal chance of showing up on the scans irrespective of their origin.

To answer your final challenge directed to me. Look…

Cases of mental ED exist but they can only go on for so long… A short period of time after a real injury. Because they will soon experience morning wood and a good reflexogenic response. Reflexogenic response cannot be blocked unless you are scared as hell, and trust me, six months into ED you don’t have adrenaline spikes anymore. So some people experience such ED (they are probably more common since the Warning to Newbies thread appeared) but they can only be short term. If you think otherwise, I encourage you to provide me with what you think are cases of mental ED.

I believe trolls exist too but have not seen much of them either. If I follow your logic, may I ask you to show me the proof now?

The bottom line is this though: it would take too much of my time and effort to provide you with significant statistical proof. It may be impossible altogether. What I say is a reflection of my living in the injury world for several months though. I will post a couple of links and let the people decide for themselves how real the whole thing is or isn’t.

If I put the burden of proof on you and ask you to provide me with proof of guys who had permanent gains of over 0.5 inch in girth with no maintainance, would you be able to comply? Base girth does not count as you don’t fuck with your fatpad (I hope). You might as well consider this a standing offer: for every person that had such gain, I will provide you with someone injured. I really hope I’m wrong here.

Originally Posted by Owen33

“Ok, pardon me if I notice a double perspective from you here: when an urologist claims that PE is dangerous, you believe his words are gold; when an urologist says PE hasn’t caused any harm, than he doesn’t know a thing.”

It depends on the level of the urologist. Low level guys know close to nothing about penile disorders so they resort to telling people they’re okay and that the problem is psychological. It’s a common experience.
….


So the urologists that agree with your fears are ‘high level’, those who disprove your fears are ‘low level’.Double perspective.

Originally Posted by Owen33

I am well aware that Yataghan’s and OsQ’s problem was not PE related. In fact I was surprised to see them listed in the Warning to Newbies thread for the same reason.


If you were aware, why you cited them? Are you trying to confond things?

Originally Posted by Owen33

“What I meant is : if you have an injury caused by PE, an urologist will almost certainly detect. If he doesn’t detect, is very very likely that you don’t have any injury related to PE.”

This is so not true. This is your guesswork. A leak is a leak, period. Peyronie’s is Peyronie’s. A penile fracture is a penile fracture. Fibrosis is fibrosis. They have equal chance of showing up on the scans irrespective of their origin.
…….


Yes, it is my guesswork that an urologist will be, in most of cases, able to understand if your penis is permanently broken or not. You have the adverse guesswork. People can decide which of the two makes more sense.

Originally Posted by Owen33
……..
Cases of mental ED exist but they can only go on for so long… A short period of time after a real injury. Because they will soon experience morning wood and a good reflexogenic response. Reflexogenic response cannot be blocked unless you are scared as hell, and trust me, six months into ED you don’t have adrenaline spikes anymore.
…..


And how long is that ‘so long’? Provide backup of what you are saying please.

FYI, people who have ‘mental ED’ believe they are ill even if they have morning woods.

Originally Posted by Owen33

I believe trolls exist too but have not seen much of them either. If I follow your logic, may I ask you to show me the proof now?
…….


The proof of what? That trolls do exists?

Originally Posted by Owen33
… What I say is a reflection of my living in the injury world for several months though. ……


That’s what vets here are suggesting, actually. I tend to believe the same.

Originally Posted by Owen33
……..
If I put the burden of proof on you and ask you to provide me with proof of guys who had permanent gains of over 0.5 inch in girth with no maintainance, would you be able to comply? Base girth does not count as you don’t fuck with your fatpad (I hope). You might as well consider this a standing offer: for every person that had such gain, I will provide you with someone injured. I really hope I’m wrong here.


I can’t understand which connection do exists between permanent gains (and why over 1/2”?) and permanent injury? And why no maintainance? This kind of arguments is what makes your posts…hmm.. strange, let’s say. It seem you do want to raise confusion, instead than searching the truth.

This is pointless.

What would you say if it turned out these “urologists who agree with the person’s fears” were actually the ones that published more articles, got more awards, present a bigger authority in the medical world and earn more money? Guess what… that happens to be the case.

What I’m saying is not guesswork, oh no. Yours admitedly is. Diagnosis can be a bitch. For quick examples see members jtmorgan10 and portland. Nothing shown on tests. Both obviously real. To quote an ED specialist on something that is a common PE injury: “Unfortunately in the majority of these cases there is no real diagnostic means available” There you go. You were wrong.

Mental ED and trolls. Look man you brought them in. I believe that such cases exist and admit them as a possibility, but you can’t ask me to give you “backup” when talking about them, because you were the one bringing them in in the first place!!! In my research up to know (it is not really research just surfing) I have only counted in cases that I considered impossible to falsify. You give me examples of mental ED or trolls and I will comment afterwards if they were indeed real or not.

“I can’t understand which connection do exists between permanent gains (and why over 1/2”?) and permanent injury? And why no maintainance?”

The connection is this: you asked me to provide proof of permanent injury. To show you how difficult that can be I asked you to provide proof of permanenet gains of more 0.5 inch girth (because only such gains I consider relevant and worth the effort). I can find about 20 seriously injured people in about 20 minute search. Obviously to give you **statistically relevant** proof I would have to search for hours or days. I can not spend so much time doing that, sorry (besides it is more than questionable what would I find on commercial forums).

I hope this is the last from me on this. The payoff/effort ratio is getting way too low.

Originally Posted by Owen33
This is pointless.

What would you say if it turned out these “urologists who agree with the person’s fears” were actually the ones that published more articles, got more awards, present a bigger authority in the medical world and earn more money? Guess what… that happens to be the case.
……


If, if, if ….start carrying some backup, please. You keep repeating unsupported things. And yes, I do agree that THIS is pointless.

Originally Posted by Owen33
…..
What I’m saying is not guesswork, oh no. Yours admitedly is.
…..


You are saying that there are permanent injuries caused by PE, you have no proofs. The guesswork is yours. More precisely, it is a preconceived idea. When diagnosis shows that there isn’t any illness, than ‘diagnosis can be a bictch’. You keep repeating this statement.

Originally Posted by Owen33
……………..
Mental ED and trolls. Look man you brought them in. ….


Nope. You started speaking of trolls
Owen33 - Jelqing has destroyed my life A warning..
I spoke about hypochondriasis. And you agreed that there are such cases.

Originally Posted by Owen33
…..
you asked me to provide proof of permanent injury. To show you how difficult that can be I asked you to provide proof of permanenet gains of more 0.5 inch girth (because only such gains I consider relevant and worth the effort). ….


First of, this is a false comparison: an urologist can’t say if gains are permanent or not. But an urologist can say if your penis is broken permanently, in most of cases - the point is, you just want to refute this fact.

Second, if you want to know how many gained 0.5” that stay there without maintenaince, start a thread and ask There isn’t any secret or impossibility. But I can’t see how that can confirm that there are multitude of hidden dudes that broke their penis through PE, so you are just mixing two different topics.

Originally Posted by Owen33
…..
…I can find about 20 seriously injured people in about 20 minute search. ….


Find any amount of people that, without any doubt, broke their penis through PE. You haven’t found one yet. I’m interested in finding some reliable data, not disproving your ideas. But don’t ask us to spread around your unfounded fears - you’re entitled to have those if you like, but pretending that all other people have them, that’s a bit too much.


Last edited by marinera : 05-09-2010 at .

Umm, I’ve been clamping for a couple days now and my flaccid is longer and thicker while during rest. Good PI’s. This shit works. At least for me and some others.,..

I’ll add that I had somewhat of a injury about 4 years ago when I was manual stretching (I had slight pain whenever I stretched out on my dick on the right side of my cock, must have broke/overstretched a nerve) and my dick returned to normal (no pain) a couple days later. I’ve also expierneced in my newbie days lig pops, etc. Time to clamp. :)


Last edited by LoveMachine : 05-09-2010 at .

Originally Posted by Owen33

<snip>To quote an ED specialist on something that is a common PE injury: “Unfortunately in the majority of these cases there is no real diagnostic means available” There you go. You were wrong.

<snip>

Conveniently, you quote an unnamed ED specialist” to back up your point, and triumphantly declare “There you go. You were wrong.”

I would think that with very little additional effort, you could provide a citation for this specialist, and this quote. Once again, you fail to do so.

Nine out of ten experts agree that 80% of statistics are made up on the spot.


For Lampwick, becoming hung like a donkey was the result of a total commitment.

All right guys we need some wise conclusion from all of this in contrast to doing pointless statements.There are for sure a big number of people who broke up their dicks because of not proper and unsafe PE, that`s for sure.Im one of them and I can give big numbers (count for sure in hundreds examples of people who have injured themself permanently,many PE boards combine together gave me really big number of examples)

But in all of this Im not against PE, if something somehow would cure my penis I would be doing it again but being now 1000 % smarter and would have posters everywhere when I would be PE`ing “Safe first” or something other really smart here.Because when you injure yourself due PE your life change instantly.

I was visiting good experts one, really good urologist and when they told you all the time that it is everything all right with your unit and there is no sign of problem,one said “There is something hard there but it is not Peyronie’s disease you can go and it willl heal with time…” what of course not happend and you know that it is not your real dick anymore,that`s really confusing.

There happen people who are extremely mad on PE and all things with it connected cause when they repeat all the time that PE broke their units they even start believe in that.And I know for sure that it is not PE what broke my dick but rather I myself doing it wrong way.

So my point is like everywhere last months Im looking for some solutions cause all the time when I found some people to report good results in healing using some kind of treatment I see little hope there, Im trying this approach, but I see that only good solution might be only surgery for me.

Originally Posted by Walgart
…There are for sure a big number of people who broke up their dicks because of not proper and unsafe PE, that`s for sure…


Hell, no, that’s not for sure. I don’t see this ‘big number of people’. PE can be dangerous if you do it the wrong way. But still if you it in a improper way, the chance to ‘broke up’ your dick permanently are very very low - still I have to hear of a convincing case.

About your case Walgart, I appreciate that you admit that PE hasn’t caused your problems; but still you seem to go in help of this unbased claim ‘PE can easily cause permanent injury’. So I think your case is emblematic of what I’m pointing to, because I’ve read your threads and it is impossible for me to understand what kind of injury you have, what could have caused that:

Originally Posted by Walgart
Hello!
I wanted improve my sex life (increase libido and erection quality) and I used knowledge
From the net, but actually because of my stupidity I made it worse.
My problem now is that as I think after prolonged and excessive use of supplements at start
Testosterone boosters yohimbe,tongkat ali and further after reading the book “The hardness
Factor by” Dr. Steven Lamm - L-arginine,pycnogenol,red wine, grape seed extract,ginkgo
Biloba I developed some problems.I’m not a profesionallist and I can`t not accurately
Identify it.
My symptoms now are that I don`t have now morning wood and erection are not full erection
(Glans is soft)
My shaft has changed some veins appeared on it which are visible.
Penis enlargement excesses are almost impossible for me now.My unit is in quite big flaccid
State all the time ( I have now unusual libido and the most important I feel some strange
Kind of pressure in groin area)
After reading information on the net and new researches I realize that after excessive use of
Supplemments testoterone boosters and AAKG(very high doses up to 10 g a day) I might suffer
From prostatitis or other prostate problems.I have symptoms like light burning
Urination,frequent urination,multiple nocturia.
Therefore, I am convinced that the suffering due to prostate problems.I’m going do doc soon
And now I’m looking for the best way of treatment best methods for treatment of this and of
Course the most important for me is recovery of my erection quality.
Please some wise advice.
Regards!


Difficulty in erection becuse of prostate problems.

and, whatever it is, I think the basic problems are related to anxiety/psychological issue.

Risk of bad PE are: broken blood vessels (not venous leakage, there isn't any f****ng proof that PE can cause venous leakage), torn tunica albuginea, nerve damages, torn suspensory ligaments. All of them are very unlikey and none of them has any appreciable oddity to be permanent.

Originally Posted by Lampwick
Conveniently, you quote an unnamed ED specialist” to back up your point, and triumphantly declare “There you go. You were wrong.”

I would think that with very little additional effort, you could provide a citation for this specialist, and this quote. Once again, you fail to do so.


I was just waiting for this. http://www.issm.info/v4/data/issmlist/digest16.asp. Read what dr. Porst says. You are free to google his professional background. Note how difficult it is to establish a diagonsis. A small and common PE injury like soft glans… and they have no idea what it is.

Personally I find it obvious you guys are just intent on “proving” me wrong for some reason. I believe that I sound credible enough and got a lot of people rethinking this. I am not selling anything nor have I shown any agenda.

Marinera you are losing track of our communication. You would need to start reading threads more carefully or more times.

“Find any amount of people that, without any doubt, broke their penis through PE. You haven’t found one yet.”

Deeppurple9, portland, jtmorgan10, MrNilsen, daysdrag, the whole of the Firm Flaccid thread. That should get you started.

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