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Girth theory: Pumping vs. clamping

:)

It’s my Republican look. I’m trying it out.

I may have to go retro soon, though.


Before: I'd like to show you something I'm very proud of, but you'll have to move real close.

After: I\'d like to show you something I\'m very proud of, but you guys in the front row will have to stand back.

God gave men both a penis and a brain, but unfortunately not enough blood supply to run both at the same time. - Robin Williams (:

Originally Posted by mgus
Here is one way to think about increasing pressure without adding blood - you kegel, you contract the muscles at the bottom, and clench off and kind of press the existing amount of blood at the base upwards. Then of course tissues widen and whatnot, and if the venules aren’t letting out the blood fast enough, more blood is allowed into the tissues at the base - then you kegel and press the newly entered blood upwards, venules aren’t letting out fast enough etc etc.

No idea if that is the case, but it might be a mechanism to explain increasing pressure without adding more blood - the next batch of blood is added after the contraction is released. Did I get you right?


In the study I quoted, the penis of the volunteers was considered fully erect at a 90 degree angle. At that point, the artificial filling was stopped. They considered this to be peak erection in these individuals. These individuals did not have venous leaks (a precondition for being part of the study). If you look at the pressure tracing within the cavernosa in the picture attached to post #465, you’ll see that after they filled the penis, the pressure remains well above a normal blood pressure (specifically the upper number; systolic pressure which is normally about 120 mm Hg) throughout the entire tracing. When the pressure in the cavernosa is greater than the blood pressure, new blood cannot enter the cavernosa. The changes in the peak erect penis with Kegels is the result of the compression of the IC muscles around the cavernosa within the pelvis (the unexposed penis) and the translocation of blood into the exposed penis. This is reflected in the increase in pressure (as seen on the lower tracing) with each contraction (as seen on the upper tracing). We see the penis rise with each contraction as a result of the pressure rise. When the Kegel is released, the pressure difference between the exposed penis and the unexposed penis is relieved as the tranlocated blood returns towards the pelvis. Since cavernosa pressure does not drop below systolic blood pressure, this all would occur without the input of new blood.

I agree that at levels of erection when the pressure in the cavernosa is lower than blood pressure, each contraction would also force blood from the root towards the exposed penis. However unlike the peak erect state, more blood can enter the unexposed penis when the Kegel is released because cavernosa pressure falls below that of the blood entering the penis.

I hope this is clear.

Originally Posted by mgus
Actually, it’s ignoranti.

Is it?

From urbandictionnary.com

I am a foreigner here, but that is the first find if you google ‘ignorati’.


1. Ignorati 6 thumbs up

Wealthy, elite, and painfully ignorant college students of America. Typically members of a Fraternity or Sorority, often at one of the Ivy League schools. They are usually unaware of their own privelege, nor do they have empathy for the misfortune of others. In fact, they refuse to acknowledge or take responsibility for causing anyone’s problems in the world. They are usually Republicans, but there are plenty of Democrats who qualify for the title as well. See also: vapid, preppie, snobs, evangelicals.

The Ignorati were having a party at the Sigma Alpha Epsilon house, where they gathered to watch the latest Dane Cook video on their 60” plasma TV(s).

I got into an argument with this Ignorati. He was claiming Blondie invented Rap music.

IgnoraNti is from latin ‘ignorare’, not know, neglect, ‘ignorans’, not knowing, and ignoranti, those who don’t know.

I am neither a latin nor an english teacher, but I must say that I dislike the way you are treating Xenolith (not knowing what happened in the past, but that was before my time or without my involment).


Later - ttt

Originally Posted by ThunderSS
Hmmmm.sounds like our Congress t3.

:) .


Later - ttt

I’m sorry to get in the way,

As one who wants girth and length (who doesn’t?),
Can I start clamping? Will it heart any future length gains?
I need(must) to get more girth, what advice can you give me?

Thanks.


Conquering my goals.

Originally Posted by OS_q
I’m sorry to get in the way,

As one who wants girth and length (who doesn’t?),
Can I start clamping? Will it heart any future length gains?
I need(must) to get more girth, what advice can you give me?

Thanks.


The tunica has two layers, an inner layer with circumstantially oriented fibers and an outer layer with longitudinally oriented fibers. It is my belief that a larger length in circumferential fibers (girth) through clamping (and other means as well) will not adversely affect the ability to elongate the tunica using longitudinal tunica stretch exercises (hanging, v- and a-stretches, etc.). I say this because I believe that even if you develop a “stronger” inner layer with greater collagen fibers diameter there is the ability for “splitting” of the fiber bundles in this layer allowing the inner layer to expand longitudinally as the outer layer is enhanced by length exercises.

Just opinion from studying the text and papers on the tunica anatomy.

I suggest you search the clampers forum for guidance on the method, dangers and successes. BTW, if you haven’t conditioned your penis with at least 3 months of the Newbie routines, I wouldn’t suggest that you begin a clamping routine.

I agree with pudendum although many suggest to start with length exercises.

One compromise is hanging at different angles which has a good chance to produce quite amazing base girth while you are gaining length. Once you achieved your length goal I clamping is probably the best routine.


Later - ttt

pudendum,

In another thread, there was a link to study where they’d examined the tunica in 15-20 corpses or so. For most people, the tunica consisted of 2 layers, for a few of 3 and for a few of only 1 layer (yes, it beats me too how that could work, but then again I didn’t do the study). Search for “layer” and “cadaver” or something like that.

Edit: Tunica Differences


regards, mgus

Taped onto the dashboard of a car at a junkyard, I once found the following: "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." The car was crashed.

Primary goal: To have an EQ above average (i.e. streetsmart, compassionate about life and happy) Secondary goal: to make an anagram of my signature denoting how I feel about my gains


Last edited by mgus : 01-20-2008 at .

Originally Posted by ticktickticker
I have been thinking about this as well. Never tried though. Mainly because I am afraid that pumping wouldn’t add much (except tissue swelling ( edema / doughnut effect.

Also, clamping shuts down the connection between penis and rest of circulation - a potential disadvantage.


Later - ttt

Originally Posted by mgus
pudendum,

In another thread, there was a link to study where they’d examined the tunica in 15-20 corpses or so. For most people, the tunica consisted of 2 layers, for a few of 3 and for a few of only 1 layer (yes, it beats me too how that could work, but then again I didn’t do the study). Search for “layer” and “cadaver” or something like that.

Edit: Tunica Differences

mgus - I just left a post (#17) on another thread citing this paper and how they think the 1 or 3 layers orientation affects erection quality:
ticktickticker - Girth theory: glans and corpus cavernosum.

What’s interesting is this same group recently published an article showing that when they removed the tunica covering portions of the cavernosa in dogs had no effect on cavernosa and glans pressure during erection when compared to dogs with intact tunica. They go on to say:

Quote
“The results of the study seem to support the suggestion that the TA does not play an essential role in the erectile mechanism. This may be derived from the fact that the non TA-covered areas of the CC and CS recorded pressure values in the flaccid and erectile phases similar to those of the TA-covered areas and control animals. Other evidence doubting the role of the TA in the erectile phase is that although the CS is less supported by the thin TA of one layer, the pressure of both the CC and CS is similar in both the flaccid and erectile phases. Similarly, the glans penis, though uncovered with TA, revealed a pressure during the flaccid and erectile phases, which was similar to that of the CS. The TA seems to constitute a supportive stocking to the CC and CS. The circular and longitudinal arrangement of the TA collagen
fibers appears to lend the TA the adaptability to change in accordance with the increased length and girth of penis during erection.

In conclusion, the TA seems to act as a cover to the corporal tissue. Its absence did not cause a change of the intracorporal pressure in the flaccid or erectile phases. The pressure in the TA-covered corpora was similar to that of the uncovered areas. The GP, though not covered by TA, has a pressure in the flaccid and erection phases similar to the corporal pressure. The TA collagen fibers presumably act not only to shape the penile shaft but may also assist in maintaining the intracorporal pressure elevated during erection.”

Shafik A. Role of tunica albuginea in erection: is it a dynamic or a static role? Archives of Andrology, 52 (2006) 81–86.

This report kinda knocks my socks off. I don’t know what to make of it. The tunica doesn’t affect cavernosa pressure? It plays a static role in erection? Whoa!!

This is the same group who did the study that mravg presented regarding the affects of Kegels on cavernosa pressure and didn’t find any changes (post #226) which is disputed in another earlier study that showed significant cavernosa pressure changes with Kegels (see post #465).

Originally Posted by mgus
pudendum,

In another thread, there was a link to study where they’d examined the tunica in 15-20 corpses or so. For most people, the tunica consisted of 2 layers, for a few of 3 and for a few of only 1 layer (yes, it beats me too how that could work, but then again I didn’t do the study). Search for “layer” and “cadaver” or something like that.

Edit: Tunica Differences

mgus - Caught your edit after I posted. Interesting thread. Lot of guys who hadn’t gained though they had the 3 layers, though this orientation only made up about 21% of the 20 cadavers they studied (10 adults and 10 neonates; baby’s born dead). This is a relatively small study so the number of guys with single, double and triple layered tunicas may vary somewhat from their numbers.

Originally Posted by pudendum
Mgus - I just left a post (#17) on another thread citing this paper and how they think the 1 or 3 layers orientation affects erection quality:
Ticktickticker - Girth theory: glans and corpus cavernosum.

What’s interesting is this same group recently published an article showing that when they removed the tunica covering portions of the cavernosa in dogs had no effect on cavernosa and glans pressure during erection when compared to dogs with intact tunica. They go on to say:This report kinda knocks my socks off. I don’t know what to make of it. The tunica doesn’t affect cavernosa pressure? It plays a static role in erection? Whoa!!

This is the same group who did the study that mravg presented regarding the affects of Kegels on cavernosa pressure and didn’t find any changes (post #226) which is disputed in another earlier study that showed significant cavernosa pressure changes with Kegels (see post #465).

Very interesting.

In humans ( I am one) I would guesstimate that glans pressure is below cavernous pressure during all phases of erection incl. Ejaculation.

Other than that, even that the tunica is not relevant for the pressure tracing doesn’t surprise me that much - it’s the vessel/sinusoid walls like in other systems.

However, the tunica remains one major obstacle to our pe efforts.


Later - ttt

Originally Posted by ticktickticker
Very interesting.

In humans ( I am one) I would guesstimate that glans pressure is below cavernous pressure during all phases of erection incl. Ejaculation.

Other than that, even that the tunica is not relevant for the pressure tracing doesn’t surprise me that much - it’s the vessel/sinusoid walls like in other systems.

However, the tunica remains one major obstacle to our pe efforts.


In the rat (some of may be rats in our lives, but I guess real rats may be different from humans), this may not be true. In the Girth theory: glans and corpus cavernosum. thread (#17), I posted a study that showed very high CS pressures with BS muscle contraction I would bet that the pressures in the human are also above systolic blood pressure (suprasystolic), but even at full erection there is a venous leak in the CS that probably protects the urethra from being compressed and ejaculation difficult.

This same muscle group is the one that milks the bulb of the penis to force semen out at ejaculation. So it would appear that even though the CS pressure should rise at the same time, ejaculation continues. In my mind the expansion of the single layer higher elastic fiber tunica surrounding the CS must play a role in allowing the urethra to remain open.

As usual, I was thinking…

If an UNLOADED tunica is more easily stretched than a loaded one, then maybe we (pumpers) have it wrong. Perhaps it is better to pump without a max erection? It will allow distortional stress from the vacuum force, while not fully loading the tunica.

I think this concept (that its more effective fully erect) came mostly from observation that you get less edema. However, for post surgical guys, who’s doctors put them on the pump, I doubt that they are getting max erections in the tube. Many of these guys end up with gains that we not attributable to the surgery…hummmm. :-k

Perhaps what we held as a “given” has been counterproductive?

I am going to experiment with this concept.

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