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Girth theory: Pumping vs. clamping

Very interesting sparkyx.

I like it that we are getting away from the old “dogmas” of PE (such as LOT and many others).


Later - ttt

Originally Posted by sparkyx
As usual, I was thinking…

If an UNLOADED tunica is more easily stretched than a loaded one, then maybe we (pumpers) have it wrong. Perhaps it is better to pump without a max erection? It will allow distortional stress from the vacuum force, while not fully loading the tunica.


I’ve believed for a long time that one will get better girth gains if one does not load the tunica lengthwise at the same time (mgus - Pressure in the penis) - thought experiment:

Take a dishrag (material that is flexible in all directions) and hold it out in front of you - hands on left and right side, and pull outwards. Note elongation. Now have a friend grab the top and bottom at the same time, and pull (both of you) - the rag will not elongate as far now that some of the sideways slack is taken into use when pulled on up-down.

I don’t own a pump, but I’d venture that for max girth gains, an overly short tube - fat and short - would be the way to go.


regards, mgus

Taped onto the dashboard of a car at a junkyard, I once found the following: "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." The car was crashed.

Primary goal: To have an EQ above average (i.e. streetsmart, compassionate about life and happy) Secondary goal: to make an anagram of my signature denoting how I feel about my gains

Originally Posted by ticktickticker
Very interesting sparkyx.

I like it that we are getting away from the old “dogmas” of PE (such as LOT and many others).

Its only good if we are getting away from USELESS dogmas. We have to make sure we don’t throw out the “baby with the bathwater”.

More accurately, its good to EXAMINE all the old dogmas, and see if they are effective or not.

As far as pumping goes at what rate of lower erection would suffice? Also wouldn’t the same concept go for clamping? From my experience of lower erection rate pumping it was easier to obtain donuts and faux girth(puffiness). When I pump at full erection and jelq afterwards, I am rock hard and larger with very,very little puffiness when I am done.


Started 5.5 x 4.5 erect Length and Girth Goal 7 x 6.5 erect Length and Girth

Currently 5.9 x 5.5 erect Length,Girth and going !

Originally Posted by Lil J76
As far as pumping goes at what rate of lower erection would suffice? Also wouldn’t the same concept go for clamping? From my experience of lower erection rate pumping it was easier to obtain donuts and faux girth(puffiness). When I pump at full erection and jelq afterwards, I am rock hard and larger with very,very little puffiness when I am done.

Right, thats been the conventional wisdom. I think its important to avoid edema, so you would have to modify either time or vacuum level or both.

I am proposing trying this based on this thread. The thread states that high internal pressures minimize the ability to distort the tunica. Based on that statement, it stands to reason that lower erection level pumping should be more effective…which goes against standard pumping traditions.

So, I am personally going to experiment with it, and I was wondering if anyone else has used lower erection level pumping and has SEEN GAINS FROM IT.

Part of what I mentioned is post surgery for enlargement, many protocols include pumping for rehab. I speculated that I doubt most post surgical patients will get full erections during their pumping. Also, many of them see gains that are not accounted for by their surguries, so I wonder if there isn’t some truth to lower erection pumping.

HOWEVER, that last paragraph has a few critical statements that are hearsay and assumptions…so there may be no validity at all to it.

What level of erection? Its hard to say, just avoid max level erection. Anything that allows some slack in the tunica, should make distorting it more effective. Ideally, I’m thinking at lower levels of erection, its more like hanging, but using a vacuum, and you have the added benefit of hanging in a transverse direction to also increase girth.

Normally I use 3 in hg, but really go for a max erection. I use 3 in hg, because if I go high, I start to get edema and red spots.

Today, I used a partial erection and 4 in hg. After two 5 minute sets, no red spots, and a small amount of edema in the circ scar area. I didn’t achieve the same length of stretch in the tube as I normally do with full erection and 3 in hg, but I’m looking for total results, not just in the tube reaction.

Next time I may use a HTW on the circ area to minimize fluid. I may even go up to 5 in hg, as long as I can avoid edema.

I will be carefully watching EQ and PIs to determine if this is producing less trauma or increasing it. I will also be watching for decreasing EQ.

Theoretically, this should be less trauma on the tissues.

I’ll keep you guys informed.

My vision up to this point for how pumping works, is that pressure from your erection pushes on the tunica, and the vacuum reduces the normal atmospheric counterforce pushing inward, so that the net effect is more outward pressure on the tunica.

If you pump without an erection, however, what would you envision as the mechanism for growth?


Horny Bastard

It should be more similar to jelquing. I look at it like derangement of the tunica fibers. Like the wash rag example. If you were to put the rag in a frame that pulls on all sides evenly, it would make it more difficult to pull them apart, the tension causing strengthening of the “fabric”.

If you remove the tension from the fabric, its possible to pull on some areas of the threads and “derange” them from their normal relationship to the other threads more easily.

I’m thinking like that. That jelquing, because of the greater slack in the tunica “fabric” allows you to stress one area and cause more derangement. I’m thinking that with less tunica stress, perhaps the fibers are more susceptible to derangement from the expansion under less load.

Of course, this may be total nonsense :) … but what the hell, I’ll give it a few weeks.

Hell, I always thought exactly like you stated, but maybe it may actually be more effective with a less than maximally loaded tunica. Maybe its like a chinese finger trap…the harder you pull, the stronger it is. It becomes weaker as you “unload” it. So, maybe its something similar here.

The dish rag analogy is exactly what I have been thinking about regarding this flaccid girth exercise:

Flaccid girth exercise

It is under discussion, and I am sure it is not new, but I see it as compressing a slightly erect penis so as to produce tension laterally only, well mainly at least.


Sept. 4, '07: BPEL 6.875 inches, EG widest 5.25

Goal: Double digits

It might be appropriate to discuss some equations at this point.
When you put pressure inside a cylinder, it creates tension in the wall, in both the longitudinal direction and the circumferential direction.
The wall tension is twice as high in the circumferential direction (also called the hoop stress in the reference I found).
The equations are as follows:

σh = p d / 2 t

where

σh = hoop stress (MPa, psi)

p = internal pressure in the tube or cylinder (MPa, psi)

d = internal diameter of tube or cylinder (mm, in)

t = tube or cylinder wall thickness (mm, in)

And Longitudinally:

σl = p d / 4 t

where

σl = longitudinal stress (MPa, psi)


You can see that the second equation is just 1/2 of the first equation.

So what do you guys conclude from this?
When you put pressure inside your penis, you are stressing in both directions, but more girthwise than lengthwise. I think that is safe to assume even if our penises are not perfect cylinders.
But you still are applying lengthwise stress.
I also agree with the dish rag analogy, and that more girth stretching is possible if you minimize lengthwise stretching.
But, is it even possible to stretch in only the girth, but not the length direction? If you could figure out how to do that, that might be the key to girth gains!

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/s…tube-d_948.html






Horny Bastard

Originally Posted by mravg
My vision up to this point for how pumping works, is that pressure from your erection pushes on the tunica, and the vacuum reduces the normal atmospheric counterforce pushing inward, so that the net effect is more outward pressure on the tunica.
If you pump without an erection, however, what would you envision as the mechanism for growth?

I agree with mravg. Also, remember, vacuum is vacuum. Changing the size of the tube isn’t going to do shit. Because you have a shorter tube, it isn’t going to apply less “length vacuum”.


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No, but if the tube is short enough that the penis won’t really have a chance to elongate very much at all, then not much lengthwise stress can be applied?

Mind you, I’m being theoretical here, I’ve never pumped.

mravg: obends are pretty much doing that - targeting girth without hitting length at all.


regards, mgus

Taped onto the dashboard of a car at a junkyard, I once found the following: "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." The car was crashed.

Primary goal: To have an EQ above average (i.e. streetsmart, compassionate about life and happy) Secondary goal: to make an anagram of my signature denoting how I feel about my gains

Originally Posted by mgus

mravg: obends are pretty much doing that - targeting girth without hitting length at all.

Yes good point!


Horny Bastard

Originally Posted by mravg
It might be appropriate to discuss some equations at this point.
When you put pressure inside a cylinder, it creates tension in the wall, in both the longitudinal direction and the circumferential direction.
The wall tension is twice as high in the circumferential direction (also called the hoop stress in the reference I found).
The equations are as follows:

σh = p d / 2 t

where

σh = hoop stress (MPa, psi)

p = internal pressure in the tube or cylinder (MPa, psi)

d = internal diameter of tube or cylinder (mm, in)

t = tube or cylinder wall thickness (mm, in)

And Longitudinally:

σl = p d / 4 t

where

σl = longitudinal stress (MPa, psi)


You can see that the second equation is just 1/2 of the first equation.

So what do you guys conclude from this?
When you put pressure inside your penis, you are stressing in both directions, but more girthwise than lengthwise. I think that is safe to assume even if our penises are not perfect cylinders.
But you still are applying lengthwise stress.
I also agree with the dish rag analogy, and that more girth stretching is possible if you minimize lengthwise stretching.
But, is it even possible to stretch in only the girth, but not the length direction? If you could figure out how to do that, that might be the key to girth gains!

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/s…tube-d_948.html





What do I conclude? When it comes to math, I’m a dumbass! :)

I’ve stretched my brain as far as its going to stretch on this conceptualization, its time for some old fashioned “hands on”.

Look, I’ve been doing it the conventional way for years now,with very limited results… so what the hell, I’ll give the unconventional way for a while.

It wouldn’t be the first time the truth was counter-intuitive. I’ve done far crazier experiments, so I figure I don’t have a lot to lose to try it.

I’ll give you that it really doesn’t make sense to me that low erection pumping would be more effective, but like I said, I’ve had very limited results from the standard approach.

It never made sense to me that jelquing would be one of the most effective modes of PE either…but it is. Maybe this unloaded tunica concept has some real merit to it. If pure flat out force was the answer, it would have been simple…load up that dick and make it bigger, but its not that simple.

So, I’ll let you know.

Originally Posted by mgus
No, but if the tube is short enough that the penis won’t really have a chance to elongate very much at all, then not much lengthwise stress can be applied?

Mind you, I’m being theoretical here, I’ve never pumped.

mravg: obends are pretty much doing that - targeting girth without hitting length at all.

Yeah, if you have a tube that is as long as your erect cock is. I think the best thing for the guys wanting to figure this pumping thing out, is to get a pump. Then go into the theory.


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