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What Benefits does an ADS provide?

Originally Posted by rootsnatty
DomXZ, traditional extenders do not work based on stress relaxation, any extender with springs is primarily creep-based. I don’t have time to explain, headed to work, and I don’t know how to post a link, but if you go to my thread “My Stress Relaxation-based Traction Device in Action” I explain this to Austfred pretty early in the thread. And there are some good explanations about viscoelasticity in general. You are correct though, 20 minutes probably will not be long enough for most to make gains through stress relaxation-based methods.

I should’ve been clearer. Extender without any springs.

A simple question, if the aim is to stretch out and then break individual fibers why not stretch to your max length or weight and then cyclically stretch slightly more or cycle down and up to your max weight.

As I understand it this kind of cyclic strain causes fatigue much faster than constant stress at the same weight.

Originally Posted by capernicus1

A simple question, if the aim is to stretch out and then break individual fibers why not stretch to your max length or weight and then cyclically stretch slightly more or cycle down and up to your max weight.

As I understand it this kind of cyclic strain causes fatigue much faster than constant stress at the same weight.

Cap: An ADS is what becomes useful to negate the need for extra weight if techniques that stress the outer layers of the ligaments and then the predominant amount of time in a routine is returned to the full on hanging, stretching, whatever.

It doesn’t matter what stress tool your using. The secret is to diversify the stress application so the Divide and Concur principle can work. When done correctly an increase in hanging weight or stress level isn’t necessary very often at all. I’ve seen gains over a very long period of time without weight increases. Besides the diversification of stress on the ligs it becomes more important to apply a light weight between hanging sessions to prevent healing in the regressive state. This is where an ADS is useful as an insurance policy against plateau’s and what you find also is continuous gains because the ligs are lightly traumatized continually preventing the healing process to complete. During a day just the action of getting up from a chair will provide stress to the ligs and keep whatever healing the body is trying to accomplish from being completed. This presents weakened ligs to the stresses of the next hanging session which means continued gains. Same thing happens when you go down a flight of stairs. You’ll learn very quickly not to go down too fast as the kinetic energy will stress out the clamping or wrapping setup. Of course this only applies to a gravity dependent ADS :boogie:


09-2003 BPEL:6.0x5.5

11-2004 BPEL:8.25x6.25 . . 9+ by Spring is the goal AIR CLAMP

Now BPEL:8 5/8 x 6 5/8 PE Weights


Last edited by Monty: : 07-27-2014 at .

Capernicus, the reason why cyclic stretching, as in stretch-relax-stretch-relax-etc. over and over without holding a single stretch for a significant length of time, is not ideal is because cyclic stretching has been shown to be much more effective at strengthening/toughening connective tissue than deforming it. Cyclic stretching does not allow time for viscoelastic fluid expulsion to occur and therefore causes trauma but does not draw collagen fibers into enough of a tight, parallel formation to elicit the kind of microfailure we are after with PE or any kind of stretching where permanent elongation of tissue is desirable.

Note, however, that cyclic stretching is good to use briefly before traction to precondition tissue. Preconditioned tissues have always been shown to react much more favorably to traction.

Maranera, I agree with you about not using those silly words anymore except in the case of plastic deformation. All this term means is permanent elongation of tissue. And it has been observed in vivo using MRI and other imaging technologies.

Trauma, however, is exactly what we should be avoiding. Trauma = very bad, tougher connective tissues, even injuries. Also, when people talk about healing, I think what they really mean is remodeling. Perhaps that is a better word choice. Healing implies trauma has occurred and that the process of trauma-healing-trauma-healing is somehow desirable. It is definitely not!

Roots

Remodeling. Yeah. That sounds like the right word.

Originally Posted by rootsnatty
Capernicus, the reason why cyclic stretching, as in stretch-relax-stretch-relax-etc. over and over without holding a single stretch for a significant length of time, is not ideal is because cyclic stretching has been shown to be much more effective at strengthening/toughening connective tissue than deforming it. Cyclic stretching does not allow time for viscoelastic fluid expulsion to occur and therefore causes trauma but does not draw collagen fibers into enough of a tight, parallel formation to elicit the kind of microfailure we are after with PE or any kind of stretching where permanent elongation of tissue is desirable.

Roots

This is what I used to think but I’m having a hard time reconciling it with the large number of people who gain from hundreds of 3 sec jelqs and 30 sec stretches !

For clarity I’m not talking about cycling high weight which I can see would cause strengthening, also I’m sure I read that cyclic stretching increases collagenase production more than static, is this not a good thing ?

When you jelq, the penis remains expanded between one stroke and the other. At least it should. Beside that, jelqing is more on the ‘heavy load’ side of techniques. Probably shouldn’t be done from the beginning, for the exposed reasons. But it is such a wonderful exercise that you can’t avoid to advice. :)

Capernicus, holding a 30 second stretch is perfectly OK, that doesn’t qualify as cyclic stretching though. What cyclic stretching generally refers to is stretching to max stretch and immediately relaxing to no stretch, then repeating this process over and over. Almost like bouncing, as is the case with ballistic stretching, but not so dramatic. 30 seconds is not ideal, more time has always been shown to be better, but it will yield positive results. Also, at some point almost everyone stops gaining from short, manual stretches, whether we are talkig about stretching the penis or the tendons and fibrous joint capsules in your limbs - for long term PE one needs to find a way to increase relative stress as the tissue toughens, but, more importantly, implement adequate time.

And I’ve heard that too about colagenase, but in reference to ballistic stretching. The weakening factor created by the quantity of that enzyme that those forms of stretching produce must not be nearly enough to overcome the strengthening response to those types of repeated stretches. Another example, not directly related but of the same vein, when you do high intensity weightlifting your body dumps a lot of cortisol but you still can cause net muscle hypertrophy. PE is not, and should never be weightlifting, but I think this example goes to show that in many scenarios a single enzyme or hormone, even if operating contrary to your aims, will not necessarily mean success or failure.

Roots

Oh, and what Maranera said about jelqing is exactly why it is not really cyclic either.

Jelqs rock!!!

Originally Posted by rootsnatty
Capernicus, the reason why cyclic stretching, as in stretch-relax-stretch-relax-etc. over and over without holding a single stretch for a significant length of time, is not ideal is because cyclic stretching has been shown to be much more effective at strengthening/toughening connective tissue than deforming it. Cyclic stretching does not allow time for viscoelastic fluid expulsion to occur and therefore causes trauma but does not draw collagen fibers into enough of a tight, parallel formation to elicit the kind of microfailure we are after with PE or any kind of stretching where permanent elongation of tissue is desirable.

Note, however, that cyclic stretching is good to use briefly before traction to precondition tissue. Preconditioned tissues have always been shown to react much more favorably to traction.

Maranera, I agree with you about not using those silly words anymore except in the case of plastic deformation. All this term means is permanent elongation of tissue. And it has been observed in vivo using MRI and other imaging technologies.

Trauma, however, is exactly what we should be avoiding. Trauma = very bad, tougher connective tissues, even injuries. Also, when people talk about healing, I think what they really mean is remodeling. Perhaps that is a better word choice. Healing implies trauma has occurred and that the process of trauma-healing-trauma-healing is somehow desirable. It is definitely not!

Roots


So the issue is basically semantics? Trauma you want to consider is a overzealous term. I’ve always considered the accomplishment of Micro tears a low level form of trauma. You may be right, it certainly could be an inappropriate term if as the dictionary says: Word Origin & History “trauma” 1656 (implied in traumatic), “physical wound,” from Gk. trauma “wound,”

Now looking at a Thesaurus, it gives us another perspective. Synonyms: damage, disturbance, hurt, wound, strain, stress,

I guess it’s all in using what your used to. lol
I don’t want to get into arguments but everyone to their opinion. At least we’re in a free country, at least so far.

Now when it comes to the after affects of heavy hanging in which case I’m not sure we wouldn’t consider it trauma when turtling is a result. I wonder if we shouldn’t consider “fatigue” a trauma condition as well?

I kinda think of trauma as disturbance of a normal tissue condition. Obviously we don’t have open wounds, bleeding or discoloration but nonetheless a change in tissue structure is a change.

Oh whatever!


09-2003 BPEL:6.0x5.5

11-2004 BPEL:8.25x6.25 . . 9+ by Spring is the goal AIR CLAMP

Now BPEL:8 5/8 x 6 5/8 PE Weights

Trauma may refer to:

Injury, a physical wound to the body caused by an external source
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trauma

Not saying that other meanings are wrong. It is just, as fairly said, a matter of understanding each other.

Monty, I agree about the nature of words and language, but philosophy and philology aside, I think we need a common point of reference, and it would be nice if such a point was based off the language used in the study of tissue elongation.

You could say that when collagen fibers break individually this could be called a microtear just as easily as a microfailure. And you would not be wrong.

My problem with this language is twofold:

1) it is not the language used by the scientific community.

2) among many readers this language will conjure images of tears healing and tissue growing as a result of this (more damage = more growth), rather than tears accumulating, lessening a tissues structural integrity and immediate elasticity and preventing it from shrinking back to its original size.

In this instance and others I think the language could cause those new to PE or anyone else who doesn’t have a grasp of the mechanics actually involved to form the wrong ideas about what is important and how one actually makes progress. This could even compromise safety if one really took the more damage/trauma = more gains idea to heart. But you are right in that it is ALL really just semantics.

And if we don’t use new words how will Maranera, my Italian brother from the motherland, expand his English vocabulary?! ;)

Originally Posted by marinera
Remodeling. Yeah. That sounds like the right word.

Agreed. I plan on remodeling my penis. I am going to expand it out and and a second floor. Maybe even paint it.


12/11/2013 BPEL 5 3/4 NBPEL 5 1/16 BPFSL 6 1/16 NBPFSL 5, EG Base 5 EG Mid 4 7/8 EG Below Glans 4 3/4

11/02/15 BPEL 7 1/8”, BPFSL 8 1/16”, EG Mid 5 1/4 —- Goals BPEL 7 1/2”, NBPEL 6 1/2", BPFSL 9” Motivational Resources Wanted

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I know, discoloration is a bitch. :)

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