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What Benefits does an ADS provide?

I would like to add something about pumping. As a premise, I don’t think pumping is the best technique for permanent gains, for most of people. But there is for sure a percentage of people who gets permanent gains from it. So said, pumping is probably the oldest PE technique. I can remember vacuum pumps being advertised in popular magazines at least 30 years ago, while I think jelqing is born on the web. So I think there has been more experimenting with pumping than with any other PE technique.

Now, while it’s true that pumping is a different beast than stretching, that there are other tissues involved, etc., if one is interested just in gains, and wouldn’t mind a more or less severe ED most of the times (there are people like that here, and they are not a small minority), that wouldn’t make a difference : overworked or not, the penis will inflate under the vacuum, so if high pressure for short duration was the best for gains, that’s what expert pumpers would advice.

They do not, and if you write that in numbers, it will be good stuff to think about : even a newbie pumper will not have an injury (if you don’t count discoloration as an injury) pumping at 15hg for 15 minutes; I think even 20 hg for short duration wouldn’t cause an injury to most of people. Well, what pumpers who had gains suggest, is to pump at 5-6 hg vacuum. There are guys who like to go ‘hardocore’ with pumping not minding the insane fluid retention. They anyway, when asked, as far as I can remember, always suggest low pressure fot lont time, if you are interested in permanent gains.

Now, is that true for all the people? Probably not. Like in weigth lifting, there is the guy who puts on tons of muscle doing one set per week, another can train everyday without ever going overworked etc.; there is just too much variability in human things to say that anything holds true for everybody. We look at the trends. We know trends reading members’ posts - which is not controlled material, so to speak, neither a well built sample. We know these limitations. So we can’t have certain proof of anything. But if anecdotal reports seem consistent with what the research tells, than that is good sign.

Good point Maranera!

I gained a little girth from pumping which has appeared to stick around, although I have also been consistently jelqing a bit so that might account for cementing/maintaining the pumping gains. And I definitely NEVER exceeded a -5 vacuum. I can’t even imagine a -15 or -20 mm hg vacuum! Even -5 hurt sometimes, a -20 would explode my cock I think. Not to mention I don’t think I could get an erection at all for a day, maybe even days, afterwards! There’s remodeling, and there is a straight-up wrecking ball, that sounds like the latter.

It is both unfortunate and really amazing what this community is. We are basically going into this blind when it comes to empirical facts, all we can do is apply indirect empirical evidence and compare it to anecdotal evidence to come to some kind of individual understanding, as Maranera says. But what that means is that PE is much more of an art than a science, and it’s modern incarnation is still so new that we are all pioneers. And that is really cool.

Modern weightlifting was like this from the early 1900’s through the 30’s or 40’s and now it is being directly researched all the time. I don’t know if PE will ever appeal to more than a secretive, fringe community, but who knows what the future might bring as these things are shown anecdotally to work over and over, just as lifting weights has been. I imagine scientifically proven PE would be quite the cash-cow, like Enzyte that actually works.

Marinara wished to see scientific evidence of healing cycles and their validity. There are many sites that reveal the 4 phases of healing.
The one that brought me to a clear understanding of these 4 phases was a dissertation about Prolotherapy. This is a medical procedure that artificially starts the healing process when an abnormal recuperation has taken place such as a sprained ankle where the ligaments and tendons don’t heal properly. Prolotherapy is applied and the damaged tissues are started on a complete process that in the end on the last of 4 phases the tissues are returned to their original genetic structure to include their original size. Such is what happens when trauma takes place in the penis structures and we disallow healing to take place in its complete form we control the lengthening of the those structures for our intentions.
Here is one of the many descriptive websites:

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/woun…ing-stages.html

Here is another: http://www.burtchiropractic.com/201…tissue-healing/

Here is another: http://curad.com/firstaid/stages.asp


09-2003 BPEL:6.0x5.5

11-2004 BPEL:8.25x6.25 . . 9+ by Spring is the goal AIR CLAMP

Now BPEL:8 5/8 x 6 5/8 PE Weights

Originally Posted by marinera
I would like to add something about pumping. As a premise, I don’t think pumping is the best technique for permanent gains, for most of people. But there is for sure a percentage of people who gets permanent gains from it. So said, pumping is probably the oldest PE technique. I can remember vacuum pumps being advertised in popular magazines at least 30 years ago, while I think jelqing is born on the web. So I think there has been more experimenting with pumping than with any other PE technique.

Just a little something to add. I bought a junk pump around 1991/1992. Just making a guess about the actual date.
I also bought a little booklet on PE that included Jelqing and stretches and maybe that was 1991 maybe even 1990. I am sure pumping was available many years before that date.
But in 1990 none of us would recognize the Web back then. It was almost all command line. Graphics where primitive at best. The Internet that people used was more BB and IRC type stuff. I actually think that technically this is considered before the Web since I don’t believe they where using HTTP and HTML yet there might have been some computer science geeks using it at University.

Jelqing was definitely around before the web. It was just sold in booklets advertised in adult magazines and adult catalogs. For the younger members of the forum this was through the mail. It would take a week or two to get your order and you would usually set up a PO box so your regular mailbox didn’t get spammed with real life junk mail.

Now I would be interested in the actual origin of jelqing and not for one second do I think DLD translated Aramaic or whatever language to unlock ancient secrets. (If you have seen the movie you know what I am talking about)


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bhcentral, I definitely remember there being an internet “backdoor.” Then it was either a visitation by extraterrestrials or divine revelation. If I remember correctly what DLD said. Oh, and I think he had to wait for a planetary alignment that only happens every 1000 years and Puxatony Phil had to not see his shadow, then the holy truth of the jelq was revealed to him. ;)

Monty, those are indeed the phases of healing, but what is the relevance to PE? I looked on those links but did not see it. Could you clarify please? Thanks man.

Roots

Originally Posted by Monty:
Marinara wished to see scientific evidence of healing cycles and their validity. There are many sites that reveal the 4 phases of healing.
The one that brought me to a clear understanding of these 4 phases was a dissertation about Prolotherapy. This is a medical procedure that artificially starts the healing process when an abnormal recuperation has taken place such as a sprained ankle where the ligaments and tendons don’t heal properly. Prolotherapy is applied and the damaged tissues are started on a complete process that in the end on the last of 4 phases the tissues are returned to their original genetic structure to include their original size. Such is what happens when trauma takes place in the penis structures and we disallow healing to take place in its complete form we control the lengthening of the those structures for our intentions.
Here is one of the many descriptive websites:

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/woun…ing-stages.html

Here is another: http://www.burtchiropractic.com/201…tissue-healing/

Here is another: http://curad.com/firstaid/stages.asp

Well isnt that what the IPR theory from Xeno is all about? (I cant find the thread ..search sucks)

Originally Posted by rootsnatty
Monty, those are indeed the phases of healing, but what is the relevance to PE? I looked on those links but did not see it. Could you clarify please? Thanks man.

Roots


Well, it is clear : you break your penis completely than go to a chiropratic who will make it heal longer. :D

It is exactly for this kind of misinformation that I don’t like terms like ‘healing’ etc. when applied to PE. Without counting that those info are outdated even for injured tissue. Research of tha last years has shown that the connective tissue gets repaired even from severe injuries whithout going through inflammation. You have inflammation in connective tissue only in the case of the worst grade of injury, which means total tissue disruption.

For those who trust high forces and the trauma-healing model, the consistent advise would be something like : ‘Cut your penis in half than attach it to a stretcher or weight and let it grow longer.’. A number of hangers promoted something on this line, drawing analogy with the way docs used to lengthen bones. Go figure.


Last edited by marinera : 07-29-2014 at .

That’s correct Maranera, connective tissue only becomes inflamed when it begins to tear. And by tear I mean the big tear, not tears you need a microscope to see. Connective tissue has very, very few blood vessels which are required for inflammation. Conversely, when you look at something like skin which has many blood vessels, you see inflammation in response to very weak distress, like bumping your head.

Now, I don’t know what Monty is getting at so all I will say for now until I do is this: IF he is saying that because tissue tends to heal to its original size in the standard 4 phases of healing then one should ADS to interrupt this process, I would point out that this type of healing being discussed can take like 2 weeks. And if you are hanging, for instance, and haven’t done another set in all that time to re-elongate the tissue then you really need to read “Hanging 101.”

I do use an ADS though, not because I have some working theory as to why it helps - to my knowledge FULL traction forces have always been studied either for very extended periods (sometimes days at a time) or sporadically, but never a sporadic full traction force with very, very minimal traction forces in between - I use an ADS for peace of mind, just in case it helps.

Roots

For those who never have read it, this can be interesting
Deformation: Intensity, Method and Recovery guidelines

It is not completely pertinent because it refers to injured connective tissue (that’s what you would expect from rehabilitation/physiotherapy works), but it can hint why 20-30 minutes of low tension can give gains, although not optimal.

Good find Maranera! You’re right, of course, it’s focus on damaged connective tissue might skew things a bit for our purposes, but I think the take-home message there was that there is more than one way to apply traction.

What connective tissue was being examined there? I missed that. If it had a load bearing ability that was close to the penis connective tissues we are interested in then those are some really high stresses! It seems probable that it is much stronger connective tissue though if the amount of stress that the A group was applying wasn’t even creating a feeling of discomfort.

I think one thing that doesn’t change relative to tissue strength is the amount of discomfort at a given level of relative stress, so maybe that is a better way to compare the different groups, i.e. no feeling of stretch (low relative stress), uncomfortable (moderate relative stress), nearly unbearable (high relative stress), basically impossible (very high/dangerous relative stress).

Roots

Originally Posted by rootsnatty
Monty, those are indeed the phases of healing, but what is the relevance to PE? I looked on those links but did not see it. Could you clarify please? Thanks man.

Roots


Regardless of the level of damage from stress due to hanging or extender or whatever, the body responds to damage or trauma in the same way. The point being is to understand that to thwart the efforts of the body to repair the damage it finds and strengthen and return all structures their normal condition dictated by the genes is the necessity to keep the damage in a condition which benefits our purposes. If micro tears are prevented from being repaired then the gains from whatever created those gains will remain and become permanent.

I don’t argue with the deformation principles presented in this thread, all I’m presenting is a means by which to preserve those gains. An ADS is a valuable tool in this regard.
I know Marinara doesn’t like the word “healing” or the concept of micro tears signaling the body it needs repair but if you pay attention the healing cycles of the body then you will find results will follow that will perpetuate gains over the long run. Even if you look at the lattice structure of the ligs and the collagen displacement from stress an ADS will prevent those attempts by the body to heal those structures.

If your interested in additional articles Prolotherapy is what lead me to understand the healing processes of the body. Prolotherapy is a medical procedure by which a doctor can start the bodies healing cycle to repair damaged tissues that have healed improperly such as an ankle sprain or knee sprain where ligaments and tendons no longer hold the joint together properly. It requires shots of an irritant to the area in question. The end result is a tightening of the ligs and tendons to hold the joint together again. I view the ligs we deal with in the penis the same way but we’re wanting to keep the damage instead of allowing it to be repaired.

Here is a link about Prolotherapy: http://wn.com/what_is_prolotherapy_and_is_it_dangerous


09-2003 BPEL:6.0x5.5

11-2004 BPEL:8.25x6.25 . . 9+ by Spring is the goal AIR CLAMP

Now BPEL:8 5/8 x 6 5/8 PE Weights

Monty, you are taking as a model of growth what instead is a model to recover from big injury. I can’t say any better than this. Prolotherapy (which has doubious effectiveness also) is used to recover from big, big injuries. I have never seen anyone gaining a bigger penis from an injury, have you?

Originally Posted by marinera
Monty, you are taking as a model of growth what instead is a model to recover from big injury. I can’t say any better than this. Prolotherapy (which has doubious effectiveness also) is used to recover from big, big injuries. I have never seen anyone gaining a bigger penis from an injury, have you?


Dubious effectiveness? Opinions don’t negate medical accomplishments.

Well of course I’ve seen a bigger penis from injury. What would you call micro tears? On an incremental basis gains are obtained from re-occurring incremental damage.


09-2003 BPEL:6.0x5.5

11-2004 BPEL:8.25x6.25 . . 9+ by Spring is the goal AIR CLAMP

Now BPEL:8 5/8 x 6 5/8 PE Weights

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