What Benefits does an ADS provide?

I though it was pretty clear that I meant is bad for gains.

ADS don’t help with flaccid hang either, neither do extenders if not in the long run. If you want a good flaccid, do girth exercises.

Is an ADS with sufficient force an ADS or an extender?

It depends what device you have in mind. As said, beside the amount of force, an extender is based on the principle of holding the penis at the same length for as long as you want amount of times. Small weigths, bands attached to the leg and similar things don’t respect those principles.

Do you have a write up of your routine anywhere? I’ve yet to read it. I’ve yet to read any example of extenders providing more than newbie gains, apart from cantlook. Your stats appear to show more than newbie gains, so I’d like to read about your routine.

It’s possible I’m wrong. Clearly the majority of people who post gain best by exerting greater force temporarily during a manual routine than lesser force for long periods using an extender. There are possibly similar numbers of people who claim no gains from manual or from extenders, which might indicate that - if there are more manual PEers than extender users, that extenders provide less benefit. That’s a lot of mights and ifs though.

If you look at physiological literature for other areas of the body, there are arguments on both sides.

My own experience with using an extender only for a period of 6 months was zero gains. Note that this was way after gaining via manual means, so you could argue that I gained a maximal amount or that I strengthened my penis to the point an extender would be useless. Personal experience is useful but it would be nice if we could figure out a way to get beyond it to discover best practise.

IMO anything less then 1 or 2 pounds is a waste of time as it takes that much to keep the micro tears open and continuously disturbed.

An ADS can and does train the ligs and other tissues to relax and remain that way for a better flaccid. It does take time to accomplish but it does happen.

Now I should point out that I had some surgery done and it ruined my flaccid hang. When I left the hospital my unit turtled so drastically it looked like I had not been circumcised. Although I did not loose any length that I had accomplished my flaccid for all intents and purposes was gone. So trauma to the body can affect penile conditions.

An ADS is never an extender

Sorry, I was up to late to add last night. The 1” inside diameter 1/4” inch wire stainless steel o-rings weigh .8 ounces, so 3 of them would be 2.4 ounces. It seems like on rest days, just 3 of them keeps me from ever turtling. In between stretches on stretch days, the 3, 1 and 1/4 inch ID, 1/4” wire rings are exactly an ounce each, so all together it would come to 5.4 ounces not 6 ounces as I said last night.

They have a nice selection:

The wider wire is better because it is heavier, and it won’t pinch like narrower wire. They have some inside diameters that I haven’t seen anywhere else, and they have the best prices.

A routine for extenders? You just have to wear it the most time is possible.

I pointed you to threads where people reported gains from extenders already in other threads, there are many; it took me not much time to find a couple:
Penimaster anyone tried it?
Calling out all Max Xtender users!

among those who reported gains from extenders, I can name, AndroNYC, Dino9x7, Supersizeit, and many others whos name I can’t remember how exactly is spelled (where the members list is gone, by the way?).

Add to that a few clinical studies: I know they aren’t perfect etc. etc., but some of them looks legit enough (the one done by Gontero for example, who has a good reputation) and anyway I’d say they are at least as good as personal reports.

About your idea that gains through extenders being just ‘newbie gains’, it is an inconsistent idea IMHO; those who subscribe the idea that s.c. ‘newbie gains’ are the rule (I don’t) base their thoughts on the fact that those gains are due to enhanced EQ. Now, extenders do nothing for EQ, actually those devices tends to lower EQ with consistent use. So any gains through extenders can’t be but real growth.

I am bit confused by this sentence. I am not arguing that high forces can’t give gains, neither that there can’t be some toughening even with low forces. Beside that, what is ‘low’ and ‘high’ force, can vary a lot from one guy to the next. So everyone has to find what works for him with trial and error.

I was specifically asking whether you had a thread with your experience! I would find it useful to read. There are lots of people using extenders complaining of a lack of results, so what did you do differently? It’s a fuller explanation than the amount of hours that helps with these kinds of things and may help guide others to your gains. I’ve looked through the others before and have yet to find anything that goes beyond newbie gains or is in enough detail to ascertain what has been done. You mention 3 members who’ve used combination techniques.

I don’t think the clinical studies are worthwhile other than maybe as a loose predictor of a proper study. They are just too small and the growth shown is well within newbie gain expectations.

By newbie gains I don’t really mean EQ, though I agree that is also a factor, I mean that people seems to be able to do almost any routine and gain 0.5-0.75” roughly and very quickly. Which is why we get so many posts from people 3 months in complaining they are not gaining anymore. A better description could be the easy gains many people get at the start or recommencing of PE.

I think we both agree that there is probably some optimum amount of force. I think that it’s not particularly personal or not as widely personal as we tend to think it is. It doesn’t help that other than with hanging and maybe some extenders, it’s hard to describe that force.

What I was saying above is there is literature that shows toughening caused by long term low level force and literature that shows toughening from cyclical higher level force. Toughening is probably not what we want. Apparently we both found a sweet spot and that sweet spot was markedly different.

I have no direct evidence for this, my evidence is inductive in nature, based on reading the newbie forum for many years and so could be far from the truth. I’m probably on better ground than Monty:’s ADS claims but potentially not by much. Let’s just say I haven’t seen any non-black ravens.

Mem, I have already seen this movie. No rational argument will change your mind. I think I have presented all the evidence needed and I am not going to add anything else because it would be a waste of time. Suffit to say that there is more evidence for effectiveness of extenders than any other PE technique, so if you want to insist that extenders don’t work, than there isn’t any PE technique that works.

Looking at the fact that when the body detects that there has been trauma in any form it sends enzyme’s and proteins to start the healing process, the end result will be strengthening of those body parts. This is where an extender reaches its limitation. As with an ADS initially used to achieve gains, those gains will stop after a period because the tissues involved will become strong enough to withstand that particular stress. This is called assimilation. Once that has occurred gains will be very difficult to achieve. Hence the need to change the routine to start gains progress again. Extenders typically don’t have ability to supply the additional stress levels required to break that assimilation.

Hanging on the other hand provides a very flexible means to break up that assimilation. This of course must be carried out in a careful manner so that excessive weight levels don’t become the norm. The last thing you want is to end up having to hang 40 to 50 pounds in order to continue gains. Those are very dangerous weights that can lead to injury very easily. That isn’t necessary if techniques are applied that provide continued gains without weight increases. From my own experience I gained over 2” without exceeding 20 pounds of raw weight over a period of 3 years. Actually the 2” was accomplished in about 14 months but that was because I was limited in the number of hanging sets I could accomplish in a day due to privacy issues.

A ring that weighs 0,8oz doesn’t seem to be worth dealing with even in terms of 3X 2.4oz. PEweight rings weigh in at 10oz ea. because they are made of lead, coated with plastic to prevent contact with the body. Stainless steel rings don’t weight near that much and would be massive rings to be that heavy. I don’t see any 1 1/4” rings on that site that reach that weight. So I’m a little confused. Perhaps in recognizing that your using 1” ID rings 2.4oz is enough to do something for you. Carry on my friend.

Interesting thred on extenders. This fellow reported gains over 1” and has put down his experience with details

5 Years Of Extender Experience