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Thoughts on PE from johndough

Originally Posted by johndough123
I’ve lost interest because only two or three members even addressed my points, the rest engaged in personal attacks and reverted to anti-science rants about how PE can elude logical inconsistencies.

If Bohm and Redbear can help me filter through what they consider solid extender studies then I would be grateful and would read through them. I don’t think any of them measured erect length, which is unfortunate. I think fsl will add some evidence, but the size study where the penis was stretched 3 times before measuring the fsl has had its methodology questioned as it is purported that the stretching increased extensibility in the flaccid state without giving an accurate measure of erection size. So, if all they used were fsl and the study is legit, I’m going to conclude that length gains may be possible, but a study with erection length needs to be conducted. If no legit study has been conducted with extenders or non-significant results obtained, then I am done and am going to spend more time on the things in my life that I feel I can change.

Regarding the pumping studies: do they state how much pressure they were using ? Because if I do 1 pump or 2 that certainly will not gonna give me any growth. The other thing being the short duration of the treatment per week.

I think that that a good way to know if growing of the penis is possible(apart from anecdotal evidence) only if you can make analogies from other organs/tissues which are researched(stretched,tractioned,etc) based on their more important roles than how one could enlarge their penis.


Starting stats: 6.4" / 5.6" Current Stats: 7.4" / 5.8" Short term goal: 7" / 6" Long term goal: 8" / 6.5"

Originally Posted by johndough123
I’ve lost interest because only two or three members even addressed my points, the rest engaged in personal attacks and reverted to anti-science rants about how PE can elude logical inconsistencies.


That’s what I said.

However, most of what you have said is as opinionated as that which they have said. I’ve been thinking about this, and well measuring whether someones wang got bigger is never going to satisfy you, or many others.

The only way we are going to know what is happening in the body is by using something like an MRI scanner. You will also need people who have never done any PE, are willing to dedicate 30 mins or more per day, for 5 days a week, for 1 year plus, and then you are going to have to bung them all through an MRI machine on a regular basis, say once or twice a month.

First you could analyse the scans of those who have increased measurements, and then you could analyse the scans of those who didnt and look for consistencies in the groups.

An MRI scan should allow a trained individual to recognise whether tissue mass has increased/ or the tissues have moved forward, the cells have got bigger or whatever.

It will cost a lot of money, and there is probably no financial reward to be had for the investment.

One other idea. Anyone got an identical twin who doesnt PE?

All you need are a few good before and after pictures to become inspired and take action. I didn’t ask for scientific proof when I started bodybuilding, and I am enjoying the real-life benefits of my lean muscles!


Recognize.

Here’s another full pdf. It’s a review. This one definitely has financial stakes to it but I still found it interesting. It can be found in pubmed also (second link). Look at p. 307, in particular. Maybe someone can comment on the tissue growth analogies they list.

“The recent trial noted that, over a 6-month period, patients reported increases in penile length of 1-2.0 cm, with an accompanying increase in girth.”

Does anyone have a clue which trial they are referring to? I thought extenders have never been shown to increase girth except perhaps a trend toward growth around the glans although, it’s not clear if it isn’t just temporary inflammation?

http://howtopenis.com/medicalstudy/FastSize.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18452379

Edit: Maybe it’s this?

http://www.fastsize.com/peyronies-d…nical-trial.pdf


Starting Size: April, 28, 2010: NBPEL-7" Girth-6" (base, MSG, glans)

Currently: BPEL-8" NBPEL-7.25" Girth-6.25" (base)/6.125" (MSG)/6.125" (glans)

Yup, I believe that’s the one. The authors and the extender company is the same.

Bohm, thank you for your contribution to this thread.

Yeah, that’s good stuff bohm.

Originally Posted by stuzilla
That’s what I said.

However, most of what you have said is as opinionated as that which they have said. I’ve been thinking about this, and well measuring whether someones wang got bigger is never going to satisfy you, or many others.

The only way we are going to know what is happening in the body is by using something like an MRI scanner. You will also need people who have never done any PE, are willing to dedicate 30 mins or more per day, for 5 days a week, for 1 year plus, and then you are going to have to bung them all through an MRI machine on a regular basis, say once or twice a month.

First you could analyse the scans of those who have increased measurements, and then you could analyse the scans of those who didnt and look for consistencies in the groups.

An MRI scan should allow a trained individual to recognise whether tissue mass has increased/ or the tissues have moved forward, the cells have got bigger or whatever.

It will cost a lot of money, and there is probably no financial reward to be had for the investment.

One other idea. Anyone got an identical twin who doesnt PE?

Some good ideas there. Your last point about the twins hits on the idea of non-PE controls.

The way I’d conduct the study (a little cheaper than yours I think) is take a large group of men who would like to try to increase their penis size. Randomize them into a few groups, each of which is taught some PE exercises or given a PE device or taught nothing at all (maybe given a placebo pill so they think they’re gonna get bigger). Then simply measuring by a doctor over time all of our standard measurements we use here as well as EQ.

The key being randomization. Believe it or not, a computer randomly placing volunteers into study groups has an absolutely amazing way of working out all the little potential differences between study subjects. These little differences would include things like masturbation, sex, and whether they tug their dicks in the shower. It would all work.

The theme of cost and benefit being prohibitive to such studies is of course still applicable. It’s true that nobody really wants to conduct such studies if they can’t make a buck.

Originally Posted by bohm
… Look at p. 307, in particular. Maybe someone can comment on the tissue growth analogies they list.


They are saying they don’t know how it grows : “This process is thought..” which doesn’t means anything. The analogy with the bone lenghtening is plain ludicrous.

Originally Posted by bohm
…….I thought extenders have never been shown to increase girth except perhaps a trend toward growth around the glans although, it’s not clear if it isn’t just temporary inflammation?

……..


Yes, a slight grow under the glans. It’s not temporary and is not inflammation. I think it happens mostly in noose-style extenders, and my pure guess is that this growth is caused by reduced oxygenation.

Originally Posted by scienceguy106

……

The way I’d conduct the study (a little cheaper than yours I think) is take a large group of men who would like to try to increase their penis size. Randomize them into a few groups….

I know I am a ball buster, but there are people doing pretty much the same thing in training science from a long long time, and they still are not able to say anything valuable.


Last edited by marinera : 01-18-2011 at .

Originally Posted by scienceguy106
Then simply measuring by a doctor over time all of our standard measurements we use here as well as EQ.


I think that if you are going to do a proper study, then you may as well do the MRI scans to find out what is actually happening internally. Measuring wont provide this info. Only a medical scan or biopsy/autopsy will give those results, and you wont get many volunteers for the latter.

If we know what is actually happening internally, then approaches and techniques can be refined based upon the findings.

You should make biopsy also.

Why don’t they grab a few monkeys or rats and pull on their dicks and do all the relevant tests. The dicks are different but I imagine not that different. I suppose animal testing to see if PE works may not be seen as that worthwhile or moral but then again if it works, it might be seen as a positive unlike many other animal experiments. I can picture a rat with a dick bigger than it’s leg. That would be funny.


Starting Size: April, 28, 2010: NBPEL-7" Girth-6" (base, MSG, glans)

Currently: BPEL-8" NBPEL-7.25" Girth-6.25" (base)/6.125" (MSG)/6.125" (glans)

Originally Posted by marinera

You should make biopsy also.

I have no idea of the requirements of tissue sampling throughout the groin. It could be quite invasive, but as I said, I have no idea. An MRI and a very good analyst will be able to fill in a large number of gaps.

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