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Thoughts on PE from johndough

Sorry p6inch, restate your question. There were so many posts in this thread I didn’t notice it.

Originally Posted by johndough123
Sorry p6inch, restate your question. There were so many posts in this thread I didn’t notice it.

Fair enough, here it is

P6inch - Thoughts on PE from johndough

There’s the set up and my theory, have a read of that

What do you think of that premise, that gains can be had because of an overall state of mild atrophy

By the way, wiki says that there are studies demonstrating pumps do not work for increase, stretchng does;

Http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penis_enlargement

Quote
The effectiveness of penis pumps was examined by Kazem, Hosseini and Alizadeh. They studied 37 men with penis length less than 10 cm and found no significant change in penile length after using pumps for six months, although the follow-up have found 30% satisfaction with the method..
..

In 2002 a study published in the International Journal of Impotence Research concluded that penis extender devices are effective at elongating the penis and furthermore the increases in length correlate with the amount of time the device is worn.[10] A study conducted at the University of Turin and published in 2009 in the British Journal of Urology showed similar results, using a penile extender exerting a continuous and gradually increasing traction force on the penis. The device consists of a plastic ring, where the penis is introduced, with two dynamic metallic rods which produce the traction.[11] After using the device at least four hours daily for six months, the mean gain in length in flaccid state was 2.3 cm, with significantly improved erectile function scores and treatment satisfaction scores of “acceptable” to “good improvement” in all items, except for penile girth, where there was no significant measurable or subjective changes.[11] However, the study population only included patients with inadequate penile dimensions,[11] so it remains uncertain whether people with usual dimensions would have the same effects.

[8

I have read about cases of penile atrophy from lack of use. However, I would have to do research on the matter to determine what the medical hypothesis is regarding the actual bio-mechanism. From what I have studied in regards to anatomy, ligaments and smooth muscle do not generally undergo the significant hypertrophy like skeletal muscle does when stimulated. If people, through PE, handle their penis more often and obtain more erections, they are working the muscle tissues that are involved in the erection process. The improvement in erection is not indicative of significant hypertrophy, rather to tie it to your theory, it is probably due to strengthening and conditioning of those muscles, which assist in vein occlusion. In this case, one would gain until they would reach their maximum natural potential, the gain in erection would be due to improved erection quality, which can translate to size gains.

I don’t think those studies are credible p6inch, some have a lack of sample size n<30 and others are clearly a conflict of interest such as the fastsize studies being conducted by a physician who is a consultant for fastsize.

Quote
Ligaments and smooth muscle do not generally undergo the significant hypertrophy like skeletal muscle does when stimulated

As a personal trainer, I can assure you, they do, take anyone who has not stretched in even a moderate period of time, give them a workout that concentrates on range of motion and every single time their ligaments will immediately loosen up, they will enjoy far more range of motion, then those improvements will plateau

I have to imagine the same is true for blood vessels and skin tissue

Now, we might be talking about different criteria for the term “significant” but it is a fact, a person will be far more limber in a very short period of time with the proper training program if they had not recently been training for that purpose

Originally Posted by Dante311
Hotshot, the tunica is only an extensible tissue that envelope’s the corpora cavernosa. Even if you were to stretch the collagen, you would not limit the ability to maintain an erection, or inhibit your ability to do so. Unlike tendons and ligaments.. Which contain collagen fibrils (Type I), you should see no significant adverse events associated with a plasticity event. Ligaments and tendons exhibit both nonlinear and viscoelastic behavior under physiologic loading. Viscoelasticity indicates time dependent mechanical loading. The relationship between stress applied is not constant and depends on time of displacement or load.

Corresponding to the reduction in mechanical properties, there is a reduction in the ligament structure. Woo et al studied the affect of exercise on swine digital tendons and the FMTC. Animals were run on a track at speeds of 6 to 8 km/hr for an average of 40km/week for 3 months and 12 months.. A sedentary group was used as a control. The short term group showed no significant changes in mechanical properties for either the tendons or the FMTC. There was an increase in cross-sectional area of the tendon as well as a 22% increase in tensile strength. For the FMTC, however, there was little change in most mechanical properties, although there was a significant increase in maximum load to failure when normalized by animal weight. Another study in dogs also found higher ultimate load to body strength ratios for the FMTC. Woo put the findings on immobilization and exercise together in a graph showing how changes in mechanical load may alter ligament/tendon structure, in a statement he characterized as Wolff’s law for ligaments/tendons. Similar to Frosts theory on adult bone adaptation, where he believed it was difficult to achieve substantial increase in bone structure through mechanical loading unless damaged was caused, but that losses in bone mass were realized quite readily when loads were significantly reduced as in immobilization.

Important issues in ligament and tendon repair are how the ligament should be repaired, if applying mechanical load hinders or helps repair, and when repair has progressed to the point where complete load bearing is possible. In the case of tendons, which glide within a sheath, the introduction of passive motion for healing and repaired tendons is believed to be important because it prevents adhesion between the sheath and tendons that restricts motion. The relationship between mobilization following repair and alterations of ligament structure and function is complex, depending on how long the ligament is immobilized following repair. In a study of Medial Collateral Ligament (MCL) repair, MCL were lacerated and then repaired. In one group, the MCL was not repaired, but it was immobilized. In the second group, the MCL was repaired and immobilized for three weeks while in the third group immoblization lasted for 6 weeks. Suprisingly, the group without repair that was immobilized early showed the best gain in strength over time. This reflected changes in the structural makeup of the ligament. The amount of type I vs. Type III collagen (type III collagen is a type of collagen associated with wound healing) was closer to normal for the early mobilized ligament without repair. These results demonstrate two basic concepts: 1) in a confirmation of tissue structure function relationships, the stiffness and strength of healing ligaments correlates with the type and amount of collagen fibrils present, and 2) that mechanical stimulus has a significant affect on ligament structure.

Take home message.. You would not see the same effect.

So, Dante. Can you explain all this in layman’s terms please for those of us who don’t understand it?

I was going to bow down to your knowledge prowess until I discovered that you just copied and pasted it from this website -
http://www.engin.umich.edu/class/bm…amenttendon.htm

Originally Posted by p6inch
As a personal trainer, I can assure you, they do, take anyone who has not stretched in even a moderate period of time, give them a workout that concentrates on range of motion and every single time their ligaments will immediately loosen up, they will enjoy far more range of motion, then those improvements will plateau

I have to imagine the same is true for blood vessels and skin tissue

Now, we might be talking about different criteria for the term “significant” but it is a fact, a person will be far more limber in a very short period of time with the proper training program if they had not recently been training for that purpose

I’m not sure I follow you. Are you stating that ligaments can become more elastic after warming up or undergo hypertrophy at a significant scale? I agree that ligaments become more elastic when heated and stretched (i.e. warmed up).

Ligaments can undergo hypertrophy actually. Not sure if this is what we are searching for. Thicker means stronger.

I am saying that if you have not worked on range of motion for as little as a few months, post warm up, your range of motion will demonstrate significant improvement over a post warm up range of motion before the program

Personal trainers rely on this fact to gain trust and loyalty and give out free sessions for this purpose

Here’s a perfect example;

I play tennis every evening in the summer time, I do not play at all in the winter

At the beginning of the summer for the first week or two I cannot hit a second serve even after a warm up (second serve requires more range of motion then any other stroke)

By the third week I have no problem hitting a second serve even if I do not warm up the limb, this comes from the stretching exercises, taking muscle and ligament out of the state of mild atrophy they acquire during the winter months of non use for that muscle/ligament group

This also goes a long way explaining why people easily lose their gains if they do not have a maintenance program

Originally Posted by Dante311

Hotshot, the tunica is only an extensible tissue that envelope’s the corpora cavernosa. Even if you were to stretch the collagen, you would not limit the ability to maintain an erection, or inhibit your ability to do so. Unlike tendons and ligaments.. Which contain collagen fibrils (Type I), you should see no significant adverse events associated with a plasticity event. Ligaments and tendons exhibit both nonlinear and viscoelastic behavior under physiologic loading. Viscoelasticity indicates time dependent mechanical loading. The relationship between stress applied is not constant and depends on time of displacement or load.

Corresponding to the reduction in mechanical properties, there is a reduction in the ligament structure. Woo et al studied the affect of exercise on swine digital tendons and the FMTC. Animals were run on a track at speeds of 6 to 8 km/hr for an average of 40km/week for 3 months and 12 months.. A sedentary group was used as a control. The short term group showed no significant changes in mechanical properties for either the tendons or the FMTC. There was an increase in cross-sectional area of the tendon as well as a 22% increase in tensile strength. For the FMTC, however, there was little change in most mechanical properties, although there was a significant increase in maximum load to failure when normalized by animal weight. Another study in dogs also found higher ultimate load to body strength ratios for the FMTC. Woo put the findings on immobilization and exercise together in a graph showing how changes in mechanical load may alter ligament/tendon structure, in a statement he characterized as Wolff’s law for ligaments/tendons. Similar to Frosts theory on adult bone adaptation, where he believed it was difficult to achieve substantial increase in bone structure through mechanical loading unless damaged was caused, but that losses in bone mass were realized quite readily when loads were significantly reduced as in immobilization.

Important issues in ligament and tendon repair are how the ligament should be repaired, if applying mechanical load hinders or helps repair, and when repair has progressed to the point where complete load bearing is possible. In the case of tendons, which glide within a sheath, the introduction of passive motion for healing and repaired tendons is believed to be important because it prevents adhesion between the sheath and tendons that restricts motion. The relationship between mobilization following repair and alterations of ligament structure and function is complex, depending on how long the ligament is immobilized following repair. In a study of Medial Collateral Ligament (MCL) repair, MCL were lacerated and then repaired. In one group, the MCL was not repaired, but it was immobilized. In the second group, the MCL was repaired and immobilized for three weeks while in the third group immoblization lasted for 6 weeks. Suprisingly, the group without repair that was immobilized early showed the best gain in strength over time. This reflected changes in the structural makeup of the ligament. The amount of type I vs. Type III collagen (type III collagen is a type of collagen associated with wound healing) was closer to normal for the early mobilized ligament without repair. These results demonstrate two basic concepts: 1) in a confirmation of tissue structure function relationships, the stiffness and strength of healing ligaments correlates with the type and amount of collagen fibrils present, and 2) that mechanical stimulus has a significant affect on ligament structure.

Take home message.. You would not see the same effect.

Dante, the forum guidelines do ask you to link your source if you are plagiarizing or straight copying another persons work. It would have done your cause no harm to do so in this case.


Heat makes the difference between gaining quickly or slowly for some guys, or between gaining slowly instead of not at all for others. And the ideal penis size is 7.6" BPEL x 5.6" Mid Girth.

Basics.... firegoat roll How to use the Search button for best results

Originally Posted by UFGator
So, Dante. Can you explain all this in layman’s terms please for those of us who don’t understand it?

I was going to bow down to your knowledge prowess until I discovered that you just copied and pasted it from this website -
http://www.engin.umich.edu/class/bm…amenttendon.htm

That’s a no no Dante. You borrow something from another site, you link to it.


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You’re 100% right. I apologize. It was not my intent and I know better than that.

I did hit that off at nearly 1am, which is not an excuse, but was not thinking.

The take home message is the collagen fibril types are composed of similar cellular subsets, but do not share the same plasticity effect the OP was referring to.. As noted by the referenced articles.

Additionally, the ability for the collagen fibril repair is based on stimuli noted, and new PE methods do not seem, anecdotally, to stimulate the exaggerated adverse events the OP was alluring to in response to mechanical stimuli.


Strt: Nov 09 6.1 x 4.5 (bpel)

Curr (June 2010): 7.25 x 4.8 (bpel)

ST Goal: 7.6 x 5 || LT Goal: 8 x 5.5

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