Is Turtling a bad they does it lessen gains.

My thoughts exactly. Great post. I’m gonna have to read through that whole thread now. Read your first post on that thread a long time ago, but it seems like there’s more good stuff dispersed throughout.

And you pump like a champ. Usually that has the opposite effect.

Anecdotal at best; it’s all in achieving a healthy erection after any form of mild or aggressive PE.

I hope so. I don’t like the look of turtling and I hate being a grower. Unless the growing is starting at 6”.

No, it’s an empirical fact that you pump like a champ. :)

You’re right, but after a pumping session that does not comprise EQ or the ability to get an erection at all, wouldn’t you agree that you hang larger and heavier than normal?

LetsGrow123 welcome to the forum. Hope I didn’t come off as an ass.

It’s a great thread in some ways, but it’s also a bit of a dumping ground for anything that looks like it could be interesting. It’s far too much to read, but worth a scan. The science, however interesting to theorise around, does not provide greater gains than the empirical observations. It’s one of the few areas where PE is a bit like weight training; what works to build an athlete was known by the ancient Greeks, long before Galen was born. And we are still changing our scientific minds on why certain things work. Our bodybuilders are getting bigger, yes, but it’s through endocrinology, not new training methods. :)

I’ve found going commando and letting gravity work and edging after routines made me a shower.

True story. To build a better athlete you just have to start lifting a bull when it’s a baby and keep lifting it everyday until it is full grown. With good form.

And yes, all modern bodybuilding is endocrinology. At least at the professional level. Mostly the amateur level too come to think of it. :)

And that’s true about doing what works instead of doing what works only if you know why it works.

Enjoy the responses immensely. Especially the scientific evidence based stuff.

Bhcentral - it is all so anecdotal and so individual. As long as we are all making gains and willing to change up our routines if gains are not coming then people will continue to move in the right direction forward.

Rootsnatty - thanks for the info. I’ve been into muscle growth/building for about 15 years now. I’m 29 now. It is common for people to talk about breaking down muscle so it heals, grows, and strengthens. When you say modern research shows the link to muscular tension (load) and hormonal cascades being closely tied to tension are really the key players in growth. How recent is modern. As far back as I can remember I have always known this to be a factor. A persons hormonal individuality will play a big role in how they progress both aesthetically and strength wise. Did the modern research you’re speaking of really begin in the 1970’s when hormone manipulation (steroids) really took off.

One thing I really like about using my ADS for almost 24 hours a day is the drastic change in my flaccid hang. A couple girls I have hooked up with a few times can really grab a handful of it soft and boy do they have a big smile on their face.

When I say modern, I mean in the last 15-20 years, so not super modern, but pretty modern. So pretty much our whole training careers this has been known in scientific and performance enhancement (kinesiology-based, not chemical-based) circles. It’s just when you look back at what Joe Weider and Arnold, and pretty much everyone else, said back then about the process of muscle growth you see the misconception begin. And that same rationale is still the common belief among lifters who aren’t interested in the science or educated in muscle physiology. And I mean specifically what causes the hypertrophy response in response to training stimuli, not other external stimuli. The effect of hormones has been known since the 1930’s to one extent or another, after they first synthesized testosterone. Then I would say hormones hit the international stage in the 1950’s when Russia dominated the Olympics with a bunch of juiced up athletes.

What is your training history? Do you still lift?

Recently I became concerned with how much I was turtling. I now think I was over doing it. I was doing light extended hanging and pumping on an almost daily basis. I noticed excessive turtling, so I started to do 2 on and 1 off. I would still be turtling for most of my days off. On advice from Roots I stopped pumping, and now I do the light extended hanging almost daily with very little turtling.

After my extended hangs I usually lay my dick on a warm rice sock and go over it with a small hand held roller (jelqing motion), and with-in ~ 3 to 5 minutes the turtling is gone. Otherwise it will be gone in 20 minutes to an hour if I just ignore it.

In other words. Pay attention to excessive turtling, or a lack of wood. It could be symptoms of over doing it. Be nice to your dick.

This is turning into a really good thread and I’m learning allot. We really are going after micro tears but I believe turtling is a case where many micro tears have happened and your body is defensively drawing your penis in to protect it and heal. If edging takes it away that’s a clue that the added blood flow from edging helps remove the exudate, the same is helpful with fluid buildup. If you are turtling I can assume you have added too much stress to your penis. I’ll repeat what others have said, I have made growth during times when I turtled and when I didn’t with or without an ADS. I’ve learned to listen to my body and feel I’m really in tune with it these days. I rarely turtle anymore aside from being exposed to extreme cold.

I think if you are consistently turtling you might want to dial back just a bit but doesn’t mean it will hurt growth. Everyone needs to learn to listen to their body and find what works for them. I used to steer clear of ADS because they seemed too complicated and never seemed to work for me. The risk of being caught wasn’t worth any reward but I’ve found that was an excuse because the best ADS’s are simple to put on and off, stealthy, comfortable and relatively cheap. The extenders were never stealthy or uncomfortable. I now use either golf weights or the VLC and can keep both of those on for hours at a time and they are comfortable and stealthy. I do think they make a difference to BPEL gains but if not I know they make a difference for the flaccid state which I also enjoy. Having a bigger flaccid plays in your favor. It adds confidence walking around (you can feel it on your legs), if like LetsGrow a girl manages to see it limp, when you notice girls or guys crotch watching, at bathrooms or gyms, skinny dipping, playing strip poker, etc, etc.

I think you are right on about the necessity for an ADS to be extremely easy to put on and take off, be stealthy, and be very comfortable. Something that has no definitive anecdotal support (because it is used in conjunction with other methods) needs to be a breeze. That said, I just got a couple spools of pencil lead fishing weights in the mail to make cock coils!

I think you will find all of PE is anecdotal evidence. But I can track my gains and my sensations and I do believe I’m better with the ADS I use than without. I don’t go overboard with it though and if its going to somehow get in the way of life or whatever I’m doing that day I skip it. As I’m doing today. Let me know how making the cock coil comes.