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The physics of force transmission in air versus water pumping

Marinera is wrong. Think about your brakes, air gets in, you have to press harder (apply more pressure) to get the car to stop. So with water you have to apply less pressure to transfer the same amount of force. When you reduce the volume of the cylinder by removing water the penis expands because it can fill, while the water cannot go anywhere. The same is not true for air, it can expand, so the penis does not have to expand as much for the same change in volume. Changes in volume is what we are after.

Simply, 5hg of air vacuum mostly changes the volume of air in the cylinder, 5hg of fluid is mostly going to change the volume of the penis. Again water can not expand or leave the tube, the penis has to fill to make up that difference.

I have never seen anyone say air pumping is better who did water pumping. I am getting my pump this week but I already know math so I don’t know if I will even dabble in air pumping.

Originally Posted by frigate
Marinera is wrong. Think about your brakes, air gets in, you have to press harder (apply more pressure) to get the car to stop. So with water you have to apply less pressure to transfer the same amount of force. When you reduce the volume of the cylinder by removing water the penis expands because it can fill, while the water cannot go anywhere. …

‘while the water cannot go anywhere.’. Right. Neither can be pressed.

The example of the brakes shows it exactly : air can be compressed, water can’t.

So I’m right.

Originally Posted by frigate
…..
I have never seen anyone say air pumping is better who did water pumping. I am getting my pump this week but I already know math so I don’t know if I will even dabble in air pumping.

I’m not saying air pumping is better than water pumping, sir Fourier.

Originally Posted by marinera
‘While the water cannot go anywhere.’. Right. Neither can be pressed.

The example of the brakes shows it exactly : air can be compressed, water can’t.

So I’m right.

I’m not saying air pumping is better than water pumping, sir Fourier.

If you are saying water turns into ice at 0c you can say you are right also I guess. Water does not compress, that is a basic fact. You are wrong however when you say water can’t be pressed, it is easily pressed or to use another word pumped. Water is easier to pump than air, and the same pressure will move a higher volume of water than air. Our goal is to move volume.

P.s. It’s Bernoulli who is important here.

When you have the same pressure (comparing pumping in water or pumping in air), water can go or not? If water can go, is it harder to move water, or to compress expanded air? If water can’t go, is it harder to compress water or to compress expanded air? Ice has nothing to do here.

PS: are you saying that you are Bernoulli? Good to know. Anyway Fourier could be more important than you know:

Mixed Fourier Galerkin-Finite volume pressure correction method to solve the fluid dynamic equations in cylindrical coordinates

ABSTRACT
In this contribution, we first present a numerical method to solve the governing equations for incompressible
flows in cylindrical coordinates. The hybrid formulation is based on a Fourier expansion in
the azimuthal direction…

http://congress.cimne.upc.es/bifd20…stract/a174.pdf

You searched and found a random article about 3d flow through a pipe and how to use a computer program to solve that problem with mathematical trial and error. So it’s completely irrelevant to our problem which is basic understanding of a static fluid system. So unless you want to try prove your point using computational fluid dynamics, which I doubt since that requires you to understand a high level of math and physics, we can leave Fourier out.

When you pump water out of the tube it is leaving. It is easier to move water. If the water can not go the shape of the container holding the water will absorb the pressure.

Frigate, it was you saying ‘I know maths’. :)

The point, I think you are missing, is that when you compare the expansion in air or in water, you are not pumping. Water has to be moved by the expansion of your penis. I think your penis, expainding, can more easily compress expanded air (rembember that air is expanded by the vacuum, in the stage we are analysing) than move water. If you think otherwise, well we have two different opinions.

There is a very easy way to solve this problem : comparing the degree of expansion of your penis out of the tube right after having pumped with water, then with air - at the same pressure, temperature and with the same cylinder.

After 125 posts, no one of those who a priori support the greater expansion in water has reported what this experiment gives. They keep claiming their superior science and math knowledge, doing ad hominem attacks and always missing the point. I think this is an hint of something.

Make this little empirical proof for yourself, Frigate, see what it gives.

Originally Posted by marinera
Frigate, it was you saying ‘I know maths’. :)

The point, I think you are missing, is that when you compare the expansion in air or in water, you are not pumping. Water has to be moved by the expansion of your penis. I think your penis, expainding, can more easily compress expanded air (rembember that air is expanded by the vacuum, in the stage we are analysing) than move water. If you think otherwise, well we have two different opinions.

There is a very easy way to solve this problem : comparing the degree of expansion of your penis out of the tube right after having pumped with water, then with air - at the same pressure, temperature and with the same cylinder.

After 125 posts, no one of those who a priori support the greater expansion in water has reported what this experiment gives. They keep claiming their superior science and math knowledge, doing ad hominem attacks and always missing the point. I think this is an hint of something.

Make this little empirical proof for yourself, Frigate, see what it gives.

I just want to make two points here.

ONE, if you read those that have tried water pumping, including Bathmate, almost EVERYONE reports a more impressive expansion post water pumping than air pumping, including myself.

Second, this seems to be the crux of your misunderstanding here;

“Water has to be moved by the expansion of your penis”

This is where you go off track in your logic. Water is not removed by the expansion of your penis, WATER IS REMOVED BY THE PUMP, and the penis EXPANDS TO FILL THE VOID.

No one has ever said that, Sparkyx, by what I’ve read. What they said is that ‘in water the feeling is better’. That’s a completely different thing. Anyone took a measurement to compare? Not by what I’ve read. Even you eluded the question when I asked.You turned into saying that your penis ‘is longer’. Longer, not girthier. This alone suggest that girthwise, the expansion is lower. But the point is : take this damn measurement, see if with your eyes. Going ahead on this with ‘you don’t understand/you are an ignorant’ serves nothing. I did - with air, more expansion; but for fairness, I don’t have a bathmate neither a gauge, so measurements could be not comparable.

Capernicus said the penis was fuller the day after (or some hours later, not going to check) but as well eluded this point: right after, all other things being equal, where you have more expansion, air or water?

Originally Posted by sparkyx
….

Second, this seems to be the crux of your misunderstanding here;

“Water has to be moved by the expansion of your penis”

This is where you go off track in your logic. Water is not removed by the expansion of your penis, WATER IS REMOVED BY THE PUMP, and the penis EXPANDS TO FILL THE VOID.


I think this is the key of Your misunderstanding. When you remove water, you create more vacuum. So you aren’t anymore comparing the same pressure in two different mediums. On the other hand, as well you can remove water, you can remove air - more easily actually, what weighs more, water or air? Air, before expanding to fille the void, can be pulled out.

Air expands when has no way to go and there is a vacuuum to fill. Think at it : you always make a comparison between two different scenarios : air, you consider a static situation; water, you consider a dynamic situation. That’s what is leading to mistake IMHO.

And again, for clarity : the point I’m making is not ‘what is BETTER, pumping in water or air’. That’s a completely different question.


Last edited by marinera : 08-23-2011 at .

Too bad mravg is not anymore around, he had some operative knowledge of this kind of things.

Originally Posted by marinera
No one has ever said that, Sparkyx, by what I’ve read. What they said is that ‘in water the feeling is better’. That’s a completely different thing. Anyone took a measurement to compare? Not by what I’ve read. Even you eluded the question when I asked.You turned into saying that your penis ‘is longer’. Longer, not girthier.

Didn’t mean to elude it. Yes, longer and girthier with water pumping, thats why I do it. Perhaps you have “never read” but you cannot correctly say “no one has ever said”, thats an assumption that is incorrect.

I not only find it longer and girthier, my girth is making progress with water pumping.

Originally Posted by marinera

I think this is the key of Your misunderstanding. When you remove water, you create more vacuum. So you aren’t anymore comparing the same pressure in two different mediums. On the other hand, as well you can remove water, you can remove air - more easily actually, what weighs more, water or air? Air, before expanding to fille the void, can be pulled out.

Air expands when has no way to go and there is a vacuum to fill. Think at it : you always make a comparison between two different scenarios : air, you consider a static situation; water, you consider a dynamic situation. That’s what is leading to mistake IMHO.

And again, for clarity : the point I’m making is not ‘what is BETTER, pumping in water or air’. That’s a completely different question.

So, we remain at that an impasse. I get your position that the penis cannot expand into an incompressible medium (water), but I’m saying the penis doesn’t push the water out of the cylinder, it merely expands to fill the empty space when water is pumped out. IF YOU DON”T continue to pump additional water out, yes you are right, it cannot cont to expand.

The way I water pump when using a hand pump, is I bring it up to my vacuum level, lets say 5 in hg. As the penis expands, the vacuum level drops, so I pump it up to 5 again. This allows the penis to continue to expand at a force of 5 in hg. IF I didn’t pump the vacuum level up to 5 again, you are right, it would not cont to expand in that environmental, because it would have to push water out of the tube, and the valves of the pump will not allow it.

With my electric pump it constantly draws a 5 in hg vacuum, so the penis is constantly under 5 in hg vacuum force, so it will expand at the max rate 5 in hg will allow.

Both of these scenarios are observed on both the gauge and the calibrated cylinder. Slow steady expansion as long as I keep the vacuum levels up at 5 in hg.

Always, I get greater length and girth expansion than with air, which is why I use water. Many guys have reported the same effect, usually noting it on the first time they use water, as the difference is significant. Do some not get that effect, perhaps, but the predominance is that they do.

Originally Posted by sparkyx
Didn’t mean to elude it. Yes, longer and girthier with water pumping, thats why I do it. Perhaps you have “never read” but you cannot correctly say “no one has ever said”, thats an assumption that is incorrect.

I not only find it longer and girthier, my girth is making progress with water pumping.


Quote your post where you said that please.

Originally Posted by sparkyx
……
I not only find it longer and girthier, my girth is making progress with water pumping.

This is what leads you to bias. By the way, you said 5hg is the best level of force for permanent gains, is my memory tricking me? Well, did you know that ‘professional pumpers’ suggest lower level of force (with air) than that, for best permanent gains? What this suggest to you?

Originally Posted by marinera
Quote your post where you said that please.

This is what leads you to bias. By the way, you said 5hg is the best level of force for permanent gains, is my memory tricking me? Well, did you know that ‘professional pumpers’ suggest lower level of force (with air) than that, for best permanent gains? What this suggest to you?

Perhaps there is a language barrier here. I said “I didn’t mean to elude it”, which means it was unintentional to not answer your question.

My bias is from experience combined with the Physics of fluid dynamics, as best I understand it. I didn’t say 5 is the best, I just find 5 in hg is best for me, at this time.

Originally Posted by sparkyx
So, we remain at that an impasse. I get your position that the penis cannot expand into an incompressible medium (water), but I’m saying the penis doesn’t push the water out of the cylinder, it merely expands to fill the empty space when water is pumped out. IF YOU DON”T continue to pump additional water out, yes you are right, it cannot cont to expand.

The way I water pump when using a hand pump, is I bring it up to my vacuum level, lets say 5 in hg. As the penis expands, the vacuum level drops, so I pump it up to 5 again. This allows the penis to continue to expand at a force of 5 in hg. IF I didn’t pump the vacuum level up to 5 again, you are right, it would not cont to expand in that environmental, because it would have to push water out of the tube, and the valves of the pump will not allow it.
….


Great. We are addressing the key point finally. Stop here for a moment please: you are at 5hg in water. Which force the penis has to fight to expand? The compressive force of water, right? Which force the penis has to fight when pumping with air? The compressive force of air, right? What those who pump in water feel, is not more expansion, but more force : more compressive force on their penis, which has to fight an higher force to expand.

That’s why they say that, with the same level of force, they get less fluid build up with water pumping than air pumping. No explanation of less fluid build up with water pumping is satisfying, IMHO, other than this : penis, to reach expansion, has to fight more compressive force in water than in air. As an analogy, experienced pumpers do recommends to pump wrapped to minimize fluid build up (I think it was Gprent that gave this advice, could be wrong though).

Now the next stage: when pressure drops, you pump out more water; well, you could pump out more air when pumping with air, when pressure drops - and you’ll need less force than pumping out water. Air can expands means not that much: air will expand only where there is no penis. In the same perspective, penis will expand only where there is no water and will expand more where the water is less dense - at the top of the cylinder.

Giving that the pressure is higher at the bottom, when pumping with water (I know you believe this is a negligible factor, but I don’t believe that), together with the bouyancy force and the compressive force on the sides, you’ll have that, when pumping with water the penis is more pulled ‘ahead’, when pumping with air, penis is expanded in all directions - so, at the same level of total pulling force, you’ll have more girth expansion in air than in water.

Hope it is clear what I’m meaning. This is the picture that, so far, seems more to makes sense to me.

Fuck, it was a fatiguing post.


Last edited by marinera : 08-23-2011 at .

When you’re pumping you’re not using compressive force at all, whether it’s water or air. A vacuum is being created which is creating an extrusive force. If you approach it from that view, I think you’ll see that the penis is not pressing against water, which is less compressible, it’s being extruded by the water.

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