Thunder's Place

The big penis and mens' sexual health source, increasing penis size around the world.

My buddy Dr Kaplan

Originally Posted by deadeye3200

The obvious problem with this if it actually worked, you would need a new tube every two weeks. Maybe if you could make a liner inside the tube that could act as a restraint. Then you would only need a new tube every few months.

You see I want these things to work they just don’t.

Jelqing, stretching and squeezes work and they cost nothing.

I think that you should not pump, deadeye. Instead you should jelk, stretch, and squeeze and get your best shot from those exercises, leaving the pumping to the pumpers.

In another post you said pumping only made your cock purple. That doesn’t seem to happen to many guys who post to the Pumper’s Forum unless they overextend their duration in their tubes.

There are all kinds of ways to do extremist pumping and a whole lot of sites that tell one exactly how to accomplish that. Here we are trying to refine methods that give gains without wearing a penis out because we all want good erectile function to go along with the penises we are modifying upwards as to size.

You do need to read more here, I think, before trying to throw a monkey wrench into a process that has worked for so many.

I agree totally that abuses though a not-well-thought-out pumping program do occur, if that is your point.


_______________

avocet8

Originally Posted by deadeye3200
This is a more objective source for non bias information on a purchase he is considering. And these pumps are over 150 bucks I for one don’t blame him for asking these question.

My Dr. Kaplan cost half of that amount, $75.

I also think the question is well worth asking.

Originally Posted by deadeye3200
And I having experience with pumping have no problem telling of my experience with pumping.
If thats OK with Fubar.

I think you were giving more than your experience. You were making specific statements that went beyond your experience and were untrue generally.

Specifically this statement:

“Pumping doesn’t do a damn thing. I did it for years and got nothing na da zip. Low pressure high pressure doesn’t matter turns your dick purple. If you want a purple dick then I would suggest pumping. It turns it a really ugly purple color”

When you make a broad stroke statement like that, that this is what will happen if you pump, then you should expect to be challenged on that, because that is definitely not what happens to everyone who pumps.

You have not thoroughly described your pumping experience, how you pumped, what pressure, how long or any useful information. Just blanket statements that “pumping doesn’t work”. Thats not much to go on.

Originally Posted by Toolguy
….The benefits I have seen from low-pressure pumping as a supplement to streching and jelqing is super hard erections, pronounced vascularity and girth gains. I have no doubt that pumping brought on these benefits.

I don’t really have a problem with that statement. What I’m saying is don’t think you’re going to shove your dick in some pump and end up with a John Holmes dick. Doesn’t happen. If pumping exclusively produced permanent size gains, they EVERY guy would be hugely hung. I don’t know a buddy who hasn’t heard of vacuum pumping - and they’d all be doing it if then even remotely thought permanent gains were possible.

As I said, those other guys here use regular PE in conjunction with pumping. I don’t doubt that pumping can do *something* for you, combined with a serious PE routine, but I wonder how much of their gains is from manual, and how much from pumping - or the placebo effect of *knowing* that they pump.

Originally Posted by worshack
A little bit of physics:

Wad’s contention that pumping necessarily must only result in surface blood-flow is interesting, but not well founded. One common misconception with negative pressure is that it “sucks” things. Science doesn’t suck. It blows. When you apply negative pressure to a region of space, it is the external pressure that seeks to fill the void.

Imagine that negative pressure is applied to a penis by a penis-pump. The cylinder forms an airlock with the abdominal skin, preventing direct nullification, therefore nature must respond by filling the void with fluid through the vascular system. The external air pressure places a force on the outer surface of the body, which pushes fluid through the afferent vessels into the penis. This afferent fluid can enter in any way - through the surface capillaries and the lymphatics as Wad contends, or through the deep CS/CC supply as pumpers contend. The truth is probably that both occur. When force balance between the external air pressure, the negative pressure, and a summation of the various tissue strengths are reached, the system enters equilibrium. Since the tissues have a positive strength, the vacuum is not obviated, and the penis does not explode (increase the vacuum indefinitely, and this does not hold true).

Wad’s contention that the CS/CC would explode under vacuum pressure is internally inconsistent with his contention that slow hard jelqing works better. Simply, why would the pressures of jelqing be any safer than the pressures of pumping? At 5in Hg, commonly advocated here at Thunders as a max pump pressure, the penis is experiencing a force of ~2.45 psi. The average male can exert more than that pressure in their grip. The difference between pumping and jelqing is that the pumping places that pressure to the entire penis simultaneously and uniformly, whereas jelqing places it’s pressure only to the region ahead of the grip, and on a differential basis with time.

But as any trainer will tell you, in order to increase flexibility, both sustained low level stretch and moderate short stretches are useful (why I can still do splits at 26).

OK, that was rambling, but I hope my point is at least somewhat clear…


Thanks for the physics lesson, now maybe you should go back and read what I really said.

>>”Wad's contention that pumping necessarily must only result in surface blood-flow is interesting, but not well founded.”

It is NOT well founded - nor did I say it. I, in fact, said that pumping does fill the CC/CS fully - “100% erection” I said specifically.

I also know that vacuum doesn’t suck - when the pressure on the outside decreases, the inside pushes out. What I was saying, and still contend, is that a pump will not FORCE blood through the CC/CS the way jelqing does - unless you are pumping at DANGEROUSLY high vacuum pressures.

>>”Wad's contention that the CS/CC would explode under vacuum pressure is internally inconsistent with his contention that slow hard jelqing works better.”

Didn’t say that either, bud. Go back & reread my words. I was saying not to believe for a minute that the super-huge sizes fresh out of the tube were the result of supercharged blood in the CC/CS. I said that much blood would EXPLODE the CC/CS. Again, I stated that pumps cause 100% erectile expansion - the rest of the size is fluid buildup. And it certainly is lymphatic fluid, without question. Which is why monster dick gradually & dramatically shrinks as lymph recycles back into abdomen.

Jelqing & Pumping are 2 entirely different activities which cause different actions.

Jelqing causes direct overexpansion of isolated parts of the CC/CS as the blood volume is pushed forward. Then the pressure is temporarily relieved, and the movement starts again. It is mechanical, direct and usually quite forceful. And the pressures are exerted, at any given time, only momentarily and upon isolated portions of the CC/CS as the blood volume is pushed down the length of the penis. I believe this promotes super-expansion, of portions of the CC/CS, and possibly micro-tearing.

Pumping creates a fairly uniform vacuum, drawing blood into the penis to 100% ERECTION. As the vacuum forces continue, lymphatic fluid starts to accumulate in the penis, over time. This fluid buildup is what produces the extra large sizes out of the tube - it’s not a 120% erection, or a 110% erection. It’s simply a 100% erection - with a lot of fluid on top. If you believe that such activity will result in permanent size increases, sorry to hear that.

Originally Posted by wadzilla
I don’t really have a problem with that statement. What I’m saying is don’t think you’re going to shove your dick in some pump and end up with a John Holmes dick. Doesn’t happen.

Odds are pretty astronomical that anyone is going to do any single exercise and end up with a John Holmes dick.

Pumping is a great tool to in the bag of PE techniques. If you use it properly it has some excellent benefits, not the least of which is great girth.

Originally Posted by wadzilla
If pumping exclusively produced permanent size gains, they EVERY guy would be hugely hung. I don’t know a buddy who hasn’t heard of vacuum pumping - and they’d all be doing it if then even remotely thought permanent gains were possible.

PE takes dedication and time, something most people are not willing to invest. Most guys have no clue how to use a pump (or any other technique) to gain size. Viva le revolution :)

Originally Posted by wadzilla
As I said, those other guys here use regular PE in conjunction with pumping. I don’t doubt that pumping can do *something* for you, combined with a serious PE routine, but I wonder how much of their gains is from manual, and how much from pumping - or the placebo effect of *knowing* that they pump.

You won’t know until you try it and see the benefits for yourself. They are fairly immediate and obvious from my experience.
I had increased vascularity, erection strength and girth gains in a few weeks.

Wad,

Let me attempt to clear up a few concepts for you.

First of all, this is not Tigers forum. Pumpers here are not bloating their cocks up to the size of basketballs with lymph. We are attempting to increase functional size. Lymphatic bloat is a side effect that we have found ways to eliminate or minimize.

Second, as has been stated at least twice on this thread, a vacuum doesn’t “draw”. In a balanced pressure system, the external force pressing “inward” is matched by the internal pressures pushing “outward”. This is a normal condition.

As the pressure of the blood in the penis increases during erection, the penis expands until the tissues of the penis are producing a force equal to the internal expansive force. This is a “100%” erection. A balanced system.

The sum total of the compressive force is composed of a combination of the tissues tensile integrity COMBINED with the atmospheric pressure pressing inward. The sum total of the expansive forces is the internal blood pressures developed in the erection process (valves, chemicals, blood pressure, muscles).

By DECREASING the atmospheric pressure inward (vacuum pump), you have now created a RELATIVE increase of the internal pressures. Hence a “120%” or more erection.

Where pumpers can go wrong in my opinion, is if they do not maintain an erection in the tube. This can be determined by feeling the part of your penis that is out of the tube. If it is hard, you are producing productive net forces or the “120%” erection. If it is soft, you are not taking advantage of the decreased atmospheric inward forces.

Many of us pumpers have experienced expansion of the penis after pumping, without the sponginess that indicates lymph fluid migration. I would refer you to the “Condom Pumping” thread.

There are at least several long time members of this forum, who state that they have personally experienced permanent gains (as much as any other method) from pumping alone.

Why is that unacceptable to you? What evidence do you have that brings their findings and veracity into question?

Sparkyx

Originally Posted by Toolguy
My Dr. Kaplan cost half of that amount, $75.


Well the price must of went down because I paid 120 for the pump and the tube and that was years ago.

Originally Posted by Toolguy
I think you were giving more than your experience. You were making specific statements that went beyond your experience and were untrue generally.


If I say I pumped for 5 years and didn’t grow any. How the hell is that not true? Thats basically my main point with this thread. But you find this statement un true. So you must have some inside knowledge of the size of my dick.

Originally Posted by Toolguy
I said
“Pumping doesn’t do a damn thing. I did it for years and got nothing na da zip. Low pressure high pressure doesn’t matter turns your dick purple. If you want a purple dick then I would suggest pumping. It turns it a really ugly purple color”

You stated
When you make a broad stroke statement like that, that this is what will happen if you pump, then you should expect to be challenged on that, because that is definitely not what happens to everyone who pumps.

You have not thoroughly described your pumping experience, how you pumped, what pressure, how long or any useful information. Just blanket statements that “pumping doesn’t work”. Thats not much to go on.


You want details? I did it for 5 years don’t you think I pretty much tried everything? I agree I didn’t go into details. And maybe I shouldn’t be telling people it doesn’t work.
And I did say in an earlier post that I did just what Kaplan suggested.

I used heat and pumped three to four times a week. And originally Kaplan said try to get the pressure up to 15. Then later when I broke my first tube and bought another he said don’t pump past 10.

I’ve waisted allot of my time with pumping alone and I haven’t said anything bad about pumping in this forum until now. And every time I read where people are asking questions about pumps I think to myself, oh my God he is waisting time with that thing. If I can save someone else from the mistakes I’ve made maybe it could be worth it.

With all that said I still use the thing. I posted and explained how I still use the freaking pump. The difference is now I use the pump as a supplement to PE and not as a form of PE.


The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I am sorry that you are an unhappy pumping customer, deadeye. Read more, you might learn some useful tips from the rest of us.

If you were told by Kaplan to pump up to 15 HG, you were given very inaccurate information. Few of us, even seasoned pumpers, can comfortably sustain that.

Toolguy was very fair in his response to your negativity. Your response: “You want details? I did it for 5 years don’t you think I pretty much tried everything?”

We have no idea what you did in your cylinder. My guess: If you were doing 15 HG, there is no surprise at all that your cock turned purple. And I am wondering why, your cock turning purple and whatever, that you continued to do what you were doing, for five years. Normally, a person would call Kaplan, an upfront pump manufacturer and say, “WTF is going on here? My cock turns purple.” But you apprarently kept going, from the way you describe it.

But you are here now and if you like, we will give you sensible pumping pointers - if you can get that chip off your shoulder and work with the rest of us who are always learning new and undamaging tricks with pumping and with PE in general.


_______________

avocet8

Originally Posted by deadeye3200
…. I did just what Kaplan suggested.
I used heat and pumped three to four times a week. And originally Kaplan said try to get the pressure up to 15. Then later when I broke my first tube and bought another he said don’t pump past 10…

deadeye,

With such high pressure, I can understand why you suffered unpleasant results. I always try to stay in the pressure range of 4 - 6 ” hg. I wouldn’t even dare to subject my dick to the extreme pressures that you did.

Peforeal


Forum Guidelines PAST: 5.25"L x 4.75"G (base),EBP (January 2001) / PRESENT: 7.50"L x 7.00G (base),EBP It doesn't happen overnight! Commitment! Focus! Patience!/ Main Routine = Pumping/Jelqing/clamping + Homedic TheraP or ACE Wrap TheraP or ACE Wrap

Avocet, I agree with you that I don’t know enough about proper pumping methods. And I apologize to you and Toolguy for being blunt with you. I do need to get the chip off.


The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

The written instructions which accompanied my Dr. Joel pump and tubes said not to go past 25hg for the penis alone and not past 10hg with the balls inside the bigger tube. Plus, the pictures of penises inside the tube were all purple.

Originally Posted by sparkyx
Where pumpers can go wrong in my opinion, is if they do not maintain an erection in the tube. This can be determined by feeling the part of your penis that is out of the tube. If it is hard, you are producing productive net forces or the “120%” erection. If it is soft, you are not taking advantage of the decreased atmospheric inward forces.

Many of us pumpers have experienced expansion of the penis after pumping, without the sponginess that indicates lymph fluid migration. I would refer you to the “Condom Pumping” thread.

There are at least several long time members of this forum, who state that they have personally experienced permanent gains (as much as any other method) from pumping alone.

Why is that unacceptable to you? What evidence do you have that brings their findings and veracity into question?

Sparkyx

1) How can you achieve a “120% erection” when the tunica cannot expand beyond it’s present (100%) size capacity? That’s illogical. The tunica is extremely tough. To attempt to overinflate it beyond 100% of it’s capacity would result in a catastrophic injury. But I believe that jelqing can “momentarily” push the tunica beyond 100% in isolated areas (probably just forward of the grip, etc.). I believe that this momentary & isolated super-expansion is what leads to jelqing gains. This type of over-expansion cannot happen uniformly under continuous vacuum pressure. What happens when the CC/CS completely fill up (“100% erection”) - and pressure continues - is fluid buildup, giving the appearance of 100%+ erections.

2) The physiology of pumping doesn’t lend itself to permanent size increases. Look, the medical community doesn’t endorse PE in general - but I’d suspect that little if any serious research has been done by them regarding manual PE. However, these pumps have been around for many years. Doctors know about them, urologists, sex therapists, etc. There is not one shred of evidence that pumping produces any permanent increases; in fact, the experts (who are quite familiar with these devices) insist that there are NO permanent size increases from vacuum pumping.

3) You say I question the accuracy/veracity of pumpers here who claim to have gotten permanent size gains from pumping alone. Are you suggesting I should question the accuracy/veracity of the many pumpers on the other forums who’ve all said the opposite (no permanent gains - even after 20 years)??

From March to May of this year, I took 2 months off PE - cold turkey. I lost a whopping total of 1/2 mm length & 1 mm girth (wooohooooo!). Right now, I’ve gone 17 days without any PE whatsoever (not even piss pulls), and I’ve lost absolutely nothing. I plan on continuing this complete deconditioning break for 4 months (until March 2, 2005).

I challenge any pumper to do this. Lock up your pump for 4 months, or 2 months - or even 17 days - and see what happens. Do you think if you don’t pump for 2 months you’ll only lose 1mm of girth?

Look up your pump and don’t do any PE whatsoever….and see what happens. (I already know what will happen, but maybe some guys need to see for themselves).

God dammit Wad, you can be a pain in the ass sometimes. You are generalizing again. These other guys said you can’t gain from pumping, so you are buying it.

Why is it not possible to get a 120% erection, with the extra 20% spread over the entire surface area of your dick, but you can get an extra 20% in an isolated area by jelqing? Splain that to me, if you would please. And maybe splain how the removal of external pressure would not have an effect on your dick, the same way clamping would.

Willya, please?


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Originally Posted by ThunderSS
God dammit Wad, you can be a pain in the ass sometimes. You are generalizing again. These other guys said you can’t gain from pumping, so you are buying it.

Why is it not possible to get a 120% erection, with the extra 20% spread over the entire surface area of your dick, but you can get an extra 20% in an isolated area by jelqing? Splain that to me, if you would please. And maybe splain how the removal of external pressure would not have an effect on your dick, the same way clamping would.

Willya, please?

Thunder,
Medical professionals, especially urologists, who have experience with vacuum pumping all say that it cannot promote permanent penis enlargement. I’m not arbitrarily choosing whom to believe (the jaded pumpers vs the pumpers here), but you cannot deny that urologists side with those who say that they’ve gained no permanent size from pumping - even after 20 years.

As I’ve said, I know the docs say manual PE is bogus also, but I doubt that any of them know shit about our techniques - unlike vacuum pumping. It’s reasonable to believe that urologists, who’ve recommended pumping to their ED patients, know a thing or two about the procedures. But how many docs know about jelqs, A-Stretches, Dual Fulcrum, etc.??

And the way that isolated pressure/expansion can exceed normal maximums would be because other parts of the tunica (not under pressure) would give up some slack. In other words, it takes far less internal pressure - throughout the penis - to overexpand just a portion of it, and temporarily at that. With the pressure focused on a smaller area, I believe the tunica walls would give a little; whereas, if the unit were erect (as it is during pumping) the entire tunica is under pressure and therefore is much more rigid. (Think of the tunica as a semi-rigid conduit which assumes full strength/stubborness only under maximal erection….when you’re jelqing at about 75%, for example, the tunica is not as rigid as it is when you’re at 100% wood - don’t you wonder why most PE vets caution against erect jelqs or erect bends? Why is jelqing at 75% quite safe, but 100% is considerably more risky?).

As per clamping vs vacuum pressure, I feel that some of these same principles come into play. You generally can’t maintain 100% wood while clamping - unlike being in the tube. Furthermore, I believe that clamping probably exerts more force on the less-than-100%-wood than vacuum can draw. Again, that’s assuming that you’re not pumping with dangerous levels of vacuum. But the clamp actually digs into the shaft, blocking the blood flow. The vacuum exerts a general, constant outward pressure across the entire surface area of the penis - it’s more diffuse, and it tends to draw out the lymphatic fluids.

And, yes, I can be a pain in the ass. However, I still challenge the pumpers to lock up their pumps for 2 months - then measure. I’m game; in fact, I’m going for 4 months.

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