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Observations and Questions on Extenders

Static Stretching Seems to Promote Excellent Growth

I’m posting it again, in that it was ignored the first time. You will find a lot of pertinent discussions here.

Again, I think the two basic mechanisms are stretching and growth. I think the forces needed for each preclude the other. So, you MAY need to dial back the force enough on extenders (and increase time) to where it is worthless for stretching, but creates growth.

For stretching, you probably need force ranges that greatly restrict time and may stop the growth mechanism. The analogy used in the thread (and I agree with) is how tissue grows as you get fat. Very low, but prolonged forces.

If that is correct, it may be the most common mistake with extenders is too little time and too much force. I was hoping someone would have some research that could shed light on that concept.

Originally Posted by sparkyx
Static Stretching Seems to Promote Excellent Growth

I’m posting it again, in that it was ignored the first time. You will find a lot of pertinent discussions here.

Again, I think the two basic mechanisms are stretching and growth. I think the forces needed for each preclude the other. So, you MAY need to dial back the force enough on extenders (and increase time) to where it is worthless for stretching, but creates growth.

For stretching, you probably need force ranges that greatly restrict time and may stop the growth mechanism. The analogy used in the thread (and I agree with) is how tissue grows as you get fat. Very low, but prolonged forces.

If that is correct, it may be the most common mistake with extenders is too little time and too much force. I was hoping someone would have some research that could shed light on that concept.

Thanks for getting us to refocus on this. I did start reading it last time but got lost in the first few pages. Will now try to read the whole thread to find the gems. The extender he is using does not look much different to my slider with the velcro head. I am sure I could wear it for longer periods without a break if I dropped the tension. The real issue is stealth and mobility as you about day to day tasks so you can get the long stretch times in. Golf weights, Xeno’s Cock Coil or a leg or waist attached ADS should achieve the same thing with better stealth and mobility outcomes.

The second issue is - Does this concept work after you have already got good newbie gains? I got over an 1 1/4” in a year or so with a conventional extender approach and then plateaued. My current approach which I recently started is to add the ADS time on top of my normal extending and pumping routine and see how it goes. Am currently doing it with golf weights but will move to a Cock coil when the lead arrives for me to make one.

Coated lead, I hope.

Originally Posted by marinera
Coated lead, I hope.

Yes I will follow Xeno’s lead and use heatshrink with end seals. However I am no expert on the health effects of Pb but gather the real risk is from ingesting the oxide especially in the case of children. So I will use good hygiene during construction. Xeno emphasizes the health risk aspects in his Cock Coil thread.

That’s a good thing. Better safe than sorry. :)

Originally Posted by austfred
Thanks for getting us to refocus on this. I did start reading it last time but got lost in the first few pages. Will now try to read the whole thread to find the gems. The extender he is using does not look much different to my slider with the velcro head. I am sure I could wear it for longer periods without a break if I dropped the tension. The real issue is stealth and mobility as you about day to day tasks so you can get the long stretch times in. Golf weights, Xeno’s Cock Coil or a leg or waist attached ADS should achieve the same thing with better stealth and mobility outcomes.

The second issue is - Does this concept work after you have already got good newbie gains? I got over an 1 1/4” in a year or so with a conventional extender approach and then plateaued. My current approach which I recently started is to add the ADS time on top of my normal extending and pumping routine and see how it goes. Am currently doing it with golf weights but will move to a Cock coil when the lead arrives for me to make one.

My gut feeling is that constant, low stress is what triggers growth. I think if the forces go up and down, like bouncing golf wts, or the leg or waist thingy…if it pulls harder than looser…will interfere with the effect.

Much of the connective tissues have wavy structures in them. I believe the newbie gains occur when you straighten out the “waves”…and it usually falls in a similar range of gains. After that, its real growth that must occur to continue to gain with any real results (all my speculation). I believe constant low forces for prolonged time frames (?) can stimulate growth….again think of skin, fascia, nerves and blood vessels that grow when you gain fat or muscle size.

I really wonder if mixing forces would halt gains with the “growth” mechanism?

Originally Posted by austfred
Yes I will follow Xeno’s lead and use heatshrink with end seals. However I am no expert on the health effects of Pb but gather the real risk is from ingesting the oxide especially in the case of children. So I will use good hygiene during construction. Xeno emphasizes the health risk aspects in his Cock Coil thread.

Yes, I would assume it could be absorbed through the skin.

I agree, Sparkyx. But do you think there is a threshold of force, and what it is?

Edit: had to say better, ‘a range of force’. When it’s too much and when it’s too low. It is our ethernal problem knowing this. Studies linked previously show that cellullar proliferation starts with even an infinitesimal force. But is cellular proliferation ‘growth’? Is more collagenous tissue better or does it meas a stronger tunica?

Wow, missed a lot of discussion here. I’ve been away, but I just got back.

OK, so some commentary:

That old stress relaxation thread spakyx posted: I have always loved this dude’s extender design. It is a shame he never spoke more about HOW to make it. It is do damned stealth and the dude was wearing it for three days straight sometimes and claimed pretty amazing results with it.

Cyclic stretching: this is not what we want. Cyclic stretching of connective tissue actually causes it to grow in thickness, not in length. If you look at the tendons and ligaments in the knees of an Olympic weightlifter or the same structures in the hands of a boxer or martial artist, you will find some very thick, strong connective tissue.

Collagen crimp: this could be responsible for a bit of newbie gains, but generally the loss of crimp is described as connective tissue laxity and in other connective tissues of the body it is not a very good thing. I’m not sure if this would complicate penile function, but it is not desirable when it is found elsewhere. I think a greater portion of newbie gains could come from connective tissues beginning to synthesize more elastin and in essence becoming more stretchy. I know firegoat has a good post about this somewhere, I will try and find it.

Stretching threshold to stimulate growth: Marinera is correct that this probably doesn’t really exist in actuality, but below a certain level of strain collagen synthesis will be only elevated minimally. It’s rate of synthesis is strain dependent, in other words. Well it is to a point anyway, once the “yield” region on the stress-strain curve is reached, you will actually begin experiencing a net collagen loss as the fibroblasts actually shut down their collagen gene transcription at that point. But that point would require some VERY high force length work.

Roots

Originally Posted by marinera
I agree, Sparkyx. But do you think there is a threshold of force, and what it is?

Edit: had to say better, ‘a range of force’. When it’s too much and when it’s too low. It is our ethernal problem knowing this. Studies linked previously show that cellullar proliferation starts with even an infinitesimal force. But is cellular proliferation ‘growth’? Is more collagenous tissue better or does it meas a stronger tunica?


Those really are the million dollar questions.

For growth, I think there is a minimum and a max. Below the minimum…nothing. Above the maximum, I think the “growth” stimulation turns off and something else happens. What those levels are, I would only be guessing. But from the previous threads, many times it seems success was inhibited with too much tension. I truly TRULY wish we could define those perimeters (if they are even real) because I think that would make what we are trying to do much more effective.

What seems to happen recently is that many guys aren’t getting gains with their extenders until they up the force considerably and cut their time down. I think they have slipped into “hanging” ranges, and are using their extenders as hangers, for deformation and creep.

There are enough that have managed to use very low forces for more than 8 hours a day that have gotten very good results…but are in the minority. I think they are in the minority because we have a very hard time being patient and being able to use low force…because it seems that more is always better. When I think of the “getting fat” model, it make sense that low force long duration could easily be the key for growth.

Originally Posted by rootsnatty

That old stress relaxation thread spakyx posted: I have always loved this dude’s extender design. It is a shame he never spoke more about HOW to make it. It is do damned stealth and the dude was wearing it for three days straight sometimes and claimed pretty amazing results with it.

I have one, never really used it much. HOWEVER, I used the bioadhesive (soft sticky sheet of medical grade silicon) to create an “around the waist” extender that I could wear for 12 hours straight very comfortably. I never saw gains with it, and used it daily for a few weeks. There is a good chance I was using too much force (or the concept doesn’t work…its one of those).

I always recall when I saw studies where they lengthened the legs on children by putting rods in them with external traction devices (an extender type thing) and they would slowly turn the screws on it to lengthen the bones. They were able to add like 5-6 inches of height for these kids! However, the tension was never off, it was 24/7. When the tension decreased from growth, then they would turn the screws a little again.

This was lengthening bones, connective tissues, fascia, nerves, blood vessels and skin. I figured if you can grow longer legs, you can lengthen your third leg…but perhaps it also needs to be constant or at least many hours a day.

Originally Posted by rootsnatty
.

Collagen crimp: this could be responsible for a bit of newbie gains, but generally the loss of crimp is described as connective tissue laxity and in other connective tissues of the body it is not a very good thing. I’m not sure if this would complicate penile function, but it is not desirable when it is found elsewhere. I think a greater portion of newbie gains could come from connective tissues beginning to synthesize more elastin and in essence becoming more stretchy. I know firegoat has a good post about this somewhere, I will try and find i

If the gains come with permanently enlarged flaccid I say that is the case for stretched “crimp”. If the flaccid remains about the same, but larger erection…good case for more elastin. In reality its probably a mix of both.

Originally Posted by sparkyx
If the gains come with permanently enlarged flaccid I say that is the case for stretched “crimp”. If the flaccid remains about the same, but larger erection…good case for more elastin. In reality its probably a mix of both.

With my newbie gains, my flaccid grew significantly before I got any erect gains and even now my flaccid has grown much more proportionally than my erect length. I assumed some of it was from stretched ligaments pulling some of it out of its root. I read somewhere else here on Thunders that some of the surgeons who do penis enlargement ops will not do them on men who have been doing PE because of this. My crimp might have been exaggerated as I had previously shrunk from my youth. However now my flaccid is much larger than I remember from my youth. Gone from a grower to a shower.

Originally Posted by sparkyx

I always recall when I saw studies where they lengthened the legs on children by putting rods in them with external traction devices (an extender type thing) and they would slowly turn the screws on it to lengthen the bones. They were able to add like 5-6 inches of height for these kids! However, the tension was never off, it was 24/7. When the tension decreased from growth, then they would turn the screws a little again…

As I’ve said before, caution is in order in referencing things that are completely unrelated physiologically, if only for the sake of fact. But it also tends to lead thinking in the wrong direction. The process above, distraction osteogenesis, involves surgically breaking the bone and new growth occurs in the gap. It is a very interesting topic and of the man who discovered it.

In the other thread mentioned (49 pages!), many were interested in confirmed gains but there did not seem to be any positive illustration of any by that device. One guy said he had gotten significant flaccid hang but not growth. The truth is out there. May be in the X-Files.

Originally Posted by Ectospasm
As I’ve said before, caution is in order in referencing things that are completely unrelated physiologically, if only for the sake of fact. But it also tends to lead thinking in the wrong direction. The process above, distraction osteogenesis, involves surgically breaking the bone and new growth occurs in the gap. It is a very interesting topic and of the man who discovered it.

In the other thread mentioned (49 pages!), many were interested in confirmed gains but there did not seem to be any positive illustration of any by that device. One guy said he had gotten significant flaccid hang but not growth. The truth is out there. May be in the X-Files.

The bone study I am thinking of, I don’t believe breaking the bone was involved but my memory may not be accurate. With the static stretcher, the creator reported gains, but I don’t recall anyone else repeating it….so thats suspect. Ok, did a search and it did involve fracturing the bone.

I am thinking of taking another run at it, this time with less force. I will let you guys know if I do.


Last edited by sparkyx : 10-30-2014 at .
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