Thunder's Place

The big penis and mens' sexual health source, increasing penis size around the world.

Penis Enlargement Skeptic?

@Marinera you need to educate yourself on how the burden of proof works. It’s not on me to dispute claims with no backing evidence, it’s on you to prove their validity

Https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof

Well, I will tell you this much teardrop. Take a good honest before measurement with the best EQ you can muster, Then do the newbie routine for 3months and take good honest measurements again and compare the differences.

I personally have gained ~1.5”s of erect length and ~ .25” of mid shaft erect girth since late december/early january of 2013. I have kind of back off into more of a maintenance routine for a while to cement the gains I have made and in January will start back up with heavy duty PE again.

You can doubt my gains all you want because honestly they are quite not the “normal” *(as in it is very unusual for someone to gain that much that fast) but the easy gains stopped a while back and I didn’t see any point in forcing things *(you only have one dick, take good care of it).

PE works if you put in the time and dedication. I am fortunate not to have to hide my PE activities from my wife as she is very accepting and appreciative of my efforts to be a better man for her. That wiki article you linked to is pretty much horseshit and the proof in that pudding is “surgery works”. Read some real life experiences of men who had their ligs cut and the majority *(that i have read) will tell you it was not worth the money and pain/suffering for what they got out of it.

I will store my soap box now but before you make any more assumptions or judgments give PE 3months of honest hard work and see for yourself.


I have achieved my short term goals 7 x 6++ 17.78cm bpelx 15.2cm mseg 17.1cm beg...

long term goal 8 x current girth

Originally Posted by teardrop

If you don’t believe the sources I’m posting, why then are you trying to use them against me. Nothing you posted has refuted anything I’ve said by the way.

Because even according to your own sources you are wrong. What I’ve posted refuted what you said:

Originally Posted by teardropo
….scientific studies have repeatedly concluded that none of these methods (barring surgery) works.

none of this methods you said. Now pumping and traction do work. Just remains that there isn’t any scientific study on jelqing, so you have no scientific proofs it works, no scientific proofs it doesn’t work. This all according you your source alone. What it prove is that you haven’t even read your source, so guess what any objective person would think about the reasons you registered and started posting?

Originally Posted by teardrop
@Marinera you need to educate yourself on how the burden of proof works. It’s not on me to dispute claims with no backing evidence, it’s on you to prove their validity

Https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof


That’s you who should learn. You made the claim that PE doesn’t work, you have to prove it. I am not making any claim that it works or not. If you were really interested you gave it a try, instead you are just trolling.

Originally Posted by marinera
Because even according to your own sources you are wrong. What I’ve posted refuted what you said:

None of this methods you said. Now pumping and traction do work. Just remains that there isn’t any scientific study on jelqing, so you have no scientific proofs it works, no scientific proofs it doesn’t work. This all according you your source alone. What it prove is that you haven’t even read your source, so guess what any objective person would think about the reasons you registered and started posting?


Ok I’ll be sure to watch my tongue around you for the short time I plan on remaining here because you take things extremely literally

The pumping method doesn’t increase size, only illusion of size. I wasn’t talking about the appearance of size, I was talkign about actual size. So you’re wrong in that regard.

And seeing as they disregard the studies used in the traction method because of their unreliable methodology, I don’t count that either. You can call anything a scientific study, for example the self-reportings of the members of this site, but that doesn’t make good science. But so we’re clear from here on out, I meant accurate studies with large sample sizes and proven methodologies.

Originally Posted by marinera

Instead you are just trolling.

I’m bored. Bye guy.

Originally Posted by teardrop
I’m a skeptic by nature and am not so inclined to believe these miraculous gains of 2+ inches when scientific studies have repeatedly concluded that none of these methods (barring surgery) works. Have people here posted pics of their gains? It’s hard enough to discern between what is and isn’t a gain, and what might just be variations in measurement (due to BPEL vs. NBPEL, weather, etc). With the internet people have a natural tendency to inflate their #’s I think

That said, would it be worth my time if I already have an above average member (I think)? Looking to appeal to size queens ;)

All you have to do is search a little:

Before-and-After Measurement Pictures


05/06/2013: BPEL: 6.250" | MSEG: 5.125" | BPFSL: 6.250" | MSFG: 4.375"

10/15/2013: BPEL: 7.000" | MSEG: 5.375" | BPFSL: 7.563" | MSFG: 4.750"

Goals: BPEL: 7" ACHIEVED New goals: BPEL: 7.5" | MSEG: 5.75" | Brad the Bartender's Progress Log and Pics

Originally Posted by teardrop
…..
The pumping method doesn’t increase size, only illusion of size. I wasn’t talking about the appearance of size, I was talkign about actual size. So you’re wrong in that regard.
….

Really? Where is the scientific proof that vacuum pumping can’t increase the size?

“BJU Int. 2010 Oct;106(8):1178-80. doi: 10.1111/j.1464-410X.2010.09365.x.
The role of vacuum pump therapy to mechanically straighten the penis in Peyronie’s disease.
Raheem AA, Garaffa G, Raheem TA, Dixon M, Kayes A, Christopher N, Ralph D.
Source
Department of Urology, St Peter’s Hospitals and The Institute of, Urology, London, UK. amr_raheem@hotmail.com
Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
to assess the efficacy of vacuum therapy in mechanically straightening the penile curvature of Peyronie’s disease (PD).
PATIENTS AND METHODS:
Modelling of the tunica albuginea has been shown to be possible during penile implant surgery and this principle has been applied as an alternative conservative therapy. In all, 31 patients with PD (mean duration 9.9 months; mean age 51 years, range 24-71) completed the study. Over a 12-week period, the patients used a vacuum device (Osbon ErecAid, MediPlus, High Wycombe, UK) for 10 min twice daily. The assessment at study entry and at completion after 12 weeks included the International Index of Erectile Function questionnaire, a perceived pain intensity score, stretched penile length measurement and the angle of penile deformity after an intracavernous injection with prostaglandin E1.

RESULTS:
there was a clinically and statistically significant improvement in penile length, angle of curvature and pain after 12 weeks of using the vacuum pump.
Of the 31 patients, 21 had a reduction in the angle of curvature by 5-25 degrees, three had worsening of the curvature and there was no change in the remaining seven. The curvature was corrected surgically in 15 patients while the remaining 16 (51%) were satisfied with the outcome.
CONCLUSION:
vacuum therapy can improve or stabilize the curvature of PD, is safe to use in all stages of the disease, and might reduce the number of patients going on to surgery.”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20438558

BJU Int. 2006 Apr;97(4):777-8.
A vacuum device for penile elongation: fact or fiction?
Aghamir MK, Hosseini R, Alizadeh F.
Source
Department of Urology, Tehran University of Medical Sciences, Iran.
Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
To assess the efficacy of a vacuum device as a noninvasive method for penile elongation.
PATIENTS AND METHODS:
Between September 2003 and November 2004, 37 sexually active men with a stretched penis length of <10 cm were given vacuum treatment three times a week, for 20 min on each occasion, for 6 months.
RESULTS:
After 6 months, the mean penile length had increased from 7.6 cm to 7.9 cm (no significant difference).
The efficacy of vacuum treatment was approximately 10%, and the patient satisfaction rate was 30%. There was one case of haematoma of the penis and one of glans numbness, both resolved spontaneously without any intervention.
CONCLUSION:
Vacuum treatment of the penis is not an effective method for penile elongation, but provides psychological satisfaction for some men.”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16536772

Interesting: 3mm gain on 7.6 cm is not significative?. I think a guy who is 6” wouldn’t dislike to gain 1/4” pumping for 20 minutes every other day (which is an improper routine for anyone interested in gains). Any reasonable person would take this study as an indice that vacuum pumping can be effective, and not just ‘apparent’.

Originally Posted by teardrop
…..
And seeing as they disregard the studies used in the traction method because of their unreliable methodology, I don’t count that either. You can call anything a scientific study, for example the self-reportings of the members of this site, but that doesn’t make good science. But so we’re clear from here on out, I meant accurate studies with large sample sizes and proven methodologies.

I call ‘a scientific study’ not what the staff of Mayo Clinic writes on his website trying to sell you penis enarlgement surgery, but what has been published on peer reviewd journals:
“J Sex Med. 2011 Nov;8(11):3188-92. doi: 10.1111/j.1743-6109.2009.01662.x. Epub 2010 Jan 19.
Effect of penile-extender device in increasing penile size in men with shortened penis: preliminary results.
Nikoobakht M, Shahnazari A, Rezaeidanesh M, Mehrsai A, Pourmand G.
Source
Urology Research Center, Sina Hospital, Tehran University of Medical Sciences, Tehran, Iran. nikoobakht_r@live.com
Abstract
INTRODUCTION:
It has been suggested that the application of penile-extender devices increases penile length and circumference. However, there are a few scientific studies in this field.
AIMS:
The aim of this study was to assess the efficacy of a penile-extender (Golden Erect(®) , Ronas Tajhiz Teb, Tehran, Iran) in increasing penile size.
METHODS:
This prospective study was performed on subjects complaining about “short penis” who were presented to our clinic between September 15, 2008 and December 15, 2008. After measuring the penile length in flaccid and stretched forms and penile circumference, patients were instructed to wear Golden Erect(®) , 4-6 hours per day during the first 2 weeks and then 9 hours per day until the end of the third month. The subjects were also trained how to increase the force of the device during determined intervals. The patients were visited at the end of the first and third months, and penile length and circumference were measured and compared with baseline.
MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:
The primary end point of the study was changes in flaccid and stretched penile lengths compared with the baseline size during the 3 months follow-up.
RESULTS:
Twenty-three cases with a mean age of 26.5 ± 8.1 years entered the study. The mean flaccid penile length increased from 8.8 ± 1.2 cm to 10.1 ± 1.2 cm and 10.5 ± 1.2 cm, respectively, in the first and third months of follow-up, which was statistically significant (P < 0.05). Mean stretched penile length also significantly increased from 11.5 ± 1.0 cm to, respectively, 12.4 ± 1.3 cm and 13.2 ± 1.4 cm during the first and second follow-up (P < 0.05). No significant difference was found regarding proximal penile girth. However, it was not the same regarding the circumference of the glans penis (9.3 ± 0.86 cm vs. 8.8 ± 0.66 cm, P < 0.05).
CONCLUSION:
Our findings supported the efficacy of the device in increasing penile length. Our result also suggested the possibility of glans penis girth enhancement using penile extender. Performing more studies is recommended.”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20102448

“BJU Int. 2009 Mar;103(6):793-7. doi: 10.1111/j.1464-410X.2008.08083.x. Epub 2008 Oct 16.
A pilot phase-II prospective study to test the ‘efficacy’ and tolerability of a penile-extender device in the treatment of ‘short penis’.
Gontero P, Di Marco M, Giubilei G, Bartoletti R, Pappagallo G, Tizzani A, Mondaini N.
Source
Dipartimento di Discipline Medico Chirurgiche, Urologia 1, San Giovanni Battista Hospital, University of Turin, Turin, Italy. paolo.gontero@unito.it
Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
To assess a commonly marketed brand of penile extender, the Andro-Penis(R) (Andromedical, Madrid, Spain), widely used devices which aim to increase penile size, in a phase II single-arm study powered to detect significant changes in penile size, as despite their widespread use, there is little scientific evidence to support their potential clinical utility in the treatment of patients with inadequate penile dimensions.
PATIENTS AND METHODS:
Fifteen patients were required to test the efficacy of the device, assuming an effect size of >0.8. Eligible patients were counselled how to use the penile extender for at least 4 h/day for 6 months. Penile dimensions were measured at baseline and after 1, 3, 6 and 12 months (end of study). The erectile function (EF) domain of the International Index of EF was administered at baseline and at the end of the study. Treatment satisfaction was assessed using an institutional unvalidated five-item questionnaire.
RESULTS:
After 6 months the mean gain in length was significant, meeting the goals of the effect size, at 2.3 and 1.7 cm for the flaccid and stretched penis, respectively. No significant changes in penile girth were detected. The EF domain scores improved significantly at the end of study. Treatment satisfaction scores were consistent with acceptable to good improvement in all items, except for penile girth, where the score was either ‘no change’ or ‘mild improvement’.
CONCLUSIONS:
Penile extenders should be regarded as a minimally invasive and effective treatment option to elongate the penile shaft in patients seeking treatment for a short penis.”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18990153

“…in 2001, Scroppo and colleagues [10] reported the results of a small study that investigated the use of penile traction to treat PD curvature. Eight men with PD and no complaints of ED were instructed to use a penile traction device for at least 4 hours per day for a total treatment period of 3-6 months. The authors reported a statistically significant decrease in mean erect curvature of 14° (from 34 to 20°). However, this study involved a very small cohort of patients with no control group.

Several years later, Moncada-Iribarren and colleagues [11] reported on the use of a traction device to treat penile shortening that had occurred after PD surgery. A total of 40 men participated in this study, with 12 undergoing a grafting procedure while the remaining 28 underwent plication only. One-half of the patients were treated with penile traction and the other half served as the control group.

The penile extender was first instituted once the surgical incision had healed (approximately 2-3 weeks) for 8-12 hours daily for a total treatment period of at least 4 months. For both groups, penile shortening after surgery ranged from 0.5-4.0 cm. Those patients in the treatment group experienced a length increase ranging from 1-3 cm and this increase was proportional to the number of hours per month that the patient was wearing the extender. The authors also studied the potential impact of the device on the quality of life of their study groups and identified significant differences in several parameters for the patients using the device versus those in the control group.

In 2008, Levine and colleagues [12] reported the results of a study of 11 men with PD who underwent treatment with a penile traction device. All participants were evaluated with pre-treatment measurement of stretched penile length from pubis to corona, and a dynamic color duplex ultrasound was performed with measurement of curvature and girth at maximal erection. Of the 11 men who entered the study, one subject dropped out due to inability to comply with the treatment protocol. Patients were instructed to wear the device for a minimum of 2 hours per day but were encouraged to increase the duration of use to a maximum of 8 hours per day. Treatment was continued for a total of 6 months. Every 2 weeks, the extender rods were lengthened by 0.5 cm, and repeat length measurements were recorded every month during an office visit.

Of the 10 men who completed the study, all reported subjective improvements in length and curvature of 0.5-2.5 cm and 10-40°, respectively. Objectively, mean penile stretched length increased from 0.5-2.0 cm and curvature had been reduced by 10-45° (mean of 22°). There were no patient-described changes regarding penile sensation, worsening erectile function, or skin injury. Overall, patients reported high satisfaction rates and improvements in International Index of Erectile Function (IIEF) scores.”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2924711/

One can play the scholar skeptic and call this ‘not concluisve evidence’, but it is hard to deny that, far from being true that there are scientific studies who prove that PE can’t work, the few scientific studies performed show that PE can actually work and should by far be preferred to surgery.


Last edited by marinera : 09-08-2013 at .

Nice work finding all that.

PE does work.


I have achieved my short term goals 7 x 6++ 17.78cm bpelx 15.2cm mseg 17.1cm beg...

long term goal 8 x current girth

Thanks for the correction, it looks you are right :
“Surgery is risky and may not work

Studies have shown that the majority of men who undergo penis-enlargement surgery aren’t satisfied with the results. At best, surgery may add half an inch (1 cm) to the length of the flaccid penis. At worst, surgery can result in complications such as infection, scarring, and loss of sensation or function.”
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/pe…NSECTIONGROUP=2

So it’s not true either that MC said that penis enlargement surgery has scientic endorsement as Teardrop seemed to imply.

There are a number of threads here from people who have had penis enlargement surgery and been traumatised by the results. It’s certainly a field for butchers.


Thunder's Place: increasing penis size one dick at a time.

Welcome to Thunder’s Place teardrop. I see you have ordered the “skeptic’s special”… served hot and fresh daily. :)

Skepticism is a more than welcome trait here. I came here with just as much skepticism as you seem to have, however I quickly decided to try and prove it or disprove it for myself (as I do most things in my life). You have seen the reaction of expecting someone else to prove it to you, perhaps it seems a little harsh, but we get requests and sometimes demand for proof all the time. We are not selling a product or surgery so we have nothing to back up or prove so we don’t wave studies around to entice would be “customers” like other places and products.

This is a place where people trying to figure it out meet and share ideas. A true forum for ideas, rather than a commercial mutation that most other online forums have become.

If you think you can help us fit in any pieces into this puzzle we call PE, then by all means stay and help us figure this out!

I wish you the best in your journey. :)


Keep an open mind and a closed wallet... unless it's open to making a donation!

Well said cantlook.

In over 16 years of maintaining a free penis enlargement info web site, I can’t think of any time when I’ve tried to prove anything to anybody. In the early years, I had people tell me I was lying and full of shit, but then there were a few grateful emails from guys whose lives I’d changed by giving them the tools and confidence to try to prove it for themselves. (For the millions of people who have visited my site, I have had amazingly little feedback.)

I find the B&A photos quite compelling; enough (and of all degrees of quality) exist by now that image manipulation is clearly not the cause.

I can’t prove my dick got bigger, but can tell an anecdote that has nothing to do with sex, self-esteem, or showing off (are there any other reasons guys want a bigger dick?): until age 42, when I lay in bed on my back (I sleep naked), my flaccid penis had neither the length nor mass to do anything other than stick straight up. A couple of months into weight hanging, I realized one day that it now lay on its side. Now that I’ve said it, it’s obvious and anyone could make that claim, but until now it’s something that I don’t think would occur to someone who hadn’t experienced that transformation.

Originally Posted by memento

So as a skeptic what can you do?

Use your hands or weights. Or go away. Or both.

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