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Back in condition: The high weight/fatigue struggle

Originally Posted by hobby
Doing a little of this and a little of that is a good recipe for strengthening, which is what we don’t want. Another issue is time. I doubt a set or two per day in a given position is enough to make the best progress. Maybe it is in the first week or weeks, but you’re better off hanging more sets. Time under tension seems to be one important factor. The more the better. Also, by hanging more sets (in a single position) you can attain and ride fatigue using lighter weight.

Please elaborate on this. I’m particularly interested in the first sentence. I always thought that unnecessary strengthening was primarily from fatiguing more than necessary to stimulate growth. I never thought of it as something that you could get while doing too little for significant growth. I’m the new one to hanging though and am very interested in hearing more.

Where were all you guys when I was getting ragged on for my all day hanging routine?

Anyway -

I’ve been talking with bib and miscellaneous other hangers, and the theory of focusing angles is pretty much undisputed. You need to flog a particular angle, day in and day out until gains stop with it. Let me take it one step farther than that though, and say that if you reach fatigue on one angle for the day, that if you have time it’s OK to switch it up to another. I personally can’t gain a damn thing from BTC because my suspensory lig is cut, so I start at OTS and work it down to SO, sometimes hitting the sides with OTL (and such) if I’m not geting fatigue by the second set.

Bib thinks that fatigue should be determined by half your max weight.. i.e. if you can’t last 20 minutes at 8 lbs when your max is 16, you’re done. I had been hanging all the way down to 2lbs at a given angle for a while, but his theory was that there was a point (around half max) where you get dimishing returns. That means, for instance, that the hour you spend going down from 8 to 2 hanging ots (when your max is 16) would be better spent going from 16 to 8 SO (or however much you can tolerate at a given angle). Knowing how fast I recover, I could probably do this 24/7.. that’d be a fun experiment. Guinness PE records anyone?

Time, as a factor in hanging, and in PE is constantly disputed. You’ve got the every-other-week-pull-on-your-penis-for-5-seconds-and-leave-it-alone camp, and the kamikaze bib-style-fall-off-the-face-of-the-earth-cause-i’m-hanging-all-day camp. I’m going with the latter if we’re talking about successful hangers. These are the guys that are doing it the right way, for the right amount of time, to produce tissue deformation. You can talk all day on here about how much you hang for 60 minutes a day and the “science” of why you’re not gaining.. it doesn’t really matter.. albeit slow and steady, I’ve gained over an inch with the latter approach.. little bit of FSL here bit of BPEL there.. varies. And it’s from the all day pulling the tissues out of shape till it hurts! hanging. And ADS.. sparse jelqing/pumping/clamping. Sorry, you need to damage some tissues with this method of PE. I have some extra violins in case anyone needs one.

So, after some encouragement from bib and some tips on hanger attachment, I’ve decided to continue hanging more and smarter. Some of you guys aparently know your stuff when it comes to hanging.. it’d be great to swap tips n tricks.

vkn1 - from what I gather, you’re not going to avoid strengthening. Bib’s max weight was 40 at the time he slowed down. We all have *other* stuff to do besides hanging, in which time our dicks will not be under tension. The point is to sustain it hurting, for lack of better word, when you go to hang the next time, and/or add weight that will bring that same feeling about within 2 sets. You want that sprained ankle discomfort feeling, that’s the fatigue, and even though it’s a bitch you want it as long as possible. Optimally. If you have to go to work and can only get 2 sets in, do it.

Looking forward to hearing more..

lostracco


"HALT! This is a no-turtle zone."

5/14/09 - BPEL 7.0" BPFSL 8.25" EG 4.5"

1/1/10 - BPEL 7.5" BPFSL 9.0" EG 5.0" - GOAL

Originally Posted by vkn1

Please elaborate on this. I’m particularly interested in the first sentence. I always thought that unnecessary strengthening was primarily from fatiguing more than necessary to stimulate growth. I never thought of it as something that you could get while doing too little for significant growth. I’m the new one to hanging though and am very interested in hearing more.

I meant strengthening without making good progress. For example, I could hang one set a day, gradually increasing the weight. I wouldn’t gain (at least not optimally), but the tissues would become tougher. Hanging enough to cause conditioning but too little to make good progress seems counterproductive.

I think you’re finding out just how unfriendly this forum is to people that hang. I too have been “ragged on” for the mere suggestion that arbitrary rest days in ones routine is counterproductive to management of fatigue. And, pointing out the flaws in utilizing PI’s in a hanging regimen. What’s funny is that the “ragging” is usually from people that do not hang per se (trolls). I’ve even been “ragged on” by a moderator for my participation in the art of hanging, I should be utilizing a ADS instead – it’s safer. Go figure.

I also understand your request that noob’s and non gainers not respond to your post. I take it that you are frustrated and simply trying to weed out all the trolls. Me, I’d be happy if those that were not actively engaged in the art of hanging would stop posting their opinions in the hanging forum. I would never go into the pumping forum and give advice. Why that type of conduct is allowed in the hanger’s forum is beyond me. I’ve read your thread on your all day hanging routine. It brought out the non-hanging trolls in droves.

I’ve also read your thread over on Bib’s forum. Overall, I think you are on the right track. I am in a similar situation with skin issues with higher weights. For me, I realized that my skin had not ‘caught up’ with my added length. So, I’ve had to go back to stretching skin again. You know, ‘divide and conquer’.

Good luck to you!


Then (4.5 nbpel x 4.75 mseg)

Now (5.625 nbpel, x 5.25 mseg)

It would be typical of a supervisory entity to ignore any ideas or wisdom contained herein and focus on a sideways comment.

However I do enjoy my membership at Thunders.

No more violin comments, I promise.

lostracco


"HALT! This is a no-turtle zone."

5/14/09 - BPEL 7.0" BPFSL 8.25" EG 4.5"

1/1/10 - BPEL 7.5" BPFSL 9.0" EG 5.0" - GOAL

Dick,

I’ve read some of your discussions, and it seems to me that those you call trolls, would normally be defined as not being in agreement with you. Nothing I say will ever change your mind about that, it seems to be your outlook on life. But beware that it is not the normal definition of troll or trollish behaviour, nor is your definition of being “ragged upon” the common understanding either.

Dick and lostracco,

As for the sideways comment about “n00bs and non gainers”, Thunder pretty well explained why the request was counterproductive. And if either of you had thought about it a second, you’d understand that arrogance and hostility do not blend well with a request for help - it kind of turns people off.

There are at least two ways of getting the same effect without the arrogance - (1) to specifically request the help of the experienced (which you DID get) or (2) to not mention the issue at all, and then when someone posts something off topic, ask more specifically to keep on topic.

We hold this place to high standards. If that is too much to ask of you in your communication with others, then you are better off reading only.


regards, mgus

Taped onto the dashboard of a car at a junkyard, I once found the following: "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." The car was crashed.

Primary goal: To have an EQ above average (i.e. streetsmart, compassionate about life and happy) Secondary goal: to make an anagram of my signature denoting how I feel about my gains

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…people that do not hang per se (trolls)

Oh, so that’s what “people” that don’t hang are called. I’d been calling them “females” or “eunuchs”. Thanks for that!

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Me, I’d be happy if those that were not actively engaged in the art of hanging would stop posting their opinions in the hanging forum.

Good idea: new rule, must be hanging while posting in forum!

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I think you’re finding out just how unfriendly this forum is to people that hang.

Riiight. That’s why it’s called the “Hanger’s Forum”.

You were taken to task for your suggestion that the purpose of hanging is to damage the penis.

I also called you because you advocated an extreme routine for “penis enlargement. Not, erection enhancement.”, yet your stats say you’ve lost penis size.

Care to explain that one, Dick?

“N00bs and non-gainers?”
What about those “actively involved” in “Penis Reduction”?

GM

p.s.: I’m a hanger, I’ve gained, and I’ve been practicing PE for almost 20 years. OK if I respond? Oh, and I am actually hanging right now: or is that too much information?

Originally Posted by mgus

Dick,

I’ve read some of your discussions, and it seems to me that those you call trolls, would normally be defined as not being in agreement with you. Nothing I say will ever change your mind about that, it seems to be your outlook on life. But beware that it is not the normal definition of troll or trollish behaviour, nor is your definition of being “ragged upon” the common understanding either.

Your armchair psychoanalyst routine may gain you accolades within your circle of friends. However, it is nothing more than an ad hominem intended to dissuade from a mature discussion and further reinforces my point about ‘Thunder trolls’. If you disagree with my opinion about the culture or attitudes of many on Thunders then please I would love to discuss it with you. Beforehand, maybe you should re-read the forum guidelines and in the future try to address my opinions and ideas and not me personally, unless of course they were solely intended for us plebeians.


Then (4.5 nbpel x 4.75 mseg)

Now (5.625 nbpel, x 5.25 mseg)

Dick, if you consider the mods here “trolls”, why do you continue to post? If you want to end your membership here, it can be easily arranged.

Originally Posted by Dick Builder
. And, pointing out the flaws in utilizing PI’s in a hanging regimen.

I’m coming in late here, but I’d like to comment. As the author of the PI approach, I must say that I often state that in hanging, I like Monty’s approach. I really don’t know how much PI approach directly applies to hanging.

I’m not a hanging expert, but it seems to me that the PI approach may not really translate over to hanging all that well. It seems to me that hanging is directly addressing connective tissue, all by itself. If thats the case, the PI approach may not apply. I think the PI approach really is addressing smooth muscle reaction during PE and its effect on gains.

It strike me that if you hang, to stretch or effect the connective tissue, then use ADS to control contraction due to smooth muscle insult, you will be using a completely different set of guidelines.

If that is correct, it probably IS counter productive to take any time off, that constant ADS between heavier stress is probably more effective than time off where smooth muscle could contract and hold the micro tears in a contracted state, allowing gains to be lost and even become shorter than before.

The only way I see time off being productive is if you hold it in an extended state with ADS until healing is done, then time off as a decon to reset on a cellular level.

Sparkyx, that’s pretty much how I look at it. My best post-newbie hanging results came from hanging every day, and usually 2 sessions per day at that. Trying a similar approach with a manual routine resulted in what is now being called negative PI’s. For a while I had some shrinkage. Yep, slightly shorter BPEL and BPFSL. I’ve never had that when hanging.

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We hold this place to high standards. If that is too much to ask of you in your communication with others, then you are better off reading only.

I agree. PM ThunderSS if you feel like losing the arrogance and hostility routine.

GM

Sparky - Thank you for clearing that up - I think that one should be isolated (bumped?), by a mod, in a seperate thread, at the TOP of the hangers forum. I think it would clear up a LOT of the bad advice people are giving, that dickbuilder and myself were pointing to.

I think your PI theories are what inspire people to give this advice when it comes to hanging, but little do they know the difference when it comes to what hanging is actually doing to the tissues.. (can you tell I’m not a scientist?) versus what other excercises (like jelqing) are doing.

Again someone should put sparky’s post in big bold letters on the top of the hangers forum. Neon letters. And please do quote him as the author of the PI theory.

I hope this will open some doors to understanding.. and more gains for the hangers!

lostracco


"HALT! This is a no-turtle zone."

5/14/09 - BPEL 7.0" BPFSL 8.25" EG 4.5"

1/1/10 - BPEL 7.5" BPFSL 9.0" EG 5.0" - GOAL

I suspect most who have significant experience hanging beyond any easy newbie gains generally agree that taking days off from hanging merely for the sake of doing so is counterproductive.

On the manual PE side, Sparky has done an excellent job of explaining what many had been experiencing but hadn’t been able to finger. Overtraining was well known, yet little understood.

As said before, hanging and manual PE seem to be apples and oranges. I learned not to approach them the same way.

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