Thunder's Place

The big penis and mens' sexual health source, increasing penis size around the world.

Point at which you feel kegal


My erection angle is also slightly above 9 o’clock.

Also, could you look at my earler 3-17 post and give me some feedback?

Much appreciated.

Jelktoid :trash: More meat for the money!

Dash's info

Here is my info BIB,

Kegal pull loss: 9:00
Length 7 3/8
PE career 5 months
Gains 1.75 inches
EA 9:00
Was Hanging, Extreme Ulis, and jelqing
Now manual stretching and wet jelqing mostly

Hey Bib, sorry I didn’t see this sooner. Here is my information.

Kegal pull loss: 6:00
Length 6 3/4
PE career 19 months
Gains zero
EA 8:00
Manual stretching, DLD blasters, JAI, Jelqing/Power jelqing, Uli, Hanging

In what ways can I exercise my tunica? I’m using the hanger but what should I do?

Kegal pull loss: 7-8:00
Length 7.75 bpel
PE career 16 months
Gains bpfsl +2.125; bpel +1.875
EA 9:00


Check it out guys, no need to have a big dick if you ain't gonna use it!!


>My question for you is would you recommend that I use the starter or the regular?<

Either one. I don’t think it would make a dimes worth of difference. Depending on the amount of weight used and the tightness of the hanger, the regular is going to stress almost the same amount of shaft as the Starter.

> When you hung with the modified Bib, was it closer in size to the starter or the regular? <

I did not hang with the modified Bib very long. But it was closer to Starter size. Within a few months, I had developed a hanger with hinge and lateral compression. My final homemade hanger that I made for myself was 4.5 inches long. One inch longer than a regular production Bib.


6 _7oclock no tug

( 9months start 5 1/2 buy 4 1/2 now 7 1/4 buy 5 almost half

Warm up
kelgs with dld blasters 20 min
A s

10min Jelq
5min horse bends


Got to have the rest of your data to be any good.


Every time somebody adds more data, I have to redo the spreadsheet. I will add some more later, so you can continue to post your data. But I want to get some results posted so the discussion can continue. Then, we will make it better with more results. I don’t think the final answers are going to change much with more information.



Boy, it would be interesting to see a photo of that last homemade hanger. Do you stii have it? It ought to be in the Smithsonian.

Jelktoid :trash: More meat for the money!


> Boy, it would be interesting to see a photo of that last homemade hanger. Do you stii have it? It ought to be in the Smithsonian. <

Yes, I still have all my crap. You should see the progression of the production hanger. I don’t have a dig cam. Smith…who?



The shorter, tighter or higher the ligs, the higher the angle required to lose ‘tugback’ when stretching the penis and kegaling at the same time.

The shorter, tighter, or higher the ligs, the more ‘inner’ penis, and the more quick, easy gains which are possible, and possibly the more total gains which are possible as the ligs are lengthened.

The longer, looser, or lower the ligs, the less ‘inner’ penis, and the harder the gains and possibly less total gains which are possible.

The longer time spent PEing, the lower the angle at which tugback is lost due to a lengthening of the ligs. This assumes PE is performed at lower angles, at least somewhat, by all subjects.

The less time spent PEing, the higher the angle at which tugback is lost because ligs have not been stretched.

For those with shorter, tighter, or higher ligs, a lengthening of the ligs correlates with a lowering of angle of tugback loss, and an increase in penis length.

Assumption: Those with more length gains started with shorter, tighter, or higher ligs and their ligs have been lengthened through PE. It would be nice to have starting measures for tugback loss and erection angle, but I think the stats speak to this problem. I know that for myself, before PE, my tugback loss angle HAD to be extremely high. If you started with high ligs, and you have made good gains, you will probably recognize that your entire package is now lower, indicating an increase in the length of your ligs.

As concerns erection angle vs. tugback angle loss, it must be realized that other factors affect erection angle other than lig tightness such as erection strength and tunica shape.


I used Excel to create a table of data. Then, I correlated the variables in pairs. The only calculation made from the data was gains per month. The variable, “loss of tugback” is abbreviated as LOT. It is measured from 12:00 or straight up, to 6:00 or straight down.

The following is a rough analysis of the data given by the above 24 guys. With only 24 subjects, the results cannot be deemed to be conclusive, but I think it points to some definite tendencies and some rough guidelines can be produced. Hopefully, we can get some more participants to improve the reliability of the theories.

I will look at the data in three groupings and discuss the relevant correlations: Total participants, guys over and under 1.5 inches of total gains, and guys over and under 0.083 inches gained per month.

Total data:

Only minor correlations can be found when looking at all participants. Apart from things that are obvious, such as total length being highly correlated with gains (0.875), there is only one relevant correlation. That is as time goes on, gains per month goes down, correlation= -0.605.

There are minor negative correlations between LOT and total length (-0.27), and LOT and gains (-0.24). This is a result of big gainers lowering the LOT as gains and therefore total length increase.

There is also a slight correlation between LOT and erect angle (0.22). The lower the angle of LOT the more lig stretch and gains. The looser ligs result is a slightly lower erection angle. This shows up in the amount of time spent PEing and erection angle with a (-0.356) correlation.


It has been obvious to me for a long time that physiology has a lot to do with gains. I think this can be examined by everyone, and especially new guys by testing the LOT and comparing to others. So, in this context, I wanted to look at two groups, high gainers and low gainers. For this analysis, I divided the two groups by the median total gain which is 1.325 inches. This gave two equal groups. The high gain group contains RB, DLD, Avocet, Dino, SWM, Goingdeep, toid, dasheming, Hobby, luv, Pinocchio, and me. The low group contains restnom, Growingup, WestLA, Long2Blong, Realpuffus, Phat, Johan, SS4, Sappy, j384, Penismith, and mike2002.

Things become somewhat clearer when looking at the data in this manner. It becomes obvious that for the high group, as LOT goes down, gains (-0.768) and total length (-0.712) go up. For the low group, there was NO correlation.

Truly interesting is the correlation between erection angle and LOT. For the high group, as LOT goes down, erection angle goes up (-.044). For the low group, as LOT goes up, erection angle goes up (.053)!!

Also, the relation to time and gains per month is clear; (-0.73) for the high group, and (-0.63) for the low group.

Gains per month:

The next step was to further group the data by dividing into two groups according to gains per month. This gives the ability to see the problem with hard gainers.

The median of the 24 subjects is 0.083inches per month. Those in the higher group are; RB, DLD, avocet, Growingup, WestLA, Long2Blong, goingdeep, toid, dasheming, Hobby, luv, and me. Those in the lower group are; retsnom, Realpuffus, Dino, SWM, Phat, Johan, SS4, Sappy, Pinocchio, j384, Penismith, and mike2002.

These groupings revealed some interesting results.

For the high group, as total length is increased, LOT is decreased (-0.75). For the low group, there is a small POSITIVE correlation (0.19). Also, for the high group, as gains go up, LOT goes down (-0.756). For the low group, as gains go up, LOT also goes UP (0.433)!

For the high group, as time goes up, LOT goes down ((-0.72). For the low group, there is again a small POSITIVE correlation (0.25).


So what does all this mean? I think the best way to examine it is to look at individuals. First, as I said before, the assumption is that big gainers started with high tight ligs. That was my situation. Looking at the big gainers, the more gains, the lower the LOT. This seems to firmly indicate a lengthening of the ligs allowing a significant portion of penis to be revealed. The biggest gainer, DLD has the lowest LOT, 6:00. RB, avocet, toid, and I are tied for 2nd at 7:00. While some of us could profit from more lig work, the majority of future gains will come from tunica stretch. We have some long ligs.

The other members of the high group, while getting good gains, probably mostly from lig stretch, still have good potential for gains in the ligs, either hanging or stretching at lower angles. Dasheming has already gained 1.75”, but has a LOT of 9. He might be a big’un some day.

Gains problems in the lower group are evident. The problems of Johan, Sappy, SS4, j384, Penismith, and mike2002 are fairly plain. They all have very low LOTs, but not much gain to show for it. Their LOTs are as low as the big gainers. To me, this indicates that they ALWAYS had a low exit point and therefore little inner penis. They did not have the opportunity to get any easy gains. Through hard work, several of them have made gains over time, probably mainly through tunica stretch. They should concentrate on working the upper angles of hang or stretch. Also, DLD twists and upward lateral stretches might be the ticket. With consistent dedicated stress, at the upper angle, they should make progress.

Retsnom, Realpuffas, Dino, SWM, Phat, and Pinocchio are a little different. They do have potential in their ligs to gain more length from lig stretch, even though some of them have already gained pretty well. But they have had to put in a tremendous amount of time and effort to get those gains, probably because of some really genetically tough collagenous tissues. Sometimes, that is just the way it is. The only thing to do is try to find ways to increase the stress, still working lower angles, and they should be able to get plenty more gains.

I had a lot of other crap I wanted to write about, but damned if I can remember what they were. Questions would be appreciated.


Sorry Bib. I wanted to add to this, but was still healing from the injury.

No longer experience a ‘tug back’: Still feel it slightly at 5o’clock. None at 6.

Doing PE for 2 years and 6 months.
Current: bpel 8”x5.625”.
Gains: 3.5” in length and 2.125” in girth.
Erection Angle: 9-10 o’clock.

Techniques: Manual jelqed and manual stretched probably 75% of time I’ve done PE. I’ve done V-stretches for many months and more recently “A” stretches. 3-4 months of hanging. Few months with Power Jelq. And few months of doing squeezes.

"It doesn't matter where you start, it only matters where you end up."

Bib. This is fascinating.

I don’t know if you remember the old urologist who chatted on the old pe forum and posted his analysis before he left ezboard. His analysis smacks in the face of your thesis - not that I’m personally disagreeing.

Do you remember he said how those individuals that whilst lying on their backs and their penis lay down between their legs, had loose ligs (and presumably low LOTs), and therefore, more promising future gains; and those individuals that whilst lying on their backs and their penis rested on their stomach (and presumably high LOTs), had tight ligs, and therefore, less promising future gains.

Quite interesting really, considering the fact that it sounds like he got it so so wrong.


I forgot to add and wasn’t allowed to edit.

“P.S. My LOT is roughly at 9:00 - i.e., it’s there but very weak. I have experienced no gains - perhaps 0.25” in girth. My erection angle is between 10 and 11 O’Clock. My stats are 6 * 4.75. I’ve experimented - with little consistency - in hanging, jelqing, and power-jelqing. Would you say 2” of length is an unrealistic goal? Cheers Bib.”

I think your analysis has some validity, of course more data and time will be of great value to your study.

About 1 month ago my gains began to slow a bit and my belief is that I had achieved a large portion of my early gains from lig stretch. I decided to switch my routine to one that hits the tunica along with the ligs and I believe my gains will be steady but slow in the coming months.

Your theory certainly fits my case and I believe is worthy of PE member attention to aid in setting realistic and achievable goals and expectations along with a targeted PE routine. In my case, I believe I can now expect yet some lig related gains along with tunica related gains so my routine is designed to target this combination. One day in the future I expect my lig related gains to be exhausted and my routine will focus mostly on the tunica. Then the day will come for me when I will up the girth routine.

Thanks for taking the time to run the numbers and share. Your efforts have and will continue to help this group with your advanced observations. Thanks!

I have never lived this long before. - Dash

Bib you never cease to amaze me. I think we have always had a similar belief that the PC muscle play a HUGE role in gains. I was trained very early in my program to realize the importance of this muscle and the many roles it plays in not only PE but many other areas. The PC muscle, tunica and ligs have always been my main focus when I develop an exercise. I think the days of blindly training a penis for enlargement are coming to an end. With data such as this and the numerous studies by members of both forums I think we are working smarter and more focused everyday. Since I have been involved with PE I have seen it grow to a very specialized science thanks to great men like yourself. I hope that this study will even more light on the importance of the PC Muscle and how specialized PE can work to bring maximin gains. Thanks Again DLD

Link to the DLD Blasters Soon to be Triple


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