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Loading, lengthening, healing.

Yes, Dicko, that’s what I mean.

Elastic gains are not gains.

If one stretch with a significative load, after a couple of, let’s say, 30” stretches, your penis is not elongated anymore. Also, it tends to return to it’s original length.

Rigorously speaking, deformability means that a thing can be elongated; elasticity means that a thing tends to return to it’s original lenght when the load is ceased.

If you repeat the stretches again and again, you are avoiding the elastic reponse - that’s why you can hung a bit more when flaccid.

Add even more stretch, and your tissues are having significative damages, so you don’t hung longer - you actually have shrinkage. This is a sign you have to rest.

The theory we are speaking of suggests to stretch even when this contraction is happening: this, again, to give you the illusion that tissue are deforming right now.
I think what is happening now is : you are causing a noticeable amount of damage (micro-tears), strengthening too much tissues : if permanent elongation is what you want, this is not the best approach.

Repeat this kind of work day after day, month after month. You can have gains, but the price you have to pay is: over-strengthened tissues, higher risks of injuries. The adaptation process is not optimal: you are having, at some degree, a kind of pathological adaptation (don’t take the word “pathological” in a too much technique meaning, however).

So, in synthesis, when the optimal work has been done, more work is unuseful.

This optimal work is a dependent variable of time X tension - but unfortunately, there is not a linear relation.

Is this clear? What do you think about?


Last edited by marinera : 06-19-2008 at .

I think marinera said it best: non-linear relation. From all my research it seems that high tension and low tight does NOT equal low tension with high time.

Thank you, LV, but, in fairness, I don’t think I’m the first who noted this absence of linearity.

Let me throw something in here.

You’re supposed to stop hanging, or switch angles, at the point that you reach total fatigue. If BTC you can’t handle 2 lbs of weight, switch to OTS or SO.

Once you fatigue that part of the penis, there’s no point in hanging more on it. There’s other parts that can be worked on and deformed.

I guess I’m trying to clear up everyone’s definition of all day hanging, constant tension. Yeah, something’s being pulled on all day, but for anyone who knows what they’re doing, that’ll be left lig/right lig/right tunica/left tunica/septum at different times (for instance).

I’d say it takes a good 4 hour break (for me) on one tissue set after fatiguing it (not being able to hang) to be able to go back to it and hang anything.

So.. I think marinera is actually RIGHT.. in the fact that constant tension on one set (aka hanging 30 lbs BTC ALL DAY) would cause injury.

All day hang does not equal all day on one set.

~L


"HALT! This is a no-turtle zone."

5/14/09 - BPEL 7.0" BPFSL 8.25" EG 4.5"

1/1/10 - BPEL 7.5" BPFSL 9.0" EG 5.0" - GOAL

Originally Posted by marinera
Thank you, LV, but, in fairness, I don’t think I’m the first who noted this absence of linearity.

Yeah but from all the new threads I’m seeing in the hanging forum it seems that a lot of people don’t want to pay attention to it lol.

Originally Posted by firegoat
Dancers, gymnasts, yoga practitioners etc. greatly increase the resting length of their muscles, tendons and ligaments through daily or at least very regular stretching. They do not need to remain in a stretched position between sessions in order to increase their flexibility, they just need to be consistent enough to not allow the tissues to contract too much between stretching sessions.
We know that their tissues are actually lengthened, rather than just becoming more elastic, because if you take a gymnasts limbs through their ROM (range of motion), they have great range before any significant degree of elastic resistance is encountered. We too only need be consistent, we don’t actually have to actively be stretching the tissues between PE sessions in order to lengthen the tissues.

That’s some really good insight. Thanks firegoat!

Thank you all for replies, I can see that I’ve made clear my foremost basilar points:

Originally Posted by lostracco
……………..
Once you fatigue that part of the penis, there’s no point in hanging more on it.

Right: supposing that pushing ad infinitum on a given bodypart will give continually augmenting gain is a naive, unsupported idea, basing on what we know.

Right also Long Vehicle: you’re pointing that another form of the mistake assumption many PEers are doing is: “If loading my penis with 10 lbs x 1h per day can give 1/2” gains in 6 months, then loading my penis with 20 lbs x 4h per day will give 4” gains in six months.” Chances are that these PEers will have less gains and/or injuries.

Kojack10, that’s true: the core point here is what firegoat said in so good way that re-reading, from time to time, his post, can avoid disappointement with results for many dedicated PEers.

However, since some fellows are complaining that my views about the adaptation process of connective tissue is unclear, I want to post a clear (at least to me) reading on this subject:


PART 1
SOFT TISSUE DAMAGE AND HEALING:
THEORY AND TECHNIQUES
A. Mechanisms of Injury
……………………..
Usually, direct trauma refers to an injury occurring from blunt trauma or
a sudden overload, and is known as macrotrauma, i.e., true muscle tear or ligament
sprain. In contrast, indirect trauma results from repeated submaximal loading,
leading to clinical signs and symptoms. Injury presents itself in three stages: acute,
subacute/overuse, and acute/chronic.
…………………………………
The subacute/overuse stage occurs when increased loads degenerate body tissues due
to excessive cumulative loading, leading to microtrauma and an accompanying
inflammatory response (e.g. achilles tendinitis in the endurance athlete or runner,
Figure 9-1). The last type, acute/chronic stage, integrates both cumulative loading
and sudden overloading (e.g. chronic achilles tendinosis that ruptures in a long
jumper).
……………….
Any activity loads and deforms tissue, an effect known as a stress/strain, and
described through a load and tissue elongation curve. As connective tissue is
deformed it either stretches or tears, depending on the magnitude, rate, and intensity
at which the loading occurs. Collagen deforms under low loading and fails at high
loads. When the load is removed from normal tissue during the elastic phase, the
material returns to its pre-stretch length.Injury occurs when the tissue is stretched
into the plastic phase, causing tissue failure.

Of all the tissues involved, tendon is the least elastic. The most frequent site of
injury in muscle strains is the myotendinal junction, because of increased collagen
content at the transition zone of muscle sheath to tendon.
………………………
C. The Wound Healing Process
1. Reaction: The Inflammatory Phase
This first phase can last up to 72 hours, and involves a number of inflammatory
responses, manifested by pain, swelling, redness, and increased local temperature.
……………………..
2. Regeneration and Repair: The Fibro-elastic/Collagen-forming Phase
This phase lasts from 48 hours up to 6 weeks. During this time structures are
rebuilt and regeneration occurs. Fibroblasts begin to synthesise scar tissue. These
cells produce Type III collagen, which appears in about four days, and is random
and immature in its fiber organisation. Capillary budding occurs, bringing nutrition
to the area, and collagen cross-linking begins. As the process proceeds, the number
of fibroblasts decreases as more collagen is laid down. This phase ends with the
beginning of wound contracture and shortening of the margins of the injured area.
…………………………….
3. Remodelling Phase
This phase lasts from 3 weeks to 12 months. Gradually, cross-linking and
shortening of the collagen fibers promote formation of a tight, strong scar. It is
characterised by remodelling of collagen so as to increase the functional capabilities
of the muscle, tendon, or other tissues. Final aggregation, orientation, and
arrangement of collagen fibers occur during this phase.
Regeneration of the injured muscle does not fully restore muscle tissue to its
prior levels, as fibrous scar tissue slows muscle healing. The two processes of
healing and fibrosis compete with each other and impair complete regeneration.”

Full text is free available here:
http://www.iaaf.org/mm/Document/imported/42032.pdf


Last edited by marinera : 06-21-2008 at .

Well Gee. That’s exactly what I said in 2003 and given the above phases is exactly what we need to create length, maintaining the 2nd phase condition perpetually and disallowing the 3rd. What took so long? It’s worked for me for the last 3 years.

Glad to see your finally on board Marinera.

I feel like we have converted a Democrat to a Republican by his objecting to being taxed out of his money for welfare involuntarily.


09-2003 BPEL:6.0x5.5

11-2004 BPEL:8.25x6.25 . . 9+ by Spring is the goal AIR CLAMP

Now BPEL:8 5/8 x 6 5/8 PE Weights

Corporations on welfare. Come to think of it, that’s where the economy is probably going. Isn’t that what Bear & Stearns was about?


09-2003 BPEL:6.0x5.5

11-2004 BPEL:8.25x6.25 . . 9+ by Spring is the goal AIR CLAMP

Now BPEL:8 5/8 x 6 5/8 PE Weights

Originally Posted by Monty530
Well Gee. That’s exactly what I said in 2003 and given the above phases is exactly what we need to create length, maintaining the 2nd phase condition perpetually and disallowing the 3rd.
…………………..

If so, you think that you should rest for at least 48 h after some day of work, not continue to work :


2. Regeneration and Repair: The Fibro-elastic/Collagen-forming Phase
This phase lasts from 48 hours up to 6 weeks. During this time structures are
rebuilt and regeneration occurs. Fibroblasts begin to synthesise scar tissue. These
cells produce Type III collagen, which appears in about four days, and is random
and immature in its fiber organisation. Capillary budding occurs, bringing nutrition
to the area, and collagen cross-linking begins. As the process proceeds, the number
of fibroblasts decreases as more collagen is laid down. This phase ends with the
beginning of wound contracture and shortening of the margins of the injured area.

Of course, penile tissue is similar but not exactly the same thing than tendons and ligs - maybe it needs less rest, may more - who knows?

The point here is: how could you go “disallowing the 3rd phase?” That’s what you get, I think :

The subacute/overuse stage occurs when increased loads degenerate body tissues due
to excessive cumulative loading, leading to microtrauma and an accompanying
inflammatory response (e.g. achilles tendinitis in the endurance athlete or runner,
Figure 9-1). The last type, acute/chronic stage, integrates both cumulative loading
and sudden overloading (e.g. chronic achilles tendinosis that ruptures in a long
jumper).

So, glad to see you finally onboard, Monty.

Just kidding, thanks for your views.

Quote
If so, you think that you should rest for at least 48 h after some day of work, not continue to work

No, that’s not what I said and I don’t appreciate you putting words in my mouth. Your conclusions about my thoughts are misconstrued.

You have your concept of how to manipulate biology and I don’t agree. That’s not based on your logic against mine it has more to do with my experience and accomplishments. Where’s yours.


09-2003 BPEL:6.0x5.5

11-2004 BPEL:8.25x6.25 . . 9+ by Spring is the goal AIR CLAMP

Now BPEL:8 5/8 x 6 5/8 PE Weights

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