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Gaining at Higher Angles

Originally Posted by rootsnatty

A great deal of people. …

Do you have any statistics? Say for population in the 18-30 years old age? And you have any reliable reference that cutting the ligs gives erect gains? Something not coming from people who performs penile surgery, preferably.

Wow this took off. So would one say that I made no gains hanging btc and am noticing gains ots because I have ling ligs? Its weird because i see i do have a low exit poibt but also the hugh erection angle/upward curve which I thought meant tight high ligs. My body doesnt seem to make sense ha.

Originally Posted by NeverEnough9
Wow this took off. So would one say that I made no gains hanging btc and am noticing gains ots because I have ling ligs? Its weird because i see i do have a low exit poibt but also the hugh erection angle/upward curve which I thought meant tight high ligs. My body doesnt seem to make sense ha.

I have no idea about erection angle and I don’t think there is a correlation with erection angle and exit point but from the hangers forum I have noticed that people with high to very high exit point seem to gain quickly from BTC angles.

Bib always will recommend people start BTC and the ones that get frustrated are usually the ones with low exit points. Don’t know why but it is a pattern that happens frequently. They usually gain when they switch to higher angles. However, those gains seem to take longer and require greater amount of hours and weight.

Perhaps you should read into fulcrum hanging. I haven’t done that myself but I believe it is what people with low exit points tend to do.


12/11/2013 BPEL 5 3/4 NBPEL 5 1/16 BPFSL 6 1/16 NBPFSL 5, EG Base 5 EG Mid 4 7/8 EG Below Glans 4 3/4

11/02/15 BPEL 7 1/8”, BPFSL 8 1/16”, EG Mid 5 1/4 —- Goals BPEL 7 1/2”, NBPEL 6 1/2", BPFSL 9” Motivational Resources Wanted

8/9/2014 259 lbs ---- 11/2/15 248 lbs 33.2% body fat Bhcentral's Progress Reports and Pictures

Originally Posted by bhcentral
I have no idea about erection angle and I don’t think there is a correlation with erection angle and exit point but from the hangers forum I have noticed that people with high to very high exit point seem to gain quickly from BTC angles.

Bib always will recommend people start BTC and the ones that get frustrated are usually the ones with low exit points. Don’t know why but it is a pattern that happens frequently. They usually gain when they switch to higher angles. However, those gains seem to take longer and require greater amount of hours and weight.

Perhaps you should read into fulcrum hanging. I haven’t done that myself but I believe it is what people with low exit points tend to do.

Yea ive actually thrown in a set a day if fulcrum hanging over a broomstick. Seem to hit fatigue quickly but it sure isnt very comfortable lol

I don’t have experience with it but you can probably find some tips to make things better.


12/11/2013 BPEL 5 3/4 NBPEL 5 1/16 BPFSL 6 1/16 NBPFSL 5, EG Base 5 EG Mid 4 7/8 EG Below Glans 4 3/4

11/02/15 BPEL 7 1/8”, BPFSL 8 1/16”, EG Mid 5 1/4 —- Goals BPEL 7 1/2”, NBPEL 6 1/2", BPFSL 9” Motivational Resources Wanted

8/9/2014 259 lbs ---- 11/2/15 248 lbs 33.2% body fat Bhcentral's Progress Reports and Pictures

Originally Posted by marinera
Do you have any statistics? Say for population in the 18-30 years old age? And you have any reliable reference that cutting the ligs gives erect gains? Something not coming from people who performs penile surgery, preferably.

Well in terms of connective tissue variation, yes. I mean of course there is variation. You have the normal variation on the spectrum of tendon/ligament length and extensibility, and then you have the extreme ends of the spectrum where it can become a pathology. On one end (the chronoically shortened/non-extensible end) you have hypomobility syndrome, and on the other end (the lengthened/extremely extensible) you have hypermobility syndrome (often falsely referred to as being “double jointed”), and Ehlers-Danlos Sydrome on the absolute extreme edge of the spectrum. As these are diagnosed medical conditions, I’m sure there are statistics describing their prevalence.

As far as lig snipping, I have only seen before and after stretched pictures. These are from the surgeons generally, so they don’t meet your criterion. I will check the databases at the college for some statistics.

Originally Posted by NeverEnough9
Yea ive actually thrown in a set a day if fulcrum hanging over a broomstick. Seem to hit fatigue quickly but it sure isnt very comfortable lol

Rice sock duct tape fulcrum works well too.

OK, penile surgery statistics:

(Sorry, I am looking these up on a college subscription database so I cannot link to them, but if you Google the titles I’m sure you can at least see the abstracts)

A Critical Analysis of Penile Enhancement Procedures for Patients with Normal Penile Size: Surgical Techniques, Success, and Complications
Yoram Vardi, Yaron Harshai, Tamir Gil, Ilan Gruenwald. European Urology 54 (2008) 1042–1050

This study examined 176 papers published about penile enhancement surgery. Of those, 34 met their criteria for quality. After analyzing those 34 papers, the researchers concluded that a length gain of 1-2 cm was common after ligament snips if no complications occurred. Looking at the table in the article there were bigger gains reported: the largest study (Roos H, Lissoos I. Penis lengthening) examined 260 patients and reported an average 4 cm gain, another study (Panfilov DE. Augmentative phalloplasty) examined 31 patients and reported an average increase of 2.42 cm. All of these studies included a measurement again after a follow-up period of at least four months to ensure length gain was retained.

And a case study:

(I’m going to post the case study section in full as it is pretty short)

Penile lengthening procedure with V-Y advancement flap and an interposing silicone sheath: A novel methodology
Srinivas, B; Vasan, S; Mohammed, Sajid. Indian Journal of Urology28.3 (Jul 2012): 340-342

Case Report

We report the case of a 30-year-old male who presented with short penile length. On physical examination, he had normal secondary sex characters, clinically normal testes, and a flaccid outstretched penile length of 3 cm, from the bony pelvis to the tip of the glans [Figure 1]a. Erection was induced by intracorporeal injection of prostaglandin E1 and the erect length was 4.5 cm. The angle between the penis and the trunk upon erection was around 100 degrees. A written consent was signed by the patient for undergoing the procedure after explaining the consequences. The procedure was carried out as per the standard technique of V-Y Advancement Flap combined with severing of the suspensory ligament described by Osama Shaeer [4] [Figure 1]b. After the deep layer of the suspensory ligament was resected, the resulting gap between the base of the penis and the symphysis pubis was interposed with a silicone sheath [Figure 1]c. The silicone sheath was a torn-out sleeve from Shah penile prosthesis [Figure 2]. The Shah penile prosthesis is a solid silicone, semi-rigid, flexible implant with the unique features of two removable sleeves to adjust the diameter. This silicone sleeve was used to interpose between symphysis pubis and the released suspensory ligament. This maneuver filled up the gap and the deeper part of the corpora cavernosa was sutured to the cranial part of the flap with braided polyglactin (Vicryl) 3-0, thus elevating the corpora, adding to the length gain as well and closing the gap with braided polyglactin (Vicryl) 3-0. A Penrose drain was left in the remaining tight space. The caudal lip of the penopubic incision was sutured to itself in the midline with braided polyglactin (Vicryl) 3-0 along the vertical axis of the penis. This incision was then closed in a T-shaped manner with monofilament polyamide (Ethilon) 3-0. The cranial lip of the incision was sutured to the vertically closed caudal lip. The remaining V flap (skin flap) was pushed caudally and the incision was closed. The limbs of the V were closed as a Y. A urinary catheter was inserted. The drain was removed after 48 h, and the urinary catheter was removed after five days. The final length was measured after six months which showed a length of 7 cm [Figure 1]d, the same as measured intraoperatively. Main outcome measures were the maintenance of the intraoperative length gain by the sixth month after surgery, as well as the angle between the penis and the trunk upon erection which was about 100 degrees.{Figure 1}{Figure 2}

Both studies discussed how complications were common and the procedure was not recommended even if it was shown to be effective. I tend to agree.

I’m sure there are more out there showing this stuff, but I am done looking for the day. :)

Roots

I’m just searching google at home now and I found this paper that examines lig snipping. This bunch concludes a 2 cm gain in length is average after lig cutting. They perform the operations, but they are honest about complications, perform statistical analysis, and actually report patient satisfaction, both positive and negative. Most of all it is peer-reviewed.

Roots good job on finding the research. However, I don’t think it will ever be enough for some people.


12/11/2013 BPEL 5 3/4 NBPEL 5 1/16 BPFSL 6 1/16 NBPFSL 5, EG Base 5 EG Mid 4 7/8 EG Below Glans 4 3/4

11/02/15 BPEL 7 1/8”, BPFSL 8 1/16”, EG Mid 5 1/4 —- Goals BPEL 7 1/2”, NBPEL 6 1/2", BPFSL 9” Motivational Resources Wanted

8/9/2014 259 lbs ---- 11/2/15 248 lbs 33.2% body fat Bhcentral's Progress Reports and Pictures

Originally Posted by bhcentral
Roots good job on finding the research. However, I don’t think it will ever be enough for some people.

I know, probably not, but it is a promising find to me.

Remember you told me to find the variable that changed to aid in explaining how something happened? This is a good example of exactly that process to me. The one variable that changed was the suspensory ligament was cut. By removing the suspensory ligament from the equation it produced length gains of between 1-4 cm on average when no complications were present, with most reports being on the higher side of this range. This tells me that whether it is due to the mechanism I have proposed or another, taking the suspensory ligament out of the equation produces significant length gains.

Also, just for everyone’s knowledge, those measurements were all taken with the penis in the horizontal position, not the vertical. That is, they represented gains in BPEL or BPFSL, not gains in flaccid hang only.

Two other points,

One: in most of these studies the surgeons did not even touch the fundiform ligament. I would suspect in low angle stretching, when we are elongating both the suspensory ligaments (the fundiform ligament and the suspensory ligament proper) the gains specifically attributable to lig lengthening might be even a bit greater.

Two: the guy in the case study only had a 3 cm BPFSL and a 4.5 cm BPEL after administration of prostaglandin E1, the King Kong of erection drugs, poor guy.

Yeah, now try reading that carefully : a) are they speaking of erect gains? b) they are the ones who perform the surgery? c) is that reliable? There were not-commercially interested observers? You know if I go around saying that I can lengthen your penis with surgery and show as a proof something written by me, that’s not exactly considered reliable even if published on pubmed.

I take note that you have no evidence that short ligs are common, by the way.

Don’t believe to fables people, check if your source is trying to sell you something before believing.

Some more objective source:

[Cosmetic surgery of the male genitalia].
[Article in French]
Chevallier D1, Haertig A, Faix A, Droupy S.
Author information
Abstract
OBJECTIVES:
To describe the indications and results of techniques to change the appearance of the penis for aesthetic reasons. Provide recommendations concerning cosmetic surgery of the male genitalia.
MATERIAL AND METHODS:
We have selected from Medline Database, articles published between 1990 and 2011. Forty articles have been selected excluding papers reporting populations less than five cases per type of procedure.

RESULTS:
There is no consensus on the size below which it is justifiable to accept or attempt to modify the size of the penis. Length of the penis in maximal tension less than 9.5 cm or 10 cm in erection can be considered as an acceptable limit, in a patient who suffers from it. The assessment of men asking for penile enlargement must include a psychosexological or psychiatric evaluation, looking for a dysmorphophobia or another psychiatric condition. Penile extenders under medical control must be the first-line treatment option for patient seeking penile lenghtening procedure when justified. In case of failure, three techniques can be used alone or in combination: penile lengthening by section of the suspensory ligaments and suprapubic skin advancement, lipectomy of Mons pubis and scrotal webbing section. The results are modest, the rate of complications significant and satisfaction low. Girth enlargement techniques by injection of autologous fat give inconsistent aesthetic results and satisfaction rates are low. All other techniques remain experimental.

CONCLUSIONS:
Cosmetic surgery of the penis is associated with a high risk of forensic exposure and surgery should be only proposed after a multidisciplinary consensus, followed by a time of reflection given to the patient after full disclosure. Applications for the purpose of reconstruction surgery after trauma or consequences of cancer treatment are justified.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23830263

Severing of the suspensory ligament enables the penis to extend closer to its erect length while flaccid. But this is not a guaranteed result. Some men will not gain any length or will experience a shortening due to fibrosis (shrinkage and toughening of tissues). Many doctors who perform penile enlargement and lengthening suggest that their patients buy a “Penile Tissue Expander” (Ken Jons, undated). The Expander “promotes the healing of the penis in the most outward position.” The device consists of a weight system taped onto the penis to be worn six to eight hours daily. The patients are advised to start using the Expander five days post-op and continue indefinitely.
…………….

“Erect penile length (n = 46) did not significantly change. The method of cutting the suspensory ligament simply releases the hidden, internal penis to hang outside of the body when flaccid. When the penis is erect, the internal penis naturally extends to its full length. This was not clearly understood by some of the patients in this sample because they expressed their discontent with a lack of increased erect length. The mean before surgery was 5.4 inches and afterwards the mean was 5.7 inches.”

http://www.ejhs.org/volume2/klein/penis20.htm

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