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thethickone's surgery thread

Kind of hard to write about negatives when you haven’t encountered any like those horror stories. All I know is I am a real human being who has had a successful surgery.

Yes these were former patients from 3 different surgeons. I visted 6 of them who lived relatively close to me.

Grafts and plastic surgery has been done for years, Burn patients spring to mind and you don’t hear about this reabsorption on them so I have no clue what this “guy” experienced.

Originally Posted by thethickone
Grafts and plastic surgery has been done for years, Burn patients spring to mind and you don’t hear about this reabsorption on them so I have no clue what this “guy” experienced.

Although I am not a medical professional, I will offer a guess.

Think about how these tissues are different. The outer tunica consists of radial and longitudinal cables of collagen. There is very little between this layer and the skin. There are some blood vessels but that is about it.

This surgical procedure consists of placing a foreign tissue consisting mostly of collagen and fat cells in this space. Everybody agrees that the fat cells are absorbed by the body. Whats left? An irregular array of collagen. What is the body going to do with this? Nothing, because the body doesn’t know what to do with it. What cell type is going to un-naturally inhabit this space? The body does not have the factors to maintain this type of tissue in this location. Again, there is not much between the tunica and the skin and this collagen is organized quite differently from the tunica. As pieces break off with time, they will be reabsorbed.

How is this different than burn repair? You are adding the same type of tissue. Is it reabsorbed? I don’t know, I will take you word that it isn’t.

Think about this on the molecular level. You have an irregular mesh-work of collagen covering the tunica. How is this tissue going to respond when submitted to high pressure between the tunica and the skin? It is going to collapse. What is going to rebuild it to maintain it. This can’t be a simple process, not just any cell type can do this. The environment when the is removed from is quite different from that where it is placed.

And alloderm? Are we to believe the body inhabits and maintains this tissue before significant break down? Say your body grows into it, on what time scale is this complex process supposed to occur?

How are these tissues anchored? If they are not anchored, they will slide relative to the tunica and skin when you get erect or go flaccid, no? So if they move relative to the tunica and skin, please explain how exactly angiogenisis is going to take place?

Really think about this. The penis is an amazing organ in that it is somewhat like an accordion. This new tissue would have to move with the tunica or skin at all points or it would be unstable. New blood vessel entering it and exiting it could be severed. Do you really think you can just dump an irregular collagen matrix on the penis and have it assume the mechanical dynamics of a penis?

Again, I am not a doctor but you asked how it might be different.

Originally Posted by penismith
How are these tissues anchored? If they are not anchored, they will slide relative to the tunica and skin when you get erect or go flaccid, no?

The alloderm or dermal graft is anchored. Second part is moot

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So if they move relative to the tunica and skin, please explain how exactly angiogenisis is going to take place?

Since they are anchored the are in contact with other tissue and the healing process starts the formation of blood vessels. You’re really stretching here to deny grafts do not work as MILLIONS of grafts have been done on nearly EVERY single part of the human body.

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Really think about this. The penis is an amazing organ in that it is somewhat like an accordion. This new tissue would have to move with the tunica or skin at all points or it would be unstable. New blood vessel entering it and exiting it could be severed.

REALLY? Says who? The evidence and studies on dermal grafts and alloderm is overwhelming and it’s pointless to answer made up hypothetical questions that have no medical basis. The new blood vessels are elastic and they are not severed or there would be necrosis.

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Do you really think you can just dump an irregular collagen matrix on the penis and have it assume the mechanical dynamics of a penis?

Again all I can say is REALLY? I see it happening in my own body every single day. I see it expanding when i get erections and contracting when I am flaccid.

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Again, I am not a doctor but you asked how it might be different.

But you did stay in a Holiday Inn Express right? :)

If you look up dermal graft studies you will see that vasularization occurs.

Found this while reading.

“Two weeks after orthotopic implantation onto mice, 75% of grafts (n=16) displayed both a differentiated human epidermis and perfusion through HUVEC-lined microvessels. These vessels, which showed evidence of progressive maturation, accelerated the rate of graft vascularization. Successful transplantation of such vascularized human skin equivalents should enhance clinical utility, especially in recipients with impaired angiogenesis.—Schechner, J. S., Crane, S. K., Wang, F., Szeglin, A. M., Tellides, G., Lorber, M. I., Bothwell, A. L. M., Pober, J. S. Engraftment of a vascularized human skin equivalent.

http://www.mmhc.com/owm/displayArti…eID=article4084

In a HEALTHY person there is no reason angiogenesis will not take place. Key word healthy. I no smokers have a bad time with this surgery and that is do to the affect nicotine has on blood vessels


Last edited by thethickone : 09-01-2005 at . Reason: Typos

Originally Posted by thethickone
Well first because Alloderm is only 6 inches long so if you’re over 6 inches and they place 1.5 inches inside that only leaves 4.5 inches that must stretch to reach your pre-op size. I was about 6.5 NBPEL and I had 2 inches of retraction that was corrected via weights and of course natural healing and the force of my erections stretching the alloderm.

I have talked to about 20 guys who had Dermal Grafts some over 6, 7 years ago. No one spoke of reabsorption.

Fat injections are infamous for reabsorption.

Couldn’t they have just added an extra two inches of alloderm, rather than just attach the 6” wrap knowing your penis would automatically retract 2 inches? Is this cost cutting or what?

4.5” + 2” = 6.5”

The stuff is expensive. EXTREMELY expensive and they work with one sheet at a time.

Some of the guys posting don’t quite grasp the concept of how the grafts work. Check out this website for more about Alloderm.

www.lifecell.com

Originally Posted by thethickone
Well first because Alloderm is only 6 inches long so if you’re over 6 inches and they place 1.5 inches inside that only leaves 4.5 inches that must stretch to reach your pre-op size. I was about 6.5 NBPEL and I had 2 inches of retraction that was corrected via weights and of course natural healing and the force of my erections stretching the alloderm.

Thanks for explaining that, I wonder if in the future surgeons will start to stitch the alloderm sheets together for those with more than 6 inches bpel. I know the sheets are expensive but it would be worth paying it.

Or Lifecell may start supplying bigger sized sheets of Aloderm.

Originally Posted by solarwind
Thanks for explaining that, I wonder if in the future surgeons will start to stitch the alloderm sheets together for those with more than 6 inches bpel. I know the sheets are expensive but it would be worth paying it.

Or Lifecell may start supplying bigger sized sheets of Aloderm.


Naturally, the producers of Alloderm have drastically increased the price while providing smaller and smaller sheets. There is a limit to the stitching together than can be done because you always want a nice smooth contour when they insert grafts into your penis. Stitching a number of tiny little peices together could affect the contour as well as the stability of the sheets, before your body has a chance to grow into them.

Originally Posted by 8-Ball
Naturally, the producers of Alloderm have drastically increased the price while providing smaller and smaller sheets. There is a limit to the stitching together than can be done because you always want a nice smooth contour when they insert grafts into your penis. Stitching a number of tiny little peices together could affect the contour as well as the stability of the sheets, before your body has a chance to grow into them.

Did you end up losing 2 inch or so from your penis because of the girth surgery also? I know it’s too early to tell.. But any signs?

Originally Posted by ViewSonic

Did you end up losing 2 inch or so from your penis because of the girth surgery also? I know it’s too early to tell.. But any signs?

Hasn’t happened yet. I should have less retraction than thethickone because I used dermal grafts. Also, remember the retraction is only temporary if you stretch or hang weights post operatively.

A few Questions

Thanks Thickone for sharing your experiences.

I was wondering if you had the size of your glands increased? It looks very unnatural to me when the base is much larger than the head.

I am considering this procedure but would be flying in from out of town. How long after the surgery would I have to stay in the area?

Thanks!

Originally Posted by bob34
Thanks Thickone for sharing your experiences.

I was wondering if you had the size of your glands increased? It looks very unnatural to me when the base is much larger than the head.

I am considering this procedure but would be flying in from out of town. How long after the surgery would I have to stay in the area?

Thanks!


I arrived on a Wednesday, had the surgery the next day, and left on Sunday.

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