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Possible reason for PE induced growth

Originally Posted by newguy01
Same with PE - the key is stretching the tunica which allows for more “soft tissue” expansion.

Once that stretch becomes “cemented”, then PE guys dont go back to their original size either.


You are on target as well. Expansion of the tunica by tension-induced (either pressure or stretch) connective tissue remodeling is the key.

However, like in body building, disuse atrophy can occur. I don’t know if that means not stopping at least some type of minimal PE. Maybe erections, masturbation and intercourse are enough range-of-motion to keep cemented gains over the long term. Even cement can crumble.

Originally Posted by newguy01
Someone posted about rest periods allowing the penis to become “weaker.”.

One takes rest periods to allow the body to catch up from an over-training standpoint, and I truly think that most PE’ers SEVERELY over-train.


I think weaker is a bad word. The disuse decreases collagen fiber diameter in connective tissue so that tensile strength is reduced. This makes it easier to stretch again and hopefully allow for tension-induced growth.

I think we’re all guilty of over doing it at some time or another.

You are very right regarding rest. If PI’s point to overtraining, rest is key to allow tissue repair/remodeling, particularly if the PE induces injury.

The second kind of rest, deconditioning rest, also seems important in PE to overcome plateaus. This remodeling involves decreased collagen fiber size, and if the break is not too long (or gains are “locked”), hopefully not decreased fiber length; longitudinal or circumferential.

By the way could someone explain to me the concept of “locking” or “cementing” gains. How do cold packs and/or a 3 - 4 week PE taper cement gains? How does this work on a connective tissue basis? I personally have no idea.

Totally agree.

I think the “cementing” idea comes from taking time off which simply allows for a full recovery and maximal expansion and EQ.

It is just the concept of catching up, at least to me.


06/21/07 NBP = 7.75(tape) FSL = 7.875 EG = 5.00 Volume= 15.42

09/13/07 NBP = 8.375 FSL = 8.75 EG = 5.38 Volume = 19.29 (+25%)

12/26/07 NBP = 8.625 FSL = 8.75 EG = 5.50 Volume = 20.82 (+35%)

Thanks guys very informative information which helps me cement my theory. A theory I have been floating around in my head for over a month.

The penis growths due to ligament lengthening
Tunica expansion
And jelqing somehow someway must stimulate or awaken dorment androgen receptor cells all through the penis. Directly affecting cavernosa growth through the stimulation of jelqing. The reverse direction of masturbation stimulates these androgen receptor sites. This makes growth possible even in older men. I was 41 when I started PE.

What is the trigger chemical that activates this new growth. Something that already exist with in us goes to work to grow new dick length.

I suspect the body uses these nutrients to help the dick grow.
Glucosamine for lig growth
Oxygen,arginine perhaps even glutamine a factor in creating glucosamine. Don’t laugh yet or get your hopes up to high this is not science fact merely another theory.


Speak softly carry a big dick, I'm mean stick!

Originally Posted by kingpole
And jelqing somehow someway must stimulate or awaken dorment androgen receptor cells all through the penis. Directly affecting cavernosa growth through the stimulation of jelqing. The reverse direction of masturbation stimulates these androgen receptor sites. This makes growth possible even in older men. I was 41 when I started PE.

kingpole - I’m not so sure you can say you’re waking up dormant androgen receptors. Any stimulation leading to erection and then ejaculation increases testosterone. The uptake of testosterone by cells depends upon its blood flow at the time. What I believe you’re doing is increasing cavernosa blood capacity by smooth muscle dilation of the walls surrounding the blood in the cavernosa bodies so that your continued high volume, high pressure strokes toward the head causes even greater expanding and lengthening pressure tension. 70 - 90% erection will have cavernosa pressures approaching the bodies blood pressure, about 120 mmHg. An effective base to head stroke moving an even larger mass of blood will generate a pressures well above the 200 - 300 mmHg seen at peak erection. The pressure will rise as your grip gets closer to your glans. This will definitely generated the “outward and forward expansion of the cavernosa” that you propose.

Originally Posted by kingpole
What is the trigger chemical that activates this new growth. Something that already exist with in us goes to work to grow new dick length.


I agree. It would be arrogant of us to believe that special mechanisms hang around just for penis enhancement.

Here’s an example: For years “experts” said that there are pain receptors in the heart that cause the pain of a heart attack. It would be hard to believe that special pain receptors hung around 50 - 70 years just waiting to fire off to cause chest pain when (or if) you have a heart attack. Not very efficient. Turns out normal nerves that detect normal feelings fire at a very high rate when you’re having a heart attack and give you the pain.

We tap into the normal mechanisms of our the body and use them to our advantage.

Originally Posted by pudendum
………………
The tunica albuginea that they are talking about in this report is in the testis not the penis. This is a totally different structure covering the testicle and is related in name alone (at least for our discussion).

Yes, I knew; I was hoping you had more specific references about TA modifications in older (sex-active) subjects, more related to what we are speaking of.

I haven’t understood (my fault, of corse) if you did read articles about (without finding nothing interesting), or youd did not, because you think studies regarding that subject could not enlight what we are debating.

Originally Posted by pudendum
Kingpole - I’m not so sure you can say you’re waking up dormant androgen receptors. Any stimulation leading to erection and then ejaculation increases testosterone. The uptake of testosterone by cells depends upon it’s blood flow at the time. What I believe you’re doing is increasing cavernosa blood capacity by smooth muscle dilation of the walls surrounding the blood in the cavernosa bodies so that your continued high volume, high pressure strokes toward the head causes even greater expanding and lengthening pressure tension. 70 - 90% erection will have cavernosa pressures approaching the bodies blood pressure, about 120 mmHg. An effective base to head stroke moving an even larger mass of blood will generate a pressures well above the 200 - 300 mmHg seen at peak erection. The pressure will rise as your grip gets closer to your glans. This will definitely generated the “outward and forward expansion of the cavernosa” that you propose.

I agree. It would be arrogant of us to believe that special mechanisms hang around just for penis enhancement.

Here’s an example: For years “experts” said that there are pain receptors in the heart that cause the pain of a heart attack. It would be hard to believe that special pain receptors hung around 50 - 70 years just waiting to fire off to cause chest pain when (or if) you have a heart attack. Not very efficient. Turns out normal nerves that detect normal feelings fire at a very high rate when you’re having a heart attack and give you the pain.

We tap into the normal mechanisms of our the body and use them to our advantage.

I learned in Human Biology that we have photo sensory nerves in our knees, go figure, the body mystery.


Speak softly carry a big dick, I'm mean stick!

The TA of the testis has not only a structural function, but a physiologic one as well. There is a barrier between the testes and the rest of the body, this is achieved by the TA of the testis.

It looks very similar in nature to the TA of the penis in that it has the same macroscopic look. Looks like a “white coat”, thus the name. It invests a globe-like structure vs the expanding tube of the penis. Attempts to expand it, as in testicular torsion, lead to PAIN. It does not distend like its penis counterpart.

I have surveyed the literature regarding the tunica. Like you, I’ve seen papers on the changes in the elastic component of tunica in those with impotence and in old guys. I’ve got classic histology studies. I tell you there’s just not a lot else out there written about the TA of the penis that is helpful to us.

Originally Posted by marinera
Yes, I knew; I was hoping you had more specific references about TA modifications in older (sex-active) subjects, more related to what we are speaking of.

I haven’t understood (my fault, of corse) if you did read articles about (without finding nothing interesting), or youd did not, because you think studies regarding that subject could not enlight what we are debating.

The tunica in the testicles is harder than the tunica in the penis. The tunica in the penis has to be somewhat more flexable the in the testicles I would suspect. Although testicles have the amazing capacity to grow about 50% when sexually aroused.


Speak softly carry a big dick, I'm mean stick!

Originally Posted by pudendum

You are on target as well. Expansion of the tunica by tension-induced (either pressure or stretch) connective tissue remodeling is the key.

Hi Pudendum,

I have enjoyed your thread and appreciate all of your effort that you have shared with us.

The program that I am on is a chemical one, but obviously the goal of tissue remodeling is not different. In this method, there is a good deal of tension (stretching) but it is followed up by the use of PGE-1 (caverject, tri-mix or quad mix) to begin the help the tissue remodeling. Adding IGF-1LR3 to the mix helps to create new cells through cell division. After a year and a half on the protocol, girth has shown significant improvement. Length has progressed fairly well, but not to the extent that girth has. I believe this is simply because the IGF is injected into the cavernosa, and not in to the tunica. From time to time, the force on the tunica when erect has been so significant as to be mildly painful when erect.

Quite a number of people have started the chemical program, but it seems that not all that many stick with it. Cost is one big consideration as everything that is injected is expensive. However, as your thread has a strong scientific basis, perhaps the practical aspects of this part of the program can be ignored. The most successful, and to me, interesting PE researcher was a guy named MAGNUMFORCE who posted on another board. He was a researcher in some University lab and worked with rabbits as his test animals. He did have access to things that are not normally available, including human recombinant Relaxin, which is no longer manufactured. His results were the most significant that I have ever heard of, but he stopped posting a couple of years ago. Going from memory, his routine was something like this:

1. Injection with PGE-1 daily with erections lasting at least 3 hours. Sometimes he would inject more than once to maintain a erection of 50 to 75% for up to 6 hours.

2. Daily DHT

3. Daily Human recombinant Relaxin

4. IGF-1

5. Stretching for at least 30 minutes a day.

He had a number of interesting observations. One that I thought interesting was the use of GH. At first he thought that GH gave no benefit when injected into the penis. Later he came back and said that while IGF-1 was much more effective, that adding GH was helpful.

As I recall, he got to be almost 10” in length, and had a girth of 7.5” He acknowledged that this was not a very effective size for having sex, as oral would not be possible at that size and vaginal and anal would be a real challenge. He achieved this size in less than 6 months, but the real growth took place in the last 3 months before he stopped posting.

It was not my intention to hijack your thread, only to suggest that there may be another option to achieve tissue remodeling.

Thanks again for your posts.

Stagestop

Stagestop - Very interesting stuff. “Better living through chemistry.”

I’m very good with needles; on other people. However, I’m a wimp when it comes to sticking myself (even just my finger for a blood sugar check or blood smear). More power to you if you can stick yourself. And even more power to you if you can stick your own penis!

The potential results are impressive. Let us know how you’re progressing.

Originally Posted by pudendum
Stagestop - Very interesting stuff. “Better living through chemistry.”

I’m very good with needles; on other people. However, I’m a wimp when it comes to sticking myself (even just my finger for a blood sugar check or blood smear). More power to you if you can stick yourself. And even more power to you if you can stick your own penis!

The potential results are impressive. Let us know how you’re progressing.

I was good giving shots to others but when I had to start injecting insulin I was kind of squeemish at first, especially those belly injections.


Speak softly carry a big dick, I'm mean stick!

Quote
stagestop

Hi Stage,

Long time no see ..

Good to see you again.

3t


Later - ttt

Originally Posted by pudendum
Stagestop - Very interesting stuff. “Better living through chemistry.”

I’m very good with needles; on other people. However, I’m a wimp when it comes to sticking myself (even just my finger for a blood sugar check or blood smear). More power to you if you can stick yourself. And even more power to you if you can stick your own penis!

The potential results are impressive. Let us know how you’re progressing.

I was a bit nervous with the injecting when I started as well. I am sure that this is one reason that not all that many guys begin this type of program. I started an anti aging program that included GH injections every day a long time ago. So perhaps it was easier for me to just move to the penis.

Hello 3-T. I was looking for you at the A4M convention in Las Vegas last month. They had a number of interesting speakers on cancer there this time, as well as the more standard anti aging topics. Maybe in the future.

Stage

Originally Posted by stagestop
Hello 3-T. I was looking for you at the A4M convention in Las Vegas last month. They had a number of interesting speakers on cancer there this time, as well as the more standard anti aging topics. Maybe in the future.

Stage

I am sorry stage, I could not make it this time.


Later - ttt

Originally Posted by stagestop
He did have access to things that are not normally available, including human recombinant Relaxin, which is no longer manufactured.

Stagestop, do you have any more information concerning when Relaxin stopped being manufactured and why?

I checked online and it seems that as recent as 2005 Relaxin was still being used in various medical studies.

Did Magnumforce ever post pictures of his gains? Do you know what his starting size was? Did he ever talk about what his erection strength levels were after having that drastic of an increase after only 6 months?

What have your girth gains been since starting chemical PE?

Staying on topic, I was wondering if body types(ecto/meso/endo) and blood types have anything to do with influencing gains. The penis isn’t a muscle, but tissue composition/response could be related to body/blood types…?

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