Possible reason for PE induced growth

I think there is a very important point here that is being overlooked, is that we are enlarging more than one type of tissue (connective tissue, and smooth muscle.) remek and I have a theory, or hypothesis if you will, that given the two major tissue types involved here are substantially different from each other in composition and structure, the stimulus and process of enlargement is very different. Smooth muscle fibers retain mitotic capacity and can therefore increase their numbers (hyperplasia) and they are also capable of increasing in size (hypertrophy.) While, connective tissue fibers have the ability to hypertrophy, they do not (at least to my knowledge) have the ability to regenerate their numbers. Connective tissue must be enlarged by plastic deformation. The approach to achieving a growth stimulus for both requires a two-fold approach.

That leads to an interesting question. Is the body’s own blood pressure enough to cause plastic deformation in those tissues? I’m thinking about megalophallus as a result of high-flow priapism:

Megalophallus as a sequela of priapism in sickle cell anemia: use of blood oxygen level-dependent magnetic resonance imaging

Megalophallus in sickle cell disease

An unusual case of priapism

I’m not seeing that hypertension is necessarily associated with sickle cell disease, so higher than normal blood pressure would not seem to be the mechanism.

I found part of the answer to my own question. The blood pressure in the penis during erection is higher than the systemic systolic blood pressure. From http://edrv.end ojournals.org/c … /full/22/3/342:

This is a very good article overall, by the way.

Hey guy,
I did some research too, and in many french articles, i’ve seen that you can stretch the collagen fiber without break them.
How to? ====> heat up at 113 degree farenheit and a simple ligth stretch…
Did you now that? Have you a idea to adapt this information to a routine girth?

Actualy I concentrate my research on mechanism of cicatrization, I think for now that is the key!

This thread does need to be dug up properly, there is some good theories here.

I personally would think the best approach is to focus on the smooth muscle. Connective tissue will expand to fit the underlying muscle, in other areas of the body such as the biceps it is a common idea that the fascia (connective tissue) expands when the muscle grows. This is one reason many believe “the pump” is important, because the pump will expand the fascia and over time this expansion will cause the connective tissue to expand and allow for more expansion of the underlying muscle.

So it would make sense to me that a wise approach would be to focus on expanding the smooth muscle and tunica which would inherently expand the connective tissues of the penis and over time this expansion would solidify.

From my research, if the underlying muscle of any area of the body is not stimulated yet the connective tissue is, the connective tissue is unlikely to remain expanded since there is nothing underlying to support it. Of course continued “work” of the connective tissue may keep it there but it would seem to be it would be of little real benefit if the underlying muscle is also not worked.

I guess my basic idea here is that focus should be on the muscle and pump, and the connective tissues will naturally expand with it rather then focusing on the connective tissue.

This is why emerging research is showing stretching before any kind of workout may be of little benefit and sometimes may even hinder, rather it now seems research supports stretching only after muscle work again implying that the muscle expansion allows for the connective tissue expansion safely.

^^^ Good information Necro. It seems you are suggesting that we perform some kegels/jelqing before we begin our stretching session?

‘emerging research’?

Whose ‘emerging research’?

Source, please.

Maybe you are refferring to these studies, Necro?

"

Reduced strength after passive stretch of the human plantarflexors

J. R. Fowles, D. G. Sale, and J. D. MacDougall Department of Kinesiology, McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada L8S 4K1

The purpose of this study was to assess strength performance after an acute bout of maximally tolerable passive stretch (PSmax) in human subjects. …………….These data indicate that prolonged stretching of a single muscle decreases voluntary strength for up to 1 h after the stretch as a result of impaired activation and contractile force in the early phase of deficit and by impaired contractile force throughout the entire period of deficit. "

Link1

"Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise:

August 2004 - Volume 36 - Issue 8 - pp 1397-1402

APPLIED SCIENCES: Biodynamics

Effect of Acute Static Stretching on Force, Balance, Reaction Time, and Movement Time

BEHM, DAVID G.; BAMBURY, ANDREW; CAHILL, FARRELL; POWER, KEVIN

"

Purpose: The purpose of the study was to investigate the effect of an acute bout of lower limb static stretching on balance, proprioception, reaction, and movement time.

………….

Results: There were no significant differences in the decrease in MVC between the stretch and control conditions or in the ability to match submaximal forces. However, there was a significant (P < 0.009) decrease in balance scores with the stretch (↓ 9.2%) compared with the control (↑ 17.3%) condition. Similarly, decreases in reaction (5.8%) and movement (5.7%) time with the control condition differed significantly (P < 0.01) from the stretch-induced increases of 4.0% and 1.9%, respectively.

Conclusion: In conclusion, it appears that an acute bout of stretching impaired the warm-up effect achieved under control conditions with balance and reaction/movement time."

Link2

As sort of counter-balance, there are studies that suggest that static stretching alone could be very useful for muscle growth - here you are one:

"Experimental Physiology (2000), 85:2:193-202 Cambridge University Press
Copyright © The Physiological Society 2000


Growth induced by incremental static stretch in adult rabbit latissimus dorsi muscle

Valerie M. Cox a1, Pamela E. Williams a1, Helena Wright a1, Robert S. James a1, Kay L. Gillott a1, Iain S. Young a1 and David F. Goldspink a1

a1School of Natural and Environmental Sciences, University of Coventry, Coventry CV1 5FB, Department of Biological Sciences, University of Hull, Hull HU10 7HA and Institute for Cardiovascular Research, Research School of Medicine and Department of Pure and Applied Biology, University of Leeds, Leeds LS2 9JT and Research Institute of Sport and Exercise Science, Liverpool John Moores University, Liverpool L3 2ET, UK


Abstract

Incrementally applied static stretch over 3 weeks resulted in a 72 % increase in the weight of the in situ latissimus dorsi muscle in rabbits. True growth rather than tissue oedema was confirmed by increases in the protein content (130 %), the cross-sectional area of the type I fibres (30 %) and the muscle length (i.e. number of sarcomeres in series increased 25 %).

Despite an increase in the proportion of fibres staining positive for the enzyme succinate dehydrogenase (SDH), the myosin ATPase stain showed no appreciable fibre type transformation. While total power output in the stretched muscle was unchanged, its maximum mass specific power output, as determined by oscillatory work loops, was decreased by 50 %.

The cross-sectional area that was occupied by connective tissue increased from 15 to 19 % in the stretched muscles, with a concomitant increase in passive energy dissipation. Some incrementally stretched muscles were then allowed an additional 3 weeks of maintained stretch to determine whether the adaptive changes would be preserved or reversed.

Previous gains in muscle weight, length and area of type I fibres all remained. In contrast, the connective tissue content and the passive properties returned to control values during this period."

Link

Ok, it was done on rabbits, but still is interesting, right?

It is. I look forward to having time to look into that more. Good catch marinera. :)

Good (long) read.

I don’t know a lot about physical therapy, but I have a question for someone who does. I had physical therapy on my finger which was broken at the joint. After the my finger was out of the cast, I had physical therapy to try to get back full range of motion. I was at a physical therapy place that specialized with joint injuries. It seemed most people there were trying to regain full range of motion. I have to say that the pain I experienced in physical therapy was VERY intense. There were big tough-looking “trucker” type guys who were literally crying as the therapists bent their elbows strait. So my question is, if the principles of penis enlargement work anything like physical therapy, could pain be necessary. I know everyone always says no, pain is ALWAYS bad and I certainly don’t want to get an injury, but I’m interested in the opinion of a physical therapist, because it seemed like in physical therapy pain was a requirement or at least always necessary.

I think that is a comparison of apples and oranges, Penonips.

My guess is that the pain of physical therapy is related to applying force to overcome a physical deviation from the previous norm. Joints and connective tissue and tendons and ligaments are scarred or have acquired a ‘set’ or range of motion that is diminished from what it used to be, and force is being applied to overcome that. The resulting stretches are painful.

PE in the normal penis is starting with something that is physiologically unremarkable in the sense of scarring or contraction or ‘range of motion’. There should not be pain involved in taking that normal penis to its full range of motion. There can be discomfort induced if we are trying to take it a little beyond that range in the interest of increasing that range.

But that is different than overcoming scarring or contraction in the case of an injury. In the case of a normal penis, outright pain is more likely to be an indicator of actual damage being done.

You could argue that going beyond the normal limits of the penis is inflicting damage, albeit slight, on that normal penis, but there is a difference between that and outright injury. Or, at least, that would be my best guess.

Lampwick has already given a good answer, so my professional opinion can be brief. The pain someone experiences during physical therapy is because they have an injury. If they had not had an injury, the movements they were being taken through would not hurt. Pain certainly is not a ‘requirement’ or ‘always necessary’ in physical therapy. When I have to break down adhesions in connective tissue etc., pain is sometimes an unfortunate reality, but I try to do as much work in the ‘discomfort’ rather than pain range unless it is not possible to do what I need to without pain, then I keep the period of pain as short as possible.

In the case of the penis, pain is ALWAYS bad, as it means an injury has occurred.