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I have been diagnosed with Andropause by 789

789,

That makes sense with respect to the Andropause. What do you think about the dietary changes I
had talked about.

Of course I had no intention of undermining your workout experience, but it sounds like you really
are in a place where your hormone system is not supporting your efforts. I know for me that just
diet change and exercising (BFL) even when I don’t feel like it has made a huge difference in total
T (more than doubled), but I’m still not where I think I should be as a 34 year old.

Having the same diagnosis and similar issues to what you have described, I know what it’s like, very
frustrating. Practically a prisoner in one’s own tired, unresponsive body.

Let us know how it goes with squats and other changes you’ll be making.

Wish you the best.
BFLR


(12/5/2008) BPEL: 7.75" EG: 5.75" BSFL: 8.1" FL: 5" FG 4.25"||New Goal: NBPEL: 8" EG: 6"

Technique: 95% Wet Jelqing, 5% Low Vacuum Pumping

Photos Journal

BFLR,

I like your analysis on diet.

“Diet rule is basically: eat food only the way God made it. Or put another way, eat only what you get
on the periphery of a grocery store: produce, dairy and meat. Nothing that was manufactured
(chips, cereal, booze, cookies, bread). Old-fashioned oatmeal (NOT quickoats) is an acceptable
grain, and a good one. Beer bad (unfortunately), wine good.”

Okay my personal weaknesses are beer, rum and diet coke and wine. I drink wine at home (inside), I drink rum and coke at home (outside) but beer is the most convenient drink overall. I live in Florida so drinking red wine in the hot sun just doesnt work for me, so I switch to rum and diet coke or beer. I really like oatmeal and will have to get into the habit of cooking the old fashioned kind. I will try to keep you diet mantra in mind when I am shopping for food.

Thanks again,
789


You all are still missing the point... The story was great and all but should have ass (and) some anal in it.- RWG

I just bumped into someone I see once in a while, he is almost 50, and he put on a sh*tload of weight, since I saw him like 6 months ago. He used to be a skinny guy, only workout might be cutting his lawn or travelling down to the casino. He also mentioned feeling tired and lethargic.

Everyone was telling him, “you’re getting older, your eating too much, you must be getting lazy”, etc etc. Anyway, his blood test showed a Thyroid problem, and he started on some kind of meds.


cead mile failte :lep:

Thanks for all the links, I’m reading through them too. Sounds like an endo or andrologist is the way to go. I’ll have to make up a list of things to ask and find someone in Texas.

Andrew69,

I have a copy of the NHE book. It’s interesting. He talks about cycling your diet, using low carb foods for 3 or 4 days, then carb loading. He describes the glucose level as “little cups” that need to be filled up occasionally, then you exercise as the level drops. It got a little complicated! I would be interested to hear your take on it, I couldn’t quite interpret it all. Maybe I should find it and pull it out again.


Start a dialogue! The Gay Role Poll is waiting for your vote! :)

All truth goes through three stages: First it is ridiculed. Then it is violently opposed. Finally it is accepted as self evident. -Schopenhauer

I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world. -Richard Dawkins

Originally Posted by SixerMan
I just bumped into someone I see once in a while, he is almost 50, and he put on a sh*tload of weight, since I saw him like 6 months ago. He used to be a skinny guy, only workout might be cutting his lawn or travelling down to the casino. He also mentioned feeling tired and lethargic.

Everyone was telling him, “you’re getting older, your eating too much, you must be getting lazy”, etc etc. Anyway, his blood test showed a Thyroid problem, and he started on some kind of meds.

I thought for sure I had a thyroid problem also but the blood work didnt show it and the symptoms are very similar to that of low testosterone and other low adrenals. I have read that when medicating the thyroid that doctors have to be careful of not burning it out. Thyroid balancing takes a lot of bloodwork, followup, personal knowledge and control over one’s body.

I know that many people tried to tell me that I was putting on weight because of my eating habits, age, and workout habits (yeah like anyone else gets up at frickin 4:30 a.m. to workout at 5:00 everyday and although I changed them by reducing calories even more, I didn’t feel in my heart of hearts that I was on the right path. I knew there was something wrong with my body. I am on my second day of the Androderm patch and am hopeful that this is the trigger I need for my body to start doing what it is supposed to do on its own.

At least your friend knew enough to go to the doctor for some help. I was reading that thyroid imbalance is one of the most underdiagnosed problems out there for people.


You all are still missing the point... The story was great and all but should have ass (and) some anal in it.- RWG

Originally Posted by 789
I know that many people tried to tell me that I was putting on weight because of my eating habits, age, and workout habits…

Yeah, that’s the old “willpower” argument. I’ve heard that before! :)

“Just work harder!” “Pull yourself up by the bootstraps and forget about it!” “Quit complaining…don’t you know there’s children starving in Africa? “It’ll go away.” Yeah, right. “Bury your head in the sand and hope it goes away” is more like it.

Problem is, that can work for many things. And it DOESN’T work for many things, too. My parents have that mentality. It doesn’t always solve things, but they still think it does.

I think with me it might be partly genetic. There isn’t one person I can think of in our whole family, that wasn’t always a little “chubby”… not morbidly obese, but just “plump.” So I think that’s a good possibility in my case. No matter how hard I worked in construction, I never could get really trim. Now, working your ass off for 8 or 9 hours a day… strenouos oftentimes, not pussyfooting around, if that ain’t enough exercise, I don’t know what is.

I don’t know if it means anything or not, but on my mom’s side of the family, they aren’t really good at “coping skills”… making just simple decisions can sometimes take on a whole life of it’s own… the “self doubt” and “mental acrobatics” that she goes through just drives me crazy. She has always been that way: today, 20 years ago, 40 years ago… it doesn’t matter.

Anyway, just little things like that, that I have noticed in my life, have made me wonder if there’s a genetic component.

I had my thyroid checked too, about two years ago. Cholesterol too. Thyroid was in nornal range, maybe a little low but t3 and t4 were ok, so the doctor just shined it on. Cholesterol was a little high but not alarming. I have since taken care of that, I’m pretty sure, with fish oil, flax oil and diet. Dairy foods are almost non existant now, and I feel better. Mucous problems like stuffy nose and sinus headaches are gone now; when pollen levels get really high it can bother me, but that’s environmental, not diet.


Start a dialogue! The Gay Role Poll is waiting for your vote! :)

All truth goes through three stages: First it is ridiculed. Then it is violently opposed. Finally it is accepted as self evident. -Schopenhauer

I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world. -Richard Dawkins


Last edited by electron : 05-11-2005 at .

I had the beer weakness too (and soda weakness: Dr. Pepper) for years. Now I drink Sam Adams Light
exclusively (only “light” beer that tastes good to me), and for red wine on warm days, I throw in an
ice cube. No one has to know ;-)

Plus, wine has “medicinal purposes”….

Also have the occasional shot of whiskey.

Rum and diet coke?????

Electron: Good points about fish oils and cutting back on dairy. Cow proteins are not always easily
broken down in human bodies. I’m constantly amazed at what I learned in human physiology class that
contradicts societal norms when it comes to food.
BFLR


(12/5/2008) BPEL: 7.75" EG: 5.75" BSFL: 8.1" FL: 5" FG 4.25"||New Goal: NBPEL: 8" EG: 6"

Technique: 95% Wet Jelqing, 5% Low Vacuum Pumping

Photos Journal

Originally Posted by electron
Andrew69,

I have a copy of the NHE book. It’s interesting. He talks about cycling your diet, using low carb foods for 3 or 4 days, then carb loading. He describes the glucose level as “little cups” that need to be filled up occasionally, then you exercise as the level drops. It got a little complicated! I would be interested to hear your take on it, I couldn’t quite interpret it all. Maybe I should find it and pull it out again.


Hopefully it will be in the mail today :D

You may also want to check out the thread going over at bb.com regards the book/diet/exercise.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=469560

Andrew69,

I see you got your book!

That’s cool, being able to ask someone questions and get sensible answers. I got tired of the low carb stuff so it was hard to stick to. It sounds like they have ways of dealing with it. I didn’t exercise either. Reading through that, things are beginning to make more sense. You NEED exercise to stimulate the hormones. I know I felt better when I was working hard, but was always eating wrong probably, so all you ever see is a sort of “vague connection” but never really figure it out completely. I always felt better on a high protein diet (although was probably mixing too many carbs with it), I could eat breakfast three meals a day! Eggs, omelettes, steaks or hamburger patties, tuna (lots of it), whatever. I felt good in those days.

Then all the “garbage” got in my ear. People begin to notice how you eat and bug you to death. “Oh my god! You ate some fat! You better change your diet or you will die!” You get the picture. I have felt progressively “crappier” ever since.

Maybe I should try this first. I’ll go back and eat like I did ten years ago. I’ll start eating my 3, 4, or 5 egg omlettes every morning, with cheese and mushrooms or onions or peppers on them. Eat tuna fish, brewers yeast (I’m that one weird guy in a hundred that actually LIKES the taste of brewers yeast, gulp it down, yum!), liverwurst and all that. I could go through half a cube of butter every day and not gain weight. Then maybe I just need to fine tune the carbs and fats. The exercise will come along in a month after I get moved into the city. If squats and stuff will kick the hormones, I will get into a gym and learn what that’s all about. That’s a totally new world to me. I always did “outdoorsy” stuff, like hiking. Sitting in a room under fluorescent lights just seemed “artificial” to me. I guess I should learn. The gym I am looking at doesn’t have any trainers, it’s an “on your own” type of thing. Somehow, I will need to learn the proper way to do the exercises, the proper “form” or whatever you might call it, to be sure I am doing them right. Is there a website about that?


Start a dialogue! The Gay Role Poll is waiting for your vote! :)

All truth goes through three stages: First it is ridiculed. Then it is violently opposed. Finally it is accepted as self evident. -Schopenhauer

I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world. -Richard Dawkins


Last edited by electron : 05-13-2005 at .

Originally Posted by 789
Thank you for the kinds wishes. I was reading that if you take a testosterone supplement that sometimes your body will reduce production of testosterone but that it usually starts back up after you quit.

Well, your bodies natural production of testosterone is already down, that’s why you’re experiencing andropause. Any amount of exogenous testosterone is going to affect testicular testosterone production, whether it comes from a gel, patch, or injections.

The “standard” for male hormone replacement therapy these days is usually an injection of 100mg of testosterone cypionate, and two 250 IU - 500 IU injections of human chorionic gonadotropin per week. You can learn to inject yourself, it’s not as scary as most folks fear. If you have health insurance, the co-pay for these medications is not expensive.

If your doctor or endocrinologist is not up to date with current practices in the hormone replacement therapy field, have them contact the doctor at www.allthingsmale.com, he’s an acknowledged expert in the field and has been willing to consult with other doctors.


"We have met the enemy, and he is us."

Electron,
There is a great site with videos shwoing correct form on many exercises. I’ll try and dig up the site for you in the morning…it’s too damn late here now :D

Yep, I got my book and have started skimming through it. Start the diet on Monday. I’ve started reading a little on the exercises recommeded in the book, but not much to be honest. I think Ill keep going with the HST as that has helped me make great progress to date.

789,
Even after skimming through the book , it may well be something you should look into. Maybe give me a few months and see if it works for me :D Not sure it it will be a fair evaluation though as Im heading off on a 13 week round the world trip in two weeks! Yippee!!

789,

Have you tried DHEA supplementation? I had similar symptoms with fatigue, loss of strength when working out, loss of muscle definition, etc.. And started supplementing DHEA (a natural hormone the body produces that greatly reduces in manufacturing after the age of 40 or so), and it has seemed to make a difference in my case. As someone with a pre-med degree, I have just enough education to be cynical towards the medical industry, especially docs that tend to reach for their prescription pad immediately, in lieu of trying to heal with natural methods and natural supplements first. Whether it is the placebo effect or not, it would be hard to be definitive, but, I started recently on rigorous schedule of natural supplemetation and exercise and it seems to have really turned things around, endurance wise, and also on several other health fronts.

(A side note that convinced me that a natural supplementation regiment might be worth experimenting with was the chronic back pain that I’ve endured as a result of two arthritic lower ruptured discs (L4-L5), injured years ago. As a wrestling coach, someone who works out regularly, and is physically active, I found myself injured (sometimes bedridden) quite often with intense muscle spasms, regularly sucking down ibuprofrens just to exist. I later heard from a guy in the gym that had the same previous problem(s) with his back to get off the NSAIDS, and try a natural approach of taking four supplements together (bromelain, turmeric, quercetin, & boron) 3x’s daily on an empty stomach. Within two days of trying this, I had ZERO pain or stiffness in my back, could wrestle again on the mat, and squat, etc.. In the gym. This has convinced me to always try a natural approach first before I’d submit to a physician who loves to hold a script pad in one hand, while padding the pharmaceutical industry’s fanny with the other.

I hope you are doing well with your patch, and show marked improvement,

Tiger-07

789

We need an update my friend do you feel anything yet? And if so what do you feel?

Tiger

How much dhea are you taking?


I haven't failed, I've found 10,000 ways that don't work. Thomas Edison (1847-1931)

Dino,

I take 25mg sublingual DHEA 2x daily, calcium citrate 500mg 2x daily, magnesium glycinate 400mg 2x daily, antioxidant complex 1x daily, sublingual b complex 2x daily; I also take 500mg of l-carnitine 3x daily between meals, which I believe to be key, as it has greatly increased endurance in competitive athletes in a few double blind studies, as it digests fats, and lowers lipids & triglycerides. Energy and stamina have returned enough to get high quality workouts (med to high weight, low rep, multiple sets); also the need for naps have subsided. At 44, I am starting to feel I can keep up with the kids again in the gym, and actually stay awake at night time social gatherings. I also have eliminated flour and refined sugar from my diet.

One week update

Well guys I have taken my testosterone patch for one week now and I wanted to give you an update.

My noctural erections are back with a vengenance. I am having rock hard erections EVERY morning. Mrs 7 made a comment last nite that my dick “felt like a thick steel rod”. After sex last nite my dick stayed in a semi erect position for quite a while, I know I could have done an encore performance.

I have lost 3 lbs. I have not changed my eating or drinking habits at all. I have cut back on my cardio and increased my weight lifting yet still lost weight. Totally unheard of for me. If anything my appetite has decreased and my sugar cravings are virtually non-existent.

I have energy all day long. I am not tired all the time.

My mental focus has returned for the most part. I have seen a vast improvement in this although I am not up to par. I am very happy with the improvement and hope that it continues to improve. I used to be able to do ten things at once but lately that hasnt. I have a general feeling of well being. I have always been a very positive person but the past number of months I have an outlook that was much more depressed. I am less cranky and short tempered for sure.

The patches are very easy to use. You just take one daily and place it on your shoulder, arm, hip, or upper leg. It stays on even in the shower. I normally change mine after I leave the gym in the morning after I have showered.

I have not taken any of the usual supplements that I take except for Propecia and lovastatin. All the GNC products are sitting in the drawer. I wanted to have as clean a system as possible.

My facial hair is coming in faster and much thicker.

So far so good. I will continue to keep you guys informed.

And lastly, on another note. I cant thank you guys enough for the suggestions, comments and general caring that you have heaped upon me. I really dont have anyone close enough to me, other than PirateSteve that I can talk about this with, so your comments come as great support. Thanks again.


You all are still missing the point... The story was great and all but should have ass (and) some anal in it.- RWG

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