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Topical DHT for nNOS

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Topical DHT for nNOS

I want to try DHT on my dick, not for PE, but to increase certain factors such as VEGF and TGF- beta 2 and grow nNOS containing nerve fibres, i.e. for libido/sensation. However, I don’t want to cause a down regulation of testosterone. Do you think taking an aromatase inhibitor with the DHT would keep my androgens from plummeting?


Pussy Pounder

Ok, not an aromatase inhibitor (or just that). Maybe something that boosts luteinising hormone, like Novedex XT?


Pussy Pounder

I think bodybuilders do something like this don’t they? They take steroids/prohormones, then near the end of their cycle they start up post cycle therapy. I guess I’ll just have to try it…


Pussy Pounder

So you’re thinking that topical application of DHT on your dick is going to increase libido and sensation? What do you base that on? I would expect that any credible information source advocating such an approach would also be reputable enough to address the potential side effects and how to deal with them.

And no, you don’t just have to try it. You may choose to try it, but you don’t have to.


For Lampwick, becoming hung like a donkey was the result of a total commitment.

Lampwick are you a scientist? I’m not. If you are, would you mind reviewing the research that I’ve found please?

It could be that I don’t even need exogenous DHT because Novedex XT can increase it by an average of 566% (but guys have reported estrogen levels can get too low on full doses).

Eight weeks of aromatase inhibition using the nutritional supplement Novedex XT: effects in young, eugonadal men.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/…Pubmed_RVDocSum

Vascular endothelial growth factor is up-regulated in vitro and in vivo by androgens
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/…Pubmed_RVDocSum

Androgens regulate vascular endothelial growth factor content in normal and malignant prostatic tissue.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/…tractPlusDrugs1

Growth factor therapy and neuronal nitric oxide synthase.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/…Pubmed_RVDocSum

The additive erectile recovery effect of brain-derived neurotrophic factor combined with vascular endothelial growth factor in a rat model of neurogenic impotence.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/…Pubmed_RVDocSum

The effect of vascular endothelial growth factor and brain-derived neurotrophic factor on cavernosal nerve regeneration in a nerve-crush rat model.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/…Pubmed_RVDocSum

I’ve found contradicting evidence about TGF beta 2. DHT seems to reduce it in androgen dependent tissues.

There might be hope with Cialis too. I’m not sure.

Tadalafil, a long-acting type 5 phosphodiesterase isoenzyme inhibitor, improves neurological functional recovery in a rat model of embolic stroke.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/…Pubmed_RVDocSum


Pussy Pounder

I’m not a scientist, nor do I play one on TV (and I didn’t sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night) but thanks for the links! I really appreciate the chance to take a look at some of the material that you’ve been considering.

I’ll take a look at them and let you know what thoughts I might have after that. One thought that comes to mind is that a lot of the links seem to deal with recovery from injury or suboptimal functionality (such as impotence). What works to fix an injury or get someone back to normal may not take someone who is already at 100% and boost them to 110%.

I’ll post again after I’ve had a chance to review your links.


For Lampwick, becoming hung like a donkey was the result of a total commitment.

Cool :) . I’m not at 100%. My problem is low libido and sensation. Had it for a long time. Did PE too intensely.

What applies to rats may or may not apply to humans. This is all experimental.


Pussy Pounder

Originally Posted by Pussy Pounder
Lampwick are you a scientist? I’m not. If you are, would you mind reviewing the research that I’ve found please?

It could be that I don’t even need exogenous DHT because Novedex XT can increase it by an average of 566% (but guys have reported estrogen levels can get too low on full doses).

Eight weeks of aromatase inhibition using the nutritional supplement Novedex XT: effects in young, eugonadal men.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/…Pubmed_RVDocSum


This study indicates that Novedex XT significantly increases serum androgen levels and decreases fat mass. However, increasing serum androgen alone is not the recipe to a larger penis, or at least some of those steroid-abusing bodybuilders or weightlifters would have reported penis growth as a steroid use side effect. I have never seen increased penis size listed as a result of increased androgens outside of those who were clinically deficient to begin with, and even in that population, the growth was not unlimited.

Originally Posted by Pussy Pounder
Vascular endothelial growth factor is up-regulated in vitro and in vivo by androgens
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/…Pubmed_RVDocSum


Injection (not topical application) of testosterone leads to rats having heavier prostates and a “7-fold increase in the prostate content of VEGF”. I don’t see where that leads to a bigger or healthier or more sensitive penis.

Originally Posted by Pussy Pounder
Androgens regulate vascular endothelial growth factor content in normal and malignant prostatic tissue.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/…tractPlusDrugs1


Cut off androgens, and the prostate’s growth rate (either from cancer or from benign enlargement) is slowed. The prostate is more sensitive to androgens than other tissues. More androgens means more growth factor in the prostate than in other tissues. Again, nothing here about whether a supraphysiological level of androgens has any effect, positive or negative, on the penis.

Originally Posted by Pussy Pounder
Growth factor therapy and neuronal nitric oxide synthase.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/…Pubmed_RVDocSum


This study has to do with return to normal function after injury to the cavernous nerves or ligation of pudendal arteries. When that happens, neuronal nitric oxide synthase (nNOS) decreases, and intracavernous injection of vascular endothelial growth factor or brain-derived neurotrophic factor facilitates the recovery of nNOS and erectile function. Again, seemingly very little applies here to a healthy penis, or even one with a slight degree of PE-induced injury (if you believe in the injury and recovery model of PE). And I don’t think you were talking about injecting anything into your penis. You were talking about applying DHT to it.

Originally Posted by Pussy Pounder
The additive erectile recovery effect of brain-derived neurotrophic factor combined with vascular endothelial growth factor in a rat model of neurogenic impotence.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/…Pubmed_RVDocSum


The recovery of rats with cavernosal nerve injury is benefited by vascular endothelial growth factor and brain-derived neurotrophic factor. Again, I’m not seeing implications for the improvement of the already healthy penis.

Originally Posted by Pussy Pounder
The effect of vascular endothelial growth factor and brain-derived neurotrophic factor on cavernosal nerve regeneration in a nerve-crush rat model.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/…Pubmed_RVDocSum


An intracavernosal injection with brain-derived neurotrophin factor and vascular endothelial growth factor helps stop degeneration and improves function in rats with crushing injuries to the cavernosal nerve. Once again, injected growth factors help significant nerve injuries. Encouraging as a future therapy against impotence in men facing prostate surgery, but it doesn’t seem transferable to improving the function of a healthy penis.

Originally Posted by Pussy Pounder
I’ve found contradicting evidence about TGF beta 2. DHT seems to reduce it in androgen dependent tissues.

There might be hope with Cialis too. I’m not sure.

Tadalafil, a long-acting type 5 phosphodiesterase isoenzyme inhibitor, improves neurological functional recovery in a rat model of embolic stroke.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/…Pubmed_RVDocSum


Both Viagra and Cialis help neurological improvement after stroke. Again, I’m not seeing implications there for improvement in function or size for an already healthy penis.

Transforming growth factor-beta (TGF beta) is a potent growth inhibitor in most epithelial cells.
(http://mend.endojournals.org/cgi/co…stract/5/8/1120) But growth inhibition is not a negative thing. It is part of the body’s balancing act. We strive for healthy growth, not just any growth we can get.

In short (way too late for that), I’m not seeing that any of these links support applying DHT to your penis for the purpose of making it bigger, healthier or more sensitive.


For Lampwick, becoming hung like a donkey was the result of a total commitment.

Originally Posted by Pussy Pounder
Cool :) . I’m not at 100%. My problem is low libido and sensation. Had it for a long time. Did PE too intensely.

What applies to rats may or may not apply to humans. This is all experimental.


If you have low libido, have you seen a doctor about it? The same with reduced sensation. There are multiple potential medical causes for low libido and sensation. Get the doctors on your side on this.

If you are complaining of reduced sensation, I can understand your interest in growth factor, but I’m not seeing anything in those links that suggests that topical application of androgens is the answer.

You aren’t diabetic, by any chance? I did a Google search on testosterone and peripheral neuropathy, and came up with this link, http://www.springerlink.com/content/24048347454r7271/, entitled “Testosterone derivatives are neuroprotective agents in experimental diabetic neuropathy”. It concludes “These observations indicate that T metabolites can reverse behavioral, neurophysiological, morphological and biochemical alterations induced by peripheral diabetic neuropathy.”

It’s a stretch to think that topically applied DHT is going to help increase sensation, but those links and that last article do give some hope for future medical treatment under a doctor’s supervision.


For Lampwick, becoming hung like a donkey was the result of a total commitment.


Last edited by Lampwick : 02-11-2008 at .

Thanks Lampwick :)

I haven’t seen a urologist about my condition. It would be good to know exactly what is wrong. It’s just that it’s embarrassing!

Anyway, I don’t think I’ll be applying DHT to my dick. But I will cycle on and off Novedex XT. Hopefully it will at least help me get stronger at the gym.

I was looking at once a day doses of sildenafil and tadalafil yesterday. I have a preference for tadalafil because of its long half life. But, at least in rats, it doesn’t appear to upregulate endothelial and neuronal nitric oxide synthase expression (eNOS and nNOS), while sildenafil does. There have been year long trials proving that sildenafil can restore spontaneous erectile capability (although I think I have a different form of ED than the guys surveyed), and none with tadalafil.

Long-term treatment of erectile dysfunction with a phosphodiesterase-5 inhibitor and dose optimization based on nocturnal penile tumescence.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/…Pubmed_RVDocSum

Improved spontaneous erectile function in men with mild-to-moderate arteriogenic erectile dysfunction treated with a nightly dose of sildenafil for one year: a randomized trial.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/…tractPlusDrugs1

Return of Nocturnal Erections and Erectile Function after Bilateral Nerve-sparing Radical Prostatectomy in Men Treated Nightly with Sildenafil Citrate: Subanalysis of a Longitudinal Randomized Double-blind Placebo-controlled Trial.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/…tractPlusDrugs1

Sildenafil induces angiogenic response in human coronary arteriolar endothelial cells through the expression of thioredoxin, hemeoxygenase and vascular endothelial growth factor.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/…Pubmed_RVDocSum

I still prefer tadalafil because of its half life, I’ve tried it several times already. It could be that it is just as effective as sildenafil when taken daily. In rats, it seems just as effective, but the problem is the following finding (in rats, it doesn’t upregulate eNOS and nNOS expression):

Effect of chronic tadalafil administration on penile hypoxia induced by cavernous neurotomy in the rat.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/…Pubmed_RVDocSum

But maybe it will work anyway.


Pussy Pounder

Good luck, and let us know how things work out for you.

I’ve seen some of the studies about daily sildenafil for endothelial rehabilitation: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/e…pt=AbstractPlus.

There has also been research on sildenafil and pumping after prostate surgery to maintain normal functionality during the recovery process: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/ar…z&artid=1751036


For Lampwick, becoming hung like a donkey was the result of a total commitment.

Thanks for those links Lampwick. I will post periodic reports :)

In addition to tadalafil I’ll also take:

Alpha lipoic acid (ALA)
Vascular endothelial dysfunction in aging: loss of Akt-dependent endothelial nitric oxide synthase phosphorylation and partial restoration by (R)-alpha-lipoic acid.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/…l=pubmed_docsum

Molecular aspects of lipoic acid in the prevention of diabetes complications.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/…Pubmed_RVDocSum

Vitamin C
Interactions of peroxynitrite, tetrahydrobiopterin, ascorbic acid, and thiols: implications for uncoupling endothelial nitric-oxide synthase.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/…Pubmed_RVDocSum

Pycnogenol
Pycnogenol, French maritime pine bark extract, augments endothelium-dependent vasodilation in humans.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/…Pubmed_RVDocSum

Treatment of erectile dysfunction with pycnogenol and L-arginine.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/…Pubmed_RVDocSum

L-carnosine (seems to work for me)
The natural substrate for nitric oxide synthase activity.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/…Pubmed_RVDocSum

I want to produce a lot of nitric oxide because it can increase VEGF, while ALA and C (above) protect against peroxynitrites:

Nitric oxide induces the synthesis of vascular endothelial growth factor by rat vascular smooth muscle cells.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/…tractPlusDrugs1

Genetic augmentation of nitric oxide synthase increases the vascular generation of VEGF.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/…tractPlusDrugs1


Pussy Pounder

Ok,

No L-carnosine because it has stopped working
No pycnogenol because I don’t know what it does to androgen receptors and VEGF


Pussy Pounder

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