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Physiologic Indicators (PIs) to help growth!

Great post sparky, you have explained that exactly in my language.

Suggestion for Thunder

Originally Posted by ThunderSS
Great work sparx. :up:

Thanks for bumping this thread (and sparkyx’s earlier, longer oneWhen I have made great gains, I…) to the top of the forum a few days ago. I haven’t read the longer one yet. But even after reading this condensed version, I’m wondering if it shouldn’t be included in “Most important Newbie threads” just to let guys know what to expect and look for up ahead.

Truly inspirational reading.Definitely gives me a new approach to PE.I’ve suspected lately that I’ve been over-training.Beginning today I will watch my PI’s and see where my gains go.Thanks for a very enlightening read sparkx!

BUMP. I’ve been doing PE closing in on half a year. Other than the Newbie routine which showed me what the heck to do, this has been the single most helpful thread I’ve read. I was lucky enough to have read it months ago, and I’ve returned to it several times since. It’s saved me a lot of grief, and helped me quickly fine-tune my regimine. Thank’s again, Sparky.

What you believe means nothing.

How you love means everything!

Very good indeed. Great job sparkyx.

Started :BPEL 7.0 x 5.5 Now: BPEL 7.6 x 5.8 Goal: NBPEL 8.6 x 6.3 "Don´t let yourself get attached to anything that you are Not willing to walk out on in 30 seconds flat if you feel the HEAT around th corner." --Robert De Niro (talking to Al Pacino in a caffe in the Movie HEAT)

Great thread and theory! It seems reliable and universal which I feel is unusual because of the classic “everybody is different” thinking. It’s been over a year now and no one has yet to disagree about it, quite the opposite, usually there’s always someone disagreeing, impressive! I’ve experienced most of those indicator and I also must agree it seems true. I also like to add some of my own experience. When I have a good jelq workout/session I’ve noticed that the veins on my dick becomes more prominent (when 100% erect especially) which for me anyway is a positive indicator, has anyone else experienced this or is it just me?

[I decided to post this here, it is my latest thoughts on this subject. This is copied from a thread on vacuum hanging and swing the wts…I was talking to BG.]

The only thing I will add (you’ve tempted me into shooting my mouth off!), is I feel beginners can work up a perfect routine…if they are patient.

My new approach is to put growth aside from your mind and go for a healthy dick! [By doing that, you have a much greater chance of growing a big dick too!]

That is to say, go for harder more frequent erections, along with a heavy flaccid…I might add, a constant slight hornyness too.

I say that because, almost universally, if you have your routine “in the zone” you will experience that.

Once you have the above PI’s…gradually increase time/wt while MAINTAINING those positive PI’s.

This will allow you to find your ideal time/force, while avoiding excessive time/force that stops growth and can actually result in shrinkage.

If you begin to see diminution of those positive PI’s…either stop the progression of your routine (time/wt) or BETTER YET, take an extra day off and go back to the last productive parameter you were using.

It may be slow at first, but you will experience the benefit of more powerful dick, which in itself is great and great for your sex partner.

You will guaranteed find a productive routine, and be able to stay in it far better and longer.

By rushing into your best guess, and constantly changing…it could be YEARS to find a productive routine…IF EVER!!!

I have been using 5 lbs in 5 minute increments (vacuum hanging with swing the wt). I’ve had to do this because of some real lymph vessel clogging issues.

What I found is that it is producing real fast re-gaining of my old girth, but not much length.

I know length will come when the wt finally hits the threshold on longitudinal plastic deformation or growth stimulus.

I plan on slowly increasing time and wt ( wt by 10 oz increments) while doing just as I proposed above.

One of the things I will advise guys like me is to separate PE from entertainment.

That is to say, develop a scientific basic plan and SLOWLY increase time/force while maintaining positive PIs.

If you get carried away with your time/force because it feels good ( and God knows that it can), you can totally blow your routine and progress.

Further, I advise guys to stay away from chemical/vitamin enhancers (cialis, viagra, arginine etc) UNTIL they get a read on what their routine is doing as far as their PI’s.

If you artificially enhance your erection, you will have no idea if you are overtraining…it will be masked by the chemical.

I truly believe that a healthy dick will grow much faster, better and safer than a beat to shit one.

Finally, I really like vacuum hanging with swinging ( and moving the pivot point to where it is needed on the shaft) a lot, it seems to be a wonderful combination of hanging, pumping and erect bends.

That said, I think any method of applied force to the penis can be productive if you understand what you are trying to do…and how to go about it in a scientific manor.

BG, I KNOW this routine produces great girth gains (at the pivot point), and I don’t see how it wouldn’t produce length gains ( once you hit that wt threshold)…but what have YOU seen on length gains?

I know that has been the tough one for you.

I would think that hanging partially erect would INCREASE the force requirements for elongation, but thats just my gut feeling.

If that true, then maybe the way you are approaching it is the answer, moderate wt with longer time frames.

I think that is better anyway, I’ve discussed this before. I think its better to stimulate cell growth for prolonged steady progress…rather than plastic deformation…which will cause tissue adaptation which makes further changes more difficult/requiring greater forces.

[ just want to add one more thing…NEVER change a routine that is resulting in progress!!!!!! Wait until progress slows greatly or stops, then incrementally increase it until progress starts again.

The other alternative is to take a one or two week break and resume the routine that stopped working.

This is probably the wisest option to try first.

If during the break you make some gains…it reinforces the idea that you will benefit from occasional breaks more than increased force/time.

If you find you lose some progress during the break…shrinkage…it is a good indicator that you need to increase your force/time.]

I have also experienced all of those PI’s except for having a better flaccid hang all day after a workout. Usually lasts up to an hour.


Yes. I’ve also noticed the veins in my dick become very prominant after I jelq. I get a nice plump hang too. Good enough for motivation for me.

Start: 7.2" BPEL, EG = 5"

Current: 7 7/8" BPEL, 7" NBPEL, 8" BPFSL, EG(midshaft) = 5 5/8"

Goal: 8" NBPEL, EG = 6.5"


As others have already said, I think you have summed up and expanded on my experience/thinking on this topic very well. When I first started PE, I had the most incredible surge of “potency”; morning woods truly worthy of my namesake, and spontaneous woods reminiscent of awkward teenage years.

But as I added reps to my routine and started working with greater levels of erection, at some point, I started to lose those benefits, and gradually ventured into ED land; at times I would have to rest for several days to get normal functionality back. Eventually, I ended up with a (thankfully) mild injury which set me back for a month. During my rest, I started thinking “long and hard” about how it all happened, and how I could safely get back into PE.

I reasoned that the best program is to start with the minimum time/jelqs/sets needed to keep those morning woods harder than normal and get spontaneous woods, measure often to monitor progress, and only add to the routine in small increments. As soon as functionality is not better than “normal”, and definitely if it decreases, cut back a little and keep an eye on the ruler and your unit.

I was specifically thinking that If I were to start dry jelqs again, I would start at only 20 per day and carefully increase by 10 every week or so; I doubt I would ever need to do as many 200/day again, but that’s just what the little fella downstairs is telling me when I listen to him for a change. :)

Incidentally, I think being a little sore (and for me, getting a little endorphin rush, or “runner’s high”) after a session is good as long as it goes away after several hours, but you should not be going to bed sore, in my experience.


It is too often overlooked that your body communicates with you in this way, and when you listen, your body responds.

I think of my penis like it has its own personality. I know that by keeping it happy it will grow. :-)

Start: EL 6.0 EG 4.5 - Current: EL 7.0 EG 5.0 - Chunked Down Goal: EL 7.5 EG 5.5 - Ultimate Goal: ************

I've gained an inch in a month with penis enlargement! If you have any questions about penis enlargement - ask me!

This reminds me of when I got this feeling of a good stretch (all around, length and girth) just by listening to a penisgrowth suggestive tape I made by myself.
Listen to your body, keep it happy and most importantly the other way round.
You are a mind / body machine, no matter if you feel it.. or not.


For those of you who are in search of reasons why you haven’t gained yet…and have read to this point, there is something I want to add.

I think Thunder’s is the best thing going for PE…hands down…bar none!

That said, I need to add that for a certain percent of men ( I don’t know what that percent is) most of the recommended Newbie routines are WAY TOO MUCH!

I fall in that category.

Whether its jelquing, pumping,clamping…whatever…the Newbie recommendations start me out at overtraining.

Guaranteed to fail!!!

So, what if you also fall into that category and don’t realize it?

You find at first its starting to work, maybe improved erections…but rapidly that starts to fade as tissue damage accumulates.

What do most of us do at that point? Correct…we RAMP UP the force/time!

As that also fails, maybe we do even more (if injury hasn’t stopped us cold).

When that fails…we start trying different methods…pumping, clamping, hanging, slamming your dick in a door…arginine, cialis, see Mary, anything and everything.

Some persist despite continued failure…some just give up. Some are forced to give up by injury.

I think we are really starting to get some breakthroughs in understanding how to make your dick grow, but if you see yourself in the above description this is what I suggest;

if you haven’t had decent nite wood since you’ve been PEing…take a few weeks off until nite and morning wood return nicely.

If you are older and haven’t had nite wood for a long time, AND you’ve beaten you dick up with PE…take a few weeks off also…hell, take a month off to be sure.

Now…once you have recovered, pick ONE type of pe, be it jelquing or hanging or whatever and start with a very modest time/force.

Lets use hanging for example…I started back with 2.5 lbs for 5 minutes!!! ONE SET!!!

Hell, I’d say do that EVERY OTHER DAY!

Its like I said in some of the above posts…shoot for a healthy dick, and rock hard erections FIRST AND FOREMOST!

If you start with that attitude,and STAY with that attitude you have a much better chance at a LARGE dick too!

By primarily striving for a healthy dick it will shift your mindset to where it should be, that is, as soon as you start to lose erectile quality…you will back off.

This is really the key for people like me (and maybe YOU) to achieve steady growth.

Once you have that rock hard nite and am erections, then you can SLOWLY, intelligently begin to ramp up the routine or add a different method to it.

Always change ONE variable at a time, and give it about 1-2 weeks to see where it is taking you.

Never do crap like go from one set of 5 lbs for 10 minutes of hanging to two sets of it, plus add some jelquing, pumping and clamping.

You will go straight into over training, set yourself back God knows how many days or weeks and have learned nothing!

Add one thing at a time and give it time to access your PIs.

Good luck, and with this knowledge, your chances of success are far higher!

ps feel free to PM me if you have any questions or need some advice concerning these concepts.

If I don’t get back to you right away, be patient…I will answer as soon as I become aware of it.


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