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Ligaments Shmigaments: The way to stretch?!

Also, I am still curious to how many guys experience a lower exit point. Anyone else?


TGC Theory | Who Says The Penis Isn't a Muscle?

"To leave the world a better place, to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived is to succeed." - Emerson

So for the people that have hung SD for a while does this mean that they would not see any gains in NBP? Did anyone have success?


5/1/04 Before: 6.75x4.75" started back up again. 2/1/06 7 4/16x5" 3/1/06 7 7/16x5"

Goal: 8.5x6"

focusing on length now with stretches, hanging, and jelqing

All of this assumes that the penile tissue remains fairly static and it is the relocation of “exit points” (through stretching ligaments) that contribute to the gains.

Must we discount the possibility of new tissue through bio-mechanical regeneration? I don’t really care for stretching the ligaments as much as I want mitosis to provide me a few extra inches of phallus.

Anyone?


"Debate the idea..."

goon baby - my thoughts exactly.

remek remarked that we only have so much ligs to work with.

He has discounted or forgotten the idea behind micro-tears and regeneration along the ligaments which is a proven occurence.

Not discrediting this theory, I do believe we find a lower exit point aswell.


Start 12/1/06 _ _ _ _ 3 month 3/2/06 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 4 month 4/2/06 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 5 month 5/2/06

6.6 X 4.75 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 7.25 x 4.90 _ _ _ _ _ _ _7.5 x 4.90 BaseGirth: 5.25 _ _ _ _ 7.75 x 4.90 10 month 9/24/06: Still 7.75 X 4.90 ---- I have focused primarily on girth and have not gained a CM in months.

Journal Pictures

Goon, not only mitosis, but hypertrophy too. We have been told countless times that the penis is not a muscle. Well, thats hogwash. The CCs, the CS, and the glans are approximately 50 percent (varies from person to person) smooth muscle. I may be jumping the gun, but smooth muscle can enlarged through hypertrophy and hyperplasia. I don’t know how much, but I’m looking into it.

Additionally, the tunica (the thing we all say we are growing), is a continuation of the BC & IC muscles (the muscles we use to kegel). In an essence, the tunica is a continuation of skeltal muscle! We all know skeltal muscle can grow. But it’s a little more complicated than that (as we all know, or we would all have 10 inch + wangs). The tunica is more like a tendon. A very strong one. Can it grow? Surely. But I bet the real growth is in the shaft too.


TGC Theory | Who Says The Penis Isn't a Muscle?

"To leave the world a better place, to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived is to succeed." - Emerson

Remek, I am unsure as to whether increasing the “strength” of the smooth muscle component of the CC and CS would lead to a larger penis. I could be mistaken, but I understand the purpose of the smooth muscle is to squeeze blood out of the shaft after an erection is no longer needed. Is it possible that building these muscles may add a bit of erect girth, but in the end give you a smaller/shorter flaccid? Just speculating.

Fallacy, I am familiar with the party line concerning “micro-tears”. I think that it is a valid mechanism for increasing the size of the penis, but I have some concerns about the long-term effects on the function of the penis. Fibrosis and scar tissue is the usual result of such injury and I would think that after a length of time, this non-responsive tissue could impede a healthy erection. I know the debate has been waged for years, but I don’t think we have really settled that issue yet.

Some of the stuff Ike and nameless others (only because I can’t remember right now) have discussed concerning long-term, low-impact stretching of ligaments make much more sense to me. Long-term elongation of the tissue activates the bio-mechanical response and triggers mitosis. Low-impact prevents (or lessens) the chances of injury (read “micro-tears”).

Injury can lead to cell death, which becomes increasingly important when what we want is more cell generation. Sure, your body will repair the injured cells, it may generate some new ones too, but how many will need to be replaced if you “hit it” too hard? Xenolith burned up some serious brain cycles trying to figure out his own “regeneration” sweet spot. I would LOVE to hear more about your current thoughts on the matter, Remek.

As I type this, I am wearing my ADS. Does slow and steady REALLY win the race?


"Debate the idea..."

Originally Posted by remek
Lee,

The besat tunica exercises are the ones in which you stretch upwards. The higher up you stretch, the more stress is focused on the inner penis. I actually have stumbled upo a very good inner penis stretch. I don’t know if it holds any merit, but I sure as hell feel the fatigue. I will post this stretch later this week — probably tomorrow.

Advanced tunica stretches include A-stretches (aka inverted V-stretches) that are pointed towards the ceiling. You will really feel the tunica stretch on with these. Any type of variation stretch that stretches upward works good on the tunica/inner penis.

For an actual shaft stretch, I have found that the double stretch/dual fulcrum stretch works best.
The Double stretch. has many names. They are commonly known as Dual fulcrum stretches. Call it what you want, I don’t care. The point is it stretches the penis/the tunica very well (and the skin too). To do this, grab your penis an inch below the glans and stretch outward with one hand.
With the other hand grab the penis an inch above base and stretch inward (i.e. towards your pubic bone).
Basically, you are are stretching outward with one hand and inward with the other hand. This provides an amazing stretch along the penis (especially in the areas between the two hands). Even more so, where the two stretches meet there will be great tension (and great traction — what we are aiming for when stretching). I do this stretch for 1 minute for a total of 5 sets. Again, 5 minutes of total Double stretch time.

I have created my own variation of this stretch. I call it the Rotating Double stretch. This is an advanced variation so wait at least 2-4 weeks before adapting to it. Again, the quicker you move up, the more liable to injury you are, and the less chance of gaining you will have.

Basically, do a rotating stretch while doing the double stretch.

Hope it helps.

- remek

Remek,

Thanks very much for the insight into tunicae exercises.

As I am still a newbie - been on the newbie routine for over 4 months now - I’ll give it another 4 months before giving those ‘Dual Fulcrum Stretches’ & ‘Rotating Double Stretches’ a go. All in all, it sounds very logic to me the way you’ve explained it & I’m always open to various suggestions or even theories.

Thanks again Remek.

- Lee Beast

Originally Posted by remek
A little more clarification quik,

Personally, although I am not at liberty to state this as fact, I am beginning to believe that ligament stretching isn’t the easiest way to make gains. So, in an essence, yes I think focusing on the shaft (the tunica, if you will), is the best way to go. It is quite clear that the ligament gains are very limited, and maybe even much more limited then we perceive them to be. And as I stated in my first post, the gains aren’t even gains. They are BPEL gains. Sure, if you push against your woman with enough force they will work, but they won’t be as visually pleasing.

But, like I stated above, you might not want to give up on the ligaments either. Although, it doesn’t appear to be the best source of gains, it surely provides a little bit (such as the quarter of an inch one guy noted above). Thus, I am giving you the same answer: Hit it all, but focus more on the tunica. That is what I am going to do.


Thanks for clarifying.

I know I shouldn’t have jumped to conclusions, but it was just so tempting.

I’ll keep your advice in mind when I do my stretches.

Keep up the good work, remek.


The aim of life is self-development. To realize one's nature perfectly - that is what each of us is here for.

~Oscar Wilde~

Originally Posted by goonbaby
Remek, I am unsure as to whether increasing the “strength” of the smooth muscle component of the CC and CS would lead to a larger penis. I could be mistaken, but I understand the purpose of the smooth muscle is to squeeze blood out of the shaft after an erection is no longer needed. Is it possible that building these muscles may add a bit of erect girth, but in the end give you a smaller/shorter flaccid? Just speculating.

I am doing a lot of reading on this as we speak. From what I understand, the smooth muscle is very important for having an erection, and detumescence (returning to the flaccid state). They actually line the sinusoids (the cavity spaces in the CCs and CS), and they line the glans too. Whether building these muscles provides a bigger penis is up for debate, but I think it might help. Along with making the smooth muscle bigger (through hypertrophy), I think we are also producing more of them. We already know the former is possible. Through tests on rabbits, it has been shown that an increase in smooth muscle bundle size is not only possible, but has already happened.

Originally Posted by goonbaby
Fallacy, I am familiar with the party line concerning “micro-tears”. I think that it is a valid mechanism for increasing the size of the penis, but I have some concerns about the long-term effects on the function of the penis. Fibrosis and scar tissue is the usual result of such injury and I would think that after a length of time, this non-responsive tissue could impede a healthy erection. I know the debate has been waged for years, but I don’t think we have really settled that issue yet.

To be honest, I don’t think anything has been settled. There are many ideas floating around. Plastic deformation, LOT theory, micro tears, etc.. But none of them have gone past the level of an idea and into a testing phase.

Originally Posted by goonbaby
As I type this, I am wearing my ADS. Does slow and steady REALLY win the race?

I think a combination of intense exercises, followed by light exercises, followed by a deconditiong break (maybe in a different order), might be the fastest way to the finish line. We already know a decondition break helps out gains tremendously… it helped out you, if I remember correctly, it helped MX, memento, and countless others.


TGC Theory | Who Says The Penis Isn't a Muscle?

"To leave the world a better place, to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived is to succeed." - Emerson

Originally Posted by Lee Beast
Remek,

Thanks very much for the insight into tunicae exercises.

As I am still a newbie - been on the newbie routine for over 4 months now - I’ll give it another 4 months before giving those ‘Dual Fulcrum Stretches’ & ‘Rotating Double Stretches’ a go. All in all, it sounds very logic to me the way you’ve explained it & I’m always open to various suggestions or even theories.

Thanks again Remek.

- Lee Beast

Lee you are very welcome. This is the best way I understand it at the time. I don’t know if it is dead on accurate, but maybe more research will bring more insight. Personally, as I have stated for a long time, I think there are many many factors that contribute to gains. I’ve said this since last year in my theory log thread - PE Theory

The purpose of this thread is that I think we have highly overestimated the ligament factor. Too many guys are worrying about their lig potential.


TGC Theory | Who Says The Penis Isn't a Muscle?

"To leave the world a better place, to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived is to succeed." - Emerson

Originally Posted by remek
I am doing a lot of reading on this as we speak. From what I understand, the smooth muscle is very important for having an erection, and detumescence (returning to the flaccid state). They actually line the sinusoids (the cavity spaces in the CCs and CS), and they line the glans too. Whether building these muscles provides a bigger penis is up for debate, but I think it might help. Along with making the smooth muscle bigger (through hypertrophy), I think we are also producing more of them. We already know the former is possible. Through tests on rabbits, it has been shown that an increase in smooth muscle bundle size is not only possible, but has already happened.


Keep us posted on this. I am “all about” the frontier, you know?

Originally Posted by remek
To be honest, I don’t think anything has been settled. There are many ideas floating around. Plastic deformation, LOT theory, micro tears, etc.. But none of them have gone past the level of an idea and into a testing phase.

So, how can we devise an appropriate “testing phase” for these theories? I know they have been discussed to death…but I need to pursue it scientifically. I am willing to work out the details if you all lend me your evil masterminds.


"Debate the idea..."

This is what we would have to do in my opinion:

First) Take the best three theories and build the ideal routine for each one.
Second) Get 40 dedicated beginners to let us borrow their dicks.
Third) 10 beginners in each theory group, and 10 in a control group.
Fourth) Testing phase.

Thunder’s Place tried to do this a long time ago, but I think it failed. I’m not sure what happened. I think it had something to do with the dedication of the participants?


TGC Theory | Who Says The Penis Isn't a Muscle?

"To leave the world a better place, to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived is to succeed." - Emerson

I received a PM questioning about the “double rotating stretch” (aka the dual fulcrum stretch, with my twist).

First, as I stated above, I don’t recommend this stretch to a beginner. This stretch is very intense for me. You might be different.
This stretch combines two stretches:
1) The double stretch/ dual fulcrum / any name you want to call it
2) The rotating stretch / rotor stretch. This stretch can be found here: Simple Manual Stretches Video

What I do:
The double stretch:
Grab an inch below the glans with my right hand. Do not grab the head of the penis, ever (not with this stretch, or any other one.) I pull straight out with this hand.
Grab a 1/2 inch above the pubic bone (from the base of my shaft) with my left hand. I pull straight in with this hand (towards my pubic bone). At this point, I am pulling my penis in two different directions.

I now add the rotating stretch. To do this, I keep my left hand (the base hand that is pulling inwards) in the same position. I don’t move it, and I continue to pull inward. The real change is in my right hand (the hand that is 1 inch below the glans). With this hand I do the rotor stretch as described in the free video link I provided above.

I do this for approximately 30-60 seconds.


TGC Theory | Who Says The Penis Isn't a Muscle?

"To leave the world a better place, to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived is to succeed." - Emerson

Originally Posted by remek

The best tunica exercises are the ones in which you stretch upwards.

Maybe. Certainly, upward stretching subjects more of the shaft to tension than downward stretching. However, downward stretching may in some cases apply more stress to the dorsal fibers of the tunica. So, I’m not totally sure that upward stretching is always best for the tunica.


Enter your measurements in the PE Database.

MM,

Very true. I Should have been more accurate about my statement. The best shaft exercises are the ones that stretch up.

But, IMO, that is really what we are aiming for — shaft growth.


TGC Theory | Who Says The Penis Isn't a Muscle?

"To leave the world a better place, to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived is to succeed." - Emerson

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