Does your sex drive fluctuate? By how much?

No, you should be laughing. :)

I swear, I could not make this up even if I tried to. We were discussing my situation and I took the lead saying how low testosterone could explain my issues and that while inside the reference range, I was on the lower end.

I have to say that I was mildly shocked when I saw her open Google and type “testosterone” in front of my very eyes and saying she needed a “time-out” to read up on this. After the initial shock had settled, I knew that I would walk away with a prescription of clomiphene, which was my agenda all the time. I think she even believed it was her own idea when I walked out of there. :)

That is damn funny stuff.

On the one hand you don’t want to disrespect Doctors who, at times, have extremely stressful jobs and do a great service for so many. Half the time while being abused, threatened or sued by patients. On the other hand you meet gross incompetents like these and just have to shake your head.

Thank God for the internet and the availability of so much information that we can use to help educate Doctor’s with.

I just want to briefly go over a list of options point by point. This way you can keep track and cross them off your list and I’ll feel like I’ve left no stone unturned.

1.Varicocele.
2.Dopamine insufficiency.
3.Iron overload/deficiency
4.CFS/FM
5.Low testosterone.
6.Receptor desensitization
7.Pituitary adenoma
8.a-melanocyte simulating hormone/ACTH

The cortisol is interesting. Adrenals can definitely play a part in this as well. As can Thyroid - TSH.

One thing you might consider for your feeling tired and old is drinking whey protein and stimulating glutathione production. If this is done on a near daily basis you should see some metabolic/energy recovery. Although what I hear sounds like it could be some chronic state that is causing you to not be absorbing nutrients very well. There’s so many ways to go with this. Vit D combined with vit A. Also supplementing lots of Magnesium.
Try not to take anything together unless otherwise indicated. Some things compete/interfere with each other and some things facilitate.

Hello Pavlovsdog,

That`s quite a list there. :)

1. Varicocele:

This is a condition that has never been suggested to me, neither by doctors or other knowledgeable people on the internet, so thanks for bringing this up. I`m sheduled for a full body check with ultra sound with one of the best here in Norway by the end of April, so I guess I will rule out this one after that. I have at times and also for the last days actually felt some slight discomfort in my sack, but I have always thought it was because of tight jeans and a normal phenomenon. I can`t say that my balls are very large either and I have been a little conscious about it, but I do not think they are abormally small. Sometimes they are bigger. Hopefully, I`ll get some answers after the ultra sound.

2. Dopamine insufficiency:

I did a quick research on this and several of the symptoms fit. I`ve gone through a rough patch in the recent years with a lot of stress and lack of sleep, which was listed as possible causes for this condition.

I was severly depressed following my little breakdown after a long, long period of little sleep, hard workouts, a tough physical job, tough diet, etc, but today, I can`t say I feel depressed at all, although I perhaps may lack a little enthusiasm at times. Nothing out of the norm I think.

Treatment? L-Tyrosine and L-Dopa?

Incidentally, I have Mucuna Pruriens at hand. L-Tyrosine should be possible to retrieve, even here in Norway.

3. Iron overload/deficiency

I`m quite confident that this one can be ruled out. At least not deficiency. My ferritin levels and serum iron seems to be in control. I wonder if my elevated ferritin levels in the past was due to some inflammatory condition or illness that I carried during the time I truly felt horrible. I`m giving blood on Monday, so I will get updated bloodwork and a complete iron panel then.

4. Chronic fatigue syndrome or fibromyalgia.

I`ve done some research here and quite honestly, I don`t think my condition is that severe. At least not today. If you asked me when I first started researching this, I would probably have said yes, because then most of the symptoms would probably fit. I literally had to expend a lof energy simply by sitting up straight in my chair.

5. Low testosterone.

Well, my testosterone is certainly not high and I`ve heard a lot of conflicting information here ranging from “Get on TRT ASAP and don`t look back” to “You`re perfectly fine”.

Personally, I think that while my testosterone is not high, I`m not quite sure if that is the real reason considering that I`m after all fairly strong in the gym, although I`ve certainly put in a lot of effort and years to get where I am. So maybe that`s not indicative at all. I also grow a beard, but I don`t know if that mean anything. I also have times where I feel great, but I guess that can be explained by a testosterone spike. Hard to say really.

6. Receptor desenzitation.

I think I may need a little more information on this one.

7. Pituitary adenoma

Not sure how I can convince my doctor to look into this. Any ideas?

8. A-melanocyte simulating hormone/ACTH:

Any more information on this point? :)

9. Mononucleosis.

A friend of mine who were totally burned out discovered that he may have had this. Last fall, he hit rock bottom and was away from work for 6-8 weeks. The doctors did not find anything. Now, a month ago he got some bloodwork done because he was sick again and they suspected mono. The tests came back negative, but they discovered anti-bodies for mono, such that he must have had it earlier according to the doctors. Suddenly, he felt he got a lot of answers for why he felt like he did last fall.

Personally, I looked into this as a possible cause for when I really was feeling like shit, but I lacked the symtoms related to the throat, so I wrote it off. My friend did not experience that either, but was told that it was not a necessity for the condition, as I thought it was. Regardless, if I had it back then, I assume it is not revelant for my current symptoms…

You also mentioned herbs. Actually, I`ve been looking into this and I seemed to have some success with Tongkat Ali in the past, but I got enthusastic and did not cycle it properly, i.e., I may have used it for extended periods before stopping and the effect seemed to wear off. I still have a bottle at home with my parents, so I may give this a shot one more time.

Maca. I tried this for 10 days recently, but did not notice any positive effects, nor negative at first. During the last days on it, I was feeling a little anxious for no reason, so believing the Maca may have caused it, I decided to quit. Which was not hard considering it had not done anything positive for me either.

Currently, I`m using Ginkgo Biloba (started a week ago), but I can`t say I notice anything yet. I also use multivitamin, vitamin D3, vitamin C, fish oil and my diet is fairly healthy in my opinion. I also get some time in the sun everyday.

Current status: I would say that on average, my overall state and well-being have been much better recently and I don`t feel particularly fatigued or tired. Sure, I have more potential, no doubt, but it is far from how I`ve been feeling in the past. Maybe I`m getting used to it and have adjusted. :)

Libido and EQ though could easily have been better. On average, I have no problems ejaculating daily and feeling moderately horny, but still, I feel something is not as it should. I very rarely wake up with wood and during the times when I do, it is usually half-provoked in half-sleep on my own accord and not very strong. My erections also does not feel full, for lack of a better word. It is a very noticeable feeling.

I do think I would be able to get it on just fine with a lady right now and the idea is tempting, but still, I lack that raging desire. When I really lacked libido and EQ, I do not lie when I say that a woman could have rubbed her naked groin against me and I would not have cared on way or the other. At least I function now.

3-4 weeks ago, I experienced very strong libido and had to release several times per day on many occassions and usually walked around with a plump penis all day long. As always, I have no idea what caused it, as there was nothing particular going on. I was having contact with a few girls, but that I do now as well, so I don`t think that is the connection. Then, it disappeared.

I have wondered if my libido and other issues may be separate or even inversely related, because there have been times where I feel truly great and well-rested, but my dick feels lifeless and I have no physical desire. Then, I may have great libido and feel fairly fatigued. Still, I don`t think the correlation is strong enough to conclude an inverse relationship. Just an observation.

I also experimented with melatonin. This guy I`ve been talking to felt fairly confident that I may have a cortisol rhythm that is out of whack because I have been going late to bed. He recommended high doses of melatonin 6-9 mg and going to bed at 10 PM. Personally, I have a VERY hard time to accomplish that due to my schedule, but I certainly will be in bed by midnight. Anways, whether it was random or not, my libido was completely down the drain after using melatonin, so I quit using it rather quickly. I don`t have any problems getting to sleep, quite the contrary, so it was easy to quit.

D-Aspartic Acid is also a supplement that I was suggested, so I bought that as well and I`m considering trying out that as well along with the other stuff I currently use. I read about a lot of guys who improved libido greatly by using it, but some people also experienced nasty side-effects.

I ended up rambling here, but hopefully there is some sense in what I wrote.

Thanks again and take care!

Renholder

You mentioned other details to rhyme off.

Well, I can tell you that I experienced a significant increase in libido while on a PSMF cutting diet.

When I first became aware that I really had a problem, I had been cutting bodyfat using an intermittent fasting diet (16 hours of fasting and 8 hours of eating). Not sure how much you know about it, but it is a fairly well known diet these days and the calorie deficit was not severe at all. The only thing I can critique about the diet and a possible cause for my “crash” was that it was very low on fat.

Anyways, after realizing I had issues, I started eating like a horse and hoping to salvage the wreck. This improved my condition some, but not immensely. I then decided to to a PSMF diet, which is a moderate calorie deficit for 10 days or so, living only on protein and little to none carbohydrates and fat. It is a safe extreme diet popularized by Lyle McDonald. I was going on a holiday and wanted to shed a few pounds.

To my surprise, I experienced a significant increase in libido while on this diet, which is the opposite of what one would expect.

Personally, I did not know what to make out of that, but I thought it was interesting. I have considered if I could be having any food allergies, but I would assume the body would give other signals if I ate something I`m allergic to.

I`m ready to possibly experiment with this again and see if it happens again or if it was a random occurrence.

I am in sort of the same boat as you Renholder.

I am in my early 20’s and have started losing EQ very rapidly. Usually I could rub my penis a few times and be on the way to a boner, but now I have to have heavy stimulation just to get a boner which isn’t particularly hard, goes easily and is shorter than what my penis used to be!

I’m not sure what’s causing it, but my doctor dosen’t care. She said it’s probably depression and left it at that.

Other symptoms include: Tiredness, extreme apathy, lack of concentration, no motivation etc.

Not good. If I ever get the rock hard erections I used to get (my penis would point to the sky!), I shall never take it for granted again!

I think it is normal to not have “teenager wood” for the rest of our lives, but it sounds like what you are experiencing may be a little more serious.

How long have you had these issues? A slump is normal, but if it is persistent and not improving, you should look into it.

The first thing to do is to get bloodwork done. If your doctor is not interested in co-operating, find a new one or go directly to an endocrinologist in the private sector if you have to.

There is a lot of other stuff that can impact your sexual function as well, ranging from stress, anxiety, psychological issues, lack of sleep, etc. Often, embracing a healthy lifestyle is enough to turn things around if you don`t already work out and eat healthy.

Good luck!

Regards,

Renholder

Considering your dilemma, I wish you the best. What are you doing on melatonin. Seems dangerous??

Low testosterone? Hit the gym eat properly nd enjoy some fresh raw onions and chopped garlic.. You will feel better with consistent eating order. What’s your weight at? Usually when men are under weight, yea their testosterone levels drop, but as they rise…to meet Demand your food will be there to balance you out since nutrition requirement increase.

You say you have a tough schedule. But never skip sleep, it works against you entirely.

Im not over 22 years old, so low libido might be an age thing. But wheres that motivation? Testosterone

As for desire part 2. Have some fun dude, play that numbers game, nothing more satisfying than fucking a chick that rejects you at first

I did some research on melatonin and apparently it is very safe. However, I don`t think I need it, so I quit after two nights. One theory was that I have a cortisol rhythm out of balance and that melatonin would help on this. I was never told if the melatonin itself regulated cortisol or only my sleeping habits. If it is only the latter, I certainly don`t need it.

I already hit the gym and I eat very well. Not underweight.

My schedule used to be extremely tough and I have underslept for very extended periods of time, which I believe may have contributed to my condition today. However, today I sleep well and enough almost every night.

I will keep playing the numbers game, but it`s not as fun when the desire in your body disappears. :)

Plenty of low testosterone guys still do fine in the gym and grow a beard. Low energy and depression like syndrome are also symptoms of lowered testosterone levels. I have a very good friend who suffered from many of the same symptoms as you report until he finally tried TRT at 28. He almost instantly reported improved energy and a better psychological state. His gym performance, which had been good, improved. TRT will help you to recover from exercise or strenuous activity better and faster. Clomid does raise LH levels and is generally used by bodybuilders coming off of a cycle of steroids and seeking to jump start their own production. While clomid helps do this, most users report negative emotional side effects and depression. So, clomiphene probably isn’t a good choice given your complaints. I would embrace TRT, preferably shots, which should not hurt much if administered correctly. Creams also work, but not nearly as well as injections.

Hello doggmann,

Thank you for your input.

If I knew beyond the shadow of a doubt that I needed TRT to have a good/excellent quality of life, I would not hesitate. However, since I don`t know for sure yet, I think I will want to have every stone turned first and see if I can find a natural solution. The thing is that my condition can be explained by a lot of things. Perhaps I have supressed testosterone levels because of some other condition in my body or maybe my testosterone levels actually are acceptable, but my libido is missing.

With TRT there is the risk of infertility and one is also dependent on external testeosterone for the rest of one`s life, which may or may not be a pain.

Do you know if your friend also had low libido and whether that came back with the TRT? I`ve heard of guys who went on TRT and improved every aspect EXCEPT libido, so it`s not always a guarantee it seems.

His libido improved tremendously. He has a really hot Asian girlfriend and he was not interested very often before TRT. I would also note that if you get TRT through a physician who is knowledgeable about this you won’t have fertility issues. I have another friend, 51 years old, who has been on TRT for over ten years and has fathered two children in that time. Sometimes we can waste years chasing every possible source of our discomfort when something as simple as TRT would have you living your life and not being obsessed with these health issues.

Thank you for your input, doggmann, I appreciate it.

I think that what I really need now is to find a knowledgeable physician who knows what he`s doing and can tell me if I need it or not. The GP I`ve been seeing recently, seems to be willing to put me on TRT, but I`m not sure if he really knows enough about it judging from some of his comments.

The thing about my state is that it`s not consistently depressed, such that it gives me reason to believe that I have the ability to function well without any assistance under certain conditions whatever the hell they are. Roughly 6 weeks ago or so, I had one entire week where my libido was raging and I had random boners throughout the day. Simply talking to girls online made me super horny and I had to release multiple times daily.

Then it disappeared.

Prior to the holidays, my libido was not very good, but I felt very at peak mentally (focused, concentrated and happy, not really caring about my lack of libido) and had good energy and strength physically. At the end of easter, I felt not so good in either department.

I guess it could be explained by cyclical peaks in testosterone, but the fact that it has happened when I`m tired and exhausted in the past is an interesting observation.

There’s another thread about this on here somewhere, and it mentions co-supplementation with pregnenolone amongst other things.. Do a search and see how you go ;)

Ren, I’m afraid I’m running out of ideas. There’s so many ways to go with such a complex system in the body as libido.

I’m grasping at straws and being wildly speculative just to brainstorm any possibilities that weren’t thought of yet.

The most interesting part for me was the fatigue you mentioned.

Adaptogens, like Ginseng, when taken over a long period of time, do seem to have an effect on overall health. Libido included.

I know a lot of people will take it once or twice and say ‘This stuff is worthless’. It won’t work in a day. Not much does. Except for really good yohimbe, which I don’t recommend for norepinephrine on a hair trigger and panic attacks. Instant pills are what pharmaceutical companies are praying for. Most meds take time to work as well. Weeks or months.

It’s a long trial and error experiment. Take care of your health first and foremost.

The Melanotan or Bremelanotide is a quicker fix but can have potential side effects or as yet unknown health risks. It’s used in the sun tanning peptide for injection.
Apparently it stimulates libido indirectly and enhances erections. I believe there’s a thread on here about it.

If you look at libido itself there are so many elements at work. One or two could be off and you’d notice.

From all you’ve said you’re dealing primarily with the Hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis. Seems like the direction to look into. Google it. There’s some great wikipedia articles covering that. There’s a lot of information for you in there.

I hope you get more input from others with some knowledge on the subject. It would be great to see answers for more people that might be suffering from something similar on here for sure. No one wants to live like that. It can mess up a good relationship. Unless you find a girl who has a really low sex drive. Then, as you discover what works for you, you can improve hers as well. Although a woman’s sex drive is even more complicated and rife with
problems all it’s own! Studies on that subject are getting closer but nowhere near to what is known about the male libido. We are simpler in that category, so I am hopeful.

Also Ren, the guy who talked about melatonin and cortisol I believe has some valid and interesting ideas.
Sounds like someone to share some knowledge with as this is one of the components related to libido and health.
Melatonin does not stimulate sex drive, it reduces it, BUT it does act on the ACTH levels and does affect cortisol. Like a see-saw. Another actor in this is cyclic AMP which forskolin has been shown to activate. Then it’s back to POMC to melanocyte-stimulating hormone and it’s synthetic version bremelanotide. See how everthing goes full circle and gets more muddy?

Also, do NOT take excessive amounts of vitamin D as it creates an imbalance of vit A. Take them together when possible or at the very least increase your A when you take vit D. They are synergistic and work together. Large amounts of only one creates an imbalance in the other.

I’m just waiting for a neurologist/endocrinologist to start posting on here. I’d like to learn something myself.