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Super Goat Weed.

LOL. I know. I take it from the funny side, for the same reason that you are asking me “what’s the deal”. My answer to that is “I don’t know, I don’t see any deal”, Please ask RootCap. lol Like I said before, I do not react with “feelings”; that is what lead humans to errors and unmeasured reactions, like for example making a big deal about an herb that most likely is not gonna cause people any problem.

And let’s clarify one thing: I haven’t insulted any moderator here at all. Not because I am arguing with somebody that is trying to falsely convince the public with unfounded information, means that I am offending somebody. And to be honest with you, I don’t care at all if the person on the other side is a moderator or a mesiah; I am using reason, critical thinking and common sense; logic is undeniable. Regarding the wrong approach to a discussion thread, that’s a totally different issue in which case under your judgement is wrong, and I take it as an advise, and again, NOT because you are a moderator.

I can see you two are talking through PM so tell him to not “insult” me, saying that I make false and irresponsible statements. Show me a clinical study to prove me wrong.

And since this thread is completely out of topic, which is irresponsible, I believe is better to take this conversation to private messages for respect to other users. Any further information regarding the original thread would be very helpfull if it is backed up by trusted information from the net, and not by simple emotions. :)


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Goal: 1' BPEL, 6.5" EG

Adverse effects

Yohimbine has significant side effects, such as anxiety reactions. According to the Mayo Clinic, yohimbine can be dangerous if used in excessive amounts.[11]

Higher doses of oral yohimbine may create numerous side effects, such as rapid heart rate, high blood pressure, overstimulation, insomnia and/or sleeplessness. Some effects in rare cases were panic attacks, hallucinations, headaches, dizziness, and skin flushing.[12]

More serious adverse effects may include seizures and renal failure. Yohimbine should not be consumed by anyone with liver, kidney, heart disease, or a psychological disorder.[12]

The range between an effective dose and a dangerous dose is very narrow; too large of a dosage can be harmful and toxic.[12] This may also lead to precipitation of panic disorder type reactions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yohimb…Adverse_effects

Originally Posted by djufo
………It can’t be more fool proof than that. To get the levels of yohimbine from bark extract, you need to take over 8 grams. That is clearily an overdose from any OTC yohimbe product. If you look at the list of ingredients of the poster, it contains yohimbe 2% extract 100mg. That is insignificant. Now if he tries to take 10 pills in one shot to get better effects, that is his problem….

8 grams = 8,000 milligrams.

8,000 x 2% = 160 milligrams

Dosage:
Although there are no standard accepted dosage recommendations for yohimbe, it is known that more than 40mg/day of yohimbine can result in adverse side effects such as dizziness, headaches, loss of coordination and hallucinations. Typical daily amounts of yohimbine alkaloids found in commercial supplements (label claims) are often in the range of 10-30mg and occasionally standardized to yohimbine or total alkaloid content.”

Scientific Support:
……. In the few studies conducted on the purified form of yohimbine, only about 30% of subjects reported beneficial effects in terms of erectile function and sexual performance.

Safety:
As the number of yohimbe products on the retail market increases, concerns about their safety are raised because of the reported toxicity of yohimbine (the major alkaloid of the plant). Reported side effects from yohimbe use include minor complaints such as headaches, anxiety and tension to more serious adverse events including high blood pressure, elevated heart rate, heart palpitations, and hallucinations.

People with high blood pressure and kidney disease should avoid supplements containing yohimbe as should women who are (or who could become) pregnant (due to abortion risk). Also, caution should be used with yohimbe taken in combination with certain foods containing tyramine (red wine, liver, and cheese) as well as with nasal decongestants or diet aids with ephedrine or phenylpropanolamine (which could lead to blood pressure fluctuations). Occasionally, yohimbe is combined with serotonergic supplements (such as St. John’s wort or 5-HTP) to increase their effectiveness. It is not recommended to combine yohimbe with other anti-depressant supplements or medications except under the advice and supervision of a nutritionally-oriented physician.

Value:
For nearly a century, yohimbe has been used as an aphrodisiac and sexual enhancer - although no effect on human sex drive or performance has been adequately demonstrated. Yohimbine (the drug) has been evaluated in the management of erectile disorder in a few small studies, where it appears to have a modest therapeutic benefit over placebo (especially in “psychological” erectile dysfunction). ….

http://www.ironmagazine.com/review10.html


Last edited by marinera : 10-30-2009 at .

But you have to understand, marinera, this stuff is fine for EVERYONE — just not people with liver, kidney, heart, or psychological issues. That’s their problem that they aren’t normal people!

Also, just because a substance could cause hypertension, panic attacks, seizures, and kidney failure does not make it unsafe for anyone. “Unsafe” is a nuclear bomb! And besides, if you experience any adverse effects, then that clearly proves you aren’t a normal human being, and it is therefore still true that yohimbe is safe for everyone.

***

No one is suggesting that yohimbe is some kind of awful poison, djufo. They’re suggesting that, like almost all drugs and supplements that have any desirable effects, it can also have undesirable effects, and people need to do their research before self-medicating. In an article from a few years ago, Consumer Reports argued if supplements were held to the same safety standards as drugs, yohimbe would not be on the market:

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/…/eng0405die.htm I think that’s an overreaction, from the evidence I’ve seen, but to argue that yohimbe is self-evidently harmless and that anyone who suggests otherwise (even based on their own experiences taking the supplement!) is deluded by their simplistic emotions is ludicrous and arrogant beyond belief.

Originally Posted by djufo
Yes, that is the problem for rootcap. I do not have a problem with it though. Is his opinion against mine, although he is the one trying to declare my statement as wrong and irresponsible. If anybody can provide medical studies claiming his position, please go ahead. I will gladly waste a couple minutes of my wonderful life to read that study, and as a charity for humanity, I would retract of my position if the “scientists” post the truth. :) At least I have the proof with myself, that using all those plants, can help maintain a healthy big johnson with tons of cum; and since my carbon unit is perfectly normal, then by logic, those herbs have to work for normal people. Unless they overdose.

You wouldn’t know “logic” if it bit you in your ass.

“If it is safe for me, it is safe for everyone”, what a fucking joke.


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Originally Posted by djufo
Like I said before, I do not react with “feelings”; that is what lead humans to errors and unmeasured reactions, like for example making a big deal about an herb that most likely is not gonna cause people any problem.


Don’t kid yourself, your defensive tone and your somewhat irrational need to be right regardless of any facts is entirely emotionally driven.

Originally Posted by djufo
And let’s clarify one thing: I haven’t insulted any moderator here at all.

Umm… Unfortunatelly common sense is not that common in humans. is clearly a shot at RootCap. Just because you didn’t call him by name doesn’t mean the implication escapes the rest of us.

Originally Posted by djufo
Not because I am arguing with somebody that is trying to falsely convince the public with unfounded information, means that I am offending somebody. And to be honest with you, I don’t care at all if the person on the other side is a moderator or a mesiah; I am using reason, critical thinking and common sense; logic is undeniable.


Well reasoned logic is undeniable. I wouldn’t deny that. I haven’t seen any evidence of that from you, though.

Mostly what I’ve seen is your chest-beating assertions that you’re correct and everyone that disagrees with you is wrong. You’ve offered no proof; you demanded someone else provide you with a study, and repeated variations on “I’m right and you’re wrong.”

Just because you say “I’m right and you’re wrong” doesn’t mean it’s true. And the more you say it without any sort of back-up the less true it sounds.

FYI: no one owes you a study. If you want proof for your side of the argument the burden of proof is on you: positive proof. When you say “Show me a study that proves this” that’s a straw-man argument; it asks someone to prove a negative.

It’s what we call in debate a fallacy, and it doesn’t wash.

Originally Posted by djufo
Regarding the wrong approach to a discussion thread, that’s a totally different issue in which case under your judgement is wrong, and I take it as an advise, and again, NOT because you are a moderator.


Advice. The word is advice. ‘Advise’ is a verb.

Regarding the advice I offered you: it’s free - do with it what you will. However I’ll add to it: because I’m a moderator it’s more than simply advice, it’s a reminder; a warning even. My judgment on that point is not wrong as moderators are here for the purpose of making judgments on how members interact.

If you continue to push your luck my judgment, and the judgment of the other moderators, are the judgments that count.

Originally Posted by djufo
I can see you two are talking through PM so tell him to not “insult” me, saying that I make false and irresponsible statements.


Honestly? I don’t think you see much of anything. Root and I haven’t PM’d each other in months.

Saying someone’s statement is false, while possibly disappointing, is not insulting.

In terms of the issue of yohimbe, if you were paying attention, you’d see that my opinion on the subject is closer to yours than to RootCap’s. I would say that risks of taking 100 mg of 2% yohimbe is relatively safe for most people. I would also submit that benefits of it are minor as well.

Which is why this Super Goat Weed supplement can be sold in a supermarket.

However, the side effects for some people are more than that of strong cup of coffee (which is about what yohimbe’s usually worth at the 2% strength), and therefore RootCap’s advisory is well taken and, more importantly, not in the least bit wrong.

Originally Posted by djufo
And since this thread is completely out of topic, which is irresponsible, I believe is better to take this conversation to private messages for respect to other users. Any further information regarding the original thread would be very helpfull if it is backed up by trusted information from the net, and not by simple emotions. :)


I like the way you use the word ‘simple’, it seems appropriate somehow.

However, there is value in having a discussion with a difficult person in a thread; that way others can see in such posts the clear example of what not to do in a discussion.

If I were you I’d think about dialing back the attitude djufo. The membership you save might well be your own. :leftie:


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Well, if there is value in this discussion, that is perfectly fine with me. I have some extra time. 90% of your post Mr. Happy, makes my point, so I am not going to discuss that, the real picture behind is subject to common sense and reason. Like it has been said before, and unable to deny, emotions lead humans, and that gives a different perception of situations. Even more, it has always been very interesting to me to analize how humans behave in groups. Your perception about my comment regarding common sense, well, it is your opinion and your words, I didn’t “shot” that to RootCap.

I thank Marinera for posting some information from the web, however, nobody really noticed that apples and oranges are been mixed here?? really? The information posted by Marinera is talking about doses of yohimbe and yohimbine mixed, which is not the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by djufo
………It can’t be more fool proof than that. To get the levels of yohimbine from bark extract, you need to take over 8 grams. That is clearily an overdose from any OTC yohimbe product. If you look at the list of ingredients of the poster, it contains yohimbe 2% extract 100mg. That is insignificant. Now if he tries to take 10 pills in one shot to get better effects, that is his problem….

8 grams = 8,000 milligrams.

8,000 x 2% = 160 milligrams

“Dosage:
Although there are no standard accepted dosage recommendations for yohimbe, it is known that more than 40mg/day of yohimbine can result in adverse side effects such as dizziness, headaches, loss of coordination and hallucinations. Typical daily amounts of yohimbine alkaloids found in commercial supplements (label claims) are often in the range of 10-30mg and occasionally standardized to yohimbine or total alkaloid content.”

There is a lot of more information needed for the people here, just for the safety of everyone. Yohimbe, IS NOT the same as yohimbine. So taking for example the above quote, 160mg of yohimbe 2% extract, does not mean 160mg of yohimbine, which in that case can cause side effects. 160mg of yohimbe most probably will not have the positive effects expected by yohimbine, and to make it worst, regular commercial supplements come in doses around 100mg 2% bark extract. At that dose, a cup of tea is more dangerous. That make it SAFE FOR EVERYONE. Even more, it wold be very interesting to start a poll, asking people what side effects have had from the average OTC dose of 100mg of yohimbe 2% extract……….I think I will start a poll, so maybe that way we can prove that this poor innocent sheep behind a pc screen makes “irresponsible and false statements” (yes, that was freely shot at me, but that is not “insulting a member”, which is ok, because as discused before, emotions own and drive humans, specially in groups, and I have learn to understand them) :)


Present: 8.75" BPEL, 9.25" BPSFL, 5.3" EG

Goal: 1' BPEL, 6.5" EG

Yes do a survey. Since you are repeating that yohimbine is safe for everyone (avoid writing all words in uppercase, please), logic says that if you get just one answer of the kind ‘I’m safe and I had bad side effects from using yohimbine’ then it will prove you are wrong, right?

And FYI : I’m safe and I used low doses of yohimbine and I had bad side effects like: dizziness, headaches etc.. How does it sound to you?

Oh, so since it’s real easy to confuse Yohimbe and Yohimbine, a blanket statement of “safe for everyone” is OK. Gotcha.


regards, mgus

Taped onto the dashboard of a car at a junkyard, I once found the following: "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." The car was crashed.

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Originally Posted by marinera
Yes do a survey. Since you are repeating that yohimbine is safe for everyone (avoid writing all words in uppercase, please), logic says that if you get just one answer of the kind ‘I’m safe and I had bad side effects from using yohimbine’ then it will prove you are wrong, right?

And FYI : I’m safe and I used low doses of yohimbine and I had bad side effects like: dizziness, headaches etc.. How does it sound to you?

How does it sound to me?
That you need to read more. The thread started, and my replies started, with YOHIMBE (in caps to please you) not yohimbine. Pure yohimbine alkaloid is sold here in the U.S. by prescription, with the exception of that OTC product posted by a user here and we don’t know what’s the deal with that product.

And even if you had dizziness or headache, does not make the product unsafe.

What advice is the government giving to people about the swine flu vaccine?? uh? “they advice everyone to get the vaccine”. Well, just google about the potential side effects of the so called vaccine. Then we can talk about a harmless piece of bark. This is unbelieveble. LMAO.


Present: 8.75" BPEL, 9.25" BPSFL, 5.3" EG

Goal: 1' BPEL, 6.5" EG

Originally Posted by mgus
Oh, so since it’s real easy to confuse Yohimbe and Yohimbine, a blanket statement of “safe for everyone” is OK. Gotcha.

Well, I have no idea who gave you that statement about yohimbine (and I don’t give a crap about who did) But I said that the yohimbe included in OTC products is safe for everyone (SAFE FOR EVERYONE). Yohimbine is a different story.

I see now that this thread is all about emotional reactions. Knowledge and reason, will always prevail. If everyone knew about this product, the conversation would have been smoother and interesting. And I know many are already digging the net to find info about the herb. lol. Too late.


Present: 8.75" BPEL, 9.25" BPSFL, 5.3" EG

Goal: 1' BPEL, 6.5" EG

Originally Posted by djufo
How does it sound to me?
That you need to read more. The thread started, and my replies started, with YOHIMBE (in caps to please you) not yohimbine. Pure yohimbine alkaloid is sold here in the U.S. by prescription, with the exception of that OTC product posted by a user here and we don’t know what’s the deal with that product.
……….

Commercial yohimbine is what you do call yohimbe; in fact I haven’t said ‘I used pure yohimbine’, did I?

And I’ll repeat: don’t use capital letters out of necessity.

Yohimbine (Procomil) is a psychoactive drug of the tryptamine chemical class with stimulant and aphrodisiac effects. It is an alkaloid and is found naturally in Pausinystalia yohimbe (Yohimbe), formerly known as Corynanthe yohimbe, as the herb’s primary active constituent. It is also found naturally in Rauwolfia serpentina (Indian Snakeroot), along with several other active alkaloids. Yohimbine has been used as both an over-the-counter dietary supplement in herbal extract form and prescription medicine in pure form for the treatment of sexual dysfunction.”

from wikipedia.
If you are using pills, you are using yohimbine, not yohimbe - yohimbe is the herb. The active constituent of yohimbe is yohimbine, and this is what we are interested - and speaking of.

Originally Posted by djufo
…………
And even if you had dizziness or headache, does not make the product unsafe.

What advice is the government giving to people about the swine flu vaccine?? uh? “they advice everyone to get the vaccine”. Well, just google about the potential side effects of the so called vaccine. Then we can talk about a harmless piece of bark. This is unbelieveble. LMAO.

Originally Posted by djufo
…………
And even if you had dizziness or headache, does not make the product unsafe.
..

It makes not safe for someone, so what you said : ‘It is safe for everyone’ is false. Period.

Originally Posted by djufo
…………

What advice is the government giving to people about the swine flu vaccine?? uh? “they advice everyone to get the vaccine”. Well, just google about the potential side effects of the so called vaccine. Then we can talk about a harmless piece of bark. This is unbelieveble. LMAO.

So yohimbine is safe because the government is giving to people advice to get the vaccine? That’s the scientific backup of your sentence : ‘Yohimbine is safe for everyone’?

Yohimbine and yohimbe bark can increase heart rate and raise blood pressure. People who have high blood pressure; heart, kidney or liver disease; and anxiety or nervous disorders should not take yohimbe or yohimbine. Those who drink alcohol or take antidepressants, antipsychotic drugs, methadone, certain nausea medicines, or opioid pain medicines (such as morphine) should not use yohimbe or yohimbine. Other potential interactions between yohimbe and other drugs and herbs should be considered. Some of these combinations may be dangerous. Always tell your doctor and pharmacist about any herbs you are taking. Side effects of yohimbe bark or yohimbine include difficulty breathing, chest pain, palpitations, anxiety, queasiness, sleeplessness, and vomiting. Normal doses of yohimbine can cause a rise in blood pressure. Large doses of yohimbine (40 milligrams per day or more) can cause a drop in blood pressure and have been blamed for heart attacks and even deaths. Yohimbine can make heart disease or blood pressure problems worse. Less common side effects that do not usually require medical attention include dizziness, headache, flushing, nausea, nervousness, sweating, and tremors.

People with emotional or psychiatric problems may have worsening of post-traumatic stress disorder, sleeplessness, and anxiety. New onset of panic attacks or manic episodes have been reported. Yohimbine has been linked to psychotic episodes.

Yohimbine can also act as a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI), a type of powerful antidepressant. Foods that contain tyramine, such as beer, red wine, liver, aged or smoked meats, and aged cheese can raise blood pressure to dangerous levels if you eat them while taking yohimbine.

Yohimbine or yohimbe bark should not be used by children, elderly people, or women who are pregnant or breast-feeding. Yohimbe bark is on the Commission E (Germany's regulatory agency for herbs) list of unapproved herbs. This means that it is not recommended for use because it has not been proven to be safe or effective. …

http://www.cancer.org/docroot/ETO/c…_3X_Yohimbe.asp

Originally Posted by marinera
Commercial yohimbine is what you do call yohimbe; in fact I haven’t said ‘I used pure yohimbine’, did I?

And I’ll repeat: don’t use capital letters out of necessity.

Yohimbine (Procomil) is a psychoactive drug of the tryptamine chemical class with stimulant and aphrodisiac effects. It is an alkaloid and is found naturally in Pausinystalia yohimbe (Yohimbe), formerly known as Corynanthe yohimbe, as the herb’s primary active constituent. It is also found naturally in Rauwolfia serpentina (Indian Snakeroot), along with several other active alkaloids. Yohimbine has been used as both an over-the-counter dietary supplement in herbal extract form and prescription medicine in pure form for the treatment of sexual dysfunction.”

from wikipedia.
If you are using pills, you are using yohimbine, not yohimbe - yohimbe is the herb. The active constituent of yohimbe is yohimbine, and this is what we are interested - and speaking of.

It makes not safe for someone, so what you said : ‘It is safe for everyone’ is false. Period.
So yohimbine is safe because the government is giving to people advice to get the vaccine? That’s the scientific backup of your sentence : ‘Yohimbine is safe for everyone’?

Yohimbine is an alkaloid found in yohimbe between other alkaloids. Here in the U.S. is sold OTC as yohimbe, because is the extract of the whole herb; but the amount of actual yohimbine found in an average of 100mg 2% bark extract is less than half the dose prescribed in pure form.

And no, dizziness and headache does not make the herb unsafe. My statement is correct. Unsafe would be if the herb for example caused liver toxicity, high blood pressure, vision problems, hormonal imbalances, etc…

I don’t know about yohimbe pills…maybe the prescription form comes in pills, but the OTC products that I’ve tried come in caps, and that contains yohimbe bark, not pure yohimbine.

And yes, you said you’ve tried yohimbine. I even quoted you.


Present: 8.75" BPEL, 9.25" BPSFL, 5.3" EG

Goal: 1' BPEL, 6.5" EG

Marinera, you emotionally deranged idiot, I’ll repeat myself one more time: children, elderly people, pregnant women, people with high blood pressure, people with heart, kidney, or liver disease, people with anxiety or depression, people taking medications, you, etc. are not PEOPLE. And stop being such a pussy about your breathing difficulties, vomiting, death, yada yada yada, I don’t want to hear it. Logic prevails! :buttrock:

Originally Posted by djufo
And no, dizziness and headache does not make the herb unsafe. My statement is correct. Unsafe would be if the herb for example caused liver toxicity, high blood pressure, vision problems, hormonal imbalances, etc…

Originally Posted by American Cancer Society
Yohimbine and yohimbe bark can increase heart rate and raise blood pressure.

:-k

Originally Posted by marinera
Yohimbine and yohimbe bark can increase heart rate and raise blood pressure. People who have high blood pressure; heart, kidney or liver disease; and anxiety or nervous disorders should not take yohimbe or yohimbine. Those who drink alcohol or take antidepressants, antipsychotic drugs, methadone, certain nausea medicines, or opioid pain medicines (such as morphine) should not use yohimbe or yohimbine. Other potential interactions between yohimbe and other drugs and herbs should be considered. Some of these combinations may be dangerous. Always tell your doctor and pharmacist about any herbs you are taking. Side effects of yohimbe bark or yohimbine include difficulty breathing, chest pain, palpitations, anxiety, queasiness, sleeplessness, and vomiting. Normal doses of yohimbine can cause a rise in blood pressure. Large doses of yohimbine (40 milligrams per day or more) can cause a drop in blood pressure and have been blamed for heart attacks and even deaths. Yohimbine can make heart disease or blood pressure problems worse. Less common side effects that do not usually require medical attention include dizziness, headache, flushing, nausea, nervousness, sweating, and tremors.

People with emotional or psychiatric problems may have worsening of post-traumatic stress disorder, sleeplessness, and anxiety. New onset of panic attacks or manic episodes have been reported. Yohimbine has been linked to psychotic episodes.

Yohimbine can also act as a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI), a type of powerful antidepressant. Foods that contain tyramine, such as beer, red wine, liver, aged or smoked meats, and aged cheese can raise blood pressure to dangerous levels if you eat them while taking yohimbine.

Yohimbine or yohimbe bark should not be used by children, elderly people, or women who are pregnant or breast-feeding. Yohimbe bark is on the Commission E (Germany's regulatory agency for herbs) list of unapproved herbs. This means that it is not recommended for use because it has not been proven to be safe or effective. …

http://www.cancer.org/docroot/ETO/c…_3X_Yohimbe.asp

At what dose you can have those side effects? That paragraph only mention 40 milligrams of yohimbine per day or more as dangerous. Let’s say that half of that gives above mentioned side effects. Do you know how much bark extract you need to get 20mg of pure yohimbine? you need to take like 8 grams of herb extract. And as proof of our safety, you forgot to cut and paste this from the same website:

“Yohimbe bark has been used as an aphrodisiac for many years. It has been declared an unsafe herb in Germany because of such complications as increased heart rate and blood pressure and even kidney failure. In the United States, supplements that are labeled as containing yohimbe bark often contain very little of it.”——-> Like the supplement mentioned in this thread, yohimbe bark extract 2% 100mg. Insignificant.

“Extracts and supplements labeled as yohimbine that are sold in health food stores and over the Internet contain varying amounts of yohimbe and other ingredients. FDA researchers analyzed a number of commercial yohimbe bark products available over the counter. They found that the supplements contained less of the amount of yohimbine that would be found in actual yohimbe bark and also contained substances that do not occur in yohimbe bark.

The prescription form of yohimbine is strictly regulated by the FDA. It is approved only for the treatment of impotence and is available in tablets and capsules. The standard dosage is 5.4 milligrams taken 3 times a day for no longer than 10 weeks.”


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