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Clinical Depression vs. Supplements

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Clinical Depression vs. Supplements

Recent tragedy. Rock bottom. It has been awhile. I can’t seem to pull out. I don’t want to go into the details. It’s bad, life and death stuff. What might I take? I know the basics: Saint Johns wort, Valerian etc. I don’t want to visit a shrink if I don’t have to. It’s complicated.

I know this may not be what you want to hear, but maybe a “shrink” is the answer dude?

Oh and if it’s not just feeling bad for no reason, like you had a traumatic event, or you lost a loved one, you should try to find things to keep your mind active and off those subjects. Good luck. I have been there man.


Did you know America ranks the lowest in education but the highest in drug use? It's nice to be number one, but we can fix that. All we need to do is start the war on education. If it's anywhere near as successful as our war on drugs, in no time we'll all be hooked on phonics

- Leighann Lord

I lost a loved one a few months back and an immediate family member has been talking about suicide. It runs in my family. I’m on edge. There is more. I am not sure how I have made it this far. I have spent the last couple of weeks just staring at my computer at work as I try to hold back tears.

Workout, play games, read, just get your mind off the lost loved one. Time heals.

It’s seems to me you are “going through some shit” Which is different than depression, but bad none the less. You can’t force that person to not commit suicide, but you can offer guidance and try to get them to a shrink.


Did you know America ranks the lowest in education but the highest in drug use? It's nice to be number one, but we can fix that. All we need to do is start the war on education. If it's anywhere near as successful as our war on drugs, in no time we'll all be hooked on phonics

- Leighann Lord

Run Forrest run!

Exercise has had a far greater effect than any supplement on attitudes and mood of people I have known. It really works. If it doesn’t, it is probably time for pharmaceuticals or just a counselor you can talk to.
St. Johns Wort is so subtle, I think it is OK for for a guy who already has his head on straight but wants to slightly lower stress. It won’t turn depression into happiness, not by a long shot.


Horny Bastard

Maybe something to take the edge off might help you to function for the time being.
But I’m not sure it’s the complete answer.

Like others have said or implied, distract your thoughts.

You can’t be responsible for another’s actions or thoughts,
But you can be there to give empathy, console, and advise.

You may want to open up a bit to us about what’s going on.
You should know by now there’s some good people and support around here.
If for no other reason, a problem shared is a problem cut in half.


I was gonna say, RootCap's hot. - kitten

I haven’t been through anything nearly as intense as what it sounds like you’re going through, but I have benefitted from seeing a good therapist. It’s not so much what happens during the sessions, it’s more about how it gives you some sort of frame in which to organize everything that you’re feeling.

Like, I haven’t seen my therapist since last fall, but I spend the week before my appointment thinking about the session, and how I’ll answer the simple questions he always starts with like “so, what’s going on with you?” What the fuck is going on with me? A lot. Just thinking about the upcoming therapy session, I start to organize all the shit that’s flying around. I anticipate how he might call bullshit, and question whether some of my feelings are based on reality or fallacy, and what he’d tell me I can do to address my shit and feel better faster. Sometimes it’s just a matter of accepting that I’m going to be disorganized and confused and depressed for a while, but at least then I’ve decided something. And, I know from experience that things will get better, or at least I will find or develop the tools I need to handle things better.

I see a guy here who is a native American with all sorts of formal psych training, but he’s also just woo woo enough to be unconventional and pretty down to earth. He’s not too judgemental of all the scandalous stuff I do, and he can suggest things I need to work on without using a cookie cutter approach that might ignore my life and values.

So, I’d suggest talking to a few people you trust and finding someone who they trust.

As for supplements, if you want to avoid prescribed pharmaceuticals, you might look into SAM-E (also link). I’ve been taking it for about three months now and my mood is brighter with fewer low spots. The effect is similar to SSRIs in that it increases seratonin levels. For a few minutes a day, I get that same sort of giddy feeling I felt on Wellbutrin and Celexa, but I don’t have that chemical buzz. So far, I’m only taking 400 mgs every morning on an empty stomach. It’s a bit expensive — usually about .75 a pill. I get the Source Natural blister packs from my local pusher.


Last edited by Ike : 08-17-2006 at .

I second the SAM-E. I believe its a prescription drug in Europe. Its great for the liver too. Just make sure that you buy the tabs that come in blister packs. The bottled one will degrade.

Tragedies happen to thousands of people everyday, man. If you’ve hit rock bottom the only way you can go now is up. Trust me, Ive been there. It gets better. And getting better isn’t hard, BELIEVING YOU CAN GET BETTER is the hard part. Happiness is all in your head. It is simply a choice. You can feel happy or you can feel sad. There are always 2 ways to look at things. Positively and negatively. Do this: For the next 3 weeks (it takes 21 days to change a habit) reframe everything into a positive. My cousin talked about committing suicide once. Do you know what i told him? “Good, then i don’t have to buy birthday or Christmas gifts.” Of course, it was a joke and he laughed. I told him why I said that and then told him to start thinking positive. Ive read your posts and you are a smart guy. Please try this out.

Take care.

Summary
A natural metabolite of the amino acid methionine, SAMe plays a key role in over 40 chemical reactions in the body to ensure its optimal functioning. While best known for its potential antidepressant activity, it may also help relieve joint pain, fibromyalgia, liver conditions, migraines, and even possesses some anti-aging benefits worth talking about.

Other names for SAMe
s-adenosyl-L-methionine, ademethionine, SAME-E, S-adenosylmethionine

Where to find SAMe
SAMe can be created in the liver by breaking down the amino acid methionine. Supplement forms are grown in yeast.

Note SAMe is not abundant in any food sources, but methionine is found in most protein-containing foods. Along with methionine, though, the body needs adequate amounts of folic acid and Vitamin B12 to manufacture SAMe.


PERFORMANCE BENEFITS



Why athletes use SAMe
Known for decreasing pain and inflammation in joints and muscles, SAMe has also been shown to help even severe joint damage heal. As an antidepressant, SAMe may also improve mood, combating depression.

Ways that SAMe can enhance Muscle Gain & Recovery:

Support joint health by decreasing pain, reducing inflammation, and increasing circulation
Ways that SAMe can enhance Mental Functioning:

Regulate mood and relieve depression by raising levels of specific brain chemicals
Ways that SAMe can enhance Longevity:

Fight free radicals as a necessary component of glutathione production


HEALTH BENEFITS



Signs of SAMe deficiency
Deficiency of SAMe has been linked to:

Cirrhosis
Cardiovascular disease
Alzheimer’s disease
Depression
Potential uses for SAMe
Research indicates that SAMe may also be useful in the treatment of:

Bone and joint problems
Osteoarthritis
Fibromyalgia
Depression
Infertility
Liver disorders
Migraine headaches


DISCUSSION

Brain chemistry
SAMe is a combination of the amino acid methionine and adenosyl-triphosphate and works with Vitamin B12, folic acid, and methionine as a methyl donor to create reactions in the body necessary for detoxification and the manufacture of brain chemicals, such as dopamine.

Because SAMe may raise levels and improve receptor binding of the brain chemicals dopamine, serotonin, and acetylcholine, it appears to have powerful effects on mood regulation, showing a reduction in symptoms of depression in up to 70% of those who have tried it, often within a week of beginning supplementation.

Joint health
Many studies have shown that SAMe has positive effects when fighting pain, especially joint pain. In fact, some experts compare its effects to products such as ibuprofen and naproxen. It is also needed for the production of cartilage components necessary for strong, healthy connective tissue, appearing to help these fragile tissues heal properly.

In a study done in Germany, people suffering from osteoarthritis of the knee, hip, and spine used 600 mg of SAMe daily. By the second week of the study, researchers noted marked relief of joint pain, specifically in the morning.

In a very recent report issued by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality, it was concluded that SAMe is effective for relieving joint comfort.

Optimal health/anti-aging
SAMe has been used in Europe for years to fight the symptoms of fibromyalgia — showing a reduction in pain, fatigue, stiffness, and depression often associated with this condition.

SAMe is also needed to produce sulfur compounds in our bodies, such as glutathione, a very powerful antioxidant known for fighting free radicals and encouraging optimal health.

Researchers believe that because SAMe may improve bile flow and fight free radicals in the liver, it may help heal liver damage, such as that caused by cholestasis, Gilber’s syndrome, and cirrhosis. And while research is still preliminary, it has been shown to help increase sperm activity in infertile men and may also help relieve migraine headaches.

In conclusion
For the relief of joint and muscle pain, mood enhancement, and also for aiding antioxidant activity, SAMe has shown many potential benefits. Since SAMe is a fairly new nutrient to reach the American public, research is still in progress. Yet its definitive positive results in producing optimal health conditions so far have helped SAMe quickly make a name for itself as a life-enhancing supplement as well.


NOTES ON USAGE



Amount
Between 400 and 1,600 mg per day has been found beneficial depending on symptoms:

For depression, 1,600 mg per day.
For joint pain, 800 to 1,200 mg per day.
For fibromyalgia or migraines, 800 mg per day.
For liver disorders, 1,200 mg per day.
Timing
SAMe is recommended in divided doses on an empty stomach with plenty of water (at least a full 8-oz glass).

Note
The longer SAMe is used, the greater the apparent effects. It usually imparts noticeable, positive effects after about four to six weeks of consistent use.

Synergists of SAMe
SAMe works with Vitamin B12, folic acid, and methionine for detoxification and the manufacture of brain chemicals, such as dopamine.

Safety of SAMe
Some individuals experience occasional stomach upset when supplementing with SAMe. If so, discontinue use for a short while, about a week, then resume use.

SAMe is not recommended for people with bipolar disorder because of its potential to stimulate mood changes.

Check with a nutritionally orientated practitioner if you are on antidepressants/tricyclics before supplementing with SAMe.

Toxicity of SAMe
No known toxicity.

double post.

Thank you everyone, thank you very much.

gameofinches,

This person did go on an antidepressant last week. Some new fast acting thing. That was the silver lining. I am still freaked out though because I have seen the path to suicide and I think this person was on it. I think that we are like computers. If too many bad things happen we incorporate them into our world view. One starts thinking that they are different and are not equipped to function in this world. They logically work it all out in their head. Then, the solution is obvious. They begin to compartmentalize the optimistic part of themselves. The part that wants to live. They develop harsh responses to that little voice. They call it foolishness, a lack of full acceptance of the truth. The process can take awhile and it is not always easily detected by loved ones because the sufferer stays quiet. They can appear mostly normal until the end. It’s not the only path to suicide but it is one of them. I don’t know why I am writing all of this. Sorry. Yes, this person is seeing a therapist.

mravg,

I was doing it. I was in the gym but I have become so tired. I was just going through the motions. It seems that I lost the ability to push myself to the point where I got any benefit from the exercise. I don’t know how to describe it. It is like a giant blanket of meat has been draped over me. It is heavy and the smell inside is foul. I can’t hardly breathe. I can see through some of the thin parts but everything is distorted and tinted red. It is like I am trying to function, to work out while walking around with the big heavy, bloody, rotting, stinking meat blanket draped over me.

iamaru,

I love the badgers and thank you for your PM. I will keep the chin up.

RootCap,

There are good people here and you are one of them.. Better people here than any other place I know of. It is complicated. There are legal proceeding concerning one of the key causes of the depression. I know that the odds of my identity being discovered by the opposing party are slim but it still makes me nervous.

Ike,

I will be purchasing some SAM-E tonight.

I need a therapist like that. I have been to my share of shrinks and it has never worked well for me. I grew up with a lot of friends whose parents were shrinks (the children of shrinks are all fucked up, seemingly without exception). I know how how they are trained to think and I just feel silly as they ask the predictable sequence of questions. I resist the urge to burst out with, “shut the fuck up already, I can see where you are headed. No, I am not manic depressive or what ever road they are headed down.” If I find myself living up there, I might ask you for his name.

Thanks again, everyone.

Originally Posted by viroid
I second the SAM-E. I believe its a prescription drug in Europe. Its great for the liver too. Just make sure that you buy the tabs that come in blister packs. The bottled one will degrade.

Tragedies happen to thousands of people everyday, man. If you’ve hit rock bottom the only way you can go now is up. Trust me, Ive been there. It gets better. And getting better isn’t hard, BELIEVING YOU CAN GET BETTER is the hard part. Happiness is all in your head. It is simply a choice. You can feel happy or you can feel sad. There are always 2 ways to look at things. Positively and negatively. Do this: For the next 3 weeks (it takes 21 days to change a habit) reframe everything into a positive. My cousin talked about committing suicide once. Do you know what i told him? “Good, then i don’t have to buy birthday or Christmas gifts.” Of course, it was a joke and he laughed. I told him why I said that and then told him to start thinking positive. Ive read your posts and you are a smart guy. Please try this out.

Take care.

You made me laugh. Yes, I know that it is all neuro chemistry. It is just that I have gotten to the point where my old tricks for controlling it, are not working. The gift bit is good. I won’t lie, I am going to steal it.

I will pick up some SAM-E tonight.

viroid,
Good overview on the SAM-E but could you post a link? We are anal about that stuff here.

Originally Posted by penismith
It is like a giant blanket of meat has been draped over me. It is heavy and the smell inside is foul. I can’t hardly breathe. I can see through some of the thin parts but everything is distorted and tinted red. It is like I am trying to function, to work out while walking around with the big heavy, bloody, rotting, stinking meat blanket draped over me.

Classic severe clinical depression so bad you are experiencing near psychosis. Been there done that. Now admittedly it is only online but I do feel that I know you well enough to say that you probably can get away without happy pills. It will seriously suck for a bit but on the positive side you will learn lessons and acquire skills that others do not have access to.

Defiantly look into the SAM-E and watch out for things like MSG, lack of B vitamins and crap in your diet that can exacerbate the situation.


Running a Massive Co-Front.

penismith,
i can sympathise with your situation as I’ve been there before. i didn’t get any type of enlightenment from shrinks. i can relate to your friend as i’m the kind who usually has already logically thought out all the angles, reasons, and solutions to my problems. i rarely leave a stone unturned in my overthinking things so shrinks could never offer me any new insight i hadn’t already considered, but i do think they help others who think differently than me. i have a family member and some friends who’ve really benefitted from shrinks. i think everyone going through a tough time should give it a shot to see if it works for them. we all respond differently.

i’ve tried a couple of anti-depressants previously (serzone - which was horrible and really fucked up my outlook, personality, and energy-level for some reason, and prozac - which worked quite well). i haven’t taken it in some time, but during that period i found prozac helped a great deal - much more than st. john’s wort did. st. john’s wort sort of made me feel jittery or something - can’t explain it, though i didn’t take st. john’s for very long, so maybe it would have improved if i gave it more time.

there were no side-effects to prozac. my overall feeling of happiness was elevated, i was still myself, but a little less absorbed in the problems i was experiencing. instead of suffering say 75% of the time, i found myself suffering 35% of the time. this allowed me to leave traumatic things behind, get more sleep at night and basically cope better in the present despite the trauma and unhappiness i had been suffering through.

i know some here are very much against drugging up with anti-depressants, but the benefits can be surprisingly good. if nothing else works and you’re feeling suicidal then i’d definitely suggest giving prozac a shot.

hope this helps.

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