Thunder's Place

The big penis and mens' sexual health source, increasing penis size around the world.

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12

Apologies that it’s taken so long for me to post but it’s taken me time to read all of the above threads.

Originally Posted by d_sut
Totaly unrelated question, how do I change font and colour, and put links to other pages in my posts. Someone PM me don’t wanna hijack.

Just under the ‘Submit Reply’ button (under the text field) there’s a “Posting Rules” box. Check out the links in that box for instructions on formatting etc.

Originally Posted by Mr. Fantastic
Originally Posted by Mad Hatter
Mr. Fantastic:If you don’t mind the off-topic question, how long have you been doing 500 minute long hanging sessions? All year since you started? Or did you just recently move up to that?


I don’t record total time spent hanging (maybe you have me confused with another member),

MH— my apologies— I didn’t realise you’d got the ‘500 minute’ figure from my personal profile. The truth of the matter is that provided you have a light enough weight you can hang from dusk ‘till dawn. The trick is to find a weight that’s right for you for the time available (and that’s best done through trial and error)

Originally Posted by Mad Hatter
If it’s the CC’s that are pushing the limits of the tunica’s elasticity, then elongating the tunica would theoretically give you the quick gains while doing more CC exercises at this stage would probably only serve for circumference/girth work. Continued CC exercise at this point may bulk so much spongy material around the tunica that it becomes progressively harder and harder to isolate the tunica inside of all the sponge for length work. This would help to explain why way too much girth labor over tunica work ultimately inhibits length gains.

The CCs are contained within the tunica. With clamping, the tunica is forced to expand by the expanding CCs but the CCs are always contained within the Tunica. In terms of restriction of growth it’s the collagen that seems to be the real problem.

Originally Posted by Mad Hatter
In martial arts this same scenario happens frequently, where the student in question has been in the gym bulking up muscle mass but has largely ignored their stretches and dexterity work. Essentially, they’re at a loss in matches because their muscles have bulked around their ligaments so much they can’t stretch as effectively as their opponent and they’re now stuck being marginalized as having to rely on up-close brute force alone. Speed, reach ability, dexterity, all of which rely on elasticity, are irrevocably their weak points until they lose the excessive muscle mass.

The ways in which (and for what purpose) the tissues of the body combine, differ in the different structures of the body. Therefore there’s a limit to the extent to which the technical knowledge of body-building and other physical disciplines is applicable to PE, basically because they deal with different structures which themselves differ in function/purpose. e.g. the penis doesn’t have muscles— you can’t curl weights with it to build it, but it does have a tunica as do all of the muscles of the body…

…you have to stretch the tunicas surrounding the muscles to allow the muscles they contain to grow at the rate they can be built through pumping iron, but with PE we’re approaching the problem from the other end, i.e. were attacking the tunica which exercises the CCs at the same time (at least that’s how I see it)

We can blast through the tunica with clamping but that’s such an intense exercise that it creates the wrong type of collagen— just what we don't want for length gains (more below)

When it comes to PE and other physical disciplines, most of the cross-compatible data deals with the common tissues and, for example, how they react to strain & respond to nutrition.

Originally Posted by Mad Hatter
Back on topic, when you consider that the tunica and the CC chambers are made of different materials it follows that they will have different levels of toughness; each would have a different exercise need to fulfill. And considering different PE exercises put more or less emphasis on one or the other at a time, I suppose that’s how I got the “potato sack race” idea in my head. It could be that hanging down low puts proportionally more stress on the CC’s than the tunica, and hanging inverted V stretches puts proportionally more stress on the tunica than the CC’s. But who knows really.

Originally Posted by Mad Hatter
…the elasticity of the tunica is the limiting factor of how much the CC chambers can expand when erect. The more tunica, the more space for the CC chambers to fill, assuming the CC chambers are capable of expanding enough (have been exercised enough) to fill around the tunica to the maximum capacity.

When you think about it, if the tunica is capable of flexing more distance than the CC chambers are capable of filling while erect (from extensive tunica stretching), then you’re already missing some erect length and girth potential and working on Uli’s and jelqs would logically be the right path to take to even the gains.

It seems to me that since the tunica is to tough, anything that’s going to cause micro-tears to the tunica should, presumably, rip the shit out out of the CC’s— so is simultaneous girth-work really necessary? Surely the CCs are going to be worked along with the tunica. ModestoMan touches on this in the Why Gains Slow thread and - depending on your point of view - either seems to answer his own question or questions his own answer:

Originally Posted by ModestoMan
Some hangers have noted that, as they grow, gains in their BPEL often lag behind gains in FBPSEL. I’ve often wondered whether this delay is caused by the internal structures needing to “catch up” with the tunica’s growth.

He also states:

Originally Posted by ModestoMan
At some point, the internal tissues probably do have to grow. I agree with Shiver that they probably grow along with the tunica, and are stretched at the same time.

I recently saw a drawing of the inside layer of the tunica, as it blended into the tissues within a CC. It was not an abrupt transition, as a simple membrane would be. Instead, the tunica actually had projections extending radially into to body of the CC to form a network of small pockets (I think they’re called “trabeculae”). The walls of the pockets are made of the same stuff as the inside layer of the tunica, and are coextensive with it.

This means that stretching the tunica really does stretch some of the internal structure of the CCs, as they really are structurally integrated with one another.

Even if the tunica were to “get ahead” of the internal structures of the CCs, normal erections would probably (guessing) provide enough pressure to induce the structures to fill the available space. I don’t believe that anything inside the CCs provides anywhere near the resistance to expansion that the tunica itself provides.

I personally think that anything that’s going to cause micro-tears in the tunica is definitely going to affect the CCs because the CCs and tunica are inter-meshed.

As for girth-work to fill out the gaps— it might be worthwhile to do a little girth-work after length-work just to plump things up in an effort to keep the micro-tears wide, in the same way that one should use an ADS to keep everything healing in a lengthened state. But I don’t think that clamping is the way to go. If anything, jelqing is the way forward.

The Why Gains Slow thread details two studies that mirror the clamping technique and while they both state that clamping will create growth the most detailed and closest to what we do in PE states that what’s created is the tough type of collagen that we don’t want. In other words— clamping will toughen or ‘condition’ the penis in a way that can inhibit length-gains.

That’s why it’s best to get the length you want before you begin intensive girth work…continued clamping toughens the penis but is intense enough to keep breaking through those toughened fibres.

If you want to work on girth at the same time as length Jelq, don’t clamp. Jelqing - if done in a particular way - will also help length and it’s also been suggested that it ‘confuses’ the collagen to make gains that don’t toughen the tissues as much.

Personally I’m not going to be doing any girth-work until I’ve got the length I want.


Previously known as Mr. Fantastic

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Size Myths in the Porn Industry


Last edited by Mr. Fantastic : 01-22-2006 at .

Originally Posted by drilla9
Tragically, the lure of the clamp will prove too much and you will become consumed in a world of girth..mark my words..:nodding:

Drilla is very very correct in this saying. Length what length. I wanna clamp.


If you stretch it, it will grow. If you clamp it, she will know.

Quote
Bloody hell, maybe it’s time to stop thinking about this fickle witchcraft of PE and just do whatever you feel like when you’ve got the time.

Yes it is a little bewitching, isn’t it. Why do you think I call it The Craft? It is easy to fall into a Clamping habit. The jury is still out on whether or not clamping hinders length gains, but I think it did in my case. Of course I pretty much set out for girth from the start.

Mr. F. You mention the Penemaster rubbing you just below the glands. Isn’t that one of those noose style extenders. Check with MB on the head for his extender. I think it fits all the other extenders and clamps comfortably on the sides. This might help you clamp your Penemaster around the scar tissue.


2003: 6X5 2010: 7X7

No Nukes

Originally Posted by Big Girtha
Yes it is a little bewitching, isn’t it. Why do you think I call it The Craft?

Bewitching’s the right word— there’s so much surrounding PE that sounds like superstition that I’m wondering if I shouldn’t be waving a fresh-cut willow-branch over my wang for seven days after every equinox.

Originally Posted by Big Girtha
Mr. F. You mention the Penemaster rubbing you just below the glands. Isn’t that one of those noose style extenders.

Yes it is, and what’s worse is I’m still using the old-style cloth comfort-band.

Originally Posted by Big Girtha
Check with MB on the head for his extender. I think it fits all the other extenders and clamps comfortably on the sides. This might help you clamp your Penemaster around the scar tissue.

B.G. thanks— Instead of just the head I was thinking about buying the whole unit as a substitute for both my PM and hanger (I’m hanging relatively low weights and still getting gains), but MB’s ‘basic-ring’ has a gap for turkey-neck which is really the only thing stopping me from buying one (One of the things I like about the PM is that it combats turkey-neck if warn over time within the time-frame that you’re hanging (provided you bind your balls whilst hanging to stop your skin being pulled forward)).

But I do need an ADS so I probably will end up buying just the head (although maybe I could fill that gap with epoxy)

Right now I’m not exactly sure what to do. It’s something I’ve been thinking about, because my P.E. equipment is more-or-less warn-out and largely unsuitable for my newly-researched goals)

I need to make a donation to Thundersplace also, so I’m not really sure exactly what to do.

Also— I’ve figured out a practical and relatively-simple way to double the Penimaster’s tractive force with just the minimum of machining of an existing part, but the selfish part of me is really reluctant to give up the information (I don’t have the equipment to machine the parts and I feel like I’m going to be the only guy without one (the ‘re-design’ would require MB’s extender-head because the design of the Penimaster strap doesn’t account for the extra force, and so would be way too tough on the skin at higher forces.))…

…Having said that, it’d probably be a lot easier and a lot less expensive just to use epoxy to fill the gap in MB’s basic-ring (which I think I’ll probably end up doing)

More Thoughts on Simultaneous Length & Girth Work

Originally Posted by Big Girtha
It is easy to fall into a Clamping habit. The jury is still out on whether or not clamping hinders length gains, but I think it did in my case. Of course I pretty much set out for girth from the start.

For me, clamping at this point would definitely be a bad habit, because I’m sure it’ll make my length-gains more difficult.

From reading the posts of the guys who base their routines on the data that support the ‘regular deconditioning-break strategy’ I’m pretty convinced that collagen is a major factor in the whole gains-rate equation— these guys’ results seem to bare this out.

Also, I’ve done little-to-no girth-work and virtually no clamping (seven sets tops, just to see what it was like) and my length-gain gain-rate is still strong after fourteen months of PE (and the first few months I used nothing but a Penimaster, which is designed in such a way that it “flies under the radar” when it comes to Type III Collagen secretion.)

The longest break I’ve taken since starting PE was one month (following an operation on my circ-scar). I don’t even jelq— all the jelqing I’ve done has been Jelq-squeezes pulled towards the floor at no more than 50% erect.

Also— I want to manage my girth-increase closely, so I’m figuring on getting a clear idea of my length-gain gain-rate before adding any girth-work into the equation.

There’s also the potential for length-gains from girth-work to consider so it’s kind of a two-way street.

Although there’s ‘probably’ only a small disparity, the two are definitely not mutually-exclusive. E.g. aristocane did no length-work and gained a clear inch in both mid-shaft girth and length from nothing but clamping, a feat which in itself has some pretty crucial implications as far as girth-work and length-gains are concerned.

Take Peter Dick for example (I hope you don’t mind P.D.). Peter Dick says he’s been doing twice as much girth-work as he’s been doing length-work and that it’s not affected his gains.

Peter Dick started at ‘BPEL:7.50”’ and after eight months of PE is now at ‘BPEL:8.25”’

That’s a length increase of 0.75” over an eight-month period in which he’s gained 1.25” of erect girth.

Taking aristocane’s gains into account and considering Peter Dick should have made newbie gains in this period, then if Peter Dick and aristocane are both average then shouldn’t Peter Dick have gained more length?

I’ve been PEing for fourteen months and I hit 7.5”BPEL today which makes my total length gains approximately 1.5” (my stats as recorded at Thunder’s aren’t totally accurate (I made fast newbie gains and didn’t measure properly to begin with (I know I started at 6”BPEL because before PE I measured 6” using the layman’s measuring technique, which adds 1” to my BPEL length)))

I used a Penimaster for the first eight and a half months before starting hanging. I hung for about two months before my Bib-hanger broke and I went back to using just the Penimaster. I’ve only just started hanging again recently because I found a way to attach my Bib-hanger using a c-clamp.

I’m still making strong length-gains.

Obviously there are so many variables to be accounted for (in terms of what works for who etc.) that no clear conclusion can really be drawn, but I’d say that the notion that clamping can slow length-gains is definitely worth considering.

My hypothesis is that clamping will slow length-gains. Something I might get some insight into when I dial-in the clamping. If it totally stymies my length-gains (i.e. if they drop-off or grind-to-a-halt when I add in the clamping) I’ll turn to the ‘regular-decon-break’ method (and try to hit my girth and length goals without overshooting one or the other)

Ultimately I’m not sure that any of us can say for certain whether particular girth-exercises are going to hinder or help length-gains, but I offer my experience (above) so that we might have a basis from which to view future findings. If there’s a similar thread at around the time I start the girth-work I’ll be sure to post my results.


Previously known as Mr. Fantastic

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Size Myths in the Porn Industry


Last edited by Mr. Fantastic : 01-23-2006 at .

Originally Posted by Mr. Fantastic
Take Peter Dick for example (I hope you don’t mind P.D.). Peter Dick says he’s been doing twice as much girth-work as he’s been doing length-work and that it’s not affected his gains.

Peter Dick started at ‘BPEL:7.50”’ and after eight months of PE is now at ‘BPEL:8.25”’

That’s a length increase of 0.75” over an eight-month period in which he’s gained 1.25” of erect girth.

Taking aristocane’s gains into account and considering Peter Dick should have made newbie gains in this period, then if Peter Dick and aristocane are both average then shouldn’t Peter Dick have gained more length?

I would have gained more length if I didn’t stop doing length work completely about 3 months ago.
I feel that I’m on the border on what’s practical when it comes to length right now. I do not want to be any longer than 8.5”.


:buttrock: The Peter Dick method :buttrock:

Then, BPEL:7.500"x5.500"

Now, BPEL:8.375"X6.750"

Originally Posted by Peter Dick
I would have gained more length if I didn’t stop doing length work completely about 3 months ago.
I feel that I’m on the border on what’s practical when it comes to length right now. I do not want to be any longer than 8.5”.

PD— that seems to make sense (I checked the ideal size thread for your length goal but didn’t find it (I probably didn’t look hard enough))

I’d love to hear more people’s opinions on this subject— maybe I should summerise the contents of the thread and start a new thread with a different title.


Previously known as Mr. Fantastic

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Size Myths in the Porn Industry

MF:

Actually it is the notch in the base ring of the AE that prevents turkeyneck. Once the AE is on all you have to do is take your fingers and pull all that scrotal skin forward through the base ring so there is no pressure on it. But if you’ve already got the Penimaster probably all you need is the head. I’m not familiar enough with the PM to say. I’ve just heard horror stories about the noose/strap head being a dick killer. I’ve almost replaced hanging with extending until a better hanger comes along. I’m curious, in what way did your Bib break, because I can’t use mine anymore either. it won’t stay closed.


2003: 6X5 2010: 7X7

No Nukes

Originally Posted by Big Girtha
Actually it is the notch in the base ring of the AE that prevents turkeyneck. Once the AE is on all you have to do is take your fingers and pull all that scrotal skin forward through the base ring so there is no pressure on it.

Are you sure that works? I’ve always tried to hold the scrotal-skin in place so that I can stretch the underside shaft-skin and not have the scrotal-skin pull forward to make the ‘scrotal-penile-webbing’.

Originally Posted by Big Girtha
But if you’ve already got the Penimaster probably all you need is the head. I’m not familiar enough with the PM to say. I’ve just heard horror stories about the noose/strap head being a dick killer. I’ve almost replaced hanging with extending until a better hanger comes along.

As noose stretchers go, the PM is probably the best, but I’m thinking of getting an AE as I definitely want an ADS and was intending to substitute it for my hanger also (I’m getting gains at a low weight).

The thing is, at the moment I’m trying out the new rice-sock fulcrum-technique as detailed in the ‘bib has spoken’ thread and it seems to be giving me great results, so I’m still not sure what to do— whatever happens I’m going to need an AE head but I’m still in two minds as to whether I should get the whole unit, especially since I’m making such great gains with the new fulcrum technique.

Originally Posted by Big Girtha
I’m curious, in what way did your Bib break, because I can’t use mine anymore either. it won’t stay closed.

The catch on my desk-chair slipped while I was hanging and the seat dropped forward. It gave me my first donut and threaded the wing-nut on the tightening bolt at the same time. I could unscrew the wing-nut but when I tried to tighten it it would only go so far before sticking fast. The thing is— it was a few weeks before I realised it was broken, so I was tightening it up and thinking I was held fast when in fact it was just stuck on the broken section of thread. I got massive lymph build-up because I was upping the weight every week following bud_do’s program. I kept increasing the weight because I thought the lymph build-up was just par for the course. In actual fact, I wasn’t getting the bib anywhere near tight enough to hang the heavier weights because the wing-nut was locking up on the bolt and preventing me from getting the grip I needed.

Because it was locking up, where I was turning the wing-nut to tighten it, it started ripping up the housing for the nut (at the opposite end of the bolt to the wing-nut). The nut ended up spinning in the housing so I glued the nut in place with epoxy resin but I ended up stripping the thread on the tightening-bolt trying to get the bib tight enough to comfortably hang 9lbs (I can’t hang heavy without a good grip)

I bought a medium-duty C-clamp which I’ve been using to tighten the bib at the points where the nut and wing-nut were previously located.

Right now I’m thinking of sawing it down to the size of a bib-starter because I feel like I’m only exercising the part of my shaft outside of the bib— I was originally intending to work up to heavy weights, but as it is I can’t hang much over 7.5lbs with the grip the bib offers so I’m thinking I may as well saw it down to make a bib-starter (luckily I’m still making gains at lower weights)

However, I’m in two minds as to whether I should do this, as I was thinking that if I could make two ‘wells’ on each side of the Bib for either end of a c-clamp, I could clamp tight enough to exceed the 8-9lb threshold I seem to be stuck under should I need to hang heavier in future.

Ultimately I’m hoping that I can continue to gain at the lower weights and that I won’t have to resort to continual weight increases.

You can probably see why I’m in such confusion as to which way to go with regards to the PE equipment.


Previously known as Mr. Fantastic

-------------------------------------------------------------

Size Myths in the Porn Industry

Mr. F: Both your and ModestoMan’s descriptions intrigue me and effectively crack my potato sack musings. Oh fudge, and I thought I had everything completely understood about PE :)

Well, my autoextender is already waiting for me at the post office, so I’m going to keep mostly with that and avoid clamping as most of the evidence seems to rationally suggest gradual hanging is the crux of PE.

Off topic, and as per my namesake, I have a few crazy ideas about experiments in the coming days (namely making a salve that will absorb Type III Collagen among other ingredients through the shaft skin and hopefully into the penis itself; to be applied after an intense stretch). That, combined with Goonbaby’s idea to use vibration (ala a vibrator) to loosen up the tissues of the penis before and during a stretch, constantly applied heat, an ADS, and I think my first consistent PE routine will finally truly begin.

Originally Posted by Mad Hatter
Mr. F: Both your and ModestoMan’s descriptions intrigue me and effectively crack my potato sack musings. Oh fudge, and I thought I had everything completely understood about PE :)

It sounds like you’re on the right track— I’m not sure that any of us really understand it fully.

Originally Posted by Mad Hatter
Well, my autoextender is already waiting for me at the post office, so I’m going to keep mostly with that and avoid clamping as most of the evidence seems to rationally suggest gradual hanging is the crux of PE.

The Autoextender is an excellent choice and your plan for it’s usage seems good— make sure to measure every week, or at least four times a month and keep a close eye on your gains-rate.

From what I’ve read, the fastest increases possible from hanging heavy weights (22+lbs) matches the maximum-gains figures for the Penimaster (as recorded at the Penimaster homepage)…

…i.e. approximately 1” over five months (which is fast).

It is possible— I’m personally currently matching that rate of growth using the new rice-sock fulcrum-technique from the ‘Bib has spoken’ thread (the inventor of the technique apparently recorded a 2.375” increase in BPEL over seventeen months).

The question is, whether or not the whole collagen theory has any truth to it and if it does, just how intense and for how long can you stretch or hang without slowing the gain-rate?

I’m guessing that’s not a question that’s going to be answered anytime soon.

Originally Posted by Mad Hatter
Off topic, and as per my namesake, I have a few crazy ideas about experiments in the coming days (namely making a salve that will absorb Type III Collagen among other ingredients through the shaft skin and hopefully into the penis itself; to be applied after an intense stretch). That, combined with Goonbaby’s idea to use vibration (ala a vibrator) to loosen up the tissues of the penis before and during a stretch, constantly applied heat, an ADS, and I think my first consistent PE routine will finally truly begin.

That’s interesting, I was thinking about looking into that also— there’s a lot of info. on just that topic in the why gains slow thread (you probably read it). Also— there are some pretty knowledgable guys in the supplements forum who could probably offer some input— it might be an idea to start a thread there (personally I don’t know a lot about it (other then what I read in the why gains slow thread))


Previously known as Mr. Fantastic

-------------------------------------------------------------

Size Myths in the Porn Industry

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