Thunder's Place

The big penis and mens' sexual health source, increasing penis size around the world.

Androgens May Be Critical to EQ

Androgens May Be Critical to EQ

If you’re new to PE, and want to give yourself the best chance to see improvements (especially considering how much time you’re going to put into this!), then using any and all information is essential. Sometimes it’s just a small piece of information that can make the difference to the degree of success you achieve.

One interesting study I came across today shows how something that many of us have suspected for a while has a basis in the scientific literature. Androgens (i.e., Testosterone, DHT, androstenedione mainly) are necessary for maintaining the structure of the most critical parts of the penis responsible for erections - the Corpus Cavernosum and the Tunica Albuginea.

To summarize, the study looked at rats. They separated them into groups, a control group and 2 other groups. Of the experimental groups, the important one was the group where they castrated the rats. This of course means much lower testosterone (especially the most important form, Free Testosterone), and lower DHT levels.

The castrated group showed a high-degree of fibrosis (a condition that could lead to Peyronie’s disease) and worse, a sharp reduction in Smooth Muscle content in the Tunica (it’s the relaxation of this smooth muscle that leads to erections).

So if you want to give yourself the best opportunity for success, make sure your Testosterone levels (including DHT) don’t drop. Although untested, probably increasing these levels wouldn’t hurt anything.


Jan 2011 --- Bpfsl 5-1/2" ---Bpel 6-1/8" --- Mseg 5-3/8"

Aug 2011 --- Bpfsl 6-1/8" ---Bpel 6-1/8" ---

Goal 1 : BPEL: 7.5" Goal 2 : MSEG: 6"

Question is, how do we keep them elevated?

Link the study please.

By the way, low levels of T aren’t good, but this doesn’t imply higher than normal levels of T lead to more growth - this has been shown to be not true.

According to scientific studies, Once you have passed puberty, unless you suffered from hypogonadism, introducing androgens will not contribute anything to generate growth. EQ and libido yes, but growth no.

Hi Marinera,

Here’s the study: http://www.asiaandro.com/archive/1008-682X/5/33.htm

I wouldn’t expect higher free-T levels to increase growth rate, but low levels over a long period of time will decrease smooth muscle tone and SMC volume, leading progressively toward lower EQ. What constitutes a ‘low level’ of Free-T (free testosterone) though is probably a question for personalized medicine to answer (some day).

For now, the one thing we know is that the ratio of SMC (smooth muscle cells) to collagen deteriorates over time (especially after the ago of 50). What could cause this? So far the mechanism by which this happens is unknown. However, some in biology speculate that the free-form of androgens in males today is lower then in the past. It could be due to progressive environmental conditions (exposure to beer, fragrances, perfumes, etc) working to lower our Free-T levels over time. So it may not be age-related so much as overexposure. Attempting to raise Free-T levels (through weight training, proper sleep, Nettle Teas, etc) may simply be offsetting a ‘disease’ of our modern age.

.

One more thing about exposure over time (to agents that lower our androgens) is that trying to artificially elevate androgens after ED has taken hold may not have any short term effect. So studies that show no change in EQ with the use of androgen supplements may be looking to solve a long-term disorder with a short-term fix. If your SMC health and quantity have been deteriorating for years, how can a sudden influx of Testosterone have any effect? It can’t. Low levels of androgens affect the structure of the penis - and that’s not something that any remedy can fix quickly.

However, keeping one’s androgen levels healthy over the course of many years may turn out to be a necessary ingredient for successful PE. Many factors lower free-T, including the preponderance of phyto-estrogens in our food (and stored in fat-cells in our bodies).

Probably this discussion is more relevant to older individuals, as those who are younger probably haven’t accumulated enough negative effects from our environment to have a prolonged impact on EQ. Although with the obesity epidemic in the western world these days maybe these effects apply to the young as well.

.


Jan 2011 --- Bpfsl 5-1/2" ---Bpel 6-1/8" --- Mseg 5-3/8"

Aug 2011 --- Bpfsl 6-1/8" ---Bpel 6-1/8" ---

Goal 1 : BPEL: 7.5" Goal 2 : MSEG: 6"

One more interesting study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16390736

I have not purchased the full text, but the last line of the abstract summarizes the findings. “Androgen deficiency promotes differentiation into adipogenic lineage, and accumulation of adipocytes in the corpus cavernosum may contribute to erectile dysfunction.” In other words, progenitor cells form into either SMCs or into Fat Cells (adipogenic cells), and the mitigator are androgens. So my bet is to keep androgenic levels as high as possible. There may be no ‘cut-off’ that flips things like a switch, it may be more like a scale. The lower and lower one’s testosterone the less and less SMC cells will be generated.

So without evidence to the contrary, I see no reason not to try to increase androgenic levels naturally (I’m not advocating taking supplemental androstenedione however, but am promoting the idea of naturally boosting free-T and DHT). When you think about the ways that modern lifestyle can reduce androgens, they tend to be modern pollutants and behaviors. Keeping fit with daily strength building is probably more in line with how men have traditionally gone about their day for millions of years. It wouldn’t surprise me in the least that nature took advantage of the benefits of Testosterone to promote a vital organ found in men only (hence the dependence on T rather then a substance shared equally among the sexes).

.


Jan 2011 --- Bpfsl 5-1/2" ---Bpel 6-1/8" --- Mseg 5-3/8"

Aug 2011 --- Bpfsl 6-1/8" ---Bpel 6-1/8" ---

Goal 1 : BPEL: 7.5" Goal 2 : MSEG: 6"

So when I just got a blood test result back that said slightly lower T-levels than normal and I am not seeing gain from PE, it could be because of that?

But how am I supposed to raise it. I workout at least twice a weak and eat healthy.

No, not necessarily. This is a very fuzzy science so far, and when it comes to making predictions about T levels and PE success, well there’s simply NO hard data to prove anything one way or the other. (Even if there were, I’d be very wary about any single study, if 10 studies say the same thing then that’s something you can rely on).

Higher T levels will probably not hurt your PE success, and there is some possibility that they will help them. However, NO ONE can say for certain that if you raise your free-T levels that you will definately have more success. It’s just an unknown. And unfortunately, what works for you may not work at all for someone else.

Sorry to sound so vague, but in this field there is no hard data to show that anything works 100% of the time. It is very much trial-and-error guided by techniques that work for some people. It also seems to me, that personal results vary a great deal from one guy to the next, so that makes things even less predictable.

I’m raising my T levels naturally because I’m noticing some great effects (I seem to have more energy, my weight training seems easier, etc). So for me it’s got a potential double-benefit with no downside. I do not take any form of artificial androgens however - my diet helps to promote higher T levels naturally. I eat an unbelievable amount of greens every day (broccoli, celery, bell-peppers/capsicum, spinach, bok-choi - that’s the bulk of my diet). I also drink green tea and stinging nettle tea (alot!). I take some supplements to improve my circulation (gingko, ginseng, garlic) and I do intense interval training. I also take contrast showers every day, making sure to get my testicles alternating temp as well. These circulation routines are important. Without excellent circulation your body is not going to circulate all that extra free-T around, so circulation is probably the most important step to make sure that T is going to where it needs to go to.


Jan 2011 --- Bpfsl 5-1/2" ---Bpel 6-1/8" --- Mseg 5-3/8"

Aug 2011 --- Bpfsl 6-1/8" ---Bpel 6-1/8" ---

Goal 1 : BPEL: 7.5" Goal 2 : MSEG: 6"

Originally Posted by Deckker
Hi Marinera,

Here’s the study: http://www.asiaandro.com/archive/1008-682X/5/33.htm
.


Penile changes were found only in castrated rats, which had, basically, no testosterone at all; the other group, with low T levels, had no penile changes. I’m not arguing that low T levels are a good thing, just that the link between penis size/structure isn’t that direct as many speculate, once the subject is post-puberal. And they are speaking of rats, anyway.

Originally Posted by marinera
Penile changes were found only in castrated rats, which had, basically, no testosterone at all; the other group, with low T levels, had no penile changes. I’m not arguing that low T levels are a good thing, just that the link between penis size/structure isn’t that direct as many speculate, once the subject is post-puberal. And they are speaking of rats, anyway.

All very true Marinera, and very valid points. At best, this is an indication of some relationship, but as you point out, this is a study on rats, and uses a methodology coming from near-zero levels of Testosterone rather then just lower levels.

There are other studies showing a structural relationship between zero levels of Testosterone verses normal levels. Of course, no one has zero levels of T (even Women don’t!) but there don’t seem to be any studies looking at lowered levels of testosterone and it’s effects of penile structures. This study links to several other studies about this effect: http://www.andrologyjournal.org/cgi…t/full/30/4/363

There certainly is no proof one way or the other regarding androgen-levels and penile structure, but there is some anecdotal evidence and limited indirect evidence. Weightlifting and other healthy choices regarding lifestyle and diet can help keep androgen levels from decreasing, and as these activities have no real down-side, it is probably a valid choice to make.

With the above link, go to the subsections titled: “Androgens Maintain Vascular Endothelial Structure and Function” and “Androgens Maintain Tunica Albuginea Structural Integrity and Connective Tissue Matrix Fibroelastic Properties”


Jan 2011 --- Bpfsl 5-1/2" ---Bpel 6-1/8" --- Mseg 5-3/8"

Aug 2011 --- Bpfsl 6-1/8" ---Bpel 6-1/8" ---

Goal 1 : BPEL: 7.5" Goal 2 : MSEG: 6"

My penis might BE a rat.

It sometimes scurries. `:-)


Before: I'd like to show you something I'm very proud of, but you'll have to move real close.

After: I\'d like to show you something I\'m very proud of, but you guys in the front row will have to stand back.

God gave men both a penis and a brain, but unfortunately not enough blood supply to run both at the same time. - Robin Williams (:

Top

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:21 AM.