Originally posted by tyson21 What if your growth plates had closed is it possible you could still have more development filling out,thicker bones etc?
They actually have surgery for that.
I thought we were supposed to talk about HGH.
Thanks for ruining my post!! :mad:
Its sometimes tough when a thread goes off beam, especially when it contains questions that you really want answered.
I have to say though that your initial posts probably didn’t help people figure out what you were actually getting at.
It might be worth trying to formulate it as a series of questions or a simple postulation with with people can agree or disagree.
That said, people are discussing HGH just not in the context you want.
Thunder's Place: increasing penis size one dick at a time.
Re: I need you HGH pros here.... dead serious
Originally posted by LonerJ I know this is going to be long… But I'd Love you guys to read every word…
Please bare with me and I want every want of you who knows something about HGH or have used it to reply to this and contribute.
This is basically the fact that injectables work and other methods do not work.
Argument that injectables are the only solution
We do not supply oral or spray forms of HGH - Human Growth Hormone or HGH - Human Growth Hormone secretagogues for one simple reason: they do not work. In fact, they can be counter-productive to any anti-aging, fitness or body building program. “So called” oral HGH or secretagogues in the form of sprays, tablets, powders or capsules are a shameless attempt by greedy, unscrupulous marketers to separate the unknowing from their money, and we consider the sales of such products to be unethical.
Here are some of the reasons why:
1. “So called” oral HGH - Human Growth Hormone “releasers” cause the adrenal glands to increase cortisone production. Cortisone gives you a temporary boost in energy and a feeling of well-being; however, cortisone, also known as cortisol, has two major bad side effects. Cortisone speeds up the aging process and it is catabolic to (tears down and consumes) lean muscle mass. This explains why some users of oral HGH - Human Growth Hormone products claim to have immediate “feel-good” effects. These feelings, however, are unrelated to HGH - Human Growth Hormone
2. “So called” HGH - Human Growth Hormone releasers have the same effect as ghrelin, an appetite stimulating peptide hormone. These “releasers” therefore cause an increase in appetite leading to weight gain and increases in fat, not lean body mass.
3. Most of these oral products are simply composed of amino acids, primarily L-arginine. It is true that on an empty stomach very large dosages (equal to an entire handful of capsules) of L- arginine can raise the HGH - Human Growth Hormone level secreted by the pituitary in a young person by up to 25% but only for a very brief period of time and only in those who are already producing more than sufficient amounts of HGH - Human Growth Hormone naturally. Oral products simply cannot restore the HGH - Human Growth Hormone secretion levels of a person whose levels are below youthful amounts due to normal aging, trauma or genetic abnormalities. If you wish to purchase amino acids you may do so inexpensively at your local discount store.
4. HGH - Human Growth Hormone is a large, fragile protein molecule. An insulin molecule is half the size of an HGH - Human Growth Hormone molecule. If insulin was small enough to pass through the gut or mucus membranes effectively then no one today would be injecting insulin. Everyone would be taking insulin orally or by spray due to the convenience. If the research labs of multi-billion dollar international pharmaceutical companies have not found a way to administer insulin orally or as a spray in an effective manner, it is preposterous to think that tiny, overnight “supplement” companies have found a way to do so with HGH - Human Growth Hormone when true HGH - Human Growth Hormone has TWICE the molecular size of insulin. Also, if it were possible to administer HGH - Human Growth Hormone orally or by a spray, why wouldn't the manufacturers of HGH - Human Growth Hormone make it that way in the first place? They don't because they haven't developed a way as of yet.
6. Due to its fragility, once true HGH - Human Growth Hormone is constituted with solution it must be refrigerated or it will degrade immediately rendering it useless. How then can a spray or tablet last at room temperature and not be destroyed?
7. Lastly, even if all other concerns were put aside, the dosages claimed by oral and spray manufacturers are just too small to make any difference. According to oral manufacturer's claims, one dose of their “so called” HGH - Human Growth Hormone Oral Spray contains 25-50 nanograms (parts per billion). The typical daily HGH injection is usually about one international unit (1 IU). One IU is equivalent to 250,000 nanograms. At 25 nanograms you would receive only 1/10,000ths of the effective dosage. You would have to take 10,000 sprays to be equal to one typical injection of true HGH - Human Growth Hormone. At these levels, even if the sprays were genuine HGH - Human Growth Hormone the dosage would be so miniscule that the effect would be non-existent.
True HGH - Human Growth Hormone can only be absorbed into the body in effective amounts by injection. It must be pure, pharmaceutical grade HGH - Human Growth Hormone, identical in composition to the growth hormone secreted by the pituitary gland located near the center of the human brain. At this time, it is the only true solution for HGH - Human Growth Hormone replacement or supplemental therapy.
Argument that oral sprays do work and there is substantial evidence of this.
hgh spray: Much confusion and controversy exists around this, because of two things - brand names, and alleged human growth hormone molecular modification (to make it absorbable sublingually through the mouth). Let me explain my understanding of it.
The GH molecule is simply too large to absorb through the mucous membranes of the mouth. Without some other method of getting them through, you won't get any in your body. Some companies have claimed to come up with a way to do that with a “delivery system” (as with the spray I use who claims an exclusive delivery system that works).
They have said they essentially modify the molecule, or in some other way make it so it will absorb. They then register a brand name for this.
Drug companies often trademark a “brand” of a drug, even though that's not the drugs “real”, or “generic” name. For instance, Valium® is a registered trademark name for the drug diazepam.
Somatropin is the actual “generic name” of real hgh human growth hormone (recombinant - not human or animal derived). One of the big drug companies calls their “brand” of hgh injectable, Nutropin®. Another calls theirs “Humatrope®”.
Thus, in a real hgh spray, the human growth hormone may be called “——-tropin®”, depending on the brand. Furthermore, it must be mixed with another substance that allows it to absorb into the body through the mouth, thus it's not just Somatropin.
However, MOST sprays/pills/powders that use “hgh” something or other on the label, do NOT even contain any real hgh - even molecularly/genetically modified.
hgh doses: The doses of hgh in the brand of real human growth hormone spray, are in nanograms, far less than how much is taken via injections. But anecdotal reports/user testimonials, and our personal experiences, indicate it is sufficient (at least in the higher dosages).
However, even some of the brands that contain real hgh, have very little (probably because the hgh is so expensive). Our recommendation has the highest doses we know of (again, see recommendations page). Even then, I personally had to take about a third more than normal, probably because I'm a very large man, or because of my diet or alcohol consumption (which can neutralize the unstable GH molecule, very rapidly).
There are other important differences between brands though, such as toxicity, lack of testing, and useless “delivery systems”.
hgh “delivery systems”: While some sprays also contain real hgh, the human growth hormone can't make it into your body orally - unless there is some new way to achieve it.
While some doctors insist there IS NO WAY to have a delivery system other than injection, I must point to the fact that this was said for decades about insulin, and it's molecule is very similar to the GH one - it's too big.
Yet major studies have been ongoing for years on alternative delivery systems for insulin, and MD's are saying we are literally on the verge of an insulin pill, and an inhalant that will allow it to be absorbed through the lungs. They may even be approved and available for prescription this year. So if THAT is possible, how could it be so impossible that an oral delivery system CANNOT be, or has not been, developed.
I'm no doctor, but I personally believe the spray I use, has achieved that, or some other element of its chemistry is doing something. Of course, I may be wrong and everyone I know who uses it is just the benefiting from the most massive great positive placebo effect ever known. Placebo or not, if it works, it works. And other brands and forms I've tried (other than injectable) haven't worked for me.
Some brands of hgh spray contend that they use alcohol or MSM as a delivery system. Expert consensus, my educated opinion, and discussions with doctors I've spoken with, conclude that no amount of alcohol, MSM or similar derivatives, will work as a delivery system.
Some brands of hgh spray are now claiming that it's the delivery system only, that gives the hormonal-like results, and are selling bottles of that. We have a pharmaceutical company friend investigating that, and Homeopathic forms. If they turn out legitimate, we'll let you know.
hgh “precursor” supplements: Next, there are “precursor” sprays, pills and powders. These claim to make your own body produce more of its own hgh. According to my MD, these can help some people, if their body is “up to” producing more, and would be the most natural way if it works for you, but that taking real human growth hormone would be far more effective and work for many people who precursors won't work for. He recommended I try a spray precursor first.
So I tried precursors for a while first, but with no noticeable results. But again, I'm not “average” but if a precursor worked as well for me as “the real thing”, I'd use that instead.
Homeopathic Finally, there are homeopathic versions of hgh. According to one anti-aging specialist MD, Homeopathic only has 1/1600 the of the normal dose, thus is useless. But I believe they may have promise, for several reasons. First of all, because homeopathy is the legitimate medical method of choice in Germany, and other parts of Europe. Of course, we know Germans are no fools. It's a country who has produced multiple geniuses like Einstein, a country the size of mediocre US state that almost took over the world - twice, and the produce some of the best and most respected products in the world, like Mercedes Benz, BMW, and Porsche. So maybe they know something we don't know about medicine? It's certainly possible at the least.
Homeopathy is also catching on big here. It has moved from health food stores and Naturopathic Doctors, to being found in the isles of mainstream drug stores and pharmacies, and beginning to be prescribed by US MD's.
Plus, the criticism that it contains minute doses, is ludicrous, because that is the whole point of homeopathy - to stimulate the body into the desired actions, but introducing highly miniscule substances.
Finally, it is the only form of HGH that I've seen at least some form of legitimate study on, even though it was not a large University study (it at least involved an MD and PhD).
We are still looking into these, but so far, the MD's we've spoken with, and the university studies, still point to using genuine human growth hormone spray or injections as the best bet for now.
============================================== Dangers of injectable HGH
- It might stop natural body's HGH production because injectables are so potent. Your body might simply go “okay that's enough HGH production”.
Higher risk for developing forms of cancer. Diabetes Insulin resistance Fluid retention Carpal tunnel syndrome Gynecomastia (enlarged breasts) Lowered production of the body's own human growth hormone. Acromegaly (abnormal bone growth in the wrist, hands and feet).
Counters to injectable HGH (mine)
- Injectable HGH should be used for the elderly far possibly at the ages of 40+ in which HGH production is at serious declines or lacking. So it won't be really against your body's own HGH. Also you can measure your body's HGH with a physician to take doses which will be helpful but won't attack your body's production dramatically.
- Fluid retention only occurs when HGH is overdosed and can be stopped by taking lower doses.
- Gynecomastia also occurs from T therapy hmmm… No idea but anti estrogen supplements will help?
- Diabetes ….. yikes!! No opposition there
- Insulin resistance… linked to diabetes
- Cancer. :(
Counters to natural supplements and stimulants
- None found or mentioned.
Can the safest road to HGH use in any age lead to natural solutions, herbs and stimulants such as:
- GABA - Pills that contains stimulants (sold as HGH pills) - L-Arginine - L-Glutamine - Anti cortisol (cortisol causes aging as well) - other HGH stimulating ingredients.
These supplements can be taken for years as supplements on a regular routine. These are also work out supplements.
So what do you guys think?
HGH injectables definitely work but at a high risk. I do not even know if the risks are high…. All I know is that these risks are there and people are taking injectables (some for years) with none of the negative results but who knows what's in their future for the long run?
People argue that natural stimulants and oral sprays are a bunch of crap. I have heard real people (from forums) say they've gotten results with naturals and oral sprays such as fat loss, muscle gain, better sleep, etc.
The question is how effective is this in the long term?
How to find reputable oral sprays?
Look for FDA approved factories. Look for ingredients.
What is our anti-aging solution?
I don’t understand why you would even be intested in this ? I have used it in the past along side Steroids and I know allot of guys that have used it so my worning is stay away from it and don’t even think about using it if you don’t need it or are using it along side anabolic steroids. Also what I would say is if you OD on this stuff you are up shit creek with out a padell and I know you don’t want bigger fingers and a lager jawline ‘fuck’ there is to many things to consider before even thinking about HGH. As for then not being usefull for Bodybuilding well take a quick look at this line and this is what HGH does to you when you life to many weights, he stacks it with gear and is an avid user of HGH. I also feel that HGH has contributed to my gains of strengh and mass the few stacks that I have used it.
7 x 7 1/2 NBPEL
Shooting for 8 x 7 NBPEL
Willy: why did you quote the whole post??
Johnny2 & tyson21: Here’s my response to a similar question in another thread (about HGH and bone growth):
“The epiphysis, or growing area, of long bones usually closes by age 16 or so. An increase in circulating growth hormone (gh) would have no effect on these bones and an increase in height would be very unlikely. Normal serum levels of growth hormone is 3-5 ng/ml. People with acromegaly (a disease characterized by abnormal growth of soft tissues due to increased gh caused by a pituitary tumor) have levels around 10 ng/ml for long periods of time. You’d have to take a very, very large dose of l-arginine to raise your hg level to 6 ng/ml and it wouldn’t last long enough to make much difference.”
In other words, if you’re old enough to be a member at Thunder’s Place, GH will not make you taller because your growing plates are already fused. IF you could get your blood levels high enough for a long enough period of time with oral GH stimulants, you’d increase soft tissue growth all over, not just in your penis. Look up “agromegaly” on the internet and see if you want to look like the people who have this disease.
Attached photo: see how acromegaly changed this man’s face over the years.
Sorry about that my bad.
7 x 7 1/2 NBPEL
Shooting for 8 x 7 NBPEL
Thanks Westla,so although im 21 and I finished growing in height along time ago when I was 17 I think, could I still have more bone development like thicker wrists,collar bone etc… because my Dad and two brothers filled out at the age of 20=21 although they finished growing in hieght at 17 like me.
the reason I ask is im worried ive stunted my growth after taking some dbol when I was 20.
Bro you havn’t stunted your growth from taking Dbol when you where 20, trust me you would need allot more gear then just Dbol to do that. Anyway I started taking roids when I was 17 and I am over 6 foot 4 and Arnie started roids at 13 or 14, not saying that its advisable because it can stunt growth but I wouldn’t be to worried about a few Dbol.
7 x 7 1/2 NBPEL
Shooting for 8 x 7 NBPEL
Originally posted by westla90069 Willy: why did you quote the whole post??
Johnny2 & tyson21: Here's my response to a similar question in another thread (about HGH and bone growth):
“The epiphysis, or growing area, of long bones usually closes by age 16 or so. An increase in circulating growth hormone (gh) would have no effect on these bones and an increase in height would be very unlikely. Normal serum levels of growth hormone is 3-5 ng/ml. People with acromegaly (a disease characterized by abnormal growth of soft tissues due to increased gh caused by a pituitary tumor) have levels around 10 ng/ml for long periods of time. You'd have to take a very, very large dose of l-arginine to raise your hg level to 6 ng/ml and it wouldn't last long enough to make much difference.”
In other words, if you're old enough to be a member at Thunder's Place, GH will not make you taller because your growing plates are already fused. IF you could get your blood levels high enough for a long enough period of time with oral GH stimulants, you'd increase soft tissue growth all over, not just in your penis. Look up “agromegaly” on the internet and see if you want to look like the people who have this disease.
Attached photo: see how acromegaly changed this man's face over the years.
“You see, I don’t want to do good things, I want to do great things.” ~Alexander Joseph Luthor
I know Lewd Ferrigno personally.
well I dont think I stunted it while on the dbol im thinking when I stopped taking it I got slight gyno which means I must have had high estrogen for a while and I have read estrogen is what stunts ones growth!
FreeWilly what roids did you take?
Originally posted by tyson21 FreeWilly what roids did you take?
Everything from Sust to Tren homemade of course lol A.Bombs shit there is just to many to name that have been in my arse, delts and thighs LOL.
Why do you ask do you need advice if so P.M me.
7 x 7 1/2 NBPEL
Shooting for 8 x 7 NBPEL
[QUOTE]Originally posted by freewilly [B]
Don’t want to get off his subject to much.
Back onto HGH
7 x 7 1/2 NBPEL
Shooting for 8 x 7 NBPEL
quote: ———————————————————————————————————————— Originally posted by tyson21 What if your growth plates had closed is it possible you could still have more development filling out,thicker bones etc?
Surgery for what? growth plates or thicker bones? explain!