If you follow a stony path curving around a small hill that reveals a much larger one behind. You scramble and then climb, stretching one hold as you reach for the next. A realization dawns that this is much higher than you were expecting. The air is sparse and cool as you reach the peak. Below you, all of Thunder’s Place is stretching into the distance. This is a paean to one of those peaks you may have never seen before.
Statistics are boring. Everyone knows that. Well almost everyone. But what was your routine 6 months ago? A bit fuzzy, is it? Was it working? And when you are measuring now are you sure it’s different from before. You noted it down, right? Yeah, maybe it’s in a file in a folder somewhere and you hid it away and can’t find it. Maybe you’re super organized and everything is in a spreadsheet but are you tracking your routines against your gains? Can you visualize it? Something like this.
hunglikeagerbil logs well. He will be able to look back and see what routine was best for growth. The spoiler is it looks like his fulcrum stretch routine really kicked things into high gear for length gains and it’s probably his least time consuming routine.
If you click on the Top Stats link in PE stats, you’ll be presented with the people making most use of the system. Trekker is sitting at the top. And this is a flavor of what his stats show.
Trekker’s routine hasn’t changed for a while and you can clearly see the newbie gains phase and then the slower later gains but this is where perseverance pays off, he’s kept going and he keeps gaining. All those small steps add up to about 1” gain in BPEL after his newbie gains stopped. And he’s still going.
Top Stats shows what consistency and hard work does in PE and all the people listed, even though many don’t post, are doing the kinds of things that we should be emulating.
RyanPL was tracking his weight and it shows a rather dramatic shift towards his ideal weight in just over four months. There’s power in setting a commitment in public.
You can track gains and routines. If you add periods you are using certain routines, they will show on the graphs. Create a thread in the Progress Reports forums and link it to the routine and then edit the first post as needed. If you see a routine you like, you can clone it from other people (or from yourself) and then edit to your liking.
Stats can vizualise your health. It’s not a Garmin watch or an Oura ring yet. Given your height and weight, BMI will appear. With the combination of height and waist circumference, it will generate a ratio (WHtR) which is linked to metabolic health. The combination of weight and waist circumference will calculate your body fat more accurately than BMI. All that and snazzy graphs to help it make more sense.
If you want a broader view, check the analysis page. This shows an analysis of all stats.
Driving a car is risky. Everyone knows someone who has had a serious accident. Some of us have dangerous jobs or live in places that are far from safe. If those aren’t enough, we often add risk as a leisure activity.
We don’t think of these things as perilous or we might never do them. Even if we consider the risks we are sure bad outcomes will happen to someone less capable than us. As a whole, we humans are pretty bad at judging risk and pretty sure that we can overcome the odds. This problem is worse the younger we are. It’s not that older people are more clever, it’s just that the older you get the more times you’ve experienced situations that almost kill you.
So, if we are all agreed that humans as a whole and young humans particularly are quite bad at assessing potential for harm, how does this apply to PE? In PE we apply force to change our penis: too much and we end in injury, too little and nothing happens. It’s hard to tell where we are in that force curve. New PEers can’t estimate the risk but advanced PEers tend to be playing with greater force and potential risk.
Your favorite advanced PEer who seems to have everything worked out and has gained massively has also injured himself. He may not have talked about it or may have mentioned it in passing. He may have detailed it in a thread you’ve never seen. Injury is normal. Recovery from injury is also normal. As in most things in life, if you play it safe you get nothing.
If you are a beginner, remember that part of learning is screwing up. One day you’ll be the advanced PEer who has injured himself and recovered and carried on. So, when you injure yourself don’t let it bring you down, treat it as a teachable moment. Injury is annoying. It will prevent you from PEing and stall progress but you’re also training yourself to not do it again.
Let’s look at some of the ways that injuries occur and how to avoid them.
When you first start PE, you have to concentrate on what you are doing to maintain form. This can be hard if you are using visualization or porn to maintain an erection. It’s easy to focus on whatever is maintaining your erection and away from the actual PE.
As your PE journey progresses, the mechanical side becomes obvious and repetitive. Boring. Your attention will wander.
Injury happens when you aren’t paying attention. Notice your mind wandering and bring it back.
If you add equipment, often you can PE while doing other things. You might set up your hanger or pump and then read or watch TV. This can work out but also it can lead to empty sessions, if you don’t notice your pump losing pressure or don’t notice that the hanging is a little too easy on your penis to have effect. It can also lead to injury as you won’t notice when things are going wrong until they are really going wrong.
This brings us to a very important point. When you injure yourself, stop PEing. You can’t stop PEing if you don’t notice. Some injuries like vein breaches are painless. It’s quite possible to carry on if you haven’t noticed and make a situation worse.
It’s important to PE is good light. If your penis is turning all shades of the rainbow or bulging out of one side and you can’t see it because you’ve gone for romantic lighting, you might miss the injury as it occurs. You should also be checking around your penis visually as you PE, the underside of your dick is just as likely to get injured.
Not all injuries are visible. It’s quite possible you’ll finish a session and feel fine and then notice some pain later. It’s reasonable to feel mild pain or shooting pains after a session. That might be associated with hitting the right spot. If you’re still feeling twinges by the time of your next session, skip the session.
If you are injured, keep positive. It’s quite normal for the penis to not want to become erect if it’s injured. It’s quite normal for injuries to look or feel worse after the fact (this is the body repairing). Most injuries will resolve themselves within a week or two but you might still need to be careful: it’s very easy to injure the same area again.
To summarize:
Diet is confusing. Experts disagree. There’s a lot of money to be made. People are getting fatter every day, diabetes is rising and Alzheimer’s (aka type 3 diabetes) is at an epidemic level. Go back a few generations and people were healthier. What changed?
Flour production industrialized. Seed oils were developed. Kellogg changed breakfast forever - for religious reasons. Then Ike had a heart attack. The resulting hoohaa gave us The Food Pyramid. Americans were told to reduce saturated fat - thought to be the cause of heart attacks (cholesterol). This fake news changed the food industry. Fat made food enjoyable, the food industry replaced it with sugar and unsaturated/trans fat. They branded these foods as heart healthy.
Today the Standard American Diet (SAD!) contains hyper palatable foods with the perfect mixture of salt, sugar and fat. They are chemically engineered for addiction. For the food industry to grow, American waist sizes had to expand!
You can split food up into three main categories: carbohydrates and fats for energy and protein for essential amino acids. There are essential fats but there are no essential carbohydrates.
Lets quickly go through a few of the ways people are now correcting their diet, becoming healthier quickly and saying goodbye to brain fog. If something seems appealing, do some research to fill in the many blanks in this and jump in.
The Carnivore Diet
What happens if you just eat meat and maybe other animal products? Most people would have assumed, until recently, that you get scurvy and die. A few things changed the dial on this. One was an appearance on Joe Rogan of Shawn Baker. Shawn is responsible for popularizing branding “Carnivore” and has written a book on the subject.
Michaela and Jordan Peterson also started talking about their experiences with the carnivore diet and how it helped with auto-immune issues. There’s anecdotal evidence that it’s helped with irritable bowel to bipolar disorder.
It’s the ultimate elimination diet. Very few people are allergic to meat. If you cut out everything that isn’t meat, you’ll cut out things that are affecting you badly. Vegetables contain vitamins and minerals but also anti-nutrients (like oxylates and lectins).
The ease of the diet for busy people is a plus. You can throw some meat in the slow cooker before work, come back eat it or grill a couple of steaks. Some people eat only every other day on this diet but it’s fairly normal to only need to eat once or twice a day. Once you are adapted to the diet these eating patterns are easier than you imagine. If you’re at McDonald’s/BK, just ask for a few burger patties without the bun, sauce, fries or jumbo drink.
Research on the carnivore diet is sparse. We evolved to eat a primarily carnivore diet and there’s good evidence that hunter gatherers had bigger brains and healthier bodies and bones. There were humans at least 300,000 years ago and close cousins going back millions of years. Agriculture started around 14,000 years ago. We haven’t evolved much since the introduction of agriculture. We have hunter gatherer guts.
The Paleo Diet
The root idea of the paleo diet is to eat as our ancestors did in Paleolithic times. In reality it’s more of an echo of that diet or what stone age people would have eaten in they had Walmart. Lots of meat and/or seafood, nuts (not peanuts), berries etc. More natural forms of dairy are normally considered part of Paleo. Processed foods are avoided. Modern fruit is not eaten as it has been engineered to be mostly sugar. Anything that would have been considered food before farming is OK. Beyond that people on paleo tend to swap potatoes, rice and pasta for sweet potatoes (which are closer to the tubers of old) and still eat some vegetables like zucchini.
Liver is a good addition to muscle meat. Liver is out of fashion but has been a part of traditional diets going back and during hunter gatherer time may have been consumed raw soon after a kill.
Paleo is protein and fat heavy and low carb.
The P:E Diet
The P:E diet is another simple way of looking at food. If you have carbohydrates and fat as energy sources and protein to supply amino acids, you can alter your diet and your body simply by dialing up or down the ratio of protein to energy. If you are carrying excess weight, dial up the protein and down the energy sources.
The paleo and carnivore diets are high protein and low energy. After agriculture started diet drifted towards less protein and more energy. Now, the Standard American Diet is mostly energy and a little protein. Nutritionally dense food sources like meat and fish satiate. There’s a difference between using fat and carbs as the energy source. Fat is stored in adiposites and carbs are broken into glycogen and then, if not used, later stored in adiposites.
The glycogen storage system in the body is very limited. Carbs can be useful in small doses if the energy is going to be used quickly but a high carb diet tends to lead to higher excursions in blood sugar levels and a feeling of an energy crash as the body converts the glycogen to fat. Becoming “fat adapted” i.e. getting the body used to fat as it’s energy source prevents the energy rush followed by a crash produced by high carb diets. If your body is making it’s own sugar, as needed, it’s only going to make what it needs.
The Keto Diet
The Keto(genic) diet was made to fight epilepsy: it prevents or lessens seizures. Since then it’s found a wider audience for weight loss and health. You’ll find lots of good and even more bad information online.
For the Keto diet you think in terms of “macros”, i.e. the ratio of carbs, fat and protein to take in during a meal or a day. Generally speaking, you eat 5% - under 50g per day - of carbs, the majority of your energy is derived from 75% fat and protein is 20%.
The point of low carbs is that your body can’t burn the carbs and store fat, so it spends most of it’s time in ketosis where it’s burning fat by converting it to ketones for fuel.
You can do a loose Keto diet without paying much attention to your macros, simply by cutting down on carbs - maybe only eating green veg - and adding fat. Some do a higher protein form of Keto that is closer to paleo with a few added vegetables. Some people use MCT oil or bullet proof coffees to increase their fat intake but this is a bad path long term.
It’s quite possible to eat a Keto diet and gain weight. There are many Keto recipes for lovely deserts that tickle your taste buds in exactly the same way that Standard American Diet deserts do. If you eat too much fat, the body will store it. Nonetheless, it’s a path to more extreme diets and might help with sugar addiction.
The Vegan Diet
There’s a movie to promote the vegan diet called “The Game Changers”. It’s produced by James Cameron who coincidentally owns a vegan pea protein company. It argues that the vegan diet is superior to other diets for things like athleticism. Previous vegan films (like Cowspiracy) have tended towards the moral arguments, so this is new. The film has been debunked multiple times on youtube.
The idea is to eat entirely plant based food sources. Normally this is a step up from the Standard American Diet, so people can pretty quickly see health benefits. It’s definitely a diet that you need to use supplements to do in a healthy way (vitamin B12, for example).
Experienced vegans will often source fermented foods, which is a way of reducing or eliminating the anti-nutrients in plants - a method our ancestors used. Some attempt a raw food diet - some anti-nutrients are created by the cooking process. It’s very hard to do a vegan diet without it making you either health conscious or ill. Watch for things like hair loss, receding gums or bad nails as obvious signs that you are doing it wrong. A common source of protein is soy, this has an estrogen like effect in the body and can lead to Gynecomastia (man boobs) in men.
There is a lot of scientific evidence for vegan diets, mostly from Harvard, but it’s low quality epidemiology that finds correlations but not underlying causes. There’s some evidence that the diet isn’t sustainable. There are also high correlations of veganism with anxiety and mood disorders but again nothing on mechanisms for this.
The main problem with the standard American diet is that it has the perfect mix of carbs and fat to make you prone to overeating before you hit satiety. Vegan diets are normally very low fat and it’s quite easy to lose weight this way. The main source of energy is carbohydrates. Normally, vegans need to eat many times a day. Blood glucose can only get so high before the body starts storing it as fat.
The arguments for veganism are mainly moral. One argument is that we need to be vegan to sustain the planet. Another is that it’s immoral to kill animals for food. The counter is that many more animals are killed in vegetable food productions than animal food production; they just tend to be small mammals and insects dying slowly from poisoning, rather than larger mammals dying from a bolt to the head. It’s not clean cut though, the majority of farmed animals will be fed on farmed vegetation at some point in their lives.
High Carb / Low Carb
There are high carb and low carb ways to improve your diet. Low carb is easiest once your body adapts. People say it’s about calories in and out and it’s true: it’s been researched that you can lose weight on an all twinkie diet. It’s hard to keep muscle mass - a key indicator of longevity - and lose weight, so in either case it’s important keep protein levels up.
Intermittent Fasting
Intermittent fasting is a strategy, rather than a diet but it helps control calorie intake and can help to line up food with the circadian rhythm so that it’s digested more efficiently.
The idea is to eat only during an 8 hour or less window of time. So if you have your first meal at 7 am, your last meal would be finished at 3pm. That’s quite hard if you’re working, so a lot of people skip breakfast and go from 1pm to 9pm.
The body appreciates not having to deal with food all the time. It encourages autophagy and this is important for health.
If you think about it we all intermittently fast when we sleep, so it’s not much effort to slowly shorten the window in which we eat until we hit 8 or less hours. This is a lot easier if you are fat adapted.
Longer fasts are good for the body but a lot of people find them hard. If you can fast for a day or two twice a year, the body can get on with maintenance uninterrupted by food.
Fast track
Try eating just fatty steak or ground beef every day for a month and see how you feel at the end (expect a rough transition, you’re addicted). Eat as much as you want. You could add eggs - some people react badly to eggs - or other meats - like lamb - and unsweetened greek yogurt or even berries and a few veg, if you want an easier path. If you need to keep your coffee, just add thick cream (lots of fat and a few carbs). After a month, if you suffer from constant pain, it should be easier or gone. Low carb diets lessen inflammation but dairy can cause inflammation for some people.
If meat isn’t your thing, try the vegan diet but research a lot. Most of the problems of the vegan diet can be avoided by going pescatarian (adding fish) if you are OK with that, if not google for vegan supplement stacks. Watch your fat intake, it should be low, otherwise you’re into the same area as the Standard American Diet.
Bonus
If your job isn’t highly physical, add weight training to reduce inflammation further. Some people say you need carbs for weight training. You don’t. You need lots of protein - the body will make the glucose it needs via gluconeogenisis and refill muscle glycogen stores as needed. Weight training is good at any age.
If you don’t have access to weights, your body is a weight. See the books below.
If you’re an endurance athlete the calculations are different, you may still need to refuel during races with carbs. The speed of fat burning increases if you are fat adapted but it’s unlikely keep up with your energy output over the long haul. You can be carb free for shorter training stages and your carb intake during races should reduce.
Note that none of these diets except for Vegan mention supplements. You don’t need supplements if you are eating well. A lot of the RDAs for supplements are pulled out of the air.
Resources
Check out the Peak Human podcast on your favorite podcast app. If you’re an athlete and don’t care about sound quality also check out the Human Performance Outliers podcast. Both have guests each time delving into diet, health and beyond. HPO seems to have some sponsored podcasts, so be aware of that. Consider the Ben Greenfield podcast as well - if you are an unusual human who can separate content from ads and sponsored content or have an unlimited budget.
Search youtube for Joe Rogan Shawn Baker, Paul Saladino, Loren Cordain, Ivor Cummins, Mikhaila Peterson, Weston A. Price & Kristie Sullivan.
Read Nutrition and Physical Degeneration - Weston A. Price, Salt, Sugar, Fat - Michael Moss, The Big Fat Surprise - Nina Teicholz, Good Calories, Bad Calories - Gary Taubes - (the insulin model has been debunked), The Carnivore Diet - Shawn Baker, The P:E Diet - Ted Naimen & William Shewfelt, Eat Rich Live Long - Ivor Cummins & Jeffrey Gerber, The Ketogenic Bible - Jacob Wilson & Ryan Lowery, Cooking Keto with Kristie - Kristie Sullivan. If you’re an athlete read Peak - Marc Bubbs.
For an easy intro into weights with minimal equipment read 6 weeks to a Hollywood Body - Steve Zim (for weeks read months), if you are more technical and have access to barbells read Get Serious - Brett Osborn. For a bodyweight approach, again read The P:E Diet - Ted Naimen & William Shewfelt or Smart Bodyweight Training by Matt Schifferle.
On twitter, search for tednaiman, mark_sisson, ProfTimNoakes, SBakerMD, zoeharcombe, DominicDAgosti2, FatEmperor, TuitNutrition, drbillschindler, MikhailaAleksis, MariaEmmerich, TuckerGoodrich, BioLayne.
On top of your shoulders is the most important organ in your body. It consumes 1/5 of your energy. People say that your attitude to life affects everything. If you are a negative person, you’ll be primed to ignore this. Who want to be negative?
Tuning your mind is the first step to any form of success. If you can see what you want it makes it easier to get there. However, if you fail in your head, your body will work to confirm this. Take a second and ask yourself if you believe you can succeed. If not, let’s fix that now.
The subconscious or nonconcious mind has great power. It works to make what you want happen. It also doesn’t really understand the difference between fact and fiction. Be careful how you talk to yourself. Be careful of the media you feed yourself. It’s time to make it work for you.
Imagine yourself in the future, in the perfect state you want. See your brimming confidence. Watch your interactions with other people. Take some time to strengthen this image in your mind. What details do you see? The little things that maybe you’ve noticed in other people and wondered how to make them a part of you. Now imagine yourself stepping into your future self, becoming your future self. Imagine how good that feels.
Ok, this might seem pretty out there but it’s backed by cognitive science. Your mindset is what you become. This is a simple way to train your mind to get you were you want to go. The more you repeat it, the stronger it gets.
Affirmations are another mechanism. They are simple, personal and present tense. If you say to yourself
The way you talk to yourself has a big impact on the way you view yourself. If you are constantly negative about yourself, what do you expect to happen?
Imagine treating yourself as well as you’d treat a good friend or someone you want to encourage. Notice when you speak harshly to yourself. Look for an encouraging thing to say. You want to succeed. Give yourself the best chance.
It takes, Anders Ericsson estimated, 10,000 hours to become an expert at anything. Yet we spend little time in our lives trying to improve the way we think. College might teach us certain ways of thinking that are field specific but other than that we don’t spend a lot of time in our lives trying to improve. That means the bar is super low, you can put in a bit of time and be better than most people. Try these ideas. Search for books on thinking and mindset to expand. Give it a go.
Well hello there. Oh you don’t have to tell me why you’re here; I know. You’re here for the same reason I came to forums like this years ago. You simply want to know if it can be done. So did I and guess what? I found out it could be done.
I was getting a bit older and could easily see the signs; more gray hair; gym workouts getting tougher to complete. You know what it’s like. Sex was still great but there were times when maybe my penis was showing signs of getting older. What could I do about that or do I just accept it as a part of getting older.
I aimlessly wandered around the web until I came to a place just like this one. I began to read about what penis exercises could do and got intrigued. It seemed to tell me that not only will I get more of the hardness back, something they call erection quality, but I could gain length and girth. Now I was never dissatisfied with what I had but maybe a bit more couldn’t hurt but is it possible? With nothing to lose I gave it a try.
It wasn’t very long before I thought I noticed some changes; maybe a bit harder? I had taken measurements but I wasn’t going to check for 6 months. It was about 3 months into my PE journey that my lady and I went away for a weekend and stayed in a hotel with no kids! Hotel sex is always great; never an interruption.
Now the next morning my lady asked if I took a pill last night. I asked for what and she said well you know. No I didn’t. She then told me that I had felt like a steel rod the night before. Well I just told her that I was more relaxed without the kids being around and to chalk it up to that. Now that she noticed so did I!
I continued on my path taking my time, asking questions, thinking about everything I was doing. My methods was only jelqing and stretching. I was careful, maybe even smart. Never once suffered an injury. To me an injury occurs when you just try to get things done too fast.
At the 6th month mark I did my measuring and found 1/4 inch increase in length. Not bad at all. Hey most guys aren’t really upset with their size but a little bit more couldn’t hurt could it? A year later the gain was 1 inch in length, 1/4 in girth and always great erection quality. Okay this stuff does work.
Now on forums like these you will read guys who say they have gotten gains of 2-3 inches or even more. Good for them. I don’t really believe that it’s the norm. An inch, inch and a half in length, 1/2 an inch in girth, great erection quality; not bad for a bit of time. There are also those that say it doesn’t work. They tried and got nothing. To them I say there is a right way and a wrong way to do things and they did it wrong.
So do you want to give it a try? Hey no one is twisting your arm are they? The information is all there and all free. No you don’t have to buy a this or a that; as long as you have a hand or two you can do it. What must you have to do PE? You must have persistence, consistency and the ability to ask questions when you’re not sure. Is that too much to ask for what you’ll get?
So you’re here for the same reasons I came many years ago. It worked for me and it will work for you. There are thousands of guys all over the web that have the same results that I did, some even better. Oh you’ll find the ones that say it won’t work or you’ll just hurt yourself. To them I just say they did it wrong but of course us guys never do anything wrong.
Greater hardness, an increase in length and girth all from using your hands, your brain and time. It will make your penis healthier and maybe give you just a bit more swagger.
So why not come in and learn. Yes I’m in there. In fact there are thousands of me in there. I am one of many that did the work, got results and are willing to help you do the same. We have lots of different names but we all have the same goal.
Now having found your way here and having spent the time to read my wonderful prose well you still wouldn’t be reading if you had no interest. So come on in,join, give yourself a really cool name, ask a lot of questions and benefit from what this place and it’s members have to offer for free. You know you want to so give it a shot! I’ll be waiting.
Alright, so I mentioned in a few entries that I was going to a facility to look into the PRP shot. That event occurred so let me share what the doctor said to the best of my memory and my thoughts on it.
About the facility
First, it’s a medical spa called “The Fountain Rejuvenation Clinic” So it specializes in botox for the face, laser surgery for the face, many cosmetic and other rejuvenation concepts.
Second, it is his spa. He is the only doctor who performs procedures and occasionally has a Nurse Practitioner assist him. The spa is in a swanky neighborhood and has a pair of bathrooms with glass bowl sinks an inch thick. So he caters to the upper tax brackets as a regular thing.
About the doctor
The doctor’s name is Dr. Curtis Birchall. You meet him, and…he doesn’t look 66 years old. Which, for a white guy is a challenge. But the skin on his face is perfect, tight and blemish free. As a guy running a vanity and rejuvenation clinic he makes a good impression as his own advertisement. He will tell you that he doesn’t sell any service he hasn’t tried on himself, which I can believe after talking to him. He also was trained directly by Dr. Charles Runnels, the forerunner of the Priapus shot and has the most Priapus shots performed in the state of Ohio currently as a personal record.
All of that being said, he is a straight talker. Unlike most doctors, he doesn’t spend most of the consultation talking down to you to in order to explain things. I shared my curvature concerns and he tells me that Dr. Charles Runnels, the forerunner of the procedure, gets a lot of his business from curvature correction patients and that he is doing the same exact procedure. Platelet Enriched Plasma shots primarily. For Peyronie’s he is perfecting use of the Gainswave type ultrasound treatment. The ultrasound device is more efficient for plaque disruption than the PRP shot is even though the shot has some merit in that application. The doctor, while well trained and with a lot of medical background, has a streak of DIY in him and wants to figure out Gainswave himself. Just a tidbit I found interesting.
He gave me some advice on a supplement I could take to lower my blood pressure. He spoke on cyclists and why cyclists in this country suffer from such small flaccids and sexual dysfunction. Pressure on the central nerve running on the underside of the crotch from the nose of the bicycle seat. If you’ve ever gotten off a bike and your butt been spitting sparks, it’s because of your bicycle seat shape. Other miscellaneous medical things will come up and he is more than willing to answer pretty random questions you may have. Honestly, pretty accommodating for a doctor.
Also, he has a patient who has agreed to let the doctor use his pictures which he will only show if you ask to see them. It’s a 2 month timelapse and the measurements are done while the patient is pressurized in the pump cylinder. His patient went from 7”Non bone pressed to 7.875” Non Bone Pressed in 2 months. The doctor will say 8” and I didn’t correct him but years of looking at dick pics makes me very particular. In my opinion pumping and measuring leaves a lot of room for error and fudging measurements but I remained silent, as his picture testimonial is optional and really he “sells” the shot based on his own experience.
Also, unlike most facilities he doesn’t want to take more before and after pictures and will tell you he doesn’t take pictures of penises except in that one instance. It was odd, his reaction and body language when explaining that. Like an old school guy who has a bit of the cultural homophobia in him but I couldn’t be sure. Or maybe he just doesn’t like penis pictures.
The Service Itself
To the PRP service itself, the shot is $1800 usually and includes a pump(which can be omitted to save $100 if you bring your own pump). If you agree to a consultation it is $50 and is deducted from the cost of the procedure if you decide to move forward with it. His application of the shot requires immediate use of the pump to disperse the Platelet Enriched Plasma as quickly as possible before it sets up. He will explain that the 60cc of blood used for collection is a medical standard for any PRP shot, whether it is in the knees, shoulders or penis. It doesn’t vary on body size, nor do the injection zones on the penis. Additionally, 60cc are withdrawn from you. The actual net injections are around 10cc after centrifugal separation of the plasma and activation of it. This is where the doctor will mention the quality of his centrifuge for netting the most usable plasma. I wager the location of his facility and the raw volume of business he gets in such an affluent area is why he can afford such equipment but I digress.
His experience with his customers is that 2 months will show most gains with the shot and he doesn’t do a shot again sooner than 6 weeks at the earliest. Bringing your own pump reduces the price of the procedure by $100 and additional shots will be discounted $200 because you’ll know what you’re dealing with and own the pump already.
He recommends using the pump between 10-15HG for 10-15 minutes per day. Once daily if you are only seeking function. Twice daily, spaced out by a large portion if possible, if you are seeking size as well. Oddly enough, he also encourages you to work up to as high a pressure as you can. Several of his patients have pumped at 25HG and many manage to reach 20HG in the regiment. The doctor personally has not gotten to 20HG, too uncomfortable he will admit trying but not reaching it. My experience with high pressure pumping will be key, if pumping at high pressure is important but I didn’t expect it to be quite so relevant. I spoke with him about the pump I built and how it is designed to cycle and he even emphasizes that just holding 10HG isn’t optimum or comfortable. That cycling pressure would be the better method and most do so simply because holding a high pressure for 10 minutes is simply impractical.
I suspect the gains his patients see are highly reliant on this level of pressure and the additional resilience and recovery abilities provided by the shot. His emphasis that the shot is “like a gym membership and you have to go to get the results” is a mantra you’ll hear several times in regard to pumping post treatment daily.
The cost for the procedure comes from his hiring of a nurse just for it. Collection of the blood must be done at an exact rate of 1cc per second. Then, the centrifuge needs to be utilized a certain way to separate the platelets optimally (He will tell you about his Magellan centrifuge and how there are only 8 of his model in the state and he is the only doctor with one in his office for his own use) and most importantly the application of the activated platelets has a 3 minute window. When you add the calcium solution to the platelets to trigger them to start working, they will coagulate and ‘set up’ within 3 minutes and so the injections need to be timely as does the application of vacuum pressure to disperse the plasma as well.
Apply very strong numbing cream. Wait 30 minutes for activation. Collect the blood, separate it, activate it. Two shots at the base. Two shots around the middle of the shaft. One shot behind the glans, underneath (looked like frenulum area where he pointed on the diagram). That is the way it is done. The glans injection is for sensitivity, nerve regeneration as well as size. This is a pointed thing for me as my sensitivity has always been one of my least favorite things and increasing it was the original reason I looked into the shot.
My Verdict?
Honestly, I was pretty well set on getting the shot before. That is the truth. Listening to him talk, I watched his face for most of it. I listened to his inflection. While I was likely going to accept his service regardless to learn more about the PRP shot…I was struck by something odd. Sincerity.
Him explaining his own experience, particularly with the Gainswave experiment he’s run on himself, it just rang true in a way that people selling things generally do not ring true. I believe the guy believes in what he does. It’s hard to describe but the conversation was more organic than a simple sales explanation is all I have to say.
I’ll get a PRP shot in the next couple weeks. They have a special for March where it is $1400 so maybe I’ll book one, or two. I plan on bringing in my Plateau Breaker for the procedure as it is a pumping device with a gauge. The doctor advises he also built an electric pumping device (I did not ask for particulars but I will on my procedure day just to compare notes) for his own use when he did his PRP shots on himself. Just seems like the kind of guy you can ask these questions to.
That’s my visit in a nutshell. Nothing fancy or official. Just my impressions and what I picked up after spending $50 to consult the doctor.
Newbie Theory!
…or just an FAQ made by Yours Truly that discusses things that newbies face and honestly…stuff I wish someone had told me when I started years ago. Could have saved me time and money. And, because I went through all my newbie advice posts and found out it’s about 8 pages of material at this point and only getting longer, I’ll be covering this stuff in sections FAQ style, snark included.
Newbies and Complex Theory- Cuz sometimes there’s a such thing as “too much thinking”
Q: Why do you say “Complex Theory” doesn’t matter to Newbies?
A: Mainly I say this because when you first start anything, the basics are all you are taught. This makes all information you use functional to you at that time. If when you first started driving someone explained to you the intricacies of a pneumatic system controlling your brakes but an electronic not cable ‘by wire’ system controlling your accelerator would it have changed how you drove the car or how it worked for you when you first start a car and drive it for yourself? Or would this matter as you make more informed car decisions down the road as far as a mechanic or vehicle choice? Or…never matter at all? I mean the car will get you to point B whether you understand how it works or not, as long as you understand how to operate it. Functional PE that you can do is all I’m getting at here; doesn’t need to be extensive theory and rocket science.
The reason I advise against “Complex Theory” usage is it distracts from the primary objective of getting your feet wet and helping you get a hands-on understanding of what PE is and what it can mean to you. I mean there are dozens of good articles on this topic and thousands of replies but it’s all based on abstracts until you actually get down and do it. Information overload can slow your progress easily. This is a thing I myself experienced.
Q: Why do you push START HERE ——-> NEWBIE ROUTINE <——- Important Newbie Info all the time?
A: Because most of the thinking that you will be doing for the rest of your PE career is done for you here. This routine is proven to provide a basic level of support for most people in their goals and brings gains to someone who hasn’t done PE before if done properly. There will be select exceptions to this and if you have problems feel free to ask here, that is why we are here, but this basic rubric gives you a place to start and us a place to begin to diagnose any issues that you may have because we know exactly what you are doing since we understand how this routine is laid out.
Any teacher will tell you that teaching the same material makes it easier for students to learn among themselves. And easier for any other teacher to help you learn, because of an innate understanding of the lesson plan. We can help you because we know what this routine usually will do and give. Others can help you because they’ve gained from it so when you post with issues it won’t just be veterans answering, it’ll be people just like you who know what you’re going through also. It is a large part of what our community is based upon. That is the real value of “The Newbie Routine.”
Also, real talk, if I had this resource when I first started my entire PE career would have been different. And this is the one real regret I have about the PE I, thoughtfulgold, have done over the years. It was done alone, solo research, and it cost me tons of time and money I could have saved with some advice and guidance. It can be done alone. If I could turn back the hands of time, I would not have.
Q: Why do you not recommend thoughtfulgold’s Penis Enlargement as “Scheduled Trauma” theory when you recommend “The Newbie Routine”?
A: It really doesn’t apply in the very beginning. Any sort of activity starts with the basics. Me recommending variety is not required. First, there is some variety in the Newbie Routine but a more poignant point is this: You don’t have any practical experience with PE yet. I can’t in good conscience recommend intermediate and advanced exercises yet, much less blending them into a routine. I can’t tell you to go buy expensive devices when you haven’t even really decided if you will stick with Penis Enlargement. I wouldn’t do those things. That would be deceitful, wasteful and I have no money to make off of you or motives in seeing you do more than you need to in the beginning.
Many guys don’t stick with PE and having you stuck with boxes of dusty devices and an injury from attempting advanced exercises at the behest of my advice would make me sad. I wouldn’t wish that upon anyone. Variety comes when you have a comfort level with PE enough to choose and experiment with exercises and devices on your own with an informed mind. You don’t have that comfort level and informed mind yet. You will, if you decide Penis Enlargement is a path you want to walk and you stick with it.
Newbies and Rest- There is rest for the wicked, actually. I use a memory foam mattress myself.
Q: Why are rest days important? Can’t we gain more by using our time more efficiently?
A: Rest is important because injury can result with too much training. Whether that’s lifting too much weight with your arms and shoulders, or tugging too hard or too many times on your penis when you perform your routine. You take days off to avoid aches, pains and dysfunction. Dysfunction like loss of morning wood primarily but anything that is outside of the norm in a bad way. An achy penis is not what you want so you do want to rest and regularly.
Q: What is the best rest day schedule?
A: The one that you can utilize for recovery enough to continue regularly performing your routine. Also, what you can fit into your life, being an adult that may be busy. The basic schemes for rest days are “x days on and x days off” There is 1 on 1 off, 2 on 1 off, up to 5 on and 2 off. And you can easily make up your own rest schedule or omit it entirely. But I do highly recommend you keep including it at least 2 times in a 7 day week, whichever way you see fit.
Personally, if you’re asking thoughtfulgold, I never do more than 3 on and I’ll take 2 off if I do. Generally 2 on 1 off. I’ve experimented with a lot of setups. I don’t like more consecutive days and I don’t have the time to commit consecutively that way. This is my personal experience.
Q: But I heard about “some other new routine that’s super intense and says I don’t need rest if I just am careful and keep pushing!”
A: Those routines are not for newbies. Anyone who says they are isn’t going to be there and help you if you rip your penis off trying them. And if you are willing to accept that risk, understand that most of us here do not have the knowledge of those routines, especially if it’s SUPER NEW AND SPECIAL (read: unknown theory and by someone who has no experience or standing in the community that no one has heard of) and thusly we won’t have the ability to offer much by way of experienced help using said routine.
Personally, I steer clear of these routines. They seem to come by once or twice yearly and have a miracle gainer or two and it seems to me that it is the Penis Enlargement Exercise and Device equivalent of Snake Oil. That is thoughtfulgold’s .02
Newbies and Devices- Take it from someone who has spent thousands on devices…
Q: Hey, I just started PE and I bought this device. Can I use it in my routine?
A: Yes. But I probably will not recommend it. Devices early on are not going to be as effective as your hands and learning about PE with a no cost approach. Marketing will snare more than one man with a sharp mind. It worked on me enough times that if I could trade my devices back I could have a brand new Kia Rio with the cold hard cash I’d have on hand. Do not buy devices in the Newbie Phase. I am sure they will still be for sale after you have experience under your belt. Additionally, your tastes and the device of the month may change by the time you’re ready to make an informed decision.
I can safely say this, having taken the device route myself in my Newbie days. If I hadn’t actually stayed diligent (and I nearly quit more than once after buying nearly $1000 worth the devices in the first 6 months) I would have had a heck of a heavy loss and it could have been avoided with learning manuals and being patient that way. That is just one example of Newbie Device purchasing that went more bad than good.
Q: But this device is optimized for exactly what my goals are! And I already bought it so…I don’t want to be wasteful, what do you think?
A: Answer is still “You can, but I’m going to recommend against it.” And I’ll tell you why, but you have to promise not to get mad. Okay, holding you to it. Read on below.
I highly doubt you know how that device works, not having worn it yet. I mean you know what the advertising said…but not much else, I bet. I also highly doubt that you understand the full range of injuries it can cause you, especially if you haven’t been hurt by something like this before. And I doubt, even more than the first two statements, that you want to find those things out the hard way. It is your money and you are an adult. I cannot, under any circumstances, tell you what you can and cannot do. But take the following from me and many of the others here who have experienced the same.
I have bought more than one device and hurt myself in the first few sessions and had to take a week off. Achy pubic bone, blister, dried and cracked skin on the glans…none of those things were on the boxes of the devices I bought. I also can bet they aren’t on the box or receipt of the device you have either. Just a liability waiver about how this is not intended for medical treatment of any disease (if that warning is even present). Also, that injury list is not exhaustive and this is exactly why we have Injuries and Treatments as a place that others can learn from the mistakes of the past. You can be a donor or a reader but hopefully you aren’t there because of a pressing injury at the time.
Q: Do you recommend ANY devices during the Newbie Phase?
A: Yes. A space heater. One that will heat the area you are in to a comfortably high temperature of around 75 degrees Fahrenheit. It is incredibly difficult, if not impossible to have a good routine in a cold room with cold hands. Heating the room is the best solution to this and I would highly recommend it. Plus, they aren’t typically expensive and are useful outside of PE and can be sold or given to a friend if you decide PE isn’t for you.
I learned about how heat was important one winter. The house wouldn’t get above 68 degrees, which isn’t cold but isn’t comfortable to be nude and handling your penis for an hour or more at a time. I ended up waiting until the season broke to continue PE. A real drag.
Newbies and Expectations- Cuz I been there, I know what this is like
Q: How often should we measure to check our progress?
A: Not a terrible amount. The ruler is one of the hardest parts of PE to overcome. To some it is the enemy. To some it is inspiration. However, to check your size daily is a bad habit because it is impossible to track gains every single day. If you space your measurement times you have a greater chance to see gains. If you are asking thoughtfulgold, I subscribe to every 4 to 6 weeks that I’ll actually measure my normal full erect size.
Q: When will I see gains?
A:I do not know. My crystal ball has been broken for some years now and if I had precognition mastered I’d probably be playing the lottery, not predicting a flowchart of your gains. *chuckles*
That said, I can’t know. Your body and mine are different. How you do your PE is indubitably different from how I did mine. This will make predicting gains impossible. However, if you’ve gone some months in “The Newbie Routine” with no gains, we can help you if you can tell us other things you’ve been experiencing, such as Erection Quality loss or Morning Wood frequency drops. Too many factors exist for anyone to make that prediction. We can just help you get there.
Some people gain much slower than others. These causes are not fully understood or even truly isolated as something we know a reason for. Some people will gain in 5 months what it will take 2 or 3 years for someone else to get. the key is diligence and safety. If you are truly paying attention to your Physiologic Indicators (PIs) to help growth! then you will keep them positive and stay on the path to gains. They will eventually come if you can listen to your penis and keep safe and consistent in your routine. You just have to keep the faith.
Q: Isn’t there a faster way? Surely after all this time you’ve found something effective for quick gains?
A: NO. Rushing the process is how you get hurt. There is no magical method. No “Holy Grail” device or technique. Just NO.
Newbies and Penis Enlargement Dangers- Cuz I ain’t your momma, but I care.
Q: What is “overtraining”?
A: Long story short, you doin’ too much. If you tell me your routine and halfway through reading it I stop to check a text message, your routine is probably too long. If you need additional pages to write your routine down, it may be too long. If you have a period during your routine where your nanites have to rebuild your penis, you probably are overtraining.
A more detailed look at overtraining is in essence when you scale your routine up faster than your penis is willing to accommodate you. An example, and substitute your exercise or device regiment of choice here, is if you do 100 jelqs a session. If you double that to 200 and notice weaker erections the following day, you are probably pushing it. If you triple it and see no morning wood or erections at all that day, you’ve overdone it. Overtraining is a lot of subjective, or how you as the end user will see it, point of view. I can only translate what you describe to me using my experience and my personal viewpoints. Overtraining is typically minor. Some guys don’t mind mild EQ drops after a hard workout day. I personally do. It is when you ignore a series of minor signs that things can become a more serious issue.
That said, if you experience total dysfunction like a long term loss of erections, painful erections or tingling, nerve damage, bleeding, skin discoloration, broken skin, dryness or sensitivity and pain that is serious and extended and other obvious signs of injury you not only have overtrained, you may need a doctor if symptoms persist. There are people who have trained through this.
This is not recommended. Stop all PE. Seek immediate guidance and medical attention..
Q: Can I sleep wearing my device?
A: NO. Not only is this answer NO but even in advanced stages I would recommend against this. Any device that exerts ANY level of force is simply not safe to wear while unconscious. You may experience injury and not wake to remedy the issue. This question is commonly posed to the wearing of a traction style extender like Size Genetics/X4 Labs/JES Extender/Male Edge/etc. and All Day Stretchers like the Xsleeve/Phallosan/etc. The answer is no. Wear those during your waking hours, even while doing things, but not when inattention can bring injury.
Additionally, your sleep cycle is when your body does its maintenance. Recovery from all the PE that you do is important during your sleep cycle. Give your body that time to repair itself. You can do PE tomorrow.
Q: My Penis Enlargement Rolemodel (insert some guru’s name here with crazy gains), he does this routine so I want to try it! How can I get to where he is doing this routine?
A: Honestly, that seems like a match made in Heaven for disaster. A lot of the routines you’ll see some veterans do are not safe for Newbies. Either they focus too much on intensity or duration or both. Most of this is simply going to have no positive effect for you at this point in your PE career. Also, remember that this routine they customized for themselves. To face PE challenges that they’ve run into. Where you are, you likely do not have to resort to those sort of methods yet.
I remember a guy who was hanging 25lbs for 25 minute sets like 6 times a day 4 days a week. When I tried hanging period, after about 14lbs I was not only done, I couldn’t hang for more than 3 sets of 10 minutes. The hanger was giving me problems and honestly, the turtling effect combined with my small flaccid size at that time, I couldn’t really properly attach the hanger. So it slipped off, I got hurt and I quit hanging for good.
I remind people that the best theory, that I myself practice and will practice until I retire from PE, is simple.
I use the least amount of force required for me to see additional gains. This reduces my injury risk and leaves more options open for me in the future when this method needs adjustment.
Q: My erections are getting weaker, what can I do?
My size seems to be going down, what are my options?
Why am I not having morning wood?
It seems like gains have stopped even though I’m not getting negative feedback from my penis, what’s wrong?
A: I would take a break from PE. All of these things have similar causes, usually a lack of rest. Or an injury that you may not be aware of. Or over-conditioning. Take a week or two, maybe a month off. PE will be here when you get back. Your health is more important and there is no reason to train to regain what you can get back with rest and recovery. Just because it doesn’t feel like it hurts doesn’t mean it isn’t doing you harm. If your body is telling you that something is bothering it, especially with that negative feedback, you need to listen to it. You only have one penis and it will tell you all about what you’re doing to it if it isn’t going well.
A very common danger for Newbies is the feeling that they can’t take a break from PE. That they have to get results now. I have been there and it has led to more foolish purchases and foolish routines than I can even recall. Do not fall into that trap of obsession or addiction with PE. It becomes hard to control and easy to get hurt. You can always wait till tomorrow. You have the knowledge and the power.
Tips and Tricks for the Sharp Newbie- …tips are good. No snark needed for that.
1. Do not be afraid to ask for help.- Even if it is to send your role model a Personal Message. If he doesn’t answer, oh well. Just make the effort. You may make a friend and gain good knowledge at the same time.
2. In your research, try to keep an open mind.- You will learn something different than what you first found in your research, it will probably be of use to you. But you have to keep your mind ready to accept new things.
3. Keep a paper journal of your PE routines.- Write down exactly what you did in each of your sets. Doesn’t matter if the numbers or times are odd. Just keep track of what it is you’ve done so you can know what it is you are capable of when you want to scale a routine up or down. You won’t always be able to get online. You may need to reference what you’ve done, how long ago, when and why. I recommend a 5-Star Notebook because they have plastic front covers and extra thick back covers so they take a beating and last a long time.
4. Try to only implement one PE theory or routine type at a time.- Some of us have vastly differing ideas on how to use equipment or manual exercises. Some of which will not mesh together. An example is my slow, steady, rest-oriented style versus some of the more aggressive high intensity, low duration types of routines.
5. Masturbate less.- It helps your gains come faster and stay longer. It will reduce the amount of PE you have to do to reach your goals.
6. Keep the faith. - There is no reward for being discouraged and quitting. No consolation in walking away. If you really want something, be it a Penis Enlargement goal or something else, you have to go after it no matter how hard it is or how long it takes. If it is what you want, you have to stick with it and you can’t do that without keeping the faith and pushing onward. This, I found from experience.
And…that wraps up what I would tell a Newbie. I mean, take what you will from that and add comments below. If I had access to even 1/4 of this information i don’t know where I’d be now. Hopefully it saves you time and effort, too.
Good luck!
I have decided to run through the data gathered here at Thunder’s Place to see just what can be expected from our hard earned science experiments here. Many members ask for estimates of what they can expect to gain. My goal was to crunch the data and see just what these numbers may be. Additionally, I went through the numbers to find the average starting statistics here at Thunder’s Place, just to see how they stacked up against the studies done around the world.
First let’s begin with the assumptions I made in order to cut down the false statistics found here on the website.
ASSUMPTIONS MADE:
Statistics were calculated for two groups. A group of only gainers, and a group that contained everyone within the reasonable range of statistics. In addition to these two groups, statistics for inches and centimeters are provided.
Resulting Statistics can be found below:
The first thing that stands out to me when examining the data, is the clear tendency towards rounding to the nearest quarter/half/whole inch that comes with self-reported statistics. The tendency to round can mess with the accuracy of statistics, but it is assumed here that the rounding is reasonable and not excessive. The same quarter/half/whole inch grid can be seen on the centimeter graph as well. The scatter plots also indicate that the vast majority of users fall between 5 and 7 inches starting length (approx. 13.5 to 18.5 centimeters) and between 4.5 and 5.5 inches of girth (approx. 11.5 to 14 cm). The is confirmed by the averages listed above. Additionally, below the distribution of starting statistics can be seen in an easier to read format. The X axes of each graph are in the units listed in the graph title, while the Y axes are number of users falling into each category.
Average Length Gain of Gainers: 0.7350 in - 1.8670 cm
Standard Deviation: 0.5234 in - 1.3296 cm
Average Girth Gain of Gainers: 0.4057 in - 1.0305 cm
Standard Deviation: 0.3333 in - 0.8465 cm
The above two graphs show the distribution of length and girth gains for all members who fell within the reasonable statistics range. As is quite apparent, the majority of gains occurred between 0 and 1 inch of BP Length (approx. 0 and 2.5 cm) and between 0 and 0.5 inches of Mid Shaft Girth (approx. 0 and 1 cm). We can again see the tendency to round gains towards the nearest quarter/half/whole inch amongst users, as again the gains statistics line up nicely along the grid lines. We can see the distribution of the gains statistics appears in the shape of a comet, with the majority of data point appearing close to the origin at 0 gains in either dimension, and the data points becoming more sparse as they move away from the origin, especially in the positive direction of both axes.
Something to notice about those who lost size in a penis dimension: these users are in the minority of the statistics by a wide margin. Additionally, no member reported losing both length and girth, and those that lost in one dimension commonly gained in the other dimension. Below the distribution of gains can be seen. These distributions show the distribution of those who gained, and does not include the small portion of users who reported negative gains.
Gain Distribution
Now what do all of these numbers mean? The standard deviation of each average presented above show how likely an individual is to deviate from the statistical average. The way the standard deviation works is as such: 68% of users were within 1 standard deviation of the indicated measurement, 95% of them were within 2 standard deviations, and 99.7% of them were within 3 standard deviations of the average.
We can also see that when including decreases in size between first and last measurements, the standard deviation for gains is greater than the average gain. This means that Thunder’s Place gain statistics are highly erratic, ie. they vary greatly. However, when considering only those who experienced gains, the standard deviations, as expected, fall below the value of the average gain. Despite this, they still remain a significant percentage of the average gain, indicating a flatter bell curve distribution of gains. This means that while a good portion of users can expect gains near that average number, the gains of each user will obviously vary widely from individual to individual.
What about the effect your starting size has on your ability to gain? Below are four graphs that show the distribution between a starting dimension of each member, and the gains experienced by that member in the corresponding dimension. This was done in both inches and centimeters, as usual.
The above four graphs reveal some interesting trends of growth here at Thunder’s Place. Commonly it is thought that a smaller starting size allows for greater gains, and this can be seen easily on the length graphs. These graphs exhibit a clearly triangular shape, indicating that greater gains were experienced by those who started on the lower end of sizes. As one moves rightward across the x-axis of starting size, it can be seen that the BPEL length gains drop off. However, a different trend is seen in the girth department. The decreasing triangle clearly seen in the length graphs is much less visible in the girth graphs. In fact, these girth graphs exhibit a much flatter shape overall. For the most part it appears that no matter the starting size, a 0.5 inch gain in girth (approx. 1.3 centimeters) is reasonable for members. There is a small trend towards smaller starting girths experiencing greater girth gains, but it is much less apparent than in the length gain graphs.
A positive result of the study reveals that a very high proportion of the users here at Thunder’s Place report positive gains. I think we may be onto something here at Thunder’s :shrug:
Summaries of the averages of starting stats, gain stats, and percentage of users who gained can all be found below in easier to read tables as attachments.
Hopefully you all find this helpful!
-Statistics Compiled on the 25th of February, 2016-
We’ve received what seems a rather generic cease and desist letter from Elliott Benjamin of Parker Mills LLP representing Dr. James Elist in relation to My Elist Implant Experience posted by txhog.
It’s sometimes hard to figure out what a lawyer is trying to say, when they are writing a letter. Very kindly, Ken White of Popehat has taken the time to write a rather eloquent summary of some of the legal points.
Popehat Signal: Urologist Threatens Penis-Enhancement Forum
I would encourage you to share this URL in a responsible manner: places it would appreciated, rather than linking this thread. It might help us retain some pro bono legal representation in California. We are a small non-profit community, getting into a legal spat with Dr. Elist, is beyond our means.
<edit>David Casey and Brian Lynch of Lynch Legal Consulting offered to help us out within about 5 minutes of Ken’s posts, so we owe them a lot of thanks. </edit>
The rest of this thread is asking for help, if you can provide it.
The letter makes several demands:
- you immediately remove the negative content posted by your member “txhog”, together with all related threads and postings, from the Website
- thundersplace.org immediately cease and desist from any further derogatory postings of any kind about Dr. Elist,
- you immediately provide us with the name and contact information of the user posting such disparaging comments, and
- you post an announcement in a conspicuous place on the Website acknowledging that the defamatory statements have been removed due to your inability to verify their accuracy.
It is a conundrum. It asks us to divulge information which we don’t have and apologise for the opinions of a member.
If you can help us with pro bono legal work in California either contact us or (especially if you need plausible deniability) Ken White of popehat. His contact details are on his site.
The full letter is on the popehat site.
One of the inevitable side-effects of PE is darkening or discolouration of the penis. But it doesn’t have to be that way!
There are posts scattered around Thunder’s Place on the ‘firegoat roll’ but no definitive thread, so here it is; the best and simplest way to avoid discolouration in the first place, or to slowly reverse it if you already have it. It is of course better not to let it build up in the first place!
How to do a firegoat roll:
Imagine you’ve just washed your hands and are using one of those hot air hand dryers; you rub your hands together with the fingers parallel to each other, at the same sort of speed you would count to 10 at. Try counting to 10 while rubbing your palms together now!
Now place your penis between your palms and do the same. As a starting point for pressure when doing the firegoat roll, imagine rolling a piece of dough or pastry into a cylinder; you don’t want to roll too fast or slow, and you certainly don’t want to squash the dough flat or make no impression on it at all. Use that as a starting point and vary speed and force around it. Different levels of erection will require different speeds and force. You’ll quickly get a feel for the right speed and pressure with a bit of practice.
I find it’s best to do a few jelqs first and then do firegoat rolls at around 50% erection - 40-60% is good. It’s possible to get results at any erection level from flaccid to about 75%. Although you can do them flaccid, they work better with some erection and after some jelqs first. I’m keeping it simple so won’t explain why the jelqs help, but they do.
How far round should you rotate your penis?
You will automatically do it the right amount, trust me. The more you twist the harder it is to twist further. And if it’s fairly flaccid and you are going at a sensible speed, you won’t do any damage anyway. You are not trying to start a fire with it!
How long should you do it for?
Keep going until discolouration disappears. Some guys do it for 30 seconds and it’s enough. Some guys do it for 3-5 minutes. If you prefer you can do 30 seconds, wait a few seconds then do another 30 seconds and repeat as necessary. If you’ve had a heavy session, there may still be a bit of redness that doesn’t completely go. If you get to a point where you are not making further improvement, that’s the time to stop. You can always do a few quick flaccid ones throughout the day when you go for a pee.
If you have existing discolouration you are trying to get rid of, you can do a minute or two of jelqs then some rolls several times a day. It may take a while, but most people get results from them. To get rid of existing discolouration, the jelqs before rolling become much more important.
The reasoning:
Post PE discolouration is primarily a histologic change caused by vasopermeability under pressure in the case of fairly light sustained PE, or in more ‘aggressive’ PE, by focal hemorrhage in the upper dermis (red spots), and (simple version) the firegoat roll works by manually squeezing the congested blood etc. out of the tissues. The sooner the waste is removed the sooner fresh nutrients can be delivered to the tissue to aid in repair, so in fact the firegoat roll does much more than just help with discoloration
Although it bears my name, I make no claim to inventing the firegoat roll – I’m sure lots of guys were doing it long before I popularised it, but no one was talking about it, or specifically the fact that it combats discolouration.
It’s been around a long time now and the name gets used on various other PE sites
Everyone who is concerned about discolouration can quickly and easily benefit from it. Whether you are a newbie or a vet, it can be added to any routine.
Someone asked me in a PM what insights and wisdom I could share from years on this forum. It’s not a carefully crafted response, it’s just thrown at the page, but for anyone who might benefit, this was my response:
It would be easy to boil it down to a few simple (if slightly cryptic) statements and as I’m still short of time the first things that come to mind are doubtlessly the most important/oft said:
Heat makes the difference between gaining quickly or slowly for some guys, or between gaining slowly instead or not at all for others.
You have to be consistent. X number of days a week, no sporadic week on week off, taking long breaks etc., unless you are injured or on holiday. Don’t be afraid of taking time off, but don’t do it out of laziness!
Every routine should include some jelqing for penis health. It stretches the tunica layers in both directions, helps fluid exchange between tissue layers, brings fresh oxygenated blood into the penis etc.
There are only 2 variables in PE: loading/force/resistance/vacuum etc. AND time. You need to use ‘enough’ of the former, but time i.e. length of PE sessions, is more important than the force used. Longer, lighter sessions work; short intense sessions toughen up the tissues to loading and bring gains to a halt, making it harder to gain from anything in the future (don’t forget tissue memory - even after a long lay-off tissues that have been over ‘toughened’ in the past will gain strength, not length quickly again!). Clamping too early in your PE ‘career’ is the worst contributor to this, as is stretching too hard or erect jelqing, especially without heat.
In a fully erect penis the tunica layers are ‘locked up’ and require a great deal of force to be moved further. In a slightly less erect penis the tunica layers will ‘give’ more easily.
Having one or 2 sessions a week when you have lots of time and can do a fairly intensive session and push your penis to ‘new heights’, followed by gentler recovery sessions the rest of the week that just take your penis to full expansion (e.g. jelqing, edging) without forcing it, are much better than over or under-working your penis every day.
‘Recovery days’ don’t necessarily mean no PE, but you need at least one or 2 days a week of proper rest to avoid injuries creeping up on you.
Every routine should include firegoat rolls, unless you like a darker coloured penis….
Rome wasn’t built in a day. There are no magic methods or perfect routines.
The ideal penis size for a varied sex life (good blowjobs, different positions, grinding, pounding, anal if you like it etc.) is 7.6” BPEL x 5.6” Mid Girth. People who have a wife can adjust it to suit her. People who just jack off to porn can go for any size they want :)
Those are the first things that come to mind. If I had more time I’d have probably worded them better, or added lots of other stuff, but those are the basics.
Hope that helps.
When you’ve measured your penis in the past, you’ve probably placed the ruler at the base of your penis and read the figure at you glans. We call that Non-Bone Pressed (NBP). Then maybe you’ve put the ruler at the side of your penis and found the measurement was larger. If you’re in a porn movie you measure underneath, from the balls to maximise the measurement.
This is great but it’s not really useful to us as people wanting to track progress for the purposes of penis enlargement. We need a method that is repeatable and we aren’t interested in size. We are interested in change in size, so we try to measure for consistency. For length, this means we use a Bone Pressed (BP) measurement, where the bottom of the ruler is pressed into the fixed point that is the pubic bone.
There are two ways to measure bone pressed: from the side or from the top.
Though measuring from from the side has the advantage of it being easier to locate the bone as there is just skin and very little fat in the way, rather than skin, fat and ligaments, measuring from the top is preferable. It may measure shorter but it has the advantage that the bone across the top is fairly straight whereas down the side curves back as you go lower.
To measure take a ruler, push hard into the bone above the penis and measure the distance to the glans. It’s best to have a ruler where zero is the end of the ruler. It’s often easier if the ruler is placed with one of the measuring sides along the shaft, rather than flat along the shaft.
The point of the Bone pressed measurement is to create a solid measurement, so you must be at your highest erection level. A small variation from your highest might result in differing measurements and you are attempting measuring gains, not how good an erection you have.
The Perfect Bone Pressed Erect Length (BPEL) Measurement
Note: Always push the penis to the ruler, the curve of your penis may change over time.
An alternative is to measure bone pressed flaccid stretch length (BPFSL), where you push to the bone again and this time pull your flaccid penis out as far as possible. Some people find this produces a more easily repeatable measurement.
Do the erect measurement again but this time don’t push to the bone simply rest the end of the ruler at the base of the penis. This is the non bone pressed erect length (NBPEL) mentioned at the start. It’s a “for your information” measurement rather than being useful for PE.
Measuring Girth
The Perfect Erect Girth (EG) Measurement
You need to leave 2 days from your last PE session before measuring or you will be measuring some temporary effects left over from your sessions.
It’s also worth taking pictures. Having written measurements is one thing but having a picture to compare makes a lot of difference too.
This thread uses images from the original French version by Graal.
I wanted to take a minute to share my experience with Dr. Elist. I will let you know up front that this is going to be a long post. It is a play-by-play of my experience with pictures. I hope that others appreciate it and find it helpful.
Let me first say that my initial impression of Dr. Elist was that he is a very kind and caring surgeon. At times he can seem rushed, but at the same time it was nice that every time I spoke with him he remembered who I was.
When I began calling and emailing Dr. Elist, inquiring about the penile implant he was very enthusiastic about telling me all the great things about the silicone implant. After spending a lot of time talking with him over several occasions I was convinced that this was the way to go, I scheduled the surgery. I have to admit that I was extremely excited and nervous at the same time. This was a huge decision and a giant leap of faith.
So I hop on a plane and I fly to LA and meet Dr. Elist at his office. This was my first time to actually meet him face to face. I filled out my paper work, paid the remainder of the surgery and Dr. Elist drove me to the surgery center. Everyone that worked in his office and the surgery center was extremely friendly. Everyone made me feel comfortable and I not at all like I was weird for being there, even though they all knew my reason.
Waking from surgery I could tell that my penis was certainly a lot bigger, even though it was wrapped in bandages. I was in a little pain, but nothing unbearable. Dr. Elist picked me up and dropped me off at a Barnes and Noble of all places for a while (where I ended up falling asleep). He did so because he did not tell me that I had to have someone with me to drive me to the hotel and would not let me take a cab. He then came back and drove me to the hotel.
All was well. I flew home the next day. There was pain, but it was well controlled by the meds (Tylenol 3). The night time erections were the worst part. I was getting up every 30 minutes, walking it off and back to sleep for another 30 min. I have a fairly high pain tolerance, but these things were the worst pain I have ever felt in my life. Intense pain does not even describe it.
I will post some of the pictures that I emailed to Dr. Elist in my updates to him. I won’t include every single picture I sent him, but I will include pictures from every batch I sent. But as I can only post five pictures at a time, each day will have to be a new post.
Within the first week, the pain had greatly decreased, still painful night time erections, though. I was very bruised and swollen, but Dr. Elist assured me that all was well, it was normal and just to keep it wrapped.
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By day 10 the swelling had gone down a lot. My scrotum was still very tender and bruised, but I was told that it would go away and was natural after a surgery like this. I was concerned that my penis was taking a downward curve and that it could not be lifted due to being stiff and the base. Dr. Elist said that it would be fine and I just needed to wait out the 6-8 weeks for healing time.
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At day 14 things were going well. I was still concerned about the downward curve my penis was taking on, but I was waiting as Dr. Elist instructed. My skin was a little dry from the constant wrapping, still a little dull pain in the scrotum and a little residual bruising.
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After this, Dr. Elist told me that I could stop wrapping at night, but continue wrapping during the day. I was glad to hear that. However, on the morning of day 16 I woke to a large blood stain on my sheets. I told Dr. Elist about this and that it came from behind the glans. Dr. Elist said that I had more than likely popped a stitch in my sleep. He told me not to worry and apply neosporin to the spot daily and to go back to wrapping all the time. On day 19 I sent him an email explaining that when I remove the wrap and dressing it begins to bleed. I also told him that I could see something coming through (you can see it in the photos) and I was told that it was simply fat and skin that was visible because of the tear. I was to continue wrapping and applying neosporin and it would heal on its own.
At this time, Dr. Elist was overseas and had passed me along to another doctor that was to watch over my situation while he was away. This doctor, although very kind, was not very helpful, telling me that I needed to hang in there until Dr. Elist made it back. When he came back he told me that I needed to keep my penis wrapped for 72 hours. That puts me at day 28. After removing the wrap and dressing, things appeared like they were on the right track. You could still faintly see the “skin and fat” but it looked a lot better.
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Back to wrapping for 72 hours, changing the wrap and then another 72 hours. This put me at day 33. I found that when cleaning, if I moved the glans the slightest little bit, it would begin to bleed again. I could not tell exactly where it was coming from, but I knew that it was under the glans in the little “channel” formed by the implant. Of course my skin was very dry due to all the wrapping, but I just applied moisturizer as directed by Dr. Elist.
After another 72 hours of being wrapped, things looked decent. I tried my absolute best not to move the glans because I did not want to risk opening anything that was healing. I of course still had a lot of dry skin, and was simply directed to continue the application of neosporin behind the glas and moisturizer on the shaft. I was instructed from this point to wrap for 48 hours.
On day 40 things took a turn. When I removed the wrap, my penis began weeping a light red or orange liquid and you can see something coming through the skin. There was a little swelling and the downward curve had become more prominent, with the glans and penis sitting “below” the implant. At this point I had been wrapping for 40 days straight, with the exception of the one night and to change the wrap.
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On day 42 while changing the wrap and dressing I took close up pictures of what was coming through my skin. Dr. Elist told me not to worry, that it was cologen and nothing to worry about. Although I had my doubts and thought “There is no way that is collogen. You can clearly see a geometric patter!” To me it looked like the clear flexible tubing that has mesh embedded for strength, but I did not know what collogen looked like. At this point all I can do is trust my doctor.
On day 44 it looked like things were moving in the right direction. The mess seemed smaller and that it might actually heal. When I removed the dressing there was a spot (about the size of a pencil eraser) of fluid that did not appear to be blood. It was much too light. Keeping my penis firmly wrapped for so long had caused some fluid retention in my glans. Of course my skin was still dry and flakey.
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After another 48 hours I removed the wrap and to my surprise there was no blood or fluid on the dressing. You could however, still the “thing” coming through. Dr. Elist told me to apply a lot of moisturizer to the skin and neosporin to the incision. He said that healing looks good, but is not complete (ya think?) and that it should be all healed in a few days. That was music to my ears. I only had a few more days of this and everything would be good.
Dr. Elist instructed me to wrap behind the glans and part of the way down, but to leave the remainder of the penis unwrapped. The skin that was unwrapped began looking a lot better and that part filled out to 6.5” around. When the wrap was removed, fluid would weep from behind the glans.
At this point Dr. Elist told me that he want me to try wrapping loosely, just tight enough to keep the dressing in place. He said that he thinks I am getting fluid retention in my glans, which I thought was weird because I stated that to him days earlier. I used the neosporin and wrapped loosely as instructed. On the next day as I was changing the wrap/dressing, the “thing” was more noticable. The swelling of the glans did go down some, but the amount of drainage greatly increased. If you put any pressure at all on the shaft more and more fluid would come out, sometimes like a steady stream, and would make a sound that sort of sounded like loose suction. I can’t describe it very well, but I will never forget what it sounded like. Letting my penis hang on its own would also allow more drainage. It had also developed a bulge on the side of my penis. It looked like the implant was folded or bent.
That day Dr. Elist said that he needed to see me back at his office. There was no rush, he just wanted me to start looking at making arrangements. On day 54 even more was coming through. The tear was appearing to increase in size instead of decrease. There was a great deal of drainage as well. This time it was a lot darker, instead of the light color it had been. Dr. Elist wanted me to go to a urologist in my town and have a culture done to make sure there was no infection. He said that he would speak with him and let him know what was going on. If everything was good and there was no infection he would have me come back and would stitch the implant back in place.
The next day was a little worse. It looked like the tear was getting bigger and the skin was getting thinner. There was major drainage. When the wrap was not on the stuff would just keep coming. It was the same dark color, maybe a little darker. Even putting pressure on my lower abdomen would make more come out.
Two days later was my appointment with the urologist here. I had never had a reason to see a urologist but he was very nice, late 30s, personable, etc. However, I do not think I have ever been more embarrassed in my life. Completely mortified. The doctor brought me into the room along with a couple of nurses. He was expecting an older man because Dr. Elist told him that I had a penile implant. I am far from that. He had me lay on the table and asked me to move the gown and explain what was the problem. I just looked at him, then at the two young nurses, then back to him. He sat down next to me and said “It’s ok. I can have one of the nurses leave, but I have to keep one of them.” I nodded and one of them left. I moved my gown and he took the wrap off. When he did fluid poured out and out and out. I just covered my face. When he couldn’t get any more fluid to come out he inserted a long q-tip in the hole quite a ways down my shaft. He didnt have to squeeze or force it in, there was plenty of room between my penis and the implant. He re-wrapped my penis and said that he would call Dr. Elist to discuss things.
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The doctors office called me back a few days later and told me that there was no infection, which was very good news. I was still draining fluid and still had the open cut behind the glans. I forgot to mention that my erection was also an inch shorter than before surgery, and my flaccid length had remained unchanged.
On day 66 another corner of the implant started poking through. Up to this point it was just the left corner of the right half of the implant. Now it was both. I am sorry, I do not have a picture of it.
Two days later I was back in Dr. Elist’s office. It was actually very tough to make arrangements; not on his part or mine, but this was booking flights last minute is tough. When Dr. Elist examined the situation he said that there was no way he could safely suture the implant back in place. There was too much damage to the skin and the sutures would just rip out again. He removed the implant on an exam table in his office. He told me there would be no charge for the removal. That was generous of him, don’t you think? It felt good to have it out, but it also felt like defeat.
Here I had spent thousands of dollars to get a bigger penis only to go through 2 months of hell. Dr. Elist said that I should not worry, that I would get a full refund and he would get a refund from the manufacturer. He told me that we would let everything heal and try it again down the road if I wanted. Hell no.
Two days later my penis had severe retraction. It became a nub.
Roughly one month later the incision had healed nicely. I was still severely retracted, however, and very nervous. At this point all I want to do is get back to my starting size.
A month later I had regained most of my flaccid length, but there was an adhesion (Dr. Elist’s term) on the shaft that kept my skin from moving forward. I was also 2” shorter erect than prior to surgery. At the two month mark after removal I had regained all of my flaccid length, but no erect length. After the stitches were good and healed, Dr. Elist placed me on a pumping schedule with a pump that he provided. By mid-July I had gained some of my erect length back, but was still 1.5” shorter. At least it was a move in the right direction. My penis had also taken a distinct upward curve. Before I was straight as a board. It didn’t go left, right, up or down at all. Now it curves upward at mid-shaft.
There was a large firm mass at the base of my penis. I had to fly back to him and he said that they would inject it with kenalog and lidocain and that would make it go away. He gave me a shot in his office and showed me what to do. He then provided me with the drugs and supplies to do as he did at home four times. It did shrink whatever was there, but there is still some tightness and a small “something” about the size of a pea.
As it stands now 1.5 years after surgery, my flaccid length and girth are same as before, my erect girth is about .25” bigger and my erect length is between 1-1.5” shorter.
When all of this started, Dr. Elist asked me that I not share these photos with anyone and to only discuss this with him. He told me that he would take care of everything and I would be fine. I reminded him again that he told me I would get a refund, but he said that he will not give me a refund. That made me very mad and sad at the same time because I have stood by him through this whole thing, trusting him that what he says is good and true. Now I am out several thousand dollars for the procedure, plus thousands in airfare, and I have a shorter penis than I started with.
I am tired of being silent about my experience. I simply want people to know that there are potentially very bad outcomes from surgery. Please think long and hard before going into something like this. I learned my lesson the hard way.
I call this one the Pipe Stretcher. It is a combination of the best elements of what I have built in the past combined with improvements that I felt some of my other designs where lacking. I worked on it with the mindset of it being the last design I may ever make, so it probably is my swan song in the DIY extender game, as I have reached the goals I had hoped to for length and just don’t PE for length any longer. In a nutshell, this is my best attempt to design a easy to build a quality extender from materials you can find at most home building stores. I’ve put a lot of work into documenting the creation process with words as well as pictures because I do not know how quickly I will be able to respond to individual questions. Life has been a struggle lately… but I digress. To the Pipe Stretcher!
It makes use of a “quick noose” system that I have used in past designs. Yes it’s a noose, but it’s not a traditional noose, don’t worry, we will get in to that later. Unlike commercial extenders, this extender is not intended in any way to be hidden beneath clothing. That is for two reasons, one, I believe PE should be closely monitored at all times and secondly, due to the do it yourself nature of the project, easy to find and easy to build with materials can’t compete with custom molded plastic parts for size resulting in a larger end result. That, and nothing in my wardrobe could conceal even the smallest sized extender (except for this) so I scratched that off the list of things to worry about years ago.
Below is the construction tutorial, followed by the calibration, sizing and use of the device. Sorry, I do not have a budget price of what it will cost since I had a lot of the materials around from other projects but I purchased everything I used from the Home Depot, and most of the materials are found in the plumbing section.
The biggest improvements from previous designs are:
After much browsing around about pumping it has become clear to me that while many members understand the mechanics of pumping, many (possibly most) do not. I was writing this post as part of a larger project designed to illustrate how connective tissue is permanently elongated/expanded in the body, which stretching modalities work best to achieve it, and the misconceptions we often have about the process. This ongoing project is based on research and empirical evidence (not specifically regarding the penis, of course, but connective tissue as a whole), and originally I was going to include what I am about to post here as a section regarding pumping. As it worked out I could not find any research examining the effect of vacuum on permanent deformation of tissue. In fact, most research involving tissue and applied vacuums considered closing wounds faster and more efficiently - interesting, but far from our purposes here. So, without finding any research, all I was left with was the application of some physical laws, creating a theoretical model for the effect of pumping. I do believe this theory is sound because it is completely based on physical laws and principles that are, I feel, correctly applied. I hope this can help shed some light on how pumping actually works and the reasons why pumping with warm water in the cylinder is probably preferable.
Water pumping is usually considered superior due to two properties of the water used to fill pump cylinders:
1) The water is warm – the benefits of heat are basically a given when talking about tissue expansion/elongation/deformation. So many here at Thunders have discussed this and presented evidence backing it up that now the bottom line is simply: heat works, use it. In terms of expansion, heat allows it to happen more readily and makes the whole process safer. That is really all I’ll say about heat here as a full discussion of heat will be beyond the scope of what I am trying to show here. Any further mention of heat will merely be to supplement my analysis of the second property of water used to pump.
2) The kinetics and attraction of water molecules in the liquid state (what most people here are talking about when they say, “Water works better because it is incompressible”) – this will be the focus of my analysis here. The basic fluid dynamics of water (or any inert liquid, really) makes it an ideal pumping medium. Hopefully this will explain why and put some misconceptions to rest. So without further ado, the physics of water pumping:
I’d like to start with a common misconception: vacuum pressure is vacuum pressure, regardless of the pumping medium. This idea is both true and false, but what is true about it is rather irrelevant. The idea that “pressure is pressure is pressure” is based on Pascal’s Law which states that wherever pressure is measured in a system it will be equal if the system is closed and the fluid (either liquid or gas) within is at rest. Thus, it can be concluded from this that as far as the measurement of pressure goes, pressure is pressure. As pressure is defined as the force exerted equally in all directions against the walls of a system, it doesn’t even matter whether the system is filled completely with a liquid or gas, pressure will still be equal throughout. Even though gasses are very compressible and liquids are almost completely incompressible, the only difference will be that a much smaller volume of liquid will need to be evacuated from the system to create a similar level of vacuum when compared to gas.
The important point to make to the pumper - where pressure is not simply pressure - has nothing to do with measuring pressure, but instead has to do with the way these two fluids (air and water) each behave kinetically at the molecular level causing them to manifest very different properties under a vacuum. It would still be nice, however, to base the discussion on something that can be measured so that we can at least see something roughly quantifiable. So if pressure is not a good measurement, what is another measurement of vacuum quality that will work? We need to examine Mean Free Path (MFP), a common measure of vacuum quality in physics and aerodynamics.
Mean free path is essentially the distance one particle of a fluid must travel, on average, before encountering another particle. This measurement is closely related to density, but takes into account some other factors which make it more useful in analyzing vacuums, namely temperature/excitation (the speed at which particles are moving at), particle size, and the size and shape of the system. MFP is seldom used when speaking about liquid fluids as their MFP is so low it can generally be considered to be zero, the particles are always touching or extremely close. This, however, definitely is not the case with gaseous fluids. As a partial vacuum is created in a closed system filled with a gas by evacuating some of the gas molecules, fewer and fewer molecules are left behind, the average spaces between them become greater (lower density), and the distance each individual particle must travel in order to encounter another particle becomes greater (higher MFP). To give you an idea of how widely the MFP of partial vacuums filled with gasses can vary check out this example: the MFP at low vacuums (like in our air pump cylinders) can be measured in nanometers, while the MFP in the near-perfect vacuum of deep space is larger than the diameter of many planets. The point here is that gasses will always expand to fit their container no matter how low this brings their density or by how much it reduces their particle interactions (MFP-derived). Liquids, on the other hand, will retain their density and volume, and have a mostly constant, near-zero MFP in a vacuum – they will be in a constant state of particle interaction.
This constant, near-zero MFP of water is due to the molecular attraction and molecular interaction of water. When water freezes (becomes a solid) there are strong attractions between the molecules, they form an orderly lattice structure and just sit there and oscillate a bit – no moving around one another. As energy is applied to the ice and it begins to melt, the molecules begin moving enough to break free of the lattice structure and gain the ability to move around each other in a disorderly pattern, but the molecular attraction remains strong enough to hold the water molecules very close together, allowing almost no compression or expansion and keeping the MFP at basically zero. Hence, liquids take on the shape of their container (molecules can “flow over” one another) but do not expand to fill it (strong molecular attraction), while gasses do both.
The molecular attraction of liquid water is so strong that as a partial vacuum is created in a closed system filled with water the MFP will remain nearly zero, increasing only imperceptibly with the vacuum level, until the vacuum level becomes strong enough to begin overcoming the molecular attractions completely, changing the liquid water into water vapor (i.e. as the vacuum level rises, the vapor pressure of the water equals than exceeds the ambient pressure of the system, to put it in physics terms). So, if you have water in a closed system at room temperature and steadily increase the vacuum level in the system, the water will expand only an imperceptible amount until it begins to boil at room temperature as it vaporizes into a gas. This relationship is also why water boils at a lower temperature at higher elevations where atmospheric pressure is lower. I bring this up to show that at no vacuum we are likely to use while pumping, will water lose its molecular cohesion and desirable properties.
Water’s inability to appreciably expand is what makes it such an ideal pumping medium. To illustrate this, let’s take a look at how penile expansion happens when you pump with only air filling the cylinder. First, however, we need to dismiss another misconception. When pumpers talk about vacuums they like to talk about “pulling” the penis into an expanded state, like thousands of little hands grabbing and pulling out laterally. Though this language is perhaps useful in general discussion, it is not the true pathway which causes expansion. In reality, expansion takes place when pressure within the penis (standard atmospheric pressure) becomes greater than the pressure in the tube. The higher pressure in the penis pushes outward but encounters less resistance, causing expansion. That is, when a vacuum is created around the penis, fluid is hydraulically pushed into the penis, the expansion force is both pushing and internal. This is in accordance with Bernoulli’s Principle. Understanding this, we can examine the mechanics of pumping with air:
1) As the partial vacuum is created, fluid is pushed into the penis through the most immediately available pathway: blood from the central cavernosal arteries floods the erectile chambers. The maximum quick expansion of the erectile chambers, however, is dictated by the elastic expansion range of the tunica albuginea. That is, the penis expands until a maximally erect state is achieved. This happens very quickly as the vacuum is raised higher and higher. Beyond this point (maximum elastic stretch of the tunica), the erectile chambers of the penis will no longer expand so readily, so fluid begins to be pushed into other areas as well.
2) If a vacuum still exists around the penis, the penis will continue to expand. The expansion, however, cannot come from simply filling the erectile chambers with more and more blood due to the resistance of the tunica. So where does the extra fluid come from? Well, if enough expansion force is being exerted constantly on the tunica, the tunica will undergo viscoelastic creep, continuing to slowly expand and allowing more blood into the erectile chambers. If you are able to make permanent gains from pumping, this is probably the mechanism that will prompt the necessary tissue remodeling. Also during this time period, lymph and other fluids are able to seep into and fill the soft tissues between the tunica and skin, creating further – and usually undesirable – expansion. This is what is generally referred to as fluid retention. Because these other fluids must cross semi-permeable membranes to fill the penile tissues, their accumulation is more difficult to achieve at a fast rate and is therefore usually associated with vacuums that are too high and spending too long in the cylinder in a single stretch.
Note: both of these processes are happening simultaneously, but the proportion of fluid retention per unit time will increase greatly after the elastic threshold of the tunica is met and the penis is allowed to continue expanding.
Knowing the mechanical process, what is it about water that makes it so much more desirable as a pumping medium? It is primarily its almost complete inability to compress or expand, as illustrated in the discussion of MFP, which makes it ideal for maximizing the desirable mechanics of pumping.
When air pumping, the penis will expand outward, encountering only a soft, extremely compressible “cushion” of air. After achieving a fully erect state, the vacuum will continue to cause the penis to expand into this cushion, compressing the gas and reducing the pressure differential. This continued expansion, depending on the relative strength of the tunica, will likely be caused by a high proportion of fluid retention/inflow in the soft tissues between the tunica and skin.
When water pumping, on the other hand, the penis will expand outward to a fully erect state, and encounter an incompressible “wall” of water. This wall essentially stops further expansion from happening at an unrestricted rate. If not overzealous with your pumping intensity, this will prevent most fluid retention as there is really no place for the fluid to go – significantly more force is required to shove fluid across membranes into these constricted spaces. Water can slowly be evacuated from the cylinder at this point with the aim of creating a slow further expansion, just fast enough to keep up with the viscoelastic creep of the tunica. Here, the heat of the water also aids in further and easier tunica expansion. In this way, water pumping doesn’t directly “pull” more on the tunica, as many have said here, instead it limits fluid (other than blood) buildup/inflow, allowing more of the total expansion achieved during the pumping session to be from tunica creep.
Just because water retains its density and near-zero compressibility factor in a vacuum, there is still a vacuum, so the penis will continue to expand. If this expansion happens too quickly, there will still be fluid retention, though still probably less than pumping with air at similar pressures. What this means is that water pumping can bring you to a fully erect, maximal elastically expanded state rather quickly and at a slightly lower vacuum than air, but to reap the most possible benefits from the use of water, the vacuum should be increased very slowly from this point to the maximum negative pressure you are going to use for that individual pump session. On subsequent, successive pumps, because connective tissue will retain a great deal of viscoelastic relaxation during a short break, the preliminary vacuum and expansion can probably be a little bit higher each time as the tunica has increased ability to initially expand. After this point, however, the vacuum should be raised slowly once again until you achieve your maximum vacuum level once more.
I hope all of that made sense…
Roots
I was working with an athlete recently, and his performance was less than expected from his level of fitness. His mind was getting in the way of what he could achieve. Conscious positive affirmations work well for guys who are positive, but as his problem was negativity, so he struggled with conscious affirmations.
Self-hypnosis takes time to learn (he needed quick results), so I decided to go with subliminals for him. It worked so well, I thought “why not apply them to PE”?
Here’s how you can try them too!
Firstly, a quick and free download is needed for your computer. There are various ones, but simple is good. Google ‘Subliminal Blaster’ for the one I used. It’s quite an old one - if you find a better one, post it here.
Secondly you need to write some messages. They need to be properly constructed, so here are a few factors which affect whether your subliminal messages will be effective:
1. The message should be in the first person (using I or me).
2. The message should be in the present tense.
3. The message should be positive and must not be the reverse of a negative.
4. The message should be fairly short.
Write the message as if you are talking to yourself. Your subconscious mind works in the present so the messages should be written in the present tense. You should program your mind with things you do want to think about and should be careful not to remind it of things you don’t want to think about. For example, if you read ‘do not think of a bright pink elephant’, what did you just think of? So avoid using negatives in your messages.
Example of good subliminal messages:
My flaccid is 6 x 5
I have an 8 x 6 erect cock
I get hard easily
My orgasms are powerful!
My cock grows easily
I love my cock
My flaccid is heavy
My flaccid is soft and relaxed
I stay hard for as long as I want
I stay hard after I cum
I can have multiple orgasms
My cock gets ROCK hard!
My cock is bigger every day
You don’t have to stick to those. Make up your own. If you prefer to use the word ‘dick’ instead of ‘cock’ use that etc. Add anything else that applies to you; for example ‘I am confident around girls’, ‘I am confident in gym showers’. There will probably be loads of pre-programmed messages in whatever program you download which cover non-PE subjects, so you can enhance other areas of your performance too.
I used ones specific to me. Being past my mid 40’s, I don’t shoot as far as I used to. One of my affirmations was ‘I cum hard and far’ – 3 days later I got a face full of cum when I jacked off. At this rate, I’ll have to shave my beard off! :D
It’ll only take a few minutes for you to set up, it’ll take no effort to do after that, and should at the very least work synergistically with your PE routines.
You have nothing to lose, everything to gain, and I want to hear your results. So go for it!
It's All in the Angle of the Dangle…
After noticing a few different kinds of images show up here and having seen (and been a part of) debates on whether they are real or fake, I thought I would stage a few of these photography tricks for myself to see just how much a difference these supposed tricks and “angles” can make. Then, of course, I thought I would share them with all of you. ;)
The first few examples show effects that require no photo-shop or image manipulation at all and the last requires only very basic graphics manipulation ability.
Can or Cannot…
Inspired by this guys claims and image this example shows just how much a difference object placement can make. The claim is one that many aspire to in our fantasy… to be as thick as a pop/beer can. The standard pop can I used measures 8.25” in circumference (a very unrealistic goal), while my tube of paint measured 5.25” in circumference (a very practical goal for many). The two were placed less than half an inch apart.
A Bird in the Hand…
The type of image found in this thread even though it is quiet obvious that his hand is further back in the background, our minds play tricks making things in the foreground seem larger than they may actually be especially when we see larger things or things we think we know the size of in the background. This effect is exaggerated even further by wide angle lenses which can really shrink the appearance of background objects and distort perspective.
Web of Lies…
Much like the other examples, this type of web-cam like image has been showing up more and more because it really distorts your perspective by giving you a view opposite to what your brain is used to seeing. Instead of seeing torso, penis, legs… you see legs, penis, torso, which doesn’t seem like a big difference but your brain still thinks of size as relative to what has been trained to see every single day when you look down, so if the image shows a large looking penis against a small looking torso (due to the perspective) it assumes the penis is much larger than it would looking at it the other way around.
The Odds are Stacked…
Another advantage of the down looking up view is that it takes advantage of the anatomy of the penis. From the top looking down, we are basically limited to the non-bone pressed length while from the bottom looking up as seen in this image and as well in this one, the testicles can be pushed down further revealing shaft that is practically attached to the body and unusable for penetration. However, carefully placed hands and camera can hide the true location of the base of the penis and leave the usable length up to our imagination.
The tube of paint is just over 5” long simulating a 5” NBPEL yet I can get two hands with plenty to spare by hooking my thumb and pushing the (in this demonstration, imaginary) testicles down with my lower hand. The bottle is touching my body in each shot.
Get a Grip…
My hand can reach around a 6” tube and touch fingers together without straining or forcing it. Most of us here will admit that real 6” girth is pretty damn big. For myself, to get a 1” gap between my fingers I would have to be grasping about a 7.5” tube so why does almost every image we see of cocks being grabbed in porn shows this gap? It’s a simple trick really as long as you are aware of where the camera is you can adjust your wrist accordingly. Look for it in videos and you will see how forced the wrist position is in some cases.
Comparing Apples to Oranges…
Another common way to make an object look bigger is to surround it with smaller objects. Porn videos very often feature small women with small hands and small bodies and even small framed males whose body size exagerates the size of their members. These two images contain the same 5.25” tube of red paint in each shot with different sized tubes in the background of each shot.
Scale Ruler…
This little trick, which I first noticed in this thread is so elegant it only requires only a long enough ruler to essentially cut the image in half and even the simplest graphics manipulation program. If you can hold the ruler absolutely straight across the image you can easily scale up (or down) one entire half of the image using the edge of the ruler as your dividing line. Basically select a rectangle with one side matching the ruler edge and scale everything within that rectangle to a larger size. It is effective because most “photoshopped” enlargements attempt to select just the outline of the penis and enlarge it leaving lots of clues as to the image being tampered with. The only real catch is that you would have to take the picture over a solid textured floor as patterns or tiles will destroy the illusion. Imagine tiles of one size on one side of the ruler and tiles appearing double size on the other.
So there are a hand full of pointers for recognizing some pretty common illusions. If you guys have any other examples you are able to share I’d love to see them. I find it funny how much clearer I can see differences in regular objects but once genitalia are involved our minds somehow seem to process images differently.
You can use these tricks (especially the last one) for creating your own inspirational images, or maybe have a little fun trying to impress that special someone. ;)
Just don’t try and impress anyone here with them!
:)
Here are some links to further examples added as posts later in this thread:
As the title says, I’m going to post some tips that could improve both simple and advanced stretching for a few members, with also some explanations on stretching that even intermediate PEers could have missed.
The main topics will be:
So, let’s start.
I am writing here as one of the members partaking of what could be considered to be the first wave of chemical PE back in 2006. Driven by the proclaimed successes of some, interest in the topic rose, just to fall like the tide with the injuries and failures of others. It seems that now, especially on other sites, a growing number of men are willing to dabble in chemical PE. With this more recent surge of interest in the topic, this thread should serve as a place for objectivity to reassess previous experiences, both good and bad, and weigh the potential of chemical PE against its risks. Above all, the intent is to clear the haze of naivety of interested newcomers. In more figurative language, we haven’t yet found the Holy Grail of PE. It might be hidden somewhere in the area of chemical PE but, as sure as death, is guarded by a giant blood-lusting dragon that longs for casualties of long-lasting or worse, permanent penile injury. So this should be a thread for the discussion of promising peptides, and reviews of previous experience.
For some initial grounding on the history of the topic, here are some links:
Chemical PE Links
Chemical PE progress report
Dr. Adams Chem PE Again
My chemical adventure
My Chemical P.E. Journey
Chemical PE - DIY mixing thread
Topical Chemical PE
Chemical PE is yet in a very experimental state. It bears a higher risk of injury than manual PE (stretches, jelqs, etc.) or most mechanical PE (hanging, clamping). Possible injuries include:
This list does not exclude other forms of both temporary and permanent injury to the penis, immune system or the entire body of the practitioner.
The safest method to pursue the way of chemical PE is to undergo a program guided by a knowledgeable doctor with a strong medical background in this very area of expertise. Active pharmaceutical ingredients (APIs) of interest in chemical PE are often sold by online stores, underground labs and other manufacturers of dubious origin. Be mindful of the difference between producers of APIs with tens of years of business experience and reputation, that ships bulk quantities to known pharmaceutical companies, and those online dealers who do not indicate the origin and producer of their products. Experimenting with APIs of dubious or unknown origin poses an even greater risk for injury than stated above.
The author of these lines does not, in any way, assume any form of liability for incidents or accidents caused by the practice of chemical PE, even if following this guide. Therefore, understand that if you decide to practice chemical PE you are doing so at your own risk.
So, let’s start from the start. The basic idea of chemical PE is derived from the treatment of erectile dysfunction (ED): to cause, that is induce, an erection by changing the equilibria of specific bodily biochemical agents. This is paired with the idea of priapism: if an erection at mostly full internal pressure which (by far) outlasts a normal erection can cause a phenomenon called megalophallus, then a more controllable erection time solely caused by chemicals constitutes an alternative way of PE. Think of it as a three to four hours long edging session that comes at the cost of injecting a precise dose of chemicals, yet at the freedom of little to no mental and physical stimulation. This is the theory in a nutshell. Doses and injections are where things start get tricky.
The medically most common means for ED treatment are either lab-assisted mixes such as bi-mix, tri-mix and quad-mix (more specifics on these in a future section) or pre-defined mixtures sold by large pharmacy companies such as Pfizer, with the most prominent under the brand name of Caverject. Whichever way chosen, it boils down to injecting a precise and specific mixture of chemical agents with pure, safe-for-injection, bacteriostatic water (or other solutions, which will be addressed more in detail later), as a solution into the penis. The main active component is the chemical Prostaglandin E-1 (PGE-1) in the form of Alpostradil. The name prostaglandin originates from its natural production location in the human body, which is the prostate gland. It should be noted that Prostaglandin E-1 is the raw chemical agent and Alpostradil is the name of the pharmaceutically refined PGE-1. The distinction between the two should not be underrated. Let me elaborate on how peptides such as PGE-1 are produced in the first place, to get a better idea of the difference.
PGE-1 and other peptides are the product of specifically cultured Escherichia Coli bacteria. As such, the raw form of PGE-1 is - in most cases - only 97% pure. The 3% impurities are mainly comprised of E.Coli bacterial residua. To make the chemical agent into a pharmaceutical grade agent requires filtering and X-ray purification. As bacteria size ranges from 0.2 to 2 microns in diameter and from 1 to 10 microns in length, a 0.2 micron filter can be used to remove most of the bacteria residua. Since the purification procedures undertaken by pharmaceutical companies are more complex than just running the PGE-1 in solvent through a filter paper, it is easy to understand why the refined outcome (Alpostradil) is sold at a much higher price point.
The previous section introduced prostaglandin E-1 and it’s role in chemical PE. In this section, I’d like to delve into the details and issues of this peptide hormone.
Let’s start with the good: PGE-1 is a very powerful active vasolidator, which is a chemical agent that relaxes smooth muscle cells and widens blood vessels. If dosed correctly, PGE-1 can induce those hard and ideally 3-4 hours lasting erections with strong pressure on the tunica from within. The continuous stress on the tunica with blood pressures surpassing those of a normal erection, yet without the disadvantage of mechanically clamping off oxygen supply to the Corpus Spongiosum, is one of the main benefits of such a vasolidator. Other vasolidators will be dealt with in a later section.
PGE-1 not only opens up the vessels and valves to the arteries that allow an erection to happen in the first place, it also inhibits and regulates the production of collagen. The biochemical mechanisms are not entirely clear. Various scientific studies indicate a positive effect of PGE-1 on the restructuring of highly cross-linked, collagenous tissues such as the tunica and ligaments, yet to a lesser extent than PGE-2.
Moreover, PGE-1 has a variety of other effects on hormones and receptors that to a greater or lesser extent are likely to contribute to growth. The understanding of the mechanisms and interactions at cellular level are yet incomplete. From my personal experience I can however confirm positive PIs from low to moderate doses of PGE-1, including faster built-up to an erection, stronger and longer lasting night-time erections and more engorgement in flaccid state.
The bad side of prostaglandin E1 surfaces when actually handling it in practice. There are three main issues rolled into one:
At a temperature of -20°C, PGE-1 has a shelf life of at least 2 years when kept in its original, powdery, dry state. Combined with the fact that both minuscule and precise amounts are required for a single shot, this entails a whole host of practical problems. The amounts required for a single shot are usually in the low single-digit micro-grams range. This is just about the weight in the range between a large particle of dust and a very tiny grain of sand. This makes it barely visible to the unassisted human eye, and simply impossible to weigh - absent of some high-precision analytical scales.
As both a warning and a reference to newbies: the first time you intend to inject PGE-1, I.e. Alpostradil, do not inject more than 3.0 mcg, unless guided by a doctor. Actually it is very stupid to put a needle into your penis without medical assistance at all. It’s not worth spending the majority of your first chemical PE session in a hospital, so it’s better to be highly prepared and to start with a very low dose (should you choose to take your chances). If the dose turns out to be too low, not resulting in a firm and often painful erection after at least 15 minutes or even 30 minutes, you can try and repeat the next day with a slightly increased dose. This process of evaluating your personal dose is called titration; it is among the first steps of a medically assisted chemical PE program or therapy for erectile dysfunction.
Since very few chemical PE practitioners and aspirants can call a state-of-the art analytical scale their own, in order to weigh off even a small multiple of the estimated dose of a single shot, the smallest amount of powder it is possible to reliably weigh must be used. This is then added to the solvent. Dilute this stock solution down to a ratio practicable for both short-term storage and injection. But there’s a catch: once the peptide is in solution, there is practically no way back to the freezer. Peptides, such as prostaglandins, are very sensitive to ice crystallization.
Next to the challenge of wasting precious quantities of API because more than could be used is put in solution, the question should arise: which fluid is chemically appropriate to use as solvent for stockage? In the case of PGE-1, its specification states that basic solutions (pH value > 7.4) cause degradation to PGA and PGB and should hence be avoided. In the same way, solvents based on water should be avoided due to their high potential to degrade PGE-1. This makes organic solvents, such as DMSO, an appropriate choice to reduce the speed of degradation when used as medium term stock. Do not to use solvents with high toxicity levels! Storage temperatures for stock solutions should be in the range of 2°C to 4°C to allow for only moderate degradation over a period of several months. Extracting a very small quantity from the stock solution and diluting it further down to injectable levels in a water-based (aqueous) solution such as bacteriostatic water or phosphate buffered saline (PBS) for injection purposes constitutes the most common way of handling this prostaglandin. PBS is a special form of saline with its pH-value adjusted to human blood, which reduces the burning sensation after injecting. Provided that these steps are carried out in a clean and hygienic environment, the risks associated can be contained.
In the case of Caverject (and others), the included quantity of PGE-1 is in a stabilized form as a result of extensive freeze-drying treatment (U.S. Pat. Nos. 3,952,004 and 3,927,197), which would save most of the hassle mentioned above.
Injection of prostaglandin E1 is pain. Unlike normal erections, those induced by PGE-1 may cause discomfort to unbearable pain. Generally speaking, the higher the dosage of PGE-1 and thus the longer the induced erection lasts, the higher the pain factor, and the soreness resulting from it.
But there are other problems with PGE-1. The results of a follow-up study suggest that large doses of PGE-1 over long treatment periods is likely to cause fibrosis and to some extent even penile curvature. Penile fibrosis (PF) appears to be correlated with the cumulated amount of PGE-1 used over the treatment period, as patients with lower PGE-1 doses were either less prone to develop PF or more likely to recover from their fibrotic changes. The influence of PGE-1 on the development of PF is still unclear and conjectural at best. The main cause for fibrosis appears to be in the method of administration, injection, and thus the perforation of skin and tunica. Other studies however suggest the beneficial effects of PGE-1 to the healing of PF in the case of Peyronie’s disease.
Summing up, PGE-1 and its API Alpostradil is a peptide hormone, and in its function as a vasolidator is of great interest to PE. It has various known, indicated and unknown beneficial effects but also many disadvantages and risks. The bodily reaction to this chemical agent may vary from individual to individual, including hormonal balance and systemic influences just like side-effects from other drugs. Lastly and unfortunately, applying this peptide leaves no practicable alternatives to injections with present-day medical methods.
Prostaglandin E1 in erectile dysfunction. Efficiency and incidence of priapism - PubMed
http://www.natu re.com/ki/journ … ki1996302a.html
The effects of PGE1 and PGE2 on in vitro myometrial contractility and uterine structure - PMC
http://onlineli brary.wiley.com … 05.05499.x/full
PGE1 suppresses the induction of collagen synthesis by transforming growth factor-beta 1 in human corpus cavernosum smooth muscle - PubMed
Effects of a collagen matrix containing prostaglandin E(1) on wound contraction - PubMed
http://www.natu re.com/ijir/jou … l/3900951a.html
http://www.aian … na.org/node/334
As a general notion, chemical PE is above all a matter of diligence and accuracy. This starts with the work space used to fabricate and mix solutions, prepare shots, manage storage, etc. It should be well-lit and sanitized before each and every use. I have two bottles of hygiene spray for that purpose.
Another issue is hand hygiene. Hands should be thoroughly washed and sanitized before touching equipment such as vials, filters, bottles or syringes. Medical gloves (unused, non-returnable) are optional as long as there is no direct contact with the chemicals in use.
As detailed previously, PGE-1 is a rather sensitive peptide and should hence be stored with care. Whereas the long-term stash in its powdery state requires temperatures at about -20°C, in stock solution temperatures around 0°C to 4°C are required. Practically, the vials with powder go into a freezer and the vials with solution into a refrigerator. Modern freezers are built to maintain their contents at a temperature of about -10°C down to -25°C with ease, so the storage of dry PGE-1 over a period of up to a few years shouldn’t be an issue. Even the freezing compartment of a good refrigerator can sustain temperatures of about -18°C, which comes sufficiently close to the target. In contrast to these sub-zero temperatures, the stock solution should be kept just above the freezing point of the solvent, which has its own problems: microbes, spores and other unwanted germs thrive in a non-freezing environment such as a domestic central food storage facility, I.e. Your personal fridge. The question how to sustain a sufficient level of hygiene is one of both costs and effort. Ideally, a separate cooling instance is used for the stock solution and the short-term aqueous solution; a small hotel room fridge appears appropriate for that purpose. The less-costly, not-so-ideal and higher-effort alternative is to store the solution(s) in the domestic refrigerator; obviously not next to old cheese and rotten vegetables, and especially not in close proximity to the refrigerator drain, where germ concentrations are the highest. A practical way of handling peptide storage in co-habitat with groceries is to spare a separate compartment in the refrigerator (yes, an entire compartment!) , and in addition encase the vials in a Russian doll like manner. With meticulous regularity, the refrigerator should be cleaned and its peptide compartment disinfected with hygiene spray. I recommend packing the vials in an airtight zipper bag within an airtight zipper bag within an airtight and easy to clean container, such as a sealed Tupperware lunchbox. Each containment has to be made airtight before and after each use of its contents.
Replace the zipper bags and disinfect the airtight lunch box(es) with the same meticulous regularity, I.e. At least on a weekly basis. The fridge should be set to a very low temperature setting, just high enough to prevent the solution(s) from freezing. I recommend placing a thermometer next to the peptide encasement to control the temperature. Fine adjustments can be made by positioning the peptides further to the front of the refrigerator, for a temperature increase, or closer to the rear, for lower temperatures. So, take your time, prepare each step well, and never underestimate the risk of infection and blood poisoning!
If there was one common thing, which every regularly intelligent being on this planet would hate, or at least strongly prefer to do without, it would be injections. This is for a good reason: the skin as a vital part of the organism is damaged, signalled by pain. And, until fully healed, its main functioning bypassed, which is that of a physicochemical barrier, namely the protection from adverse outer influences such as germs, or just about anything non-beneficial and likely dangerous to the organism. If there was any other way of medical administration of a necessary drug, most of us would surely choose the alternative to an injection syringe.
The arguments for this least pleasant way of medical administration can be brought down to its bypassing capabilities, accuracy, and with it, dose efficiency. In contrast to ingestion, I.e. Oral medication, injections bypass the entire digestive tract with its gastric juices, sufficiently acid to break down and disable sensitive chemical compounds. In contrast to topical administration including areas with very thin skin such as beneath the tongue, the genitals and the rectum, injections benefit from higher accuracy and the limits of trans-dermal diffusion. Varying to some extent by individual factors such as skin structure, but also temperature, the capability of a chemical, especially a complex molecule to penetrate the skin is limited by its molecular weight (MW).
There is no precise limit, but as a rule of thumb, the “500 Dalton rule” establishes that the molecular weight of a chemical compound must be at or below 500 Dalton to penetrate the skin, with other authors mentioning even 1000 Dalton as upper limit (a future section on the possibilities of trans-dermal applications will follow). Unimpaired by the limits of trans-dermal penetration, injections moreover allow the deployment of chemicals to a rather precise target area, thus enabling even short-lived peptides to readily attach to suitable receptors in the local tissue, with no or only very little effect on other organs.
An ideal local injection would be dosed and placed in the way that close to none of the chemical leaves the target tissue. This would allow a very high dose efficiency with minimal side-effects. In the case of intra-organic injections, intramuscular injections and even more so injections into the CC, which by an erection is sealed off to an almost closed vessel, accuracy to the organ level is inherent and can be used to great benefit. Consider that the decisive factor of what an API may achieve after docking to appropriate receptors, is the amount of its molecules per volume unit of blood (usually measured in ng/ml, that is nanograms per milliliter). Minimizing the potential volume of blood and cells supplied with blood which the API is diluted and dispersed to thus maximizes the efficiency of its dosage. So injections not only bypass barriers, which strongly reduce the amount of a chemical that enters the body, they may also be used to target tissues with high precision and in the case of the CC without diluting the chemical agent further down as it spreads systemically via the blood flow.
Due to varying individual and external factors, specifics of the chemical compound as well as delivery-enhancing chemicals, there is no constant ratio that could give a precise idea of how much more of a chemical is needed in any of the present alternatives to an injection. In the example of PGE-1, studies suggest a factor of 64 to 128 at which the dose needs to be increased for trans-urethal application in the stead of intracavernosal injection. On a further note, my personal experience is that trans-urethal application of alpostradil does not yield reliable results at all. More resistant barriers of the organism, mainly upper dermis and digestive tract, are likely to increase this rough estimate by another magnitude, given the molecules manage to pass the barrier in the first place.
Further reading:
So you are injured and you want to speed your recovery, or perhaps you just wish to live a healthier life, recover quicker from workouts, recover from your work, or even just function at a higher level, then this is for you.
To Begin with ‘I am not a Doctor’ I’m a witch doctor if anything, I have no medical background, just a good deal of experience dealing with natural supplements. All the advice I give is at best my own opinion normally gleaned from medical studies and or traditional uses, I do discuss a fair bit with naturopaths and spend silly amounts of time researching effects of herbs, spices and supplements.
The body of this text is meant to give in layman’s terms (as much as possible), an understanding of better supplementation for healing and general health. It is not meant to be an in-depth scientific proof of each supplement. That would be best discussed as single substances in threads of their own, due to the complex nature of most supplements and what constitutes them. I have written this as a guide for those that don’t wish to be muddled in scientific literature and bogged down by studies they have trouble understanding.
The body is a wonderful thing it can regrow veins arteries and nerves, When blood supply to the lower limbs is compromised by oedema then often a network of spider veins will appear near the surface of the skin this is the body trying to get past the problem and build new pathways to remove blood, it does it with Lymph vessels too, clog one beyond repair and the body will absorb it and replace it, and the peripheral nerves that connect our limbs and organs to the central nervous system have an astonishing ability to regenerate themselves after injury as well.
But there are things that stop this regrowth Inflammation is one of them.
As with any injury and with everyday life we need to deal with inflammation in the body, if you work out you have inflammation, if you work hard you have inflammation, if you are stressed you have inflammation, there is always inflammation in the human body. It is a natural response to the many physical and mental stresses in life, and it is initially a good thing to get blood flowing to the area carrying nutrients and taking away the waste. However we want the initial inflammation to subside so the body can continue as normal.
Chronic Inflammation blocks nutrient supply and can even serve to block blood supply, we are not talking about acute inflammation which is the bodies initial response we are talking about chronic inflammation that is long term, which leads to a progressive shift in the type of cells present at the site of inflammation and is characterized by simultaneous destruction and healing of the tissue from the inflammatory process.
The inflammatory response must be stopped when no longer needed, to prevent unnecessary “bystander” damage to tissues. Failure to do so results in chronic inflammation, and cellular destruction. Now this can happen at arterial level, tissue level and even nerve level, it can happen anywhere and you won’t be able to see it, it happens at cellular level. You can damage nerves and they will fail to heal and regrow because the inflammation is stopping them from doing so. No nutrient flow = cell destruction.
It’s not just inflammation that we need to treat though, we also need to improve circulation for without healthy blood vessels many functions of the body operate at sub-par levels if the blood can’t get there then neither can the nutrients. On top of that we have Liver function to improve as well. The liver is the body’s most important organ, functioning as a living filter to clean the system of toxins, metabolize proteins, control hormonal balance, and produce immune-boosting factors.
First order of business is to deal with the inflammation, fortunately there are some very good natural substances that help to calm down inflammation and calm the system. Also when these are mixed together they become synergistic (that means they are more powerful together than apart). Some natural substances have dual roles such as treating inflammation and healing the liver and or improving the blood vessels, sometimes these can be the same thing. Atherosclerosis (vascular disease), is now widely considered to be a low-grade inflammatory disease.
Turmeric,
The volatile oil of turmeric has demonstrated significant anti-inflammatory activity in a variety of experimental models. Even more potent than its volatile oil is the yellow or orange pigment of turmeric, which is called Curcumin, it is the primary pharmacological agent in turmeric. Curcumin’s anti-inflammatory effects are comparable to the potent drugs hydrocortisone and phenylbutazone. Some people will profess just taking Curcumin, but let’s take the all the goodies in Turmeric and boost the effect. Now the problem with Turmeric is that it is not very Bio-available. It’s fortunate that nature has provided the solution in ‘Black Pepper’ (the wonder spice) freshly ground black pepper contains ‘Piperine’, it is the main alkaloid from black pepper and it has been shown to substantially increase the bioavailability of the nutrients in foods and supplements. Some studies show it increasing the bioavailability of Turmeric up to 2000%. Not only that, black pepper is a powerful anti-inflammatory in its own right.
Cumin,
has its own volatile oils and has a useful stimulative, and analgesic effect, Cumin improved the immune response of mice with compromised immune systems due to restraint-induced stress. These effects were marked by a reduction in elevated cortisol and adrenal gland size, an increase in the weight of the thymus and spleen, and replenishment of depleted T cells (these are a subset of white blood cells that are important for immune function). Cumin has been shown to have anti-stress and antioxidant properties in the liver which is important for metabolising nutrients. It also contains Alpha-Pinene which is an anti-inflammatory.
Raw Cacao,
Studies show that cacao powder provokes increased endothelial (the inner lining of blood vessels) production of nitric oxide and has considerable potential for promoting vascular health. The Kuna Indians of Panama, who regularly consume large amounts of flavanol-rich raw cacao, are virtually free of hypertension and stroke, even though they heavily salt their food. Flavanols, from Raw Cacao are believed to keep arteries flexible, increase small vessel circulation and reduce blood pressure amongst other things. Supplementation with Raw Cacao also eases obesity-related inflammation, insulin resistance, and fatty liver.
Spirulina,
Is synergistic with Raw Cacao. Spirulina is exceptionally rich in phycocyanobilin (PCB), which recently has been shown to act as a potent inhibitor of NADPH oxidase, this effect likely rationalizes the broad range of anti-inflammatory, cytoprotective, and anti-atherosclerotic effects Spirulina supplementation has achieved in rodent studies. In light of the central pathogenic role which NADPH oxidase-derived oxidant stress plays in a vast range of disorders, Spirulina may have remarkable potential for preserving and restoring health. Supplementation of cacao powder and Spirulina together, where the antioxidant impact of spirulina could be expected to amplify the bioactivity of the nitric oxide evoked by cacao Flavanols in inflamed endothelium (the inner lining of blood vessels).
Cinnamon,
Is a wonderful spice with many benefits, one of which is control of inflamation through gene expression, I won’t go into too much detail about this one as it is complicated to understand, suffice to say that it works to control inflammation through the immune system. Some caution needs to exercised with cinnamon though as it can be toxic in high doses (over 5 grams a day).
Allspice,
Possesses anti-inflammatory, antimicrobial, antioxidant, analgesic, antipyretic, anticancer, and antitumorigenic properties. It contains a multitude of potential bioactive agents that may contribute to health promotion, including flavonoids, phenolic acids, catechins, and several phenylpropanoids.
These spices are all relatively cheap when bought from “Spice Wholesalers” these wholesalers supply restaurants with kilo or pound lots of spice, currently in Australia a kilo or two and half pounds of Turmeric or Cumin costs around twelve dollars. Raw Cacao powder retails in health food shops for 30 dollars a kilo, I buy 10 kilos from the wholesaler for 18 dollars a kilo. The Best Spirulina I’ve found is “Now Foods” from Iherb.com and the cinnamon and Allspice can be had in sufficient quantity from the supermarket spice section.
How does all this come together? In a shaker bottle with milk, pour a cup or two of milk into the shaker, grind about half a teaspoon of Black Pepper, add a couple of shakes of Cinnamon and Allspice, then a heaped teaspoon of Turmeric, a heaped teaspoon of Cumin a heaped teaspoon of Spirulina and a heaped desert spoon of Raw Cacao powder, shake it up and drink it.
There you have it a very powerful anti-inflammatory drink that will aid you in healing, and recovering from injuries and everyday stress. If you drink a post workout protein drink then this is an ideal place to add these things to and twice a day is a very effective regime.
OK, first things first, this is probably the wrong section of the forum for this question but it is the only one I can post in being that I am a new member (in posts, not duration), but if a mod moves it into the proper section for me that would be cool as I would probably get more replies and perhaps more useful/well-informed replies (not that the members looking at this part of the forum are not well-informed or useful!).
So my question first, and then I will include some pertinent information about myself that should probably factor into responses, for those of you who want to read it, that is.
I am currently hanging and recently purchased Monkeybar’s VacExtender 4 mainly to use as an ADS, but I splurged and got the extender too, just in case. My PE tool chest is getting very complete these days (just need a Bathmate, but I have a badass homemade water pump in the works), but I digress. I want to know if the members here believe I should add more hanging sets to my routine to fill my extra time at night, or fill the time wearing the VacExtender. I would, of course, add in hanging sets or extender time slowly and incrementally but which approach do you readers think would yield better results?
It seems to me more hanging would always produce better results per unit time, but maybe there is something I’m missing or forgetting to factor in.
OK, so about me:
I have posted here once before like a few years ago, but I failed to really get rolling on the PE thing at that time, and since then I have done a week of it here and there, but never really got consistent. All manual stuff I might add, jelqing and stretching mainly. I was bodybuilding then powerlifting competitively at the time and just didn’t have a lot of time. But all that changed about two or three months ago when I realized I have a lot more free time now and I got this overwhelming desire to start the PE again and take it seriously. And I bought a pump. Investing the money really played a big part I think. Now buying and building new and better equipment is on my mind a lot.
Starting stats: I was not born small, and I have read posts on here where cats criticized guys for doing PE when they already had a bigger than average cock, but I want to do it so go ahead and call me greedy, insecure, impractical, or self-obsessed - you might just be right, but I’m doing it anyhow! :) So to begin with I was: 7.75 BPEL, 4.875 MSEG, 5.25 BEG, those numbers are in inches, and for those of you who like fractions that is 7 3/4 BPEL, 4 7/8 MSEG, and 5 1/4 BEG. Kinda skinny for my length, but decent size I suppose. If I quoted different sizes in my original post those years ago I was wrong, the numbers here are the result of multiple measurements all done according to the specifications I have seen on this forum.
My journey so far: I started out pumping for about a month with an air pump with a gauge and pistol-grip hand-pump along with stretches, V-stretches, A-stretches and jelqs all done before pumping with some (inconsistent) JAI piss-pulls throughout the day at work. I wanted to gain length before I worked on girth and for some reason I thought a pump combined with a good manual routine was the way to go. When I measured after one month I was very, very wrong. After one month of pumping at lowish pressure (-4 to -6 bars Hg) and slowly building up session length to two sessions of 15 minutes, along with the manual exercises I listed earlier and some pump stretches (pulling on the tube, stretching it to the sides and up and down, etc.), I measured in at 5.25 (5 1/4)” MSEG and 5.75 (5 3/4)” BEG with no gain in length (maybe 1/16” but I don’t think so). I think my base grew a bit more because it got WAY MORE expansion in the tube since I didn’t use one of those pump sleeves or a condom. I was getting thicker and I had always heard the (very unscientific) argument that it is easier to stretch a thinner noodle/rubber band. I bought a bib hanger immediately after reading more about what is best for length gains. One off-topic note on pumping: the girth gains I got have been MOSTLY permanent - there was a little shrinkage, but I am measuring at nearly the same girth. I guess what I’m saying is, in the big debate between the hardcore/experienced pumpers and the “fluid-retention” community, I now believe (based on admittedly very little experience) that pumping can yield permanent results - I was far too inconsistent on my jelqing for the first couple weeks for the growth to have come from anything else. When I achieve my desired length and start working on girth I will definitely continue pumping - hopefully with the water pump I am acquiring the parts for currently - along with some clamping.
So anyhow, I started hanging and have really got the hang (no pun intended) of wrapping, minimizing twisting, using the BTC angle, managing/”riding” fatigue, hanger tightness and placement (that was HUGELY important), and my skin has stretched enough that the stress is now firmly on the internal structures of the penis and the ligs. It feels very productive and I have gained between 1/4” to 3/8” in length in the two-ish (maybe a week less) months I’ve been going at it so far. In short, loving it! I hang between 6 and 9 20-min. Sets a day always with one of those sets right after waking and one right before bed, the rest are right after work in the afternoon. Split sets make sense to me. And Bib said they work and that should be reason enough! :) I also do between 160-200 50-60% erection-level jelqs right after my long afternoon hanging session and will be slowly and incrementally increasing that number over time in the future. VERY slowly, in fact, because I think the jelqs are mainly for circulation and EQ in this routine - not a primary driving force behind growth.
I just bought the VacExtender/ADS as I explained earlier, and will be wearing it as an ADS during work on weekdays and anytime I am not hanging/extending on weekends. Except while sleeping. I looked at ANS, but I kept running into the word “tissue necrosis,” what an awful sounding phrase! I will mainly be using the ADS to “heal extended,” minimize connective tissue toughening, and all that jazz and perhaps get a little more in the length gains department (though I’m not counting on this) while I’m working and otherwise wasting time that could be better spent finding ever-more-inventive ways to pull on my cock. So now I have this extender too and about two or three hours on weekdays and a bunch of time most weekends that is free and private - except for my girlfriend, but she knows and, aside from a few disturbed looks (I mean can you blame her? Hanging weights from your dick is weird), doesn’t care. So the question again: more hanging sets or throw on the VacExtender (or regular extender) during my free time? Or more ADS is an option too, but that just seems less productive.
Thanks for any replies I get, and sorry I wrote a book for this one! Figured I needed to include that information for informed responses.
I’m going through the size database, checking out the big gainers and examining their PE careers. Some of them have been prolific posters, some never made a single post. Some of them are still active on the board, but most of them stop by infrequently or not at all. I’m going to collect highlights from their posts during their gaining periods to see what they used.
I’m not going to make any judgments on whether a member’s stats are true or false, but I will omit a few obvious fakes (10 inch length gain? 7 inch girth gain?). I believe most of the big gainers are telling the truth, but the truth can be difficult to swallow. Just like natural cock size, there are a few lucky guys who get 5 to 10 times average volume gains while the vast majority of guys get average gains. If anything, the size database seems to show that volume gain is even more positively skewed than natural size. Without further adieu.
Penis enlargement can be grouped into two main categories:
Surgical penis enlargement is improving all the time but is still experimental, at best. It mainly involves cutting the ligaments to expose more shaft or bulking the girth of the penis with fat injections or man-made tissue. The injection of fat has some long term issues (reabsorbtion being one). The cutting of ligaments normally requires hanging or extender usage post-surgery to aid gains. There are instances of this technique producing a shorter phallus.
The rest of this page deals with NPE. For discussions on surgical techniques, the forums provide direct experiences of those who have undergone surgery, both positive and negative.
The Scientific Case For Natural Penis Enlargement
It is often advantageous to wait for scientific studies to be conducted on a product or technique, for the relevant authorities to pass it as fit, and maybe a number of years in the field to guarantee it’s effectiveness, and long term stability and safety. Even when this path is followed, safety and efficacy are not assured: From Thalidomide to Cox Inhibitors and Asbestos to Sudan 1, there are regular scares which remind us that scientific study and regulation provides only a partial guarantee.
In today’s world we are used to being presented with a multitude of conflicting information, either relying on trusted sources to provide an unbiased summary or wading through the detail ourselves. The minimum requirements for trusting something often include at base some kind of scientific proof.
There is no independent scientific proof for Natural Penis Enlargement. To complicate matters, available information is often skewed or deliberately misleading, tainted by scam merchants.
The closest thing to properly conducted research is that conducted by Dr. Brian Richards in 1975, following the “Chartham Method”, which consisted of muscle exercises, warm wraps and vacuum pumping. This came to light when the vendors of the Chartham Method were sued for “obtaining money or property through the mails by means of false representations” by USPS, a case they lost.
Dr. Richards experiment lasted 3 months, consisted of a tiny random sample size of 64 of which 32 were a control. Of the 32 men involved pro-actively in the trial, 2 dropped out and 2 gained nothing. The remaining 28 gained between 0.94” and 1.4” inches in length and .55” and 1.2” in girth, a success rate of 87.5%.
If you compare this small experiment to the kind of research required to get a drug passed by the FDA, it is easy to see that these results are at best worthy of further research. Dr. Richards himself could not be sure of the permanence of the gains.
The comparison with the process required to pass a drug for market, even a potentially dangerous or useless one, also leads to the most obvious reason research is sparse. The amount of money required to run research of this kind is not inconsiderable, and the potential revenue is somewhere between tiny and non-existent. The money in penis enlargement is in the surgical field or the scams run by those pushing penis pills and patches.
Evidence That Penis Enlargement Works
Here’s where the good news starts, though it is mostly empirical in nature with theories based on other technologies or research outside the field.
This site has many thousands of members signed up to the forum. There are posts going back over 11 years from people who have tried penis enlargement and succeeded. These people come from all walks of life and many different countries around the world. Even medical people have gained and posted about their gains.
The downside of a forum is that of the people who join, there is no way to calculate a success rate. Only those who post can effectively be counted and it is hard to gauge whether people will post more if they are successful or if they fail. It is also impossible in many cases to test the veracity of claims made. There is at least one reported example of a person who tried for two years and gained nothing, then switched methods and gained an inch in length. There are also cases of people who have been frustrated with lack of gains and either pushed to the point of injury or given up.
There is also the issue of permanence. There are a few cases of people who have committed to PE, gained well and then stopped. These people have then lost a proportion of their gains. There are others who have lost little or nothing. Some of this maybe has to do with methods employed or cementing gains, some may have to do with lowered erection levels over time.
Penis enlargement is in much the same position as herbal remedies in many ways, good quality information can be hard to come by on the Internet in general. On the forum fads tend to gain a grip easily and proven methods can be ignored. The psychology is easy to understand, if someone claims you can gain faster and with less effort, a desire is encouraged and if you have the least bit of insecurity it will grow. Sometimes even the desire for something to be wonderful and revolutionary will encourage advocates and an idea with people behind it convinces more people.
There is a fair amount of experimentation, this filters through the forum for a period of years and, if it turns out to be useful, it ends up here in Penis Enlargement Cream or The Penis Enlargement Manual.
Injury is something that as a beginning PEer you have to watch for like a hawk and not fall into the trap of running before you can walk or pushing beyond the boundaries of anything that could be defined by the words safe and sensible. With PE comes risk and also reward and it is for you to guard against the risk, while maximizing the reward. Check the “Injury and Treatments” forum for more information. The vast majority of injuries reported are minor, and the major injuries are the result of techniques that are considered dangerous by the majority of PEers.
The Penis Enlargement Skeptic
Your first step as a penis enlargement skeptic should be to see if you can figure out the con here. Look around the site, check for advertisements, check for posts that look as if they are trying to hawk products to you, check for anything else you can think of.
You will find next to some members names the added title ‘Commercial Member’ and a section in the FAQ on what this means. You will also find people posting spam here and hoping to get away with it.
Once you’ve looked around this site with that attitude, take the same skepticism to any other Penis Enlargement site you visit. Commercial Penis Enlargement is extremely cut throat, with underhand tactics and guerrilla marketing continually attempting to lull you into useless products or paying for information which is available for free elsewhere.
What You Need For Penis Enlargement
Natural Penis Enlargement is not something you can buy, it’s something you need to work at. Other than buying some lubrication from your local pharmacy or sex shop, you do not need to spend any money. Most of us are time poor these days and have a fair amount of disposable income, the thought of a quick route to success with penis enlargement is incredibly enticing but there are no shortcuts. Surgery is not a guarantee of gaining or even retaining your original length.
If you choose to register here, you can access the exercise videos and the extra forums. If you get queasy about giving out your email address, or you work particularly well from text and don’t need hand holding, this is unnecessary. A little extra reading of the the resources available to guest users will suffice.
On the forum you will read about all manner of equipment. Some members have spent varying amounts of cash on PE devices or information. Some people will mix comments about their latest purchase with good reported gains. This does not mean that expensive equipment is helpful or even necessary.
Most devices are available in an easy make at home version, if not on Tom Hubbard’s site then elsewhere in the forum.
The graph below shows penis girth against the percentage of men having said girth. For comparison with your own penis locate your length to the nearest 0.25” along the bottom and read off the percentage from the left.
Penis Girth Data
The graph above is based on the following data. All measurements are made at mid shaft with a full erection. To replicate this on your own penis use a tailors tape. If you don’t have access to a tailors tape use a short length of string around the shaft and and a felt pen to mark where the string crosses itself, then measure the marks against a ruler.
Girth Inches | Percentage of men % |
---|---|
1.50” | 0.3% |
1.75” | 0.4% |
2.00” | 0.4% |
2.25” | 1.2% |
2.50” | 0.3% |
2.75” | 0.3% |
3.00” | 0.4% |
3.25” | 0.4% |
3.50” | 0.9% |
3.75” | 1.1% |
4.00” | 6.3% |
4.25” | 6.3% |
4.50” | 17.1% |
4.75” | 11.7% |
5.00” | 24.1% |
5.25” | 9.9% |
5.50” | 11.5% |
5.75” | 3.0% |
6.00” | 3.9% |
6.25” | 0.5% |
6.50” | 0.5% |
6.75” | 0.1% |
When deciding whether penis enlargement is something you should pursue, it is worth considering whether your initial size is a problem to you and why it’s a problem.
For a heterosexual man or a gay man of limited experience, judging how one’s penis size fits into the spectrum of what is normal can be very hard. Porn provides a vastly skewed image of normal and partners who have complained about size might have motives other than being truthful. It’s worth considering, therefore, whether your desire for a larger penis is based on your lack of knowledge about the size of the average penis or maybe whether it’s based on feedback from a partner attempting to hurt and concentrating on something that is seen as central to the male ego.
Penis Size Surveys
If you want to skip this section, the average length of the penis is between 5 and 7 inches and the average erect girth is between 4 and 5.5 inches.
If you aren’t from the US or maybe think NASA should measure everything in metric, view the metric version.
Kinsey Report
Dr. Alfred Kinsey provided a large scale survey of penis size. Below is a graph showing the length results, alternatively see this penis length table. To compare your size to this graph: measure your penis whilst fully erect, from the top, with the base of the ruler from the point at which the penis meets the skin around the pubic area without pressing in. If you are uncircumcised ensure your foreskin is retracted.
Below is a graph of erect girth against the percentage of men with that girth. To measure yourself, use a tailors tape or string and measure around the middle of the shaft when fully erect. Alternatively view the data in a penis girth table.
This data was reinterpreted by Jamison and Gebhard (Journal for Sex Research 24: 177-183. 1988) to produce median results:
Mean Inches | Standard Deviation +/- | |
---|---|---|
Flaccid penis length | 3.89 | 0.73 |
Erect penis length | 6.21 | 0.77 |
Flaccid penis circumference | 3.75 | 0.65 |
Erect penis circumference | 4.85 | 0.71 |
Erectile increase in length | 2.30 | 0.71 |
Erectile increase in circumference | 1.11 | 0.52 |
Kinsey has a survey size of 3,500.
The Definitive Penis Size Survey
This survey is something that leverages the power of the Internet. It is therefore self reporting but the similarity of the results to Kinsey are striking and so it seems reasonable to assume that bogus entries are overwhelmed by good entries.
The sample size is currently 2,545 which is slightly smaller than Kinsey but certainly enough to to provide good results. In this survey the length results are measured BP, which means the ruler is pressed into the pubic bone on the top of the penis. This removes the effect of the fat pad over the pubic bone which can easily be over 0.5”. Most people on the forum push as as hard as possible when using this method, which may mean they are measuring longer than people in this survey for the same physical length. The girth shown is also larger than in Kinsey but girth is harder to measure and tends to increase if the erection is allowed to fade slightly whilst measuring, it is not unreasonable to assume that respondents will attempt to measure the maximum dimensions rather than the fully erect dimensions.
Mean Inches | Standard Deviation +/- | |
---|---|---|
Flaccid penis length | 3.4 | 1.1 |
Erect penis length | 6.4 | 1.2 |
Erect penis circumference | 5.0 | 1.0 |
This survey is well designed and comprehensive, also probing the psychology of penis size.
The Definitive Penis Size Survey
Still Unsatisfied With Your Penis Size?
If:
If you fit into category 2 you are perfectly normal. Your penis size is the size penises are meant to be. You are perfectly capable of satisfying a lover and in fact an increase in size may negatively impact on your sex life.
In category 3 you can walk down the street safe in the knowledge that the majority of men you meet will be smaller than you. Does that help?
What Penis Enlargement Won't Do
Penis Enlargement is a physical thing, it’s about taking something of one size and transforming it into another, it will not:
Penis Enlargement will focus you on your penis and it may, especially if it doesn’t work - and it may not, make you feel a lot worse about yourself than you currently do. For it to succeed at all it needs to be run like a military operation and if you can’t spare an hour in your day 5 days a week, you will become quickly frustrated.
If you want to succeed, you must bring a skeptical but positive attitude to it and be willing to spend a great deal of time over a period of one or two years.
Before embarking on the voyage of discovery that is Penis Enlargement it is probably worth looking at whether it is worth it for you. With the vast amount of penis enlargement spam and the prevalence of well endowed men in porn, the image of what is considered reasonable in terms of penis size is shifting. The pressure that women have felt about their breast size for many years is starting to crash down on our members. Just in the way a woman can avoid larger breasts and still succeed in life, so can a man exist with his present penis size, in all but the minority of cases. To get an idea of how your penis fits into the grand scheme of things check our penis size page.
Penis enlargement is the subject of so much spam mail and hype that it can be difficult to tell what is real and what is fabrication, one of the simplest questions is Does Penis Enlargement Work?. It’s a very valid question. The simple answer is yes, but not for everyone, and you do not need to purchase anything to make it happen. It’s not easy and you have to think long term. There are no quick fixes. Even purported quick fixes, like penis enlargement surgery, are not.
Penis enlargement pills do not work and will never work. They contain vasodilators and stimulants which may temporarily increase the strength or duration of an erection but there are other supplements that will do this at a fraction of the cost.
On this site you will find penis enlargement exercises like the jelq. This is also known as jelque, jelk, jelking and even yelq and is often wrongly attributed as a secret and ancient arab penis enlargement method. You will also find stretches to extend length and squeezes to increase penis girth. These exercises are documented in tutorial form, often with accompanying video clips. All known penis enlargement methods have been or are being discussed here, including pumping, hanging, pills and surgery.
Beyond the enlargement forums, we have a number of related forums, available only to members. Membership is free of charge (gratis). We recognise that there may be a reluctance to sign up to a penis enlargment site, so please do browse the publicly available forums and read our privacy policy before deciding whether or not to register. Get a feel for this site and decide for yourself whether we are part of the scam or whether we attempt to cut through the misinformation. Though this site is largely populated by men, all genders, gender identities and sexual orientations are welcome and we attempt to make the site as friendly as possible.
This site is funded entirely by donations. If you find it helpful and wish to donate to it’s upkeep, it will be appreciated. If you do not wish to donate, that is OK also.
Other available resources are:
Penis Enlargement Manual
Longer penis enlargement articles and copies of past Tom Hubbard penis enlargement sites.
Penis Enlargement FAQ and Glossary
Free penis enlargement information resource and beginner’s guide
Penis Enlargement Videos
Free penis enlargement videos covering multiple techniques and penis enlargement disciplines.
Free Penis Enlargement Database
Keep track of your penis enlargement progress and compare to others.
Male Supplements
Most people have now received the gain 3 inches in 3 weeks spam mails detailing how penis enlargement pills, penis enlargement creams or oils, and even penis enlargement patches will miraculously grow the penis with little or no effort on your part. These scams make people think they can throw money at the issue, which is far from the truth.
Our supplements forum contains discussions on the active ingredients in enlargement pills that can often be bought for less money than the bottle the pills come in, and discusses the relative benefits of supplements in general. A number of members over a period of years have contributed their pharmaceutical knowledge and discussions frequently go into great depth.
The graph below shows penis length against the percentage of men having said length. For comparison with your own penis locate your length to the nearest 0.25” along the bottom and read off the percentage from the left.
Penis Length Data
The graph above is based on the following data. All measurements are made NBP, along the top of the shaft. To measure NBP place a ruler or tape at the bottom of the shaft without pressing in towards the pubic bone. Kinsey measured uncircumcised men with the foreskin fully retracted.
Length Inches | Percentage of men % |
---|---|
3.75” | 0.2% |
4.00” | 0.3% |
4.25” | 0.2% |
4.50” | 1.7% |
4.75” | 0.8% |
5.00” | 2.0% |
5.25” | 4.4% |
5.50” | 10.7% |
5.75” | 8.0% |
6.00” | 23.9% |
6.25” | 8.8% |
6.50” | 14.3% |
6.75” | 5.7% |
7.00” | 9.5% |
7.25” | 1.8% |
7.50” | 2.9% |
7.75” | 1.0% |
8.00” | 1.0% |
8.25” | 0.3% |
8.50” | 0.3% |
8.75” | 0.1% |
9.00” | 0.1% |
There is unfortunately a tendency to market to fear and inadequacy and penis enlargement scams play to this.
Penis enlargement pills do not in any way perform as advertised. They are a mixture of various herbs known for enhancing libido and increasing circulation. The temporary increase in circulation may result in harder erections, fooling the user into believing that actual growth is occurring.
These pills are often delivered with instructional leaflets on penis enlargement exercises which would work in the absence of the pills and are available for free on this forum. It’s really not surprising that people following the exercise while taking pills are gaining, a placebo would work.
There are formulations from reputable suppliers that claim only to increase libido and contain much the same ingredients, often of better quality. Effectively, penis enlargement pills often charge in excess of $60 for a label containing the words penis enlargement rather than libido enhancement. A bottle of 60 libido enhancement pills should cost less than $10.
Even libido enhancement pills have a fairly large markup, and buying the useful constituent ingredients is by far the most cost effective manner, if libido enhancement is required.
Breakdown of common ingredients
What follows is a short breakdown of common ingredients found in many leading penis enlargement pills. For a more in depth discussion, please read the Tutorial Forum and the Supplements Forum.
Ingredient | Description |
---|---|
L-arginine | A non-essential amino acid found in protein rich foods: meat, milk, eggs, almonds and other nuts. L-arginine is a biological precursor of NO. NO is required for erections, but clinical trials of L-Arginine have produced mixed results for treatment of erectile dysfunction, even at doses far higher than those found in penis enlargement pills. The myth that L-arginine stimulates production of HGH is why it is found in PE pill formulations and body building pills. Even trials injecting high doses of HGH directly have failed to show growth, simply providing an amino acid the body can make itself and inferring that HGH will be produced is a fallacy. It may cause nausea, sore muscles, numbness and the swelling of hands and feet. Can be bought very cheaply, especially in powder form. |
Yohimbe Corynanthe Yohimbea | Reputed aphrodisiac with a tendency to cause heart palpitations. May also cause nausea, migraine, dizziness and raised body temperature. Best not taken at high dose or daily. |
Horny Goat Weed Herba Epimedii Ying Yang Huo | May help kidney function, increase male/female libido. Mentions of increased testosterone production are unlikely. |
Ginkgo Biloba Leaf Folium Ginkgo Yinxingye | Aids memory, brain function. May help with Erectile dysfunction. |
Ginseng Radix Ginseng Renshen | Over sold as an aphrodisiac, light if any effect in doses normal in penis enlargement pills. Reputed to both invigorate and tranquilize. |
Penis Enlargement Pill Horror Stories
Optimum Penis Enlargement Pills
These pills, sold by Performance Marketing, were the subject of lab analysis commissioned by the Wall Street Journal. Analysis showed levels of E. coli bacteria at 16,300 colony-forming units per gram, suggesting large levels of fecal contamination. Also found was yeast, mold, lead, residues of pesticide and heavy metals.
Longitude Penis Enlargement Pills
CP Direct, the manufacturers of Longitude pills, was shut down by the Arizona state Attorney General office in 2002 for allegedly selling bogus penile enlargement pills over the Internet. The company also sold pills that promised height increases and bigger breasts.
A civil forfeiture action named Michael A. Consoli, 44; his mother, Geraldine Consoli, 76; and Vincent J. Passafiume, 28. All three were also warned by the state in 1996 for fraudulent practices and banned from doing business over the Internet or by mail in 1999.
Alzare Penis Enlargement Pills
On 21 January 2005, Michael Coluzzi filed a suit against Alzare alleging that Alzare claimed in advertising that their penis enlargement pills would add up to an extra three inches in “very, very convincing” advertising but had failed to deliver results.
Alzare pills are “guaranteed to deliver results within a week”. Mr. Coluzzi alleges that he “experienced no increase in penis size” and was unable to obtain the promised refund.
The suit against Alzare is seeking class action status.
Enzyte Penis Enlargement Pills
In 2004 a complaint was filed with the Federal Trade Commission by the Center for Science in the Public Interest saying the maker of Enzyte had not backed up its claims with science.
VigRX Penis Enlargement Pills
In early 2004, Jeffery Horton filed suit on Leading Edge Marketing, the makers of VigRX penis enlargement pills. The Denver Post reported Horton as stating “I used the products, but the products had no effect whatsoever,” and “I now feel that I have been cheated out of my money by the sellers of the products. If possible, I would like to prevent the sellers of the products from cheating others as they have cheated me.”. The lawsuit accuses the makers of VigRX of fraud, theft and money-laundering. By 2005 the suit had sought* and later reportedly gained class action status resulting in a $6.5 million judgement against Leading Edge Marketing in 2007* .
There are recurrent themes on this forum; one is ‘Does maturbation hinder gains?’: a poster asks again this very old (and beated to death) question and suddenly many other similar posts pop up; another one could be ‘Girth gains hinder length gains?’, just to make another example. A more serious, recurrent topic, is venous leakage. Since when Willy Wonka started posting again, I am having many private messages of people suddenly worried that they could have undiagnosed venous leakage, caused or not by PE; I’m sure I’m not the sole vet receiving posts like that.
So I think it could be useful to start a short reference thread on this subject. First point to make clear: venous leakage is often used as a general synonimous of ED; to be more rough, when Docs can’t find any other culprit for ED, they start speaking of venous leakage; venous leakage is somewhat an ad hoc hypothesis, like aehter - since They can’t make another convincing hypothesis, they think there has to exists something called ‘venous leakage’ which impairs erections. But let’s walk straight.
Causes of ED
‘There are many classification systems for the causes of ED. The easiest is to categorize the causes as physical, psychological, neurological, vascular and other. Reduced blood flow to the penis and nerve damage is the most common causes of erectile dysfunction. Underlying causes include the following: vascular disease, diabetes, drugs, hormone imbalance, neurological causes, pelvic trauma in surgery, Peyronies disease, and venous leak.
Vascular Disease: Vascular disease is the predominant cause of erection problems. Low blood flow in and around the heart may cause a cardiac infarct, the same problem in the brain may cause a stroke, and in the penis it causes erection problems.
……………………
Diabetes: Diabetes is a major cause of erection problem. Between 35 and 50% of men with diabetes experience erectile dysfunction and 50% of all diabetic men become impotent after age 50. The disease can damage blood vessels and nerve tissues. Both may have an effect on erection. High levels of blood sugar associated with diabetes often damage small blood vessels and nerves throughout the body, which can impair nerve impulses and blood flow necessary for erection.
Other: Drugs and vices, like drinking alcohol or smoking, may damage the nerves and blood supply needed for normal erection. There are over 200 prescription drugs that may cause or contribute to impotence, including drugs for high blood pressure, heart medication, antidepressants, tranquilizers and sedatives.
Hormonal Imbalance: Testosterone deficiency can result in a loss of libido (sexual desire) and a loss of erection. Low testosterone account for 1% of ED. High production of prolactin and high or low thyroid hormone levels (hyperthyroidism or hypothyroidism, may add to a low testosterone production and thus, cause a lower libido. Hormonal imbalances can also occur as a result of kidney or liver disease.
Neurological Causes: Multiple sclerosis, Parkinson’s disease, and spinal cord injuries are among those that may lead to loss of potency. Spinal cord and brain injuries can cause impotence because they interrupt the transfer of nerve impulses from the brain to the penis.
Pelvic Trauma in Surgery: Surgery of the colon, prostate, bladder, or rectum, may damage the nerves and blood vessels involved in erection.
……………
Peyronie’s Disease: Peyronie’s disease is an inflammatory condition that causes scarring of the erectile tissue. ……………..
. The cause of Peyronie’s disease is unknown, although trauma to the penis has been implicated. This curvature can be so severe that it prevents intercourse.
Psychological Causes: Though the physical reasons for ED are many, once a man has difficulty with erections, psychological factors often become a factor. Men who experience a sudden loss of erectile capability often have a psychological origin to their condition.
………….’
I think the above is clear enough, but to put things even more in perspective:
’Exploding Common Myths about Erectile Dysfunction.
Performance Anxiety is a Rare Cause of Erectile Dysfunction.This is just not so. Performance anxiety is in fact the single commonest cause of all erectile dysfunction in younger men and indeed plays some role in all erection difficulties.
All Erectile Dysfunction requires Prescription Medication to fix it. Nothing could be further from the truth. Most erectile dysfunction in younger men does not call for a pharmaceutical solution at all. Indeed such an approach may be entirely inappropriate and bring about a dependency that never addresses the underlying cause. In older men too medication may not always be indicated though in this group it can be extremely effective.
Venous Leak is a common cause of Erectile Dysfunction. This is absolute nonsense. Venous leak is very uncommon, is often used as the diagnosis of last resort and may be grasped by the desperate to avoid having to face up to performance anxiety.
Performance Anxiety is a Form of Weakness and is the man’s own fault. This, in my view, is the very worst myth of them all. This myth stops and diverts a man from accepting performance anxiety as the underlying cause of his problem. These diversions can be extremely expensive and unhelpful. They can lead to costly investigations, misdiagnosis and delays to resolution. Performance anxiety is not as sign of weakness nor is the mans own fault. It is something that can be perpetuated from a single event where a negative thinking pattern develops that can be challenging to shift.’
Ok, do we have a bit more clear picture now? I hope so. Let’s look specifically to venous leakage, what it is? More often than not, you could get an answer like this:
‘What Is a Venous Leak?
If the veins in the penis cannot prevent blood from leaving the penis during an erection, an erection cannot be maintained. This condition is known as a venous leak. Venous leakage may occur with vascular disease, but it also can occur as a result of poor muscle relaxation of the penis…..’
Venous Leak, Vascular Disease, and Erectile Dysfunction
So, as the name imply, venous leakage is a problem linked with the vein in itself. This is not anymore believed to be true, according to most recent research.
Several studies have shown that, leaving apart other specific factors above reported (vascular disease, diabetes etc.), when veins fail to trap blood, mantaining the erection, the problem is likely not in the veins themselves; here you are one of those studies:
On the pathogenesis of penile venous leakage: role of the tunica
albuginea
Ahmed Shafik*1
, Ismail Shafik1
, Olfat El Sibai2
and Ali A Shafik1
Abstract
Background: Etiology of venogenic erectile dysfunction is not exactly known. Various pathologic
processes were accused but none proved entirely satisfactory. These include presence of large
venous channels draining corpora cavernosa, Peyronie’s disease, diabetes and structural alterations
in fibroblastic components of trabeculae and cavernous smooth muscles. We investigated
hypothesis that tunica albuginea atrophy with a resulting subluxation and redundancy effects venous
leakage during erection.
Methods: 18 patients (mean age 33.6 ± 2.8 SD years) with venogenic erectile dysfunction and 17
volunteers for control (mean age 31.7 ± 2.2 SD years) were studied. Intracorporal pressure was
recorded in all subjects; tunica albuginea biopsies were taken from 18 patients and 9 controls and
stained with hematoxylin and eosin and Masson’s trichrome stains.
Results: In flaccid phase intracorporal pressure recorded a mean of 11.8 ± 0.8 cm H2O for control
subjects and for patients of 5.2 ± 0.6 cm, while during induced erection recorded 98.4 ± 6.2 and
5.9 ± 0.7 cmH2O, respectively. Microscopically, tunica albuginea of controls consisted of circularlyoriented collagen impregnated with elastic fibers. Tunica albuginea of patients showed degenerative
and atrophic changes of collagen fibers; elastic fibers were scarce or absent.
Conclusion: Study has shown that during erection intracorporal pressure of patients with
venogenic erectile dysfunction was significantly lower than that of controls. Tunica albuginea
collagen fibers exhibited degenerative and atrophic changes which presumably lead to tunica
albuginea subluxation and floppiness. These tunica albuginea changes seem to explain cause of
lowered intracorporal pressure which apparently results from loss of tunica albuginea venoocclusive mechanism. Causes of tunica albuginea atrophic changes and subluxation need to be studied.
http://www.biom edcentral.com/c … 1-2490-7-14.pdf
(The whole study is attached to this post, since it’s in the free domain).
So, in the very rare cases when venous leakage is the culprit, the issue is not in the vein but in tunica albuginea (and/or smooth muscle tissue). That's why venous ligation is unlikely to solve the problem:
‘If you indeed have a primary severe venous leak, then surgical correction is rarely effective long term. Look into some of the research by Dr. Tom Lue who pioneered surgery for venous leak only to virtually abandon it because of lack of permanent cures.’
So, how can we cure it? If the issue is that tunica albuginea and/or smooth muscle are atrophied and have lost strenght and elasticity, what can be done? One of the simplest guess would be: mechanical stimulus to reactivate atrophied and weakened tissues, isn’t that true? You go to the gym to get back strength and elasticity in your muscle and bones, maybe that could work for your penis too. That’s what enlightened urologists do suggests, actually:
‘The venous leak issue has nothing to do with overall health. The best treatments are the following:
External vacuum system. While you feel this is too embarrassing or intimidating, recognize that this is a very safe and effective way of controlling the venous leak problem without surgery and providing a reasonably good result for most patients. Potential partners worth keeping will not reject this type of a remedy.
Combination therapy where we use Viagra plus MUSE or the injection together with a tension ring borrowed from the vacuum devices. This uses blood flow enhancers to generate the increased blood flow necessary for the erection together with the tension ring that substitutes for the missing venous control. A bit expensive, but may be worth a try….’
‘…Organic ED responds well to vacuum erection device (VED) therapy, especially among men with a suboptimal response to intracavernosal pharmacotherapy…’
Implants, mechanical devices, and vascular surgery for erectile dysfunction - PubMed
‘…..Organic impotence as a whole responds well to this type of therapy [ 58], with age presenting no barrier, as the elderly can expect equivalent results [ 59]. If efficacy in certain groups is examined, satisfactory erections range from almost 100% in men impotent after radical prostatectomy [ 40, 60], to ≈70% where diabetes is deemed to be the root cause [ 43, 61, 62].
In arteriopaths, the success is reputed to be ≈90% [ 40, 41] and where the main problem is venous leak, ≈70% [ 42, 63, 64] are satisfied with the results. In our experience it is rare to find those who have such severe arterial disease that they should be denied a trial with the VCD and further, it has been suggested that as venous leakage becomes more severe, so any increased efficacy of the VCD over pharmacotherapy or intracavernosal injections becomes more pronounced [ 65]. This may be related to the recent evidence that there is a variable contribution from venous back-flow [ 37] as opposed to the initially proposed effect of a pure increase in arterial inflow [ 66]….’
http://onlineli brary.wiley.com … 98.00823.x/full
Uhm…mechanical stress, vacuum devices… does it sounds like….PE?
Take At Home
1) If you think you have venous leakage, you are 99% wrong;
2) if you fear you have permanently broken your penis, probably your penis is not working for psychological reasons;
3) if you really have venous leakage, the best remedy for it could be cautious and progressive PE.
Disclaimer: I’m not an urologyst, so don’t take my words for granted (neither the words of anybody else, for that matter, but that’s just me), check my sources, do more deep searches and make up you brain. This thread is just for a quick reference.
Hey guys. I’ve seen a couple extender designs pop up in the last week so I couldn’t help throwing mine into the mix.
I think it’s really great that people are putting their ideas out there! :)
First off, this is not an all day stretcher! This was designed quick on and off use for stealth PE when time and privacy is limited. I wear it for an hour at most, but do not have any problems with it during that time and could probably wear it much longer if privacy concerns were not an issue.
Secondly, it is not designed to be concealed! I believe you should be constantly monitoring any type of PE!
With that said, here is the design that I have been using since January. It is a cleaner, simpler version of the White Knight 2.
It is cut from a block of 1" thick plastic but I am sure a chunk of hardwood might work too.
Same "Chicago screw" post and closet door springs as the old design.
A piece of 3/8" plastic tube fits loosely over the posts and between the springs. It’s length is cut to determine the amount of tension is applied by the springs (longer equal more tension).
The loop is 1/4" surgical tubing with a flat shoelace pulled through it which gives support without the tubing twisting or rolling off.
The loop is rigid, no flex at all, and once set to the right size, braces the head against the rounded top of the extender securely while allowing circulation, mimicking a overhand manual grip (where the top of the extender is your thumb and the tubing is your finger. After it’s initially set it fits the same every time you put it on without readjusting, which speeds up the time it takes to condition yourself to the fit (gets comfortable sooner than other methods). To see how it works check out the White Knight 2 in Action
The base has two levels to quickly adjust from a standard and low tension set. For example, start in the lower level as a warmup, then jump to the higher level to increase the tension for the rest of the set.
I think the attached image is pretty straight forward and I am not going to go into too much detail with it because I am actually finishing up a new extender that addresses some of the limitations of this design, mainly the adjustment issue (This design needs to be taken apart and a new piece of tube put between the springs to accommodate an increase in penis size).
I am hoping to put that new design up in the next couple weeks, but in case I get hit by a truck before then, here is this one for now.
It has served me pretty well. ;)
Here is link to the Member Pics section showing the Lighting Rod in use.
(Yes, there was a time in the not to distant past where the plan was to make and sell these, but that time has past. It is much more satisfying to inspire people to build their own and save their money than it is for me to lose my time and money trying to make them!)
Edit: Check out the easier to build "tube top" head piece introduced later on in this thread. :)
The Physiology of an Erection.
Your Nervous System is divided into two parts, Sympathetic and Parasympathetic.
Sympathetic is also call the "Fight or Flight" part. It’s what kicks in during stress to help you survive. It evolved millions of years ago, to help animals react to danger. If for example a Cave Man is in his cave, and a Saber Tooth tiger comes strolling in, looking for a nice Cave man snack, the Cave man sees it and the Sympathetic System kicks in full throttle. The adrenaline in released in massive quantities, blood vessels contract, heart rate, blood pressure and respiratory rates sky rocket, basically preparing the Cave man to either fight for his life, run for his life or some combination of those.
After he survives the incident and feels safe again, the Parasympathetic kicks in and lowers heart rate and respiration, dilates blood vessels to lower blood pressure, relaxation sets in, blood flow opens back up to organs etc, and the body begins to recover and repair.
Skip forward a couple million years and the same Sympathetic and Parasympathetic are in humans, but now primarily result is stress and disease. Your boss yells at you, and the Sympathetic kicks in with all the same reactions, but now you don’t have the massive physical exertion needed to deal with the Saber Tooth, you just have to sit there and take it. This is what results in a lot of modern stress produced illnesses.
Now, lets take Joe Blow for example. He feels like his dick is too small and females will react negatively to it when he "whips it out" this "fear" will stimulate his Sympathetic System like his life is in danger. Same increase of heart rate, respiration, adrenaline etc. However, the problem lies in the fact that the penis is TOTALLY dependent on the PARASYMPATHETIC system for an erection!
So, you are afraid you won’t get hard, which stimulates the Sympathetic, which causes your erection to start to fade, which REALLY stimulates your Sympathetic, which REALLY kills your erection, and so on. You have now created a Negative Feedback Loop!
Now every time you need to whip out ol’ Yeller to impress a female, you immediately worry it won’t work, which stimulates your Sympathetic System…and low an behold, IT DOESN’T WORK! This just increases your fear, making it more likely that each time it will continue to happen. The more it happens, the more you KNOW it will happen again!
This is what is referred to as PSYCHOGENIC Impotence, or all caused by your mind and the panic. So the good news is there is nothing wrong with you. This is also called, "Performance Anxiety", because you worry you will go soft, so you do.
So what’s the answer? Anything that gets you to NOT WORRY about it! Of course that is easier said than done.
I suggest a few tactics;
1) First is reading this and understanding it. Once you understand the mechanism, its the beginning to reverse it. At least you can quit worrying that something is "really wrong" with you, its not.
2) Next is to begin to reverse this negative behavioral-cognitive loop that you have set up. For that a couple strategies come to mind. Learn EFT or Tapping, its simple, easy to do and effective to drain out the negative energy you have build up in your circuitry.
This is just the basics, there are tons of free videos. You can learn it in a few minutes and begin to get some good results right away. More complex emotions require more skills but you can do tons of good with it for yourself. I like to have you raise your greatest fears, AND FEEL IT AS STRONGLY AS YOU CAN, if you can make your skin sweat and stomach knot (like its actually happening) its best! Make a note on a 1-10 scale how strong the fear is, and then keeping the FEAR AS HIGH AS YOU CAN, tap through the points, VERBALIZING your WORST FEARS as you tap.
For example, (as you start tapping) "I can NEVER have sex with a girl, because MY PENIS DOESN’T WORK!" (keep tapping) "I will never have a RELATIONSHIP because I CANT STAY HARD", etc. Just bring up as much of the fear as possible and vocalize your WORST FEARS as you tap.
After you cycle through the first time, try and bring you fears up again, and again rate it 1-10. You will probably find its already reduced 50%. So, continue like this until its down to 0%. In the process other related fears might crop up, like "women don’t find me attractive anyway"…that’s fine, tap them all down to 0%.
ONCE you can no longer find any fear related to the problem, NOW you can TAP IN positive affirmations (but only after all the negative is out). You can say, while tapping, "you know, my dick actually can get big and hard, and there isn’t any reason why I can’t give this girl one heck of a shagging" etc. I like to state it like, "why couldn’t I …fill in the positive statement.
Work with this and you will find it will do a huge amount to erase this negative programing loop you have set up. (by loop I mean its reinforces itself.)
3) Realizing that its worry that does you in, don’t take fucking so serious, like a murder trial. Learn to slow down and enjoy the girl. Get naked at a fun pace, enjoy kissing her, smelling her, rubbing and teasing her, licking her etc. The more you just forget about "performing" and just enjoy the sensations and smells, the quicker you will find you are rock hard. Then when you get hard, don’t think "QUICK, FUCK HER WHILE ITS HARD" because that will just produce anxiety, right? Let yourself just kinda "fall" into fucking, without really mentally setting a goal or a start point, understand. Kinda’ like screwing when your half asleep, your LUST moves you into it, not your mind. The key to being a great lover is getting out of your head anyway, so learn it!
4) I think taking something like Cialis or Viagra in the beginning to help bridge you from fear to confidence can be a big help. It will take a semi erection and turn it into a full erection. As you gain confidence and break the negative feedback loop, you taper down the dose until you don’t need it anymore.
So, there you go, the Sparkyx prescription to reversing Performance Anxiety.
Good luck!
Warning: Hanging is an advanced PE exercise. Don’t attempt it unless you have at least completed the Newbie Routine.
HANGING 101
Contents:
Part 1: What is Hanging & Which Type of Hanging Device To Choose
Part 2: Your First Hanging Routine, Rest Days & Equipment
Part 3: Hanging Fatigue, Angles of Attack, Ligaments First
Part 4: Skin Stretching, The Wrap, Hanger Attachment, Hanging Technique
Part 5: Mini-Glossary: Hanging Related Terms & Angles
Part 6: LOT Theory: Why Use a “Debunked” Theory?
Part 1: What is Hanging & Which Type of Hanging Device To Choose
What is Hanging?
Hanging is possibly the most ancient PE technique in existence. Followers of the Indian Shaiva Naga Sadhu sect, Peruvian Cholomecs, and Karamojong African tribesmen have all used ‘hanging’ to increase penis size (or in the case of the Sadhu, to destroy all feeling in their penis). Effectively, traction is used over long periods of time to increase penis size through micro-tearing and deformation. Eventually, the penis heals in a permanent, elongated state.
Why Hang?
First and foremost, hanging has demonstrated the capacity to permanently add penis length (both erect and flaccid). Hanging is one of the oldest forms of PE and is a very well proven technique. In fact, many PE veterans believe hanging is the single best way to increase penis length. There are many stories of hangers permanently adding 2” to 3” of erect penis length. In the most spectacular story, “Bib” aka “Bigger” gained an amazing 4.5” of erect length through hanging. Many hangers (about 2/3) also gain .5” to 1.5” of erect girth (EG) at the very base of the shaft. Hanging will not add girth to the rest of your shaft, and some hangers gain no girth at all.
Above: The Bib Starter. Probably the most popular of all hanging devices, even among Bib’s various designs. Image courtesy of bibhanger.com
With manual PE exercises, it’s sometimes hard to tell how much force you are applying to your penis. In contrast, with hanging you always know exactly how much weight you are hanging from your penis. With hanging, you can also increase the weight very slowly, in small increments (vs. other PE methods where can’t tell exactly much additional force you are using). Due to these factors, fatigue is somewhat easier to manage with hanging.
However, even with hanging, the amount of weight you need in order to reach fatigue can change daily and weekly, and even hourly. If you push yourself during one set, you may find you must greatly reduce the amount of weight you are using during your next subsequent set. You must carefully monitor yourself, and listen to your penis. A sharp pain is always bad. Other feelings can be harder to identify; this is why keeping a journal is critical. Referring back to old feelings later may help you determine what is, and what is not working with your routine. Reaching high enough levels of fatigue (without injury) to cause permanent deformation is almost more art than science.
Length First, Girth Second
If you are debating whether to hang, you should consider whether you want to gain any more length. If you gain too much girth, you may find that it’s too difficult or even impossible to make good length gains. An analogy often used is that it’s easier to stretch a thinner rubber-band. If you are incredibly thick, you’ll need more weight, or more force to stretch your tunica. Another issue is that the scarring or toughening that occurs with big girth gains, can actually prevent hanging gains, while the opposite doesn’t seem true. Hangers seem to have no problem gaining girth once they stop hanging.
Choosing a Hanging Device
So you’re an experienced PEer, and you’re ready to hang. You now need to choose a hanging device. There are two primary types of hanging devices:
Traditional Hangers: (Bib Hanger, Muzzle Hanger, Sock Hanger, Captn's Wench, etc)
There’s a long learning curve on getting the wrap and hanger attachment settings perfected. Once you optimize your settings over many months, there’s a relative level of comfort. However, this type of hanger will never be as comfortable as a Vacuum hanger. With Vacuum hangers, you’re limited to maybe somewhere around 15-20lbs of weight on the high end. In contrast, with a traditional hanger, there’s no real effective weight limit. Experienced hangers like “Dustpan” have used as much as 75lbs for short periods of time while hanging.
With traditional hanging devices you’re limited to sets of 20 minutes in length, and after each set you must take a break of 10 minutes to restore circulation (Beyond 20 minutes, there’s tissue death, and some very experienced hangers use breaks less than 10 minutes, but this is not recommended).
MY PE EQUIPMENT IMAGE
Bib Hanger With Weights
Vacuum Hangers: (e.g. AutoXleeve, VacExtender)
There’s a fairly short learning curve on attaching these devices, since a wrap is not an absolute requirement. However, most VAC hangers, especially those using higher weights find that they absolutely must use tape to protect their glans. 3M makes a special Micropore tape that leaves no residual; most VAC hangers use this.
You also don’t need to worry about taking breaks every 20 minutes. Many Vacuum hanging PEers find that they can maintain blood flow while hanging. This means, substantially less work is required vs. a traditional hanger. Remember, every time you attach a traditional hanger, you’ve got to get the settings right, which can be difficult at first, and still tedious even if you’re an advanced hanger. If your wrap gets loose, or is falling off, you may also be forced to re-wrap (more of an issue with traditional hangers).
Despite the great advantages of Vacuum hanging, there are still some downsides. You can’t go beyond 15lbs to 20lbs (compare that to a traditional hanger where there’s virtually no weight limit). At higher weights, the VAC hanger either causes too much pain or or the silicone sleeve tears (expensive). There are also reports that using a vacuum hanger for many years can cause a raised whitish circle on the glans. In fact, the same effect has been reported with extreme usage of VAC ADS Extenders as well. Overall, there have been numerous reports that VAC hangers can make your penis ugly. Based on anecdotal evidence, it appears this is more of a concern with heavy VAC hanger usage.
Most manufacturers give you a few disposable silicon sleeves when you first purchase a VAC hanger, but eventually they will all tear with prolonged use (or increased weight). Then, when you attempt to buy more silicon sleeves they are usually overpriced. Lots of VAC hangers have tried to make their own silicon sleeves, but often this ends up being just as expensive if not worse. Over months and years VAC hanging eventually becomes several times more expensive than traditional hanging due to the inevitable need to continue replacing the silicone sleeves.
AUTOXLEEVE COMPONENTS
An example VAC hanger with sleeves, anti-fluid tape, weight caps, etc.
Hanger Should Match Goals, Budget, & Preferences
When choosing a Traditional vs. Vacuum hanger, consider all the pros and cons of each device. Great gains can be obtained with either type of hanger, so that’s a moot point. In the end it’s a matter of personal preference and goals. Some hangers buy multiple devices and try them all, while others (on tight budgets) only use home-made hanging devices. In my case, I decided a Bib Starter (traditional hanger) was the best match based on my requirements, budget, and goals. I purchased my Bib Starter in 2008, and it’s still in excellent shape to this day.
Penis enlargement exercises are not without risk. PE can result in genuine harm to the penis, ranging from minor nuisances such as skin discoloration to major problems such as erectile dysfunction.
Measurements. Before beginning PE, you should practice measuring for several days in a row. Make sure your erection is 100% solid, and experiment with your penis angle, the thrust of your hips, and so forth to absolutely maximize the length measurement you obtain. Be sure to jam the ruler as hard as you can into the pubic bone. The resultant “optimistic” measurement may not be the one you quote when stating your honest penis size, but it’s critical to establish a best-possible-conditions measurement so that you can sure, in the future, that any gains you record are real, and not merely the result of subtle variations in your measuring. Similarly, when measuring girth, take your base girth measurement at the absolute base of your penis; some penises get a lot thicker in the bottom 0.5” near the base, and it’s important to find your true maximum girth before beginning PE.
Erection curvature and angle. Does your penis curve left, right, upward, or downward? Does it “tilt” in any direction when erect? Does your penis point toward the ceiling when erect, or is it closer to parallel with the floor? Once again, photos are essential to quantify these issues.
WARNING TO ALL NEWBIES TO PE
It has recently come to our attention here at Thunders that there appears to be a small percentage of the male population that may have a defect in the valves of the penis that allow an erection.
This defect may go unnoticed your whole life until you begin to do PE. It seems we have seen several cases where even PE done properly may be enough to damage these defective valves to the point where erections are no longer possible.
We have had literally thousands of PEers that have practiced PE safely. Usually the only ones that have injuries are those that go outside of recommended force levels and safe practice guidelines. However there does seem to be a very small percentage for whom even safe practices have resulted in injuries that may be permanent.
FURTHER, there doesn’t seem to be any signs or indications before hand that you may be one of these unlucky few.
THEREFORE understand that if you decide to practice PE you are doing so at your own risk.
This topic has been floating around here at Thunders, and I think its really a VERY important question and should be addressed in a thread.
There are guys that find that the more PE they do, the better the gains they get. On the other hand there are guys that find that very short routines give them the best results and when they try and do more, they stop gaining or worse, lose some size and EQ drops through the floor.
So what is the answer, is more better, or is less better? Well, the answer is WHAT WORKS FOR YOU IS BEST! I happen to fall in the category that less is more. I have spent the last few years unable to believe that. Trust me, if hours in the tube or jelquing or stretching was better for me, my dick would be dragging on the ground by now. The fact is, even after years of conditioning, about 5 minutes of jelquing or pumping is about right for me. I have even tried low force pumping for up to an hour or more…great expansion, followed by contraction and EQ going to shit for a few days.
On the other hand, you constantly read guys who finally get serious and do a couple hours a day of PE and grow like crazy! I hate reading these cases, because it always inspires me to try it “one more time”, as if it will have a different outcome this time.
So, really bottom line is you must assess how your routine is effecting you. Some will respond very well to long sessions, and for some anything more than modest short sessions will result in a slide into impotency. I suggest to any Newbie, start easy for a few weeks to condition your penis against injury, then slowly over a period of weeks, ramp up time and see what happens to your EQ. EQ is a great sign for pretty much everyone, if your EQ is improving (hardness, frequency, ease of erections, nite and morning wood), its a VERY good indicator that you aren’t over training, at least not by much.
A routine that is dialed into YOUR physiology should produce a definite improvement of your EQ, and when you start to push past that zone, you will see a definite decrease of EQ. That’s your sign to back down to the level where you were getting great EQ. That will put you very close to your GROWTH ZONE, so kinda’ experiment in that area, a little more or a little less until you start to get gains.
Happy gaining!
Would a 7x6 penis be considered large? The length is BP. I’ll be getting to 6” girth soon (hopefully) and am wondering if my length is long enough to be to considered large. Would there be any point in going over 6” in girth?
For the sake of clarity, let me first define EQ. This is a new term I’ve recently introduced (as of first writing this article), and is important to understand exactly what it means.
EQ basically is the characteristics of Erectile Qualities some of the major ones are as follows;
True EQ drop will usually effect ALL THE CATEGORIES AT THE SAME TIME! Conversely, a true rise in EQ usually will effect all the categories also at the same time. You evaluate EQ as the sum of it all.
This is just a note that will seem very obvious to some and a new concept to others…PROPER PE WILL GIVE YOU HARDER AND MORE FREQUENT ERECTIONS!
If you already have experienced that, than you can leave now. If this is a new concept to you, than stick around.
Not everyone gains from PE, for some success comes quickly and easily. Others not so easy or quick, and some…can’t seem to get any improvement.
For the last two categories…let me just give you a very important tip. Greatly improved EQ (erectile quality) is something EVERYONE can achieve with PE…unless you already have frequent and easy rock hard erections.
For the rest of us, PE can increase the hardness, frequency and ease of erections…IF IT IS DONE RIGHT!
What is doing PE right? Getting the proper stimulation to recovery ratio. The other CRITICAL factor is……drum roll please…………
IF YOU GET VASTLY IMPROVED EQ…YOUR CHANCES OF GROWTH ARE FAR BETTER!
I have almost NEVER heard of someone getting great growth, while getting deceased EQ…why? A BEAT TO SHIT DICK DOESN’T GROW!
So, if you find you are not growing, or having a very hard time gaining, I suggest you go for great EQ first, then you will find you will have a much better chance of making gains.
So how do you do that?
If you are currently doing PE and you haven’t had improved EQ or worse yet, you have had DECREASED EQ…take 2-3 weeks off…COMPLETELY OFF.
If you have been over training, you will find after about a week or so, your EQ will start to improve. It may continue to improve for several weeks, at which point it will slowly begin to decrease again. This is the point to begin training again.
I would suggest a very simple routine, far less than you had before. Something like 5 minutes of modest jelqing and 5 minutes of kegels every other day or less (kegels are VERY important).
Remember what your EQ was like at its best or highest point, and make sure you maintain that level or at least never be more than one rest day away from that point.
This becomes your baseline…your anchor point. If you find that as you PE your EQ gets even better…THAT becomes your new baseline. Your highest level of EQ should always be your new baseline, because the better your EQ, the greater your chances of being in the growth zone.
So, now with this new baseline, you can slowly increase your PE in whatever force/time variation you choose. My only note on that is I truly believe that if you are unable to get a good erection when you are done, it is probably too much.
[Hanging MAY be an exception, but I would say that if you aren’t getting your baseline EQ back by the next day, it was too much force/time.]
My personal belief is that great nite wood not only indicates you aren’t over training, but I believe it helps cement gains. When my EQ is great (I’m 49), I will literally be rock hard for hours at nite, it will even wake me up.
When I am over training, I get almost no nite wood. Rock hard wood at nite MUST play a huge roll in cementing if not even some gaining…in my thinking.
So, if you are one of those guys that isn’t gaining, and have let your EQ drop into a poor state…consider giving this a try.
UPDATE NOTE; many times I get NO notification of new posts with questions, so if you have written a question on this thread, PLEASE pm me to let me know you have posted a question here, and I will reply. Thanks!
This piece isn’t about getting size gains, although they may happen along the way. It’s about getting sexual function back when you’ve lost your erectile response – either all of it or a degree of it and in a routine that doesn’t take all that much time a day.
Before ED your cock and your brain were in pretty much perfect synch. You saw and/or felt some sort of sexual stimulation and an erection or a “chubby” was not long to follow. This was because all the chemical combinations needed for an erection were in place and working and your smooth muscle tissue relaxed and the blood flowed in. You had good arterial and venous flow, your nerve endings were firing nicely; no impediments.
But you got diabetes, or you developed vascular insufficiency or venous leakage, or you took some needed medication that interfered with sex, or you got older or heavier or had an injury or surgical trauma, or your life went into stress-overload, or you smoked too much or you drank too much. The causes of ED add up to a laundry list.
But any of the reasons, or a combination of them, result in poor erections, or no erections, and the downside of that is you hardly use your penis anymore except to pee. You are not using your cock for sex with a partner or by yourself. You’ve become afraid to have sex and so you avoid opportunities and you don’t even get the benefit of semi-erections very often. Most of the time your cock is limp, with just enough blood going in to keep its tissues alive.
One of the reasons that your sexual response was good for so long is that you had a healthy pattern of nocturnal erections, whether you were aware of them occurring or not. Normal men without ED have 4 - 6 erections a night during the REM stage of sleep, each lasting about a half hour. That accumulates to 2 - 3 hrs a night of hard-ons. That’s a lot of erection time. The purpose of having nocturnal erections is purely a “housekeeping” function. Blood pours in, cleans out the gunk and accumulated flotsam in your arteries and veins that occurs while you are flaccid. This newly-oxygenated blood also feeds penile tissue. When nocturnal erections stop, so does the “housekeeping” and the intense oxygenation you used to get during the night.
A similar effect occurs in sexual and random situations. When you were younger you popped random boners at various times during the day, even sometimes when you didn’t want one. Now, not only are you not getting the nocturnal workout you used to, but you’re not getting the random ones anymore, and you’re probably not having sex as often as you did before, if you are having sex at all. It makes sense that your reproductive stuff is not real healthy. Your penis isn’t getting any exercise.
Using vacuum pumping while having ED you want to duplicate, on a smaller scale but effective scale, the same housecleaning and housekeeping you used to get from random erections, sexual ones, and the nocturnal erection pattern you once had.
One productive thing you can do is a series of mini-pumps, the object being to mimic those old patterns. To best accomplish this, make your vacuum pumped erections last only about 5 minutes each but do a bunch of them, just as happened nearly every night when you were “normal.” Pump at the lowest vacuum pressure that works. 3 – 5 HG is good. A little more HG pressure is OK, but only if you can tolerate that. Be as gentle as possible, though, remembering that it is not necessary that you get a cat-scratching post while in the tube. Any level of increased engorgement indicates blood flow and blood flow in brings oxygen in. You want oxygenated blood going in, a lot more than it has been since you got ED.
Allow the erection from the first 5 minute pump to subside and then start all over from first base. Blood pours in again, does its tissue oxygenation and its cleaning of your vessels. Allow the second erection to subside, then start yet again working up to 4 - 6 individual pumps per session, each giving you an erection, or a partial, in the tube. A partial is just fine for this purpose. After a few months of regular workouts – REGULAR being the key take-home word here (say 5 days a week, even 6) - and you will have gone a very long way toward rejuvenating your penile vascular/nerve system.
Nocturnal erections may begin to resume on their own, with sexual erections happening faster and lasting longer. You will probably find, if you use them, that lower doses of the erectile drugs you used to use will work just as well as the amount you took before. If you have ED and you are not using the erectile drugs on a regular basis, consider doing so, if your health condition allows that. There is a theory espoused by many urologists that goes: The more erections you have, the more you will have in the future.
You can start your pumping when flaccid, or semi-hard, or hard; whatever you can manage. It doesn’t matter: Your pumping workouts will be just as productive. This is all about getting oxygenated blood in again, and on a regular basis.
Pumping is not a perfect solution to ED but it sure can help in many cases of ED. If you try vacuum pumping, consider doing it on a mini-scale of what nature used to do.
And try to get off that charging horse attitude of I Want Sex Now! Instead, build toward a possible future of sex “now” and you just may get it.
Awhile back, Para-Goomba suggested that we link all of the important science of PE posts in one thread. I think that it is a great idea.
Please link the best science of PE threads and posts here. Different posts from the same thread may be listed here separately. List the date at the top of the post and say why you think that the thread and/or post is significant. Posts may be rearranged or consolidated for organizational purposes.
Comments on how you think the information should be organized are very welcome.
Questions posted in this thread may be moved to this first post so check this post for updates.
Once we have all of the important information linked here, we can arrange it in a clear and logical way so that science minded newbies can more quickly and easily get up to speed. Maybe it will be part of the Thunder’s wiki.
Thank you!
I’ve noticed a lot of people have problems finding exactly what they want when searching, sometimes not finding anything at all. Then someone else comes along and pulls up several threads, all found by, yes, you guessed it, searching.
So I’ve decided to put this thread together, to help everyone get the most out of their search.
The Basic Search
Accessed by simply clicking Search menu (or hamburger menu, top left on smaller displays) at the top of any forum page.
This is the kind of search that 95%+ of members use. Its quick, simple, easy, fast. It will also get you pretty good results. If there are relevant videos, they will show in the result.
As an example (I will use this example throughout the thread), lets do a search for “Penimaster” the well-known ADS device.
The basic search for “Penimaster” returns……341 results. And this covers the majority of search needs.
The Intensive Search
Intensive searches take longer and may even time out on the first attempt. They aren’t worth doing unless you’re not finding what you are looking for with a quick search. On the search results page or if you click Advanced Search, you will see Search Options underneath where you type your search term. Click on it and the options will expand.
If you’ve never seen these options before, it can look a little daunting, a little off-putting and maybe a little scary. But its not, so don’t shy away.
Type Penimaster into the box at the top and click on intensive right at the bottom of the options. This changes the default sorting to score and shows another set of options, results by thread or post. In thread mode if a thread is highly focussed on penimaster, it will return higher in the results. In post mode individual posts that are focussed on the penimaster will be sorted. Let’s leave it on threads.
Searching for Penimaster in this way, lengthens your results to 962 threads. Quite a big difference from the 341 in the last search, I think you’ll agree. It’s probably a lot harder to find the answer you’re looking for, so it’s best to leave intensive mode for a time when the quick search hasn’t given you the results you need. You’ll be prompted to switch on intensive mode if a quick search returns too few results.
The Forum Specific Search
This kind of search probably won’t be used often, but can be VERY useful. In the middle of the Search Options, there is a selector for the forums you want to search in. You simply click on the name(s) of the forum(s) you want to search, in this example, we’ll use the Progress Reports and Pictures forum. Continuing our use of “Penimaster” as a search term, enter that into the search keywords box.
This search returns 23 results and the threads with the icon actually contain pictures. If you are searching for pics of the Penimaster, this is going to get you close.
Now redoing the search, but combining it with the intensive mode, returns 69 threads.
Hopefully you’re starting to see how a combination of Search Options can really increase the productivity of your searches.
Note - You can search multiple forums using this method, just hold down CTRL whilst clicking the forums you wish to search
The Misspelling Search AKA The Multiple Terminology Search
Despite the spell check, spelling errors will occur. Which, unfortunately, means you will miss some threads when you do a search.
Take “Penimaster”. Also referred to as “Penismaster” and “Penis master”, along with less obvious errors such as “Penismater”, etc. It IS possible to find these whilst searching, but requires a little more effort and sometimes a little more patience than the other searches.
Examples
Peni would return all threads that contain words beginning with “peni” (ie - penis [and therefore, master], penimaster, penismaster)
As you can see, you need to use a little more imagination with the misspelling search, but sometimes it proves well worth the effort.
Other searches
The other search options available on the advanced search page I rarely use, but are pretty self explanatory, and very straight forward.
You can specify a minimum number of replies, specify a date range, choose to show results as a thread, or as posts, or even choose the order the results appear in.
You can also do a post/thread search by username, just type in the member’s name, choose “post” or “thread” and click search. If you are unsure of the exact name of the member, be sure to check the partial name box, otherwise you may not get any results.
Final comments
If all threads were stayed on topic and didn’t meander quick search would be all you need. As it is though, that doesn’t always happen, so of course some threads will be missed .
I hope some of you find this useful, feel free to add any comments.
Also see this thread:
Tech Tips For Thunder’s Place