Starting year 4 with no gains

Just keep on keeping on. I’d love to do a 45 minute session in the bathmate but the pressure is wayyyyy too intense. Just make sure you stay consistent and hopefully those temporary gains stick.

Thanks mate and good luck with your own endeavours.

We talk privately, but let me OFFICIALLY give you a big CONGRATS!!!!

Few have hung in so long, with so little results and with such an abundance of CLASS! You are an inspiration to the true hard-gainers…I’m officially declaring you the patron saint of hard-gainers! I need a picture of you so I can make medallions with you image on them to sell hard gainers for good luck!

Thanks mate also everyone should know what a massive help you’ve been, you kept me going through a few bad patches.
Cheers.

If you don’t mind, lets talk a bit about your technique and how its working for you. I already sent someone over here that hadn’t gained in 2 years…I’d like to use this as a resource, unless you want to start a new thread, “how I started to gain after 4 years of nothing!” That should get the attention of frustrated PEers! LOL.

Anyway, I am inspired by your technique, in that it holds a breakthrough for me also. As you know (and probably no one else) I think pumping is a wonderful method, in that it can be precisely replicated, if you have a gauge. You can precisely measure time and vacuum force, so its accurately report-able and reproducible. The breakthrough for me, is a method to prevent red dots, more accurately red dots becomes a red splotchy mess, damaging my skin.

What has always limited my pumping is that my skin is very sensitive to vacuum and before I can reach productive time or vacuum levels, my skin fails and start to get red splotches (skin hemorrhages) which get progressively worse. What you brought to my attention is that by cycling the vacuum up and down ( to low vacuum levels or zero vacuum) I can now use productive vacuum and time levels.

As you know, I am also intrigued by the Dynamic pumping thread (called dynamic stretching), and I see value in both of these approaches.

What I have noticed is that, I can get almost as much length in tube under vacuum (LUV) with the lower vacuum levels, as I can with crazy high vacuum levels with dynamic pumping. What has always struck me in the past when I attempted length gains with low vacuum pumping ( 5 in hg or less) is that I make great gains until I hit a plateau, then thats all she wrote.

Its almost like my dick takes a certain amount of time and heat to “relax” and hit its max, and it is almost as much length with 5 in hg and 30 minutes, as dynamic pumping for similar time, but cycling up to 15 in hg. As you know, not only is the higher vacuum more dangerous, it can “toughen” the penis and potentially make gains completely stop as the tissue gets really tough.

So, what I want to experiment with, is to use your method, with my IR lamp over 20-30 minutes to get to max length under 5 in hg, THEN use some time at the end with higher vacuum levels to get that little bit of “tissue stretch” to just go a little over the previous max, while the tissue is nice and relaxed and hot, and let it cool down in that max length, as best as possible without causing major hemorrhages. Use the low vacuum to get to 98%, then using the high vacuum just to get that little bit of stretch. Hopefully, this will allow me to start making new length and girth records, without toughening the tissue. Ideally, this will give me “best of both worlds”

It would be a lot like “jelquing” combined with pumping, but you can precisely control the perimeters of the “jelquing”. The jelquing allowing a higher force level to take you past where moderate vacuum forces stop. So pump to relax and stretch, and “jelque” to go a little bit beyond that each time, just enough to gain without creating a “rebound” or toughening effect.

Anyway, I experimented with that today, and I noticed something I have seen only a couple times in the past. Its almost like there is a lot of edema in the penis, but its NOT IN THE SKIN! It stays fat and enlarged for a much longer period of time, but there is very little in and under the skin, its like the edema is in the cellular and inter-cellular spaces! I consider this ideal, almost like taking creatin for muscle gains. It hydrates the cells, expanding them, which in turn stimulate cellular growth.

As you know, most guys get girth gains from pumping but only a smaller percentage get length gains also. I believe with this, I can get both. By the way, I have set up my aquarium AND dynamic pump up together so I can go from moderate, long time pumping directly into dynamic “stretching” for the last part to get new length….it works awesome! I also adjusted the vacuum rate down, so it takes about 20-30 seconds to achieve max level, and I agree with Mr Fantastic, this seems to be much more productive than a fast vacuum cycle. He states 20 seconds up and 20 down is what they (him and his friends) found to be best. He also likes to put max value at 10 in hg, which is also very sensible.

What have you noticed when you know you have “nailed” a perfect PE workout?

So much to comment on here !
First the skin problems, I have the same issue with bruising.
I discovered early on that I cant use high pressures or even what most people consider normal IE about 5”hg ! even a couple of minutes will cause red spots.
When I came back to pumping after trying a few other things I started with 2.5”hg and was surprised to see that I got just as much expansion in the tube as I used to get with 5, plus it felt a lot more pleasant.
The only thing is it takes a bit longer and that was my second problem, anything over 10mins even at 2.5”hg and dots would appear so for a long time I kept my sets to 10mins and just did lots of them working up to an hour.
Great expansion but no gains !

What you say about the tissue taking time to relax has been a key thing.
I noticed doing multiple sets that during the first one I would feel a good stretch but with each subsequent one the feeling was less and less, as I got no gains doing this it started to bother me, it felt like the first 10mins were effective but the rest were just wasted.
So I tried a 30min set, fantastic stretch the whole way through but loads of bastard dots again. This was when I started trying short pressure breaks.
Initially I took a minute break every 10mins, dots were less, then every 7mins and finally every 5mins.
Then I reduced the break time from a minute to 30secs and finally 15secs.
This has allowed me to stay in the tube for an hour if needed with no dots and still keeping up that stretch feeling.

What I then noticed was around 30mins I would feel the tunica kind of give in and relax and that’s the point where I start to see the real expansion ! my gut feeling is it’s after this point that progress is being made.
I suspect it takes that long to reach the elastic limit if the tissue and start impacting the fibers either by them denaturing or breaking.
I think maybe the dynamic pumping shortcuts this initial period through brute force which is what puts me off .
What you’re trying for length could work well as you’re using the higher forces after you reach that 30min relaxed point where I think you’re into the plastic region.

If we disregard edema I guarantee you can get as much real expansion through low pressure as you can with high it just takes longer.

My criteria for a good workout, I go by the feeling during it. If I can achieve a good stretch that feels good I know later my EQ will be great.
For me a good pumping session should feel like a good edging session.
Other than that a good workout gives me amazing NW.

Besides great nite wood, what else do you see after a good workout? For example, what I saw today was like my dick was filled with edema, but the skin was tight! I think this may be an important indicator, whats your take and what else do you notice?

I remember a quote from Ron Jeremy, who was a big pumping fan…” less than an hour is a waste of time”. I may have gotten that wrong, but I seem to remember him saying that. IF we are correct, that guys like us need at least 30 minutes, it would be interesting what an hour could do if we could keep edema and bruising away! Those types of times were always just a dream for me, even at 3 in hg, but now with cycling down, I may try it!

Dynamic pumping obviously works for some as a starting method, who knows it may work even better to use after the “relaxation” point…I plan on finding out. But you are right, I also find that if I try to “force” the lengthening before I relax the tissue, it takes 15 in hg instead of the 3-5! That’s why I am curious to use the higher forces after the relaxation to just stretch it a “bit” and stress out the tissue.

I am very excited for us and also the info we can pass on to others to try!

Definitely keeping a close eye on this thread and will try to incorporate the principles into my bathmate routine. I always get red dots even at 15 minutes so I need to do intervals. Exciting and interesting stuff guys.

I notice the same, excellent expansion and zero edema, very different to my experience with higher pressures.
I get great relaxed flaccid after a session, much better than I got with shorter sets.
I can’t think of anything else really.

It’s worth mentioning that for a long time I searched for anything I could find on lengthening connective tissue and found a lot of good information from texts on physiotherapy and yoga.
This protocol of constant tolerable stretch for 45mins to an hour came up everywhere as being effective, it’s also what a lot of pumping vets have said for years so I was pretty sure it was the answer, I just had to find a way to manage it without skin
problems.
The short pressure breaks solved it.

Another gem I found said that strains of 3-4% will trigger a healthy re-modelling response but strains of 5% and above will cause inflammation and the consequent toughening of tissue through the repair process.
Jeez what a fine line to walk !

3-4 % of what? Length? This is critical info, really valuable, so I want to understand what the reference is to.

It’s the percentage strain of the connective tissue in whichever direction it’s being stretched so will apply to length or girth I guess.

I wish I could find the page again, it was a chapter on connective tissue from a book about yoga and it’s somewhere on google books but god knows where!
I’ll have another look.

So I have been doing the dynamic stretching, sometimes combining it with your method Cap…can’t really decide if its better combined or alone. I have been doing daily for a couple weeks, and still getting good EQ, but no real gains in length under vacuum…if anything its taking me longer to get max length under vacuum (LUV).

I think I had told you I was considering the low vac method to get the relaxation, then the dynamic method to get some length gains, and I still think that make a lot of sense if you want both length and girth. I am going to take the weekend off and then try one on and one or more off and see what happens with that.

I keep going back in my mind to some of the big gainers that stress daily is critical, but as you an I both know, that doesn’t work for everyone. So, I gave it two straight weeks, now I will do the days off thing and see what happens. Perhaps if you cut the time down enough, but really it seems like there is a minimum time needed, like 30 minutes to get the magic to happen. IF that is the case AND you need more recovery, then you are forced to add rest days.

I have used fairly high vacuum for brief periods (don’t even think about trying this unless you read all the warnings that go with it) up to 15 in hg. And there is a big possibility that I am toughening my dick with it, but I’m ok if I don’t get any bigger, pretty happy with where I am at, so I am willing to risk it.

I have been getting a much heavier flaccid hang, and seem to have increased girth, but it could just be from the pumping…with no days off. It will be interesting after a weekend off how it looks.

Anyway, still think heat up, low to mod vacuum force for about 15 minutes to get relaxation, then 15 min dynamic with the last 5 minutes without the IR lamp to let it cool down at max length.

I have been getting some reddening of my skin, which is like microscopic red dots, and I am afraid if I continue it will lead to darkening. So, I broke out the ol’ htw (hair tie wrap) and experimented with pumping with that on, kinda’ like a super condom as in condom pumping. That seemed to make a big difference, so I will add that to my experiments next week.

Anyway, thats where I am at with all this, how is it going for you Cap, and anyone else experimenting with this method?

Check this.
Old But Interesting

See if you can find on what this 4% is calculated : resting length; habitual length?

I’ve recently come to realise that the biggest mistake I’ve made over the last 4 years is overtraining !

This is a reminder for myself.

Take regular days off you idiot !

:D Right up there with use heat.