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Water Pumping: Alternating Hot & Cold

Originally Posted by LongVehicle
It’s great to see you posting again. I think I have been making gains, but I have not been recording them yet. What have you been up to? Have you continued water pumping? :D

I’ve been cycling between wrapped clamping and water pumping. Still trying to figure out if 14 days straight is better or 5 on with 2 off. I am currently in a 14 day cycle, after which I will take off about 5 days.

I tried cold pumping afterward, and wasn’t that impressed, but I may try it again and give it longer. I’m really glad you helped the guys discover water pumping, I really think it is a very effect and safe method of PE. I think its far safer than clamping, ulis and other potentially high pressure PE. I think the worst that can happen is water blisters, but that’s just my opinion.

The other good thing is that it is far more effective for length gains than air pumping, again IMO.

What I will mention is I found that wrapped clamping not only prevents discoloration, but actually gives greater post PE length for me than water pumping or hanging with up to 7.5 lbs…and that was a surprise. If you ever cycle back to clamping, give it a try. In the mean time I will try some more cold water pumping and see if I get the same results posted here. I did notice far less edema, which is good, but not the increased LUV, but really didn’t give it a fair shot.

Chow brother!

Originally Posted by sparkyx
The other good thing is that it is far more effective for length gains than air pumping, again IMO.

True statement, I think. Water pumping helped me to jump start my length gains back again. Thanks LV and sparkyx for sharing your knowledge and experience! Now, back to pumping…


Penemanual.com nos está robando

What we want we must create.

Sparkyx,

What exactly is wrapped clamping?

I just finished 7 weeks of hanging (0.2” length gain”) and will now focus on girth, mostly because I do not have the time for a dedicated hanging routine anymore.

The initial plan was clamping using OLF/OLR as a framework, but I might consider water pumping as well, even though it seems that where WP really shines is for length work?

What do you guys think?

Water pumping is more comfortable and safer, but may also be more time consuming.

Originally Posted by sparkyx
I’ve been cycling between wrapped clamping and water pumping. Still trying to figure out if 14 days straight is better or 5 on with 2 off. I am currently in a 14 day cycle, after which I will take off about 5 days.

I tried cold pumping afterward, and wasn’t that impressed, but I may try it again and give it longer. I’m really glad you helped the guys discover water pumping, I really think it is a very effect and safe method of PE. I think its far safer than clamping, ulis and other potentially high pressure PE. I think the worst that can happen is water blisters, but that’s just my opinion.

The other good thing is that it is far more effective for length gains than air pumping, again IMO.

What I will mention is I found that wrapped clamping not only prevents discoloration, but actually gives greater post PE length for me than water pumping or hanging with up to 7.5 lbs…and that was a surprise. If you ever cycle back to clamping, give it a try. In the mean time I will try some more cold water pumping and see if I get the same results posted here. I did notice far less edema, which is good, but not the increased LUV, but really didn’t give it a fair shot.

Chow brother!

Sparkyx,

I have to thank you for telling me about it! Your posts on my log, as well as sta-kools, were very helpful - I needed that push to try it. But since I have, I’ve been perfecting my use of it over time and really feel, as you do, that it is a relatively safer and highly effective stimulus. Additionally (and the point of this thread), I’ve discovered that it’s effect can be modified heavily by use of heat. This doesn’t sound like such a big deal, but keep in mind that one really cannot use moist heat effectively in ANY other form of PE, and the same goes for cold while PE’ing. The only other possible path is manual PE, but using moist heat while performing manual PE is quite difficult and never as effective as this - and using cold is almost impossible. Note that the thread are always about cool downs, I believe this is really simply because cold workouts were previously almost impossible (very difficult to do effectively - with the application of ice packs).

I have your wrapped method on my list. It does sound quite interesting. I believe that I have also made the decision to purchase an air clamp. Have you been using one? It seems to be less of hassle.

I have not noticed an increased LUV, heat still gets me the highest LUV. What I have noticed is that I can often achieve the same, or slightly lower, LUV as heat with MUCH less of the in-tube girth - this is what makes me understand why some might note a higher LUV.

I am, however, suspicious that those noting higher LUV’s may not be using heat effectively. Please keep in mind, folks, that when I am talking of heat now I am talking about hot water + the IR lamp. The IR lamp is very critical - I believe firegoat was right in contrasting it to any other heat source. If I remember correctly, he ranked IR lamps as the second best heat source, after moist heat. Here I am using both.

There may be a benefit to not using an IR lamp throughout, though. In a half hour set, if one does not use an IR lamp or only uses it at the start, the temperature will gradually decrease such that the penis slowly gets longer as the heat runs out - this is essentially like what firegoat does in keeping it extended after a heat workout until it reaches room temperature. This might be better than moving from the hot set to a cold set as it is continuous - just a possibility that I wanted to mention.

Originally Posted by caldera
True statement, I think. Water pumping helped me to jump start my length gains back again. Thanks LV and sparkyx for sharing your knowledge and experience! Now, back to pumping…

Sparkyx is the one to thank :D . This is all due to his innovative and open-minded research in PE.

Originally Posted by Renholder
I just finished 7 weeks of hanging (0.2” length gain”) and will now focus on girth, mostly because I do not have the time for a dedicated hanging routine anymore.

The initial plan was clamping using OLF/OLR as a framework, but I might consider water pumping as well, even though it seems that where WP really shines is for length work?

What do you guys think?

Water pumping is more comfortable and safer, but may also be more time consuming.

I had better results with water pumping through the OLF/OLR framework, always. The fact that it is more length focused is not the major issue, the issue is that it damages blood vessels in a similar way to clamping and the jelqing of Equine Rooster, for example. The only time I think the OLF/OLR paradigm for analysis might not work is in a purely length focused PE routine (consisting of hanging or stretching). Here the tunica does not become inflated in a comparable manner.

I don’t think mixing them is easy, simply because of the amount of fatigue you will incur, quickly. The danger is incurring fatigue too quickly, such that not enough of any individual stimulus is taken in once you reach your fatigue threshold. I’m not sure if this will occur, but it’s something to consider.

Water pumping may be slightly more time consuming than clamping (clamping is the least hassle PE method, IMO), but that is barely noticeable.

Originally Posted by LongVehicle
I have your wrapped method on my list. It does sound quite interesting. I believe that I have also made the decision to purchase an air clamp. Have you been using one? It seems to be less of hassle.

After breaking about 3 cable clamps in one weeks time, I decided to try a metal hose clamp with a attached key.

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/d…N0189&ppt=C0075

I have to say that I find it FAR superior to cable clamps in that it is INFINITELY variable. The ability to make tiny adjustments makes a huge difference in trying to find the exact best compression. PLUS obviously you will never break it. You MUST use padding under it, I find neoprene works great, you can use a cut up neoprene mouse pad. I still have Thera-P wraps that work great.

I’m sure the inflatable clamp is great, but I found the metal clamp really excellent.

Originally Posted by LongVehicle

I have not noticed an increased LUV, heat still gets me the highest LUV. What I have noticed is that I can often achieve the same, or slightly lower, LUV as heat with MUCH less of the in-tube girth - this is what makes me understand why some might note a higher LUV.

I am, however, suspicious that those noting higher LUV’s may not be using heat effectively. Please keep in mind, folks, that when I am talking of heat now I am talking about hot water + the IR lamp. The IR lamp is very critical - I believe firegoat was right in contrasting it to any other heat source. If I remember correctly, he ranked IR lamps as the second best heat source, after moist heat. Here I am using both.

There may be a benefit to not using an IR lamp throughout, though. In a half hour set, if one does not use an IR lamp or only uses it at the start, the temperature will gradually decrease such that the penis slowly gets longer as the heat runs out - this is essentially like what firegoat does in keeping it extended after a heat workout until it reaches room temperature. This might be better than moving from the hot set to a cold set as it is continuous - just a possibility that I wanted to mention.


My personal experience is high heat really kicks up the edema. Its a bit deceiving in that you might just have a small amount under the skin, but it will greatly increase measured girth…and its a false reading. I also find edema in the glans will significantly increase the bpfsl reading also. Overall, I still believe that its best to try and limit edema.

I think guys ( I KNOW) have different percentage of elastin in the tunica. For guys with a lot of elastin, they get the big expansion even without edema. For guys with very little (like me) I don’t usually get big changes in max pumped size, and if I do get big changes, there is edema also, so I suspect even though it doesn’t seem like it, most of the gains are edema.

So, for me, the perimeters I am working with right now is to get max expansion WITHOUT much edema AND keeping EQ fairly high.

That translates for me right now as about 15 minutes of clamping or water pumping at a fairly high level of pressure or almost max LUV. I am getting a “feel” for the right vacuum level in water pumping, and it translates to about 1/8 to 1/4 inch below max BPEL. However at that level of vacuum, more than 15 minutes will result in too much edema or decreased EQ.

I can drop the vacuum level, but length will not move much at lower levels. I can increase the time, but edema starts to go up and EQ starts to go down. So, these are the perimeters I am working with. OH YEAH, the other perimeter is a level where I can pretty much do PE daily. I think that it seems like its best to do daily, for a period of time (14 days?) then take about 5-7 days off. I’m not certain of that one yet, but I’m “leaning” in that direction.

Anyway thats the current experiment. I will use either water or clamping while they seem to be effective within the above stated perimeters;
1) minimum edema
2) allow high EQ
3) high enough to be increasing LUV slightly each week
4) ability to do daily for at least 14 days and not crash EQ

When it seems like the effectiveness is dropping I switch off to the other method. Also, at times with clamping I can start to get feelings in my dick like the tissue is getting stressed too much in an area, like if I keep it up, something is gonna “give” out. When I feel that, I go to water pumping. The other great thing about water pumping is you NEVER get the feeling like some of the tissue is going to blow out or rupture. So, it seems (at least for me) that I get more effectiveness rotating back and forth. HOWEVER, I am not getting the gains you are currently getting, so take my observations with a grain of salt. I’d stick with what you are doing if I were you!

I just want to note that right now I am trying to get both length AND girth, so it requires higher pressures and LUV. If I was only trying for girth, I could lower my LUV and pressures and INCREASE time. That would probably result in greater girth gains than this approach. I really think girth responds well to increased time.

I’ll let you know if your interested and I remember, in the meantime, keep up the really excellent work.


Last edited by sparkyx : 04-09-2010 at .

I’ve one more question guys, do I simply fill the tube full of water(max without air space), put my unit in, and start pumping like usual?

Thx in advance

When it comes to discoloration caused by high pressure clamping one should think that a set of iced water pumping afterwards could possibly turn the color back to normal again?!?

I noticed that I get some discoloration with hot water in the first set. Afterwards another set with cool water including little ice cubes swimming around in the tube brings things back to a healthy pinkish appearence. I imagine a similar effect following a clamping work out. I’m going to try this tomorrow.

Any thoughts?


Penemanual.com nos está robando

What we want we must create.

Originally Posted by sparkyx
Method to PREVENT clamping discoloration

What I find is it slightly restricts girth gains (maybe not), but it prevents discoloration, blood vessel damage and enhances length gains.

Thanks sparkyx. Discoloration has not been a huge issue for me, but enhanced length gains got me intrigued.

Originally Posted by LongVehicle
I had better results with water pumping through the OLF/OLR framework, always. The fact that it is more length focused is not the major issue, the issue is that it damages blood vessels in a similar way to clamping and the jelqing of Equine Rooster, for example. The only time I think the OLF/OLR paradigm for analysis might not work is in a purely length focused PE routine (consisting of hanging or stretching). Here the tunica does not become inflated in a comparable manner.

I don’t think mixing them is easy, simply because of the amount of fatigue you will incur, quickly. The danger is incurring fatigue too quickly, such that not enough of any individual stimulus is taken in once you reach your fatigue threshold. I’m not sure if this will occur, but it’s something to consider.

Water pumping may be slightly more time consuming than clamping (clamping is the least hassle PE method, IMO), but that is barely noticeable.

I will choose one of the methods exclusively then. Since I already bought an air clamp and would need a bigger tube plus IR-light for serious water pumping, I`m leaning towards clamping.

What would you choose, being experienced with both methods?

And how would you go about water pumping for girth? Would you still add cold water sets?

Clamping just seems so easy and much less time consuming (3-4 X 10 minutes vs several 20-30 minute sets).

Thanks in advance,

Renholder

Originally Posted by caldera
When it comes to discoloration caused by high pressure clamping one should think that a set of iced water pumping afterwards could possibly turn the color back to normal again?!?

I noticed that I get some discoloration with hot water in the first set. Afterwards another set with cool water including little ice cubes swimming around in the tube brings things back to a healthy pinkish appearence. I imagine a similar effect following a clamping work out. I’m going to try this tomorrow.

Any thoughts?

Discoloration from water pumping is usually just temporary, shake your dick hard and/or do helicopter spins and it disappears immediately.

Discoloration from high pressure pumping is the forcing of blood into the tissue where the hemosiderin stays permanently and “tattoos” it there permanently…not the same.

Originally Posted by sparkyx
I’m sure the inflatable clamp is great, but I found the metal clamp really excellent.

That does sound useful - the discrete number of clicks that we can use on cable clamps is actually a bit of a problem. I think the air clamp might be useful as well, I will see about ordering it soon.

Originally Posted by sparkyx
My personal experience is high heat really kicks up the edema. Its a bit deceiving in that you might just have a small amount under the skin, but it will greatly increase measured girth…and its a false reading. I also find edema in the glans will significantly increase the bpfsl reading also. Overall, I still believe that its best to try and limit edema.

This is true - heat does kick up the edema for sure, and cold cuts it down even further. However, heat seems to also increase the level of true expansion, so I am taking it.

Keep in mind that even with hot water and my IR lamp, I am still getting FAR less edema than I would at even lesser pressures with an air pump.

Originally Posted by sparkyx
I think guys ( I KNOW) have different percentage of elastin in the tunica….

Very good post. There are a few important things in your post to comment on:

1. I agree about the particular parts of the penis that can be fatigued by a certain method. This is the reason switching between methods is so useful - fatigue is created somewhat differently, even between pumping and clamping. This is also a reason that your suggestion of minimizing the amount of different stimuli used at once is so important.

2. It’s good that you pointed this out. I have also been under the impression, for quite some time, that the level of true expansion (not edema) differs heavily between the PE’ers we have hear. I guess this does occur due to elastin content.

3. About edema:

It’s interesting, Sparkyx. Now that I look back and consider, I realize that the pumpers here have been chasing edema quite seriously. The problem is that they don’t seem to have clearly broken down the effects of pumping (1. edema, 2. short-term growth from true elastic expansion, 3. true permanent growth), so it wasn’t clear. A good example of this is, if you remember, there was a thread here about tapping the cylinder while pumping. This encouraged better expansion in the tube. How? Clearly, edema. Yet the old pumpers thought this was useful.

I realize you have maintained your belief that edema is negative. I have sort of changed my believe, although of course, I have no real evidence for it. My new belief is that elastic expansion should be chased (maximize elastic expansion), but that the constraint on avoiding edema should be removed. The reason for this is because I realized that many of the big girth gainers seem to have allowed edema to occur. For example, kaan, who gained a huge amount in a short period of time, once took pictures and posted them. His penis was grotesquely malformed due to edema. Big Girtha responded on the thread and told him that that was NOT good PE.

After seeing this thread, I decided to PM Big Girtha myself and determine his current views on edema. I was surprised to find that he had sided with the people who accept edema. His PM made me realize that the biggest girth gainers seem to allow edema to set in. They pursue true tunica (elastic) expansion to the degree that edema sets on, and then move past it. I have included, below, a part of the PM correspondence between BG and I. There is nothing personal here so I expect Big Girtha would be okay with it being posted:

Originally Posted by Big Girtha
Originally Posted by LongVehicle
BG,

I’ve got a question. After gaining approximately 1.75 inches in EG, I stopped my girth work due to stagnation for about 3-4 months. I’m considering going back in, shooting to reach 7 (I’m currently at 6 EG).

Last time around, I worked to try to limit lymph fluid build up (edema, mushrooms, etc.). I always regarded the fluid build up as a negative thing for girth work, as it isn’t true tunica expansion. Recently though, after reading your private messages about reaching 8 EG after girth workouts, I realized that to achieve that much temporary expansion, you MUST be getting a lot of lymph build up, right?

Have you tried to avoid lymph build up in your girth training? Do you see it as a negative thing? I remember reading a post of your’s on one of kaan’s thread. He has posted a picture of his penis after his clamping sessions (ridiculously high lymph fluid build up), and you commented that that was not the proper way to expand the penis for girth work, so I thought you worked like I do with girth, but the 1 inch temporary expansion is making me think you’re doing something that I’m now (maybe lymph build up isn’t negative?).

LV.

Actually I now believe fluid buildup is good, in fact I know it is. I’ve completely changed my views on this over the years for several reasons, one is from medical advise, another is because I love how the fluid buildup locks my peweights on so they can’t slip off when I run or swim, which I feel has greatly contributed to my flaccid length gains, but mostly I like it simply for the visual.

But I’m sure you are probably more interested in the medical reasons, so I’ll tell you what my urologist explained to me about it. I don’t know if you’re privy to any of my “Doc Stories”, but my doctor is very hip to PE and is a silent member of the forum. She has been my doctor for over 10 years and has personally witnessed my gains over the years, and she is the only urologist I know that will agree that natural PE works, although she still argues that it is dangerous. But this is her take on fluid buildup as is applies to the craft.

As I’m sure you know, there are many reasons the body produces lymphatic fluid. But as it relates to PE this fluid buildup acts as a layer of padding between the skin and the tunica. So this thickening under the skin serves to protect the inner structures when we beat our dicks to a pulp with PE routines. It also helps wash out some discoloration and takes away soreness.

When I first started PE I didn’t like the looks of the doughnut because it always bunched up in a narrow two-inch band right around the circ scar. I call this a “Newbie Doughnut”, because it is a more isolated Lupm, on noobs. After doing a lot of girth work, especially pumping that spot swelling evens out along the shaft giving the faux appearance of an extra inch of girth, or at least it does me. I love this especially for sex. Most women don’t care if a dick is spongy, as long as it’s fat, at least women who can take 8” girth, but even those who have trouble with the thickness love the way it looks and feels in their hands.

This is also a very powerful visual walking around nudist camps in the summer, because I can literally pump and clamp myself into a nice 7X8” flaccid that usually lasts for about 72 hours. But I am a bit of an exhibitionist. So no, I don’t try to avoid it, I enjoy it. The only downside, at least for most guys is, it does cause extra skin growth along the shaft. But for me, any gain is good gain.

Originally Posted by caldera
When it comes to discoloration caused by high pressure clamping one should think that a set of iced water pumping afterwards could possibly turn the color back to normal again?!?

I noticed that I get some discoloration with hot water in the first set. Afterwards another set with cool water including little ice cubes swimming around in the tube brings things back to a healthy pinkish appearence. I imagine a similar effect following a clamping work out. I’m going to try this tomorrow.

Any thoughts?

Sparkyx may be right. I have noticed the discoloration from WP and clamping seems to be very different.

Try Sparkyx’s method of wrapped clamping out. I haven’t tried it, but it seems promising.

Originally Posted by Renholder
I will choose one of the methods exclusively then. Since I already bought an air clamp and would need a bigger tube plus IR-light for serious water pumping, I`m leaning towards clamping.

What would you choose, being experienced with both methods?

And how would you go about water pumping for girth? Would you still add cold water sets?

Clamping just seems so easy and much less time consuming (3-4 X 10 minutes vs several 20-30 minute sets).

I think clamping is the best PE method for girth. Girth is all about tunica expansion, and clamping does that the best, for sure. With that said, I think WP is useful even in a girth routine because you can cycle it in and out as they fatigue the body slightly differently (as Sparkyx mentioned).

I’m not sure how I would use WP for girth, as I have never tried it. Intuitively, I think Sparkyx’s comment above is appropriate (lower LUV, longer time, less pressure). You’d have to experiment.

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