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The Physics of Water Pumping

pumping & stress relaxation

Originally Posted by rootsnatty
Stress relaxation: this is totally irrespective of pressure - I mean there needs to be an initial pressure to create expansion, but then further constant further pressure becomes irrelevant, except as I will discuss below. Static pumping and dynamic pumping cause creep because they utilize constant internal expansion force, so it keeps expanding. The pressure in dynamic pumping might be cycling but the expansion force is still always there, creating constant expansion. If you evacuate just water, the penis will expand by an equal volume, and the only vacuum remaining will be due to the connective tissues elasticity trying to pull back inwards. So it is held at a constant state of expansion, the stress on the tissue then actually becomes less and the residual vacuum from the elastic tissues decreases.

Austfred, I thought of a good parallel:

Think about your slider. To create the initial stretch your turn the nuts. Turning the nuts can generate a TREMENDOUS amount of force as they are essentially a lever: they turn a long way for a small distance of travel up the rods. But after you are in the stretch, no further application of force is required to hold it there. The penis is still under stress, but this lessens over time as it relaxes. In the water pump, the water works like the nuts, you draw some out, it stretches the penis, and because the water cannot expand, it holds it in a constant state of expansion.

Rootsnatty, You are perfectly correct. I should have thought of the extender spring creep analogy.

What probably confused me is the dynamic pumping is a form of pressure relaxation whereby the outside force is periodically relaxed and then reimposed whereas in stress relaxation the penis itself relaxes after a while while stretched to a fixed length, (reducing the external force), not a constant external force. In some ways dynamic pumping is a bit like a jackhammer on concrete. That is why I suspect there is some non-elastic stretching going on at least at the margins. The penis certainly feels as if it has had a workout after a session not unlike the feel after an extender session.

Incompressible (for all practical purposes) water may make this ‘jackhammer’ effect more effective than in air pumping. This thread you have started offers all sort of possibilities to analyse. If there are any hydraulic experts here etc who have a better understanding of the dynamic forces at work please jump in .

Promise I won’t suggest stress relaxation is at work in dynamic pumping anymore.
Austfred

Austfred

Originally Posted by austfred
Rootsnatty, You are perfectly correct. I should have thought of the extender spring creep analogy.

What probably confused me is the dynamic pumping is a form of pressure relaxation whereby the outside force is periodically relaxed and then reimposed whereas in stress relaxation the penis itself relaxes after a while while stretched to a fixed length, (reducing the external force), not a constant external force. In some ways dynamic pumping is a bit like a jackhammer on concrete. That is why I suspect there is some non-elastic stretching going on at least at the margins. The penis certainly feels as if it has had a workout after a session not unlike the feel after an extender session.

Incompressible (for all practical purposes) water may make this ‘jackhammer’ effect more effective than in air pumping. This thread you have started offers all sort of possibilities to analyse. If there are any hydraulic experts here etc who have a better understanding of the dynamic forces at work please jump in .

Promise I won’t suggest stress relaxation is at work in dynamic pumping anymore.
Austfred

Austfred

I think what you have happening with dynamic pumping is fatigue in the engineering sense rather than whats talked about with hanging, as in constanly applying a force to something to slowly break it down.

Dynamic stretch is like a set of small breakages.

Originally Posted by capernicus1
I think what you have happening with dynamic pumping is fatigue in the engineering sense rather than whats talked about with hanging, as in constanly applying a force to something to slowly break it down.

Makes sense. Suspect that’s what allows a jackhammer to break concrete or an earthquake to collapse buildings..

The question then becomes what are the implications of that type of fatigue to PE? For example does it waken tendons allowing them to stretch further and / or does it soften up the tunica? Or are the reverses the case?

Originally Posted by austfred
Rootsnatty, You are perfectly correct. I should have thought of the extender spring creep analogy.

What probably confused me is the dynamic pumping is a form of pressure relaxation whereby the outside force is periodically relaxed and then reimposed whereas in stress relaxation the penis itself relaxes after a while while stretched to a fixed length, (reducing the external force), not a constant external force. In some ways dynamic pumping is a bit like a jackhammer on concrete. That is why I suspect there is some non-elastic stretching going on at least at the margins. The penis certainly feels as if it has had a workout after a session not unlike the feel after an extender session.

Incompressible (for all practical purposes) water may make this ‘jackhammer’ effect more effective than in air pumping. This thread you have started offers all sort of possibilities to analyse. If there are any hydraulic experts here etc who have a better understanding of the dynamic forces at work please jump in .

Promise I won’t suggest stress relaxation is at work in dynamic pumping anymore.
Austfred

Austfred

Haha, just glad to have clarified things for you!

When you dynamic pump what is the frequency? The frequency of going from lowest pressure to highest and back to lowest - how long does that take?

Originally Posted by marinera
Dynamic stretch is like a set of small breakages.

Yes I agreed marinera!

When I dynamic pumping these days I do it in 1 minutes intervals in lets say 5 hg for about 10- 15 minutes. And when I pump up fast to hg level stay there 30 seconds and then I slowly let the pressure go down to zero in 30 seconds then up again.. and so on..


Starting size: 7.48" X 5.51" Currently: 10.1" X 6.4"

Heat is the key!

Jackhammering and breakages sound so appealing when we are talking about our cocks! ;)

Monochrome, I like how you do your dynamic pumping. By doing one minute per pump, including a 30 second hold, you fulfill the requirements for a progressive passive stretch. I think, in your case, progressive passive pumping would be a more appropriate name for what you are doing, but dynamic pumping just has such a better ring to it. ;)

Originally Posted by rootsnatty
Jackhammering and breakages sound so appealing when we are talking about our cocks! ;)

Monochrome, I like how you do your dynamic pumping. By doing one minute per pump, including a 30 second hold, you fulfill the requirements for a progressive passive stretch. I think, in your case, progressive passive pumping would be a more appropriate name for what you are doing, but dynamic pumping just has such a better ring to it. ;)

Yes, I couldn’t said it better myself :-)

I have tried these high “dynamic pumping” techniques when pumping up to pressure fast, then up again in a rhythmic motion sort of. I respond way better to the other technique I said and I alway go up to a hg level that I’m safe and don’t push me to a level beyond safety.

We don’t now what happens inside the tube but we can judge what happens outside the tube..


Starting size: 7.48" X 5.51" Currently: 10.1" X 6.4"

Heat is the key!

Originally Posted by rootsnatty
When you dynamic pump what is the frequency? The frequency of going from lowest pressure to highest and back to lowest - how long does that take?

With the Mr Fantastic pumps you can vary this by varying the pump speed which changes the time it takes to build up the vacuum and a leak valve which adjusts the time it takes for the vacuum to decline. I am currently pumping from 3.5” to 15” Hg using a cycle that takes about 60 sec. I can increase that but am concerned that too long cycles at the vacuums i am using could stress my penis too much.

progressive passive stretching

Originally Posted by rootsnatty
Jackhammering and breakages sound so appealing when we are talking about our cocks! ;

Monochrome, I like how you do your dynamic pumping. By doing one minute per pump, including a 30 second hold, you fulfill the requirements for a progressive passive stretch. I think, in your case, progressive passive pumping would be a more appropriate name for what you are doing, but dynamic pumping just has such a better ring to it. )

Yes but is it any worse than the micro tears mentioned in regard to stretching? Seriously the main concern I have with pumping (including dynamic) is the fluid build up and edemas

Roots, can you tell us more about progressive passive stretching? Not familiar with that concept.

Austfred

Originally Posted by austfred
Yes but is it any worse than the micro tears mentioned in regard to stretching? Seriously the main concern I have with pumping (including dynamic) is the fluid build up and edemas

Austfred

This is the key thing we need to understand as far as dynamic pumping goes, is this type of stretching effective and safe to use ?.
I’m interested in the theory but can’t ignore the fact that the few guys who’ve done it have gained from it !

The frequency can’t be that high when pumping, you don’t pump your penis to max erection in 1 second. At least I hope you don’t. Dynamic pumping has the advantage to carry more fresh blood inside the penis. This is very good for EQ. As far as growth, I think longer sets are better.

Austfred, your frequency of two minutes (I’m assuming this is correct - 60 sec up, 60 sec down) actually puts you in that passive progressive stretch range. Cyclic loading is characterized by relatively rapid loading and unloading, with frequencies in the 15 sec (.067 Hz.) and below range. This cyclic loading pattern is usually followed in vivo by thickening (toughening) of connective tissue. This is easily visible in athletes. They have much thicker tendons and ligaments in the areas that take a pounding in their particular sport due to frequent cyclic loading patterns (every time a sprinter strides, a boxer punches, or a weightlifter lifts). These athletes, unless they specifically work on stretching, have stronger, thicker tendons, but are not greatly more flexible than they would be without the cyclic stretch.

Passive stretches are any kind of stretch that doesn’t involve a muscle contraction. PNF stretching is an active stretch because it involves a muscle contraction at the same time. Most forms of PE are passive stretches. A progressive stretch is one where you continually try and stretch further throughout the stretch. This is in contrast to a static stretch where you stretch and hold at a constant stretched length.

Example: bending over and touching your toes, a stretch for the muscle-tendon complex of the hamstring. When you bend over and feel a stretch when your hands are six inches from your toes and hold it there, you are performing a static stretch. When you continue stretching past that point, trying to actually touch your toes or put your hands flat on the floor, you are performing a progressive stretch.

[QUOTE=rootsnatty]
Austfred, your frequency of two minutes (I’m assuming this is correct - 60 sec up, 60 sec down) actually puts you in that passive progressive stretch range. Cyclic loading is characterized by relatively rapid loading and unloading, with frequencies in the 15 sec (.067 Hz.) and below range. This cyclic loading pattern is usually followed in vivo by thickening (toughening) of connective tissue. This is easily visible in athletes. They have much thicker tendons and ligaments in the areas that take a pounding in their particular sport due to frequent cyclic loading patterns (every time a sprinter strides, a boxer punches, or a weightlifter lifts). These athletes, unless they specifically work on stretching, have stronger, thicker tendons, but are not greatly more flexible than they would be without the cyclic stretch.
[/QUOTE

Good at last we have a number on what’s considered cyclic frequency, 15secs and below, so a 30sec hold is enough to get in the effective range ?
Next question, how does the number of repitions effect the outcome ? Homerjs talked about doing on average 150 cycles.

fluid retention and pumping

Originally Posted by capernicus1
This is the key thing we need to understand as far as dynamic pumping goes, is this type of stretching effective and safe to use ?.
I’m interested in the theory but can’t ignore the fact that the few guys who’ve done it have gained from it !

Capernicus, I believe it is safe as long as you are sensible. I have had some edemas after dynamic water pumping for 60 mins but mainly after I had done some Wantsmore fulcrum stretches earlier in the day as part of my extender routine. I find I can feel the edema coming on and stop the routine short when I get that feeling. Since I became aware of the impact of the wantsmores I have pumped 6 days straight without wantsmores and not got an edema. I still get some fluid retention which funnily enough is most evident in my foreskin (I am uncut). The edemas and the fluid retention seem to subside within 24 hours.

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