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Twisting in Bib Hangers: Not this way.

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Twisting in Bib Hangers: Not this way.

There have been reoccurring reports on shaft twisting inside Bib hangers.

Twisting in Bib
Twisting in the Bib hanger
twisting while in BIB making it impossible to hang

Predominantly oval shaped shafts seem prone to this, and I fall into this category. Add to that a tapered shaft, and hanging with a clamp style hanger will probably get too tricky at some point as pulling force (weight) is increased. It did for me with the Regular Bib, which I had to give up on at around 15#. That was 1.5 years ago, and now I’m giving it a try with a modded Bib Starter.
After experimenting with settings, I found that wide apart on the basal screws works best for non twisting of my shaft. But it can still happen because the angles can’t align perfectly symmetrical. It wasn’t until I read about xenolith’s triangular Bib setting with 2.5” basal screws, and swapped a few notes with him, that I realized his plastic parts are not pre-fixed to the basal screws (xeno hasn’t confirmed this to me; maybe because it seemed too obvious, I don’t know).
Anyway, what I then realized is that I should scrap the hinges and run screws straight through the plastic parts. Structured fundamentally like an AFB but with two basal screws. I have wingnuts on left and right side of the bottom basal screw, and no wingnuts on the top basal screw. What happens, with the top teeth partly or fully engaged, is that the top basal screw will ride along when winging the bottom basal screw nuts. So much actually, that it toes in - instead of out, which I want - that I place two nuts on the top basal screw (inside the plastic parts) to keep it toed out.

With the plastic not not pre-fixed to the basal screws, I prefer to place the skids on a thick book to keep the parts steady and high, and with the shaft in position pinch the plastics together; semi-tighten the top screw, checking alignment and then tightening on the bottom basal screw. Hang a light weight, and then tighten the top screw the last bit.

While I can’t prematurely say I’ve found my silver bullet for hanging high weights, I now no longer twist inside the Bib, at all. I seem to be able to hang longer before numbness creeps in. i second xeno’s report, that triangular settings makes hanging very comfortable. I don’t know when this forehead slap would have come to me, hadn’t he stated that the “basal screws don’t bend”. Thanks xeno!

It’s been a while since the last twisting in BH thread, and I don’t know if everybody else is already modding their Bibs this way. But just in case they don’t, they may want to try it.

rm

I had much difficulty using my Bib (I have an oval-shaped dick) and my solution was to rotate the bib 90 degrees, so the hinge is at one side, rather than at the bottom. The only disadvantage is the shafts of the screws are pointing straight up and get into fights with my hands from time to time, a minor annoyance.

I find this rotated Bib to cause much less discomfort, and slippage is greatly minimized. I can hang with greater weight (now 15 pounds) than before.

-damfino

Originally Posted by Damfino
my solution was to rotate the bib 90 degrees, so the hinge is at one side, rather than at the bottom.

Doesn’t that put pressure on your dorsal nerve?

Real, I don’t understand why you have removed the hinge. The Bibs are about as adjustable as a hanger can be.

Micromanaging angles that the hanger halves meet never did anything to stop my twisting.

What worked for stopping 90%+ of my twisting issue was a combination of having more blood in the CC’s and tightening in several stages to hold the blood in place as the hanger settles in. The hanger rides on blood in the ends of the CC’s.

I’d never wear a Bib sideways.

Wearing a BIB or an AFB for that matter sideways is dangerous. It will only be uncomfortable/painful for a minute or so because the nerves just give in, afterwards you could very well experience a numb dick for a couple days if not more. Be careful!

Could you post a picture of your mod real mcdeal?

Hi real mcdeal. Sorry about not confirming your “forehead slap” :) . There’r two reasons I didn’t, neither of which were that “its too obvious”. The first boils down to me being lazy. Sorry about that. I’m trying to extract myself from talking about technical PE stuff lately. I just want to have fun on the Forum for a while :) . The other reason is that while you’re right about my meaning that the 2.5” bolts (you where right to call them bolts, I was wrong to call them screws) can be run right through without using the hinge in order to make twisting less of a problem with the spread wide triangular configuration that I prefer, I actually ended up going back to using the hinge in order to make on-off easier. The trade-off with using the hinge in the spread wide configuration, as you’re aware, is with regard to twisting, which is not twisting really, but tightening off-center which the hinge causes, but I’ve learned to deal with it effectively by rolling my shaft in the hanger as I tighten it to re-position the 12:00 position of my shaft to coincide with the final position of the closed teeth. This rolling re-positioning is probably not feasible with conventional wraps as depending on the direction of wrap and the direction of roll, one may experience either wrap tightening or wrap loosening. HTWs work great. Piet’s bike inner tube method should work great for this too (trust me Piet, you’ll like the latex inner-tube better than the rubber one). Male external catheters work great too.

I’m very glad you’ve tried the spread wide configuration. I’d be very surprised if you don’t confirm that indeed you have found your “silver bullet” for comfy hanging. I don’t know what wrap you’re using, but if you can find a roll-on type of some sort (HTW, bike inner-tube, male external catheter), you’ll find that you can go back to using the hinge, thereby making on-off a heck of a lot easier, by using the shaft rolling technique, which I think is the best possible way to go. I’ve actually tried all three of these, and find the HTW best because with multiples of them, you generate very effective interior shear couples to take up any shear (which does form) at locations other than at the interface with your skin (ouch). But until you’re into realtively big weights this doesn’t become a real big issue. Any of the roll-on type of wraps will work.

Again, sorry about not replying to your last set of questions. It was bugging me that I hadn’t. I feel better now. I hope you enjoy your new found comfy hanging. Just watch out for falling asleep!


originally: 6.5" BPEL x 5.0" EG (ms); currently: 9.375" BPEL x 6.75" EG (ms)

Hidden details: Finding xeno: a penis tale; Some photos: Tiger

Tell me, o monks; what cannot be achieved through efforts. - Siddhartha Gautama

Damfino,

I can only concur with the advice given against sideways attachment.

hobby,

I read your discussions on twisting (links). There is much sound advice to be found, and it seems some guys have made it work nicely, and others might have kept struggling, like myself.
Maybe I could have made it work 90% of the time; the dick knows I’ve tried. I would definitely explore an idea for a fail safe straight attachment if one came to me.
I will try to explain this one in further detail below, and I will address any direct questions on related issues that are not satisfactory resolved here. I could use a digital camera now :^

Piet,

The diggie is with the girlfriend, and she’s been ex’ed for some time now. I wish I could even say when I can post pics, but I’ll be happy to oblige. Maybe I can dig up some BH pics (Starter preferably, and shot from straight rear and up or down angles) and mess them up with MS Paint.

xeno,

I just saw your post, cheers, it’s good to see you! I’ll get a chance to read your reply here again properly later tonight when I hope to be back.
I read your “IPR Theory based PE training protocol”. Sharp! Hopefully I can make something useful out of it for my own PE practicing. I think I’ll have another glance at the macro. Actually strike that; consider the whole thing printed.
I’m having a micro-r night here, trying not to throw in a piss pull, but let’s not get too technical about that. I hope you’re enjoying the in-between days until scheduled Fibonacci showdown.

The out of the box BH is very adjustable, but for perfect symmetry when toed in or out past a certain degree, the left side hinge screws need to be longer, and the hinge then effectively shifted toward the center which makes it press against the CS and urethra when the settings are as wide - with the shaft settling as inevitably low - as I require for a non twisting attachment.
The second point is being able to make adjustments along the basal screw(s), pre- and in-session, and importantly, independent of other settings (toe in/out)

Plastic half asymmetry is in my personal experience not a twisting issue until toed in/toed out, when it’s increasingly apparent.
Perfect symmetry and wide basal settings work for a perfect attachment. With the top teeth engaged or semi-engaged, the shaft, whether oval or triangular, settles straight as an arrow.

Assembling the parts is easy all the way, and there really isn’t much of a learning curve either for perfecting the attachment. Holding the hanger steady with the skids resting on a flat horizontal surface a few inches higher than the seat, makes the semi-tightening procedure quite easy for me.

When semi-tightening the basal screws (I only actively tighten the bottom basal screw, since I keep the top toed out as described in post #1), holding the end of the opposite side of the screw is necessary. I use two “lock-nuts” on both ends, which is a good enough grip since the resistance is light at this stage. Once semi-tightened, and a glance to verify that the skids are indeed aligned symmetrically, the wingnuts on both sides can be winged simultaneously.

If the skids are not aligned symmetrically, due to the wingnuts running distances and number of rotations not being matched, now is the chance to correct this, before tightening the top teeth screw the last bit.
However, the wingnuts running distances are easily prepared once and for all, so just make sure you rotate the wind alternately in as many turns. Full rotations until the first resistance occurs, then half rotations until semi-tightened works for me. There should be no need for any corrections if preparations are within the margin of tolerance. For a straight shaft with an even wrapping, variables can be virtually zapped.

Again, not as much of practice makes perfect goes in to this as does the very simple preparation of the wingnuts running distances; a preparation which is fail safe if you re-wing the nuts to meet the end nuts which double serve as tightening grip.

For extra tightening within a hanging set, hard tightened top teeth - fully engaged or not - need disengaging ~1-2 full nut rotations, in order to be able to tighten the basal screws ~2x2 rotations. Then reengage the top teeth, if desired.

A tip: I use distances of 5mm between the wingnuts and the plates. This provides excellent grip for my fingers, and makes tightening a lot smoother on my fingertips. The distances are simple sleek (unthreaded) hard plastic cylinders; dimensioned and found in hardware stores.

I suppose I could do better than this without pictures, but Q’s and A’s might help now.

rm

Originally Posted by real mcdeal
…Fibonacci showdown.


:)

Very nice description of a rather difficult thing to describe. The Forum’s lucky you’re not as lazy as me :) .


originally: 6.5" BPEL x 5.0" EG (ms); currently: 9.375" BPEL x 6.75" EG (ms)

Hidden details: Finding xeno: a penis tale; Some photos: Tiger

Tell me, o monks; what cannot be achieved through efforts. - Siddhartha Gautama

xeno,

>The Forum’s lucky you’re not as lazy as me

The regulars keep this place happening, and I believe the boss has been known to drop in once or twice too, while irregulars like myself might be out swinging their new tool.

And exactly where were you being lazy in that IPR post? Like I said, it begs a reread :)

>The trade-off with using the hinge in the spread wide configuration, as you’re aware, is with regard to twisting, which is not twisting really, but tightening off-center which the hinge causes, but I’ve learned to deal with it effectively by rolling my shaft in the hanger as I tighten it to re-position the 12:00 position of my shaft to coincide with the final position of the closed teeth.

Yes, off-center and to a variable degree asymmetry, directly relating to the angle of toe in/out which can be adjusted for at small toe angles, but results in hinge/CS clashing at moderate to high toe angles. At least this is the case with the shaft riding as low and wide as I do it, in order to dodge twisting.
Another thing with the hinge when it’s shifted from its firm position with the left plastic half, is that you get a bent runway for it. Asymmetry loves company.

Any of the settings I use are subject to change. It’s still early days, and I have yet to try HTWs, which I will, but this way - with Theraband wrapping - my shaft sits tight, straight, comfy and ready to hang in no time flat. Same thing with release. It’s before coffee here, and I’m trying to figure what takes you so long to get out of the attachment. Other than falling asleep :)

>This rolling re-positioning is probably not feasible with conventional wraps as depending on the direction of wrap and the direction of roll, one may experience either wrap tightening or wrap loosening. HTWs work great. Piet’s bike inner tube method should work great for this too (trust me Piet, you’ll like the latex inner-tube better than the rubber one). Male external catheters work great too.

I have a scheduled springtime visit to my bike dealer, and probably HTWs in the mail soon. I’ll be dressed in hair ties or latex pretty soon. Kinky enough for me, I don’t know what else you've got in your PE bag, you’re not telling us about ;)

>I’m very glad you’ve tried the spread wide configuration. I’d be very surprised if you don’t confirm that indeed you have found your “silver bullet” for comfy hanging.

It’s very comfy at low weights, and the Starter works A+ for me with these settings, so well actually that I’ve been keeping it with me around the place, just to look at it sitting on a shelf in glorious symmetry. My feeling is that 15# will still be a gentle breeze. I’ve never hung heavier than that previously, even with the Regular.

>Again, sorry about not replying to your last set of questions. It was bugging me that I hadn’t. I feel better now. I hope you enjoy your new found comfy hanging.

You, xeno, shouldn’t feel sorry about a thing. The last days I have read about HTW, non bending basal bolts, IPR. I’d say it adds up to me raising an ale your way by the end of the week.

>Just watch out for falling asleep!

Speaking of which, it’s I-day today. I’ll have that coffee now.

rm

rm and xeno,

Have you both replaced the bottom screws with longer ones. The regular and startor I have both have bottom screws 2 inches in lenght. Are you guys saying that the original screws for the spread wide configuration were replaced with longer ones of 2.5 inch lenght?

GMJ

GMJ,

Yes, I use a 3” at the front basal, and a 3.5” at the back basal, which is the one I adjust; I keep the front basal spread with inside lock nuts at a fixed preferred toe out distance. The extra length for the back basal is not because I keep it set wider, but because it also holds 1+1 wingnuts and an extra 1+1 locknuts on the outside, that plus 1+1 plastic distances of 4-5mm each.

xeno last reported having gone back to using a hinge for quick attachment. Personally, this would be such a minor advantage for the sacrifices made using a hinge. Even if I were to get a perfect attachment with a hinge and not have to try again, the non hinge modification is just as quick for me. And it’s perfect every time.

I have since last post in this thread snipped the padding from the top teeth. Two advantages: 1) Sharper top angle = wider basal angles; 2) No high friction padding to grab my HTW’s, meaning I don’t have to use layers of them to prevent pinching. The naked teeth never pinch on an HTW because there’s not enough friction involved.

Did you receive your HTW’s yet, GMJ?

Please do report back if you try the spread wide Starter + HTW combo. I know you’ve had troubles with wraps and hanging in general, so let’s make sure you get this right. I think you’ll soon find hanging a smooth and easy experience.

rm

edit:

I have since last post in this thread snipped the padding from the top teeth. Two advantages: 1) Wider top angle = sharper basal angles; 2) No high friction padding to grab my HTW's, meaning I don't have to use layers of them to prevent pinching. The naked teeth never pinch on an HTW because there's not enough friction involved.

I’m sure that mess up was understood, but just for the record, it’s a tighter top teeth engagement = a wider top teeth angle. Wider top teeth angle = wider basal gap.

rm,

I recieved an email today from monty saying he has recieved my order and payment and that they will be in post today or tommorrow. Its a few miles between Perth and the US so I shall just remain patient until arrival of my little package.

I understand about what you mean about the gel on the top teeth to allow for a more exaggerated spread wide angle for the same given lower bascal screw settings.

However I must ask you why you mention top teeth nipping concerns. I thought you still aim to put your shaft as low into the shaft well as possible then tighten hence the teeth would not be near the top of the wrapping material and in this case the HTW material.

Can you post those pictures that I think you mentioned previvously when you get your digital back?

Also do the bottom screws bend slightly. I would off thought and this is only thoery on my put at present until the HTW arrives that the bottom screws must be bent to the shit house or the plastic halves must be under real tension???

GMJ


Last edited by Gentle Mr Justin : 05-03-2006 at .

GMJ,

>I understand about what you mean about the gel on the top teeth to allow for a more exaggerated spread wide angle for the same given lower bascal screw settings.

>However I must ask you why you mention top teeth nipping concerns. I thought you still aim to put shaft as low into the shaft well as possible then tighten hence the teeth would not be near the top of the wrapping material and in this case the HTW material.<

No nipping is just a secondary benefit of removing the top padding. You’re right that it’s not necessary and I do place the shaft way down low in the well, but still find that with just a single or two layers of HTW’s, when doing final tightening of the teeth they can still nip because it’s necessary to tighten the basal gap to a certain extent before tightening the teeth all the way. This is due to the extreme angle. With 3+ layers of HTW’s I’ve never had any skin nipping.

>Can you post those pictures that I think you mentioned previously when you get your digital back?<

I still wish I had the camera. I might actually pick up a cheapo webcam just to take some quick & dirty pics from time to time.

>Also do the bottom screws bend slightly. I would off thought and this is only thoery on my put at present until the HTW arrives that the bottom screws must be bent to the shit house or the plastic halves must be under real tension???<

Exactly, if you keep the halves fixed, at extra wide settings they’ll get whisky bent and hell bound.

But you don’t keep them fixed, instead you adjust them with a wingnut on the outside of each half (front or back, depending on your toe in/out preference; the other is kept at a fixed minimum distance with lock nuts on the inside, but moving freely on the outside to allow for easy attachment and release. A few trial and error sets will tell you if the fixed minimum distance is too much or too little; it’s easily adjusted until you get it perfect. Don’t settle for less than perfect: I know it’s much easier to comprehend in detail with pictures, but until then, please keep asking until you get it right.

rm

No nipping is just a secondary benefit of removing the top padding. You’re right that it’s not necessary and I do place the shaft way down low in the well, but still find that with just a single or two layers of HTW’s, when doing final tightening of the teeth they can still nip because it’s necessary to tighten the basal gap to a certain extent before tightening the teeth all the way. This is due to the extreme angle. With 3+ layers of HTW’s I’ve never had any skin nipping.

But you don’t keep them fixed, instead you adjust them with a wingnut on the outside of each half (front or back, depending on your toe in/out preference; the other is kept at a fixed minimum distance with lock nuts on the inside, but moving freely on the outside to allow for easy attachment and release. A few trial and error sets will tell you if the fixed minimum distance is too much or too little; it’s easily adjusted until you get it perfect. Don’t settle for less than perfect: I know it’s much easier to comprehend in detail with pictures, but until then, please keep asking until you get it right.

rm
[/QUOTE]
rm,

I am alittle confused, but BTW I have not tried wide angle settings adj. yet cause I am waiting for HTW to arrive. My expereinces over the last three years have lead me too thinking that if one stuffs up their wrapping then the flow on effect from that point is a bad hanging session regardless of what setting they have on their BIB hanger.

Now to my confusion. You are saying that you first tigthen one of the bottom bascal screw wingnuts to snug in the RHS half until the plastic touches up to the nut on the inside and this nut has its own locknut to prevent you from losing your particular setting. Then you finally snug up the upper wingnut for final tightening procedure.

Is that what you explained in previous posts above? Also I have never noticed any of xeonilth’s posts saying it that way. DId I miss something in his referrences to spread wide confrigurations?

Thanks in Advance rm

GMJ

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