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Testing LOT Theory

Uh … yes, I paid for it. Silly me. I should have asked first. Thanks for the offer!


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Guys,

The article arrived. I’ve just started reading it, but I can already say that it is a MUST READ for anyone interested in PE. It shows diagrams, actual dissection shots, and MRI’s of the penis and ligs. It provides probably the most thorough description of the ligs I have ever seen.

I can’t post it here because it’s copyright protected. However, if you have free access to PubMed (PG) or can spare the $25 to have them send it to you, I can assure you it will be well worth your while.

MM


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That’s OK, I’ll just wait for the short version. That ModestoDude is bound to write about it soon, he just can’t help going on about his latest finds.

;)


regards, mgus

Taped onto the dashboard of a car at a junkyard, I once found the following: "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." The car was crashed.

Primary goal: To have an EQ above average (i.e. streetsmart, compassionate about life and happy) Secondary goal: to make an anagram of my signature denoting how I feel about my gains

OK, Mgus. Here you go.

Here’s a quick summary of what I think this article shows:

1. The fundiform ligament does not actually attach to the shaft but appears to comprise two halves that pass around the shaft and rejoin on the ventral side just above the scrotum. The authors state that it’s role appears to be to keep the scrotum pulled forward, but that it has little to do with suspending or orienting the penis, either when flaccid or during erection.

2. The suspensory ligament, from the front, is shaped like a triangle; it is narrower at the top and wider at the bottom. It includes a medial portion that splits in half and attaches directly to the tunica on either side of the dorsal vein. It also includes lateral portions that attach to the sides of the tunica and completely surround it, like a sling.

3. The suspensory ligament attaches posteriorly to the pubic symphysis. Its attachment spans a length 37mm (+/-5mm) along the PS.

4. The suspensory ligament is seen to hang down considerably from the PS. It is hard to say how much. In the dissection, it appears to hang down by an amount approximately equal to the width of the flaccid penis (See Figs. 3a and 3b). The subjects for dissection were about 80 years old, so this length may be a function of their age. However, the MRI’s shown in Figs. 5c and 5d confirm that a substantial distance is maintained between the shaft and the front of the pubis for a living and presumably younger subject. Surprisingly, this distance appears to be maintained when the penis is erect.

5. Another ligament joins the shaft to the pubis, toward the very bottom of the pubis. This is called the arcuate subpubic ligament (ASL). The ASL appears to be relatively short and dense compared with the the suspensory ligament.

6. The role of the suspensory ligament (and the ASL) is primarily to keep the penis properly positioned and oriented when flaccid. Among other things, this helps to protect the penile nerves during walking.


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The dissection shots made me gag (: , but I agree that it is a very helpful article.


Please :donatecar to Thunder's Place to keep it running.

>arcuate subpubic ligament

New one to me. Maybe you can pencil it in on an existing drawing.

>3. The suspensory ligament attaches posteriorly to the pubic symphysis. Its attachment spans a length 37mm (+/-5mm) along the PS.

How long is its attachment to the penis shaft lengthwise? Near as I could tell from pictures at your link here, the suspensory lig attaches to a relatively small area of the shaft.

Originally Posted by ModestoMan

2. The suspensory ligament, from the front, is shaped like a triangle; it is narrower at the top and wider at the bottom. It includes a medial portion that splits in half and attaches directly to the tunica on either side of the dorsal vein. It also includes lateral portions that attach to the sides of the tunica and completely surround it, like a sling.


If I understand you right, the attachement of the suspensory lig is all around the shaft, top, sides, bottom? And these attachments then go around the sides and fan out in a triangular shape towardst he pubic bone? I have felt the triangular shape and that the ligs seem to wrap down around the sides, but underneath was new to me.

Thanks, ModestoMan. Now what? I mean, what do we learn from this in respect of making things longer and wider?


regards, mgus

Taped onto the dashboard of a car at a junkyard, I once found the following: "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." The car was crashed.

Primary goal: To have an EQ above average (i.e. streetsmart, compassionate about life and happy) Secondary goal: to make an anagram of my signature denoting how I feel about my gains

Here is my non-artistic sketch of what this paper shows. The top drawing is your traditional sagittal view. However, here, you can see the arcuate subpubic ligament right at the base of the PS.

The bottom drawing is a dissected front view, which shows the lig bundles of the fundiform and suspensory ligaments. The arcuate subpubic ligament is not shown.

Hobby: The paper doesn’t state the length of the suspensory ligament’s attachment to the shaft. But from the sketch, I gather it’s about the same as the attachment to the PS—37mm, give or take. The dissection views can be misleading because they only show you the front of the ligaments. In reality, I think they extend back along the shaft and PS and hang down like sheets or curtains running parallel to the shaft. You don’t really see this because you’re looking at them edge on.

Mgus: The apex of the triangle attaches to the PS. The base attaches to the shaft, and the outer fibers actually wrap around. “Triangle” may be misleading, as well. It’s more like a triangular prism. The ligament is triangular in cross section, but actually extends some distance between the PS and the shaft, along the length of the PS. If I understand this correctly, the height of the prism is about 27mm.

Attached Images
LigSketch.png
(28.7 KB, 370 views)

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Last edited by ModestoMan : 04-05-2005 at .

Is the fundiform ligament located forward towards the glans? I always pictured it - and thought I felt it - underneath and behind (towards the base) the suspensory ligs.


regards, mgus

Taped onto the dashboard of a car at a junkyard, I once found the following: "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." The car was crashed.

Primary goal: To have an EQ above average (i.e. streetsmart, compassionate about life and happy) Secondary goal: to make an anagram of my signature denoting how I feel about my gains

Originally Posted by mgus

Now what? I mean, what do we learn from this in respect of making things longer and wider?

Good question. My first goal here is to build a good model. From there, I can start making predictions. Feel free to get a head start on that if you want to.


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Originally Posted by mgus

Is the fundiform ligament located forward towards the glans? I always pictured it - and thought I felt it - underneath and behind (towards the base) the suspensory ligs.

I realize that the top and bottom drawings seem to show different things. I’m just sketching what the paper showed. I’d be more likely to trust the bottom picture. The fundiform ligament starts out more forward than the suspensory lig—it actually springs from the linea alba (center line of the ab muscles). It appears to pick up some connections from the pubic bone, and then reach back and encircle the base of the penis.

From the dissections, it appears that the fundiform lig is slightly further forward than the suspensory lig, but is also significantly further outside. What you’re feeling toward the center axis of the penis (near the dorsal vein) is probably the suspensory lig. What you’re feeling toward the outside is probably the fundiform.


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If I picture this right, the fundiform is kind of like a slingshot extending from below the navel, attaching on the outside of the pubic bone (hidden under that fat pad of mine - that’s why I never noticed) and the slings underneath and back to grab ahold of the shaft underneath and behind the suspensory ligs.

No, that’s wrong - you said it slings underneath the shaft slightly in front of the suspensory lighs? But when I pull my dick I can feel them form a tentshape extending back towards my pubic bone? Then what am I feeling back below under my balls?


regards, mgus

Taped onto the dashboard of a car at a junkyard, I once found the following: "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." The car was crashed.

Primary goal: To have an EQ above average (i.e. streetsmart, compassionate about life and happy) Secondary goal: to make an anagram of my signature denoting how I feel about my gains

Modesto-

Thanks for the sketches, they help a lot. I wonder, are you able to postulate on the which lig bundles are subjected to stress first (from say BTC hanging) and what the sequence of lig bundles are that follow once these are strained?

I’m guessin’ the medial ligs take the stress first, but after that, I dunno.

BTW, what is the “pubic syrrphysis”?

Originally Posted by mgus
No, that’s wrong - you said it slings underneath the shaft slightly in front of the suspensory lighs? But when I pull my dick I can feel them form a tentshape extending back towards my pubic bone? Then what am I feeling back below under my balls?


I don’t know. It’s going to take me a little while to figure this all out, too. Personally, I have trouble feeling any of my ligs.

Originally Posted by Xenolith
I wonder, are you able to postulate on the which lig bundles are subjected to stress first (from say BTC hanging) and what the sequence of lig bundles are that follow once these are strained?

I’m guessin’ the medial ligs take the stress first, but after that, I dunno.

BTW, what is the “pubic syrrphysis”?

When I first started hanging, and for a long time after, I only felt fatigue in my lower abs. I never felt anything directly in front of my penis. This tells me that the fundiform ligs where being hit first, and much harder than the suspensory ligs. Only after hanging BTC for several months did I start to feel anything in front of my penis. Even that was transient and soon passed. Maybe that’s why I never gained doing BTC.

I don’t know that we can make a general rule for this. Different people probably experience different things.

The “pubic symphysis” is a joint in the pelvis where the two ischii (sp?) come together. It’s basically the pubic bone. In actuality, however, it’s not a bone at all. It consists of fibrocartilege. The pubic symphysis (PS) is what the suspensory ligament attaches to.


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Originally Posted by ModestoMan
When I first started hanging, and for a long time after, I only felt fatigue in my lower abs. This tells me that the fundiform ligs where being hit first, and much harder than the suspensory ligs.

That was my experience too, thank you for the explanation of which ligs were “in play”. Subsequent to that, my BTC hanging has resulted in fatigue in the pubic area (and some growth!).

I’m beginning to think more about the potential benefit of UTL hanging…the old “divide and conquer” concept.

Too bad hanging (heck PE, in general) experiments take so long to see results (or lack thereof) from. I guess thats why we pursue theories and models…to predict results of our “experiments”.

Thanks again for your efforts in this regard.

xeno

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