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Possible explanation for slow/no gains

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Very interesting topic and one I just had whilst having a private email to another member, not having seen this thread.

I agree that the ligs have a limiting factor ( have studied the penis anatomy pics here at T’s) it will show that there is only a small amount of false growth there. (surely those tribes men don’t grow all that from loosened ligs!). The real growth is as you said the traction side,(maybe those companies who advertise traction devices do have our dicks at heart and it’s not the money they are after….. all though IMO no where near enough traction for any serious speedily growth) tear it at a microscopic level, keep it in its extended state for as long as possible take in valuable protein and nutrition in general and have good sleep.

I also feel that there is a max weigh needed to trigger these tears and feel also that it is pointless to keep on hanging for hours on end unless the weight is dropped and is used as an ADS ( I feel this is why BIB was so successful, he reported hanging from 7.30 am til 4.30 pm) For the rest of us, time aspect aside, the get in and get out approach makes so much sense, well to me anyway, especially since I also use the same reasoning with BB, it has worked great and seperates me from others down the gym and ensure continued growth. ( I will now start measuring between sets til I see a temporary lengthening, I use approx 20 pounds, this I feel will be the stop watch)

As we all know we don’t grow whilst exercising we grow when we have a positive nitrogen balance and good sleep. That’s why I feel the ADS and nutrition play such important roles, especially if repair whilst wearing an ADS is what we are after.

Again, good topic, I think the LOT theory has its place, but the division of cells via traction/hanging IMO is the key, this would also stop all that hanging on funny angles to hit different ligs, Straight down, good weight til temp elongation ADS and nutrition.

Now if only I had a good reliable ADS, Monty please reply soon.


"If your not growing your dying"

"That which does not kill you only makes you stronger"

Originally Posted by ModestoMan
Good to see you around, MX! I think you’re probably right about remodeling being the real mechanism behind gains, at least where it comes to the dense, collagenous tissue. This is why workout consistency is so important. We always need to be pushing the envelope, so to speak, so that our penises remodel in longer states than their prior ones. “Stretch it and keep stretching it” should be our motto.

The remodeling theory is going to be very good for the ADS business. I always avoided using an ADS during my first round at hanging. It didn’t make sense to me that I needed to keep the micro-tears open. If remodeling is the real growth mechanism, however, an ADS becomes a very important part of one’s overall routine.

My sense is that remodeling works in conjunction with distraction histogenesis. Remodeling may be the underlying mechanism for the really dense tissue, whereas DH may be the mechanism for the softer stuff.

I wonder whether remodeling and DH may be essentially the same thing. I’ll think about that after dinner.


I was pretty much off the radar during my last decon break. It’s good to be back.

I think we are essentially taking about the same process. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong, but as I recall distraction histogenesis is collagen/soft tissue remodeling specifically due to tension created by distraction of bone segments. Whereas in PE, other stresses (stretching, hanging, jelqing, clamping, etc.) provide the stimulus to trigger the remodeling process.


Started: 2/03, Finished: 5/06, Total Gains: 1.375” BPEL 1.5” EG, Details: Progress after a year or longer off?

Only those who attempt the absurd will achieve the impossible—M. C. Escher

Originally Posted by godzila

Now if only I had a good reliable ADS, Monty please reply soon.


What?


09-2003 BPEL:6.0x5.5

11-2004 BPEL:8.25x6.25 . . 9+ by Spring is the goal AIR CLAMP

Now BPEL:8 5/8 x 6 5/8 PE Weights

Originally Posted by MX
I think we are essentially taking about the same process. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong, but as I recall distraction histogenesis is collagen/soft tissue remodeling specifically due to tension created by distraction of bone segments. Whereas in PE, other stresses (stretching, hanging, jelqing, clamping, etc.) provide the stimulus to trigger the remodeling process.

Distraction Histogenesis (DH) refers to the growth of new tissue along lines of applied tension. This includes nerve, skin, blood vessels, and connective tissue. A subcategory of this is distraction osteogenesis (DO), which relates to the separation of bone segments. It’s hard to find links on the web that you don’t have to pay for, but here are a couple:

http://www.uihealthcare.com/news/cu…stractions.html
http://www.emedicine.com/ent/topic765.htm

Remodeling is kind of a broad term, but it’s used primarily to describe the third phase of healing, after inflammation and proliferation.

As it relates to PE, I think remodeling is important because it describes a continuous turnover of tissue. Old collagen fibers are resorbed and others are secreted. This turnover process invites an opportunity for growth if the tissue is under tension, since new, lax fibers can be integrated alongside tense ones. Over time, the tense ones are resorbed and replaced by lax ones, and the tissue lengthens.

I think it’s important to realize that a tissue does not have to be healing to remodel. There need not be an initial injury. I think this is why stretchers work. The light tension works well over long periods of time, even though there is no trauma from heavy hanging. On the other hand, some injury might speed up the process.


Enter your measurements in the PE Database.

Originally Posted by ModestoMan
Another argument against plastic deformation is that, in solid materials this happens very quickly. It makes only a few milliseconds to plastically deform steel. Why should the penis take many 20 minute sets, repeated day after day, to accomplish the same thing? It doesn’t make sense to me. If the penis is going to plastically deform, wouldn’t it do so more quickly?

I think this is solely due to the fact steel doesn’t experience pain. I deform steel frequently at about 4K degrees F.

Originally Posted by sheLovesIt
At this point, skin seems to be the limiting factor. I am not able to get the BIB as tight as before as I am not conditioned yet.


SheLovesIt,
COuld you please explain this point you have made for me. Do you mean that because your skin is tightener than before than the BIB nolonger grips as effectively on the internal structures as it did before?

Just curious because I have just this week returned to BTC hanging after 2 years of OTS hanging. My lot now is up than before it was when I started the upper angles so I am now going to see if I can get any ligment fatigue var BTC. But what I have expereinced so for is that in the BTC position I have tight skin. The skin tightness sensation is differnitly not the feeling of skin burn like it was the first times I used the BIB in BTC postion but it just feels like the skin is taking heaps of the stress and the internals aren’t getting much.

Is that similar along the lines of what you were saying in your above quote?

GMJ

This completely goes along with what people have been stumbling upon over and over again. It’s like we’re getting closer and closer to what really is the holy grail of PE.

I think the KEY element in PE is the state of your penis directly after a PE session. Think about it! You do this exercise and inflict this damage to your penis and then your penis is sitting there healing. Doesn’t it make perfect sense for the shape and state of your penis while this healing is occurring (couple hours after your PE session) to directly affect the WAY your penis heals?

In my eyes, I think it’s critical (if not the most important part of PE) that you don’t let your penis just retract and chill for the rest of the day after your intense session. Do something to your penis after your PE session that keeps it from just going back in afterwards. For example, I’m beginning (on Sunday) to semi-edge for an hour following my workout. I will make sure I don’t ejaculate because this will cause my penis to go limp and therefore leave it in a testosterone-lacking state that just wants to turtle. If I keep a good amount of blood in my penis following a workout session my body will start the protein synthesis (healing of damage) while my penis is half erect and therefore leave some nice solid cemented ERECT gains.

This is why edging alone can lead to some gains (more so in newbies). The penis is left in a state where it’s larger than normal. Expansion occurs and gains are cemented.

Maybe those that only gain flaccid when they want erect gains simply are letting their peter go floppy after a session and then it repairs in floppy mode.

Can I get someone who’s had significant erect gains (above average) as opposed to flaccid gains to tell me the state of their penis following their workouts that led to their gains? Please, I’ve been reading up on this whole deal a lot.

Johhnnno,

Very interesting point you have raised there.

I look forward to others responses.

GMJ

Retraction post-hanging is a natural occurrence and is a reflex or survival mechanism like many other regulatory processes of the body. When trauma applied at sufficiently high levels occurs the body’s defense mechanisms will engage, it is nothing that requires counter-measures to reverse the body’s natural responses.

My hanging rituals are always followed by severe retraction and it has never affected my ability to gain. The damage is done and the process of elongation/erectile lengthening is on the proper course. The physiology is weakened and is being conditioned to respond more favorably (longer) to your existing erectile pressure.

Originally Posted by Gentle Mr Justin
SheLovesIt,
COuld you please explain this point you have made for me. Do you mean that because your skin is tightener than before than the BIB nolonger grips as effectively on the internal structures as it did before?

Just curious because I have just this week returned to BTC hanging after 2 years of OTS hanging. My lot now is up than before it was when I started the upper angles so I am now going to see if I can get any ligment fatigue var BTC. But what I have expereinced so for is that in the BTC position I have tight skin. The skin tightness sensation is differnitly not the feeling of skin burn like it was the first times I used the BIB in BTC postion but it just feels like the skin is taking heaps of the stress and the internals aren’t getting much.

Is that similar along the lines of what you were saying in your above quote?

GMJ


GM,
I should have just said that skin soreness was limiting my ability to hang. Skin was not my limiting factor per se.

Sorry for the confusion.

sheLovesIt

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