A Possible Breakthrough. About TIME !

Thanks Kojak10.

I do not necessarily agree with you. There are two scenarios you must consider before making a blanket statement regarding the effectiveness of ligament stretching. The two scenarios are illustrated in the following drawing (credit to Bib):

Obviously, in the first scenerio, ligament stretching can provide added functional length. The second scenario, however, has very little room for gains caused by ligament stretching.

I do not think the Static Stretcher was extremely effective as a stand-alone PE tool (even though I gained 1/8” in 2 months with it). I noticed I gained that same 1/8” in a three week period when I combined the Static Stretcher with one 30-minute set of hanging daily. It took me 6 months of hanging (at multiple sets with as much weight as I could tolerate) to gain 1/4” in the past.

My conclusion: Static Stretcher by itself is only mildly effective. Hanging by itself is only mildly effective. Combine the two, and you have a winning combo.

My advice to you DB, since you already own the SS, try wearing it all day in addition to the hanging you do at night. You can even continue to do the piss pulls throughout the day if you’d like. I think you will find fatigue never really goes away when you stay extended for the majority of the day. Just a suggestion.

Those drawings misrepresent the anatomy to make lig stretching appear more effective than it is. Bib drew the pubic symphysis as a vertical structure. In reality, it’s closer to horizontal (about 30 degrees to the horizontal).

With pubic symphysis angle this low, all lig stretching can do is lower your attachment point. It adds virtually zero length at any erection angle above horizontal.

Ligs-elongation always made me perplex; there is some practical evidence that elongating the ligs make the penis “go out” of the body? And, could that “outing” be a safe thing? Maybe I misinterpreted something…

You’re right to be perplexed. The long tradition of crediting lig stretching for gains makes no sense at all. The ligs just tie the shaft to the pubic bone. Stretching the ligs just loosens the connection. It has no effect on penis size.

Now, that’s not to say that downward stretching is worthless. Stretching down might be an effective PE technique because of its effect on penile growth—not lig stretching. There also might be some value in loosening the ligs to allow PE induced stresses to reach the parts of the shaft inside the body. They can grow just like the parts of the shaft outside the body. But loosening the ligs doesn’t allow you to “pull out the inner penis.” The inner penis, like the outer penis, has a fixed length. It can be made to grow from PE, but it can never be “pulled out” without causing serious injury to its owner.

Reading your posts always is well spent time.

I want to add something that maybe has some pertinence with the subject of this thread: users of extenders seem always report some gains; now, if we look at the design of the extenders, we can note that they concentrate the tension on the penis; ligaments are little or nothing stretched, because the base of the extender push the base of the penis. In some way this observation sustain the argument that lig elongation haven’t so much role in PE.

But there is the occasional penis enlargement surgery that causes the patient to gain, and this is entirely based on increasing the length of the ligament.

I did read that penis surgery has this results: an average gains in length of about 1,5 cm (3”/5); note this results WITH post-operative stretching or hanging, otherwise the penis will likely become shorter.

I did see that illustration that is posted above in gold_member’s reply at some point during the last four years. I remember being surprised that the suspensory ligament did not run the whole length of the penis. Then as time passed by, I forgot about it. Now, I’m sure that this sounds horrible on my part since I posted this thread and linked together lots of scientific information on permanently elongating ligaments. Still, I must admit that I feel something very much like a cord in my penis when I stretch it at any angle. This “cord-like” feature that runs inside my penis along the top side just beneath the skin, and possibly below other tissue that is slightly thicker than skin, feels very much like a ligament or tendon to me. It begins to get more rigid as my penis extends until it is fully stretched. Also, this “cord-like” feature seems to be THE very object that restricts my penis from stretching to new limits. It seems to be the limiting factor? Is this not the suspensory ligament? I know, the doctors and their illustration aren’t lying, but what else could this be? Could it be the urethra? To the left and right of this cord-like feature, my corpus cavernosa feels like it is not being stretched to a point of stiffness.

I must be humble and admit this. My greatest ability (or desire anyway) is to do research and dig through information for truths. I don’t know it all, yet I assumed that I fully understood penile anatomy. Ah, and we all know what the word “ass-u-me” means. Now I must search the forums and the whole Internet to find out more about the suspensory ligament.

Please, anyone with more information, please post it. Yes, I love finding and sharing information, but as a wannabe scientist, I can’t be biased.

I fully agree with ModestoMan’s opinion about the inner penis, and its role in length gains. I can not see how the root of the penis could be pulled outward without affecting other parts of the reproductive tract, and the pelvic floor. I do think that it is possible that a half inch, more or less, could be moved forward as a “side effect” of extreme hanging, but this should not be something that we seek. Again, this could be a side effect for few if any, but I doubt that it even happens.

About the lengthening surgery, I did read a slight bit of information about it in Gary Griffen’s (it could be Griffin) book, Penis Enlargement Facts and Phallacies. If I remember correctly, the ligs are cut but hanging is also required for a month or two. I believe that ModestoMan’s explanation of total penis growth, both outer and inner, covers what may happen with that surgery. Second, it was mentioned that having the root of the penis surgically advanced was also an option. It has been quite a while, so I remember very little about this information.

It’s very hard to find good information about this stuff online. My belief that the ligs don’t really matter is based largely on the fact that I can stretch my penis at 10 o’clock or so and feel the stress extend all the way back to my pelvic bones, where the crura insert into the ischiopubic rami. If, instead, I felt pulling against my pubic bone, I would conclude that stretching the ligs would help. But that’s not what I feel.

Certainly, I do feel pulling on my pubic bone at lower angles, but those aren’t the angles I normally use for sex, so they’re not as interesting to me. I sometimes feel some pulling toward the sides, and I wonder whether I’ve got some lig fibers attaching in weird places—off center of my pubic bone.

I think the dense cord of connective tissue you feel is actually the dorsal thickening of your tunica. This link might help describe that. Its fibers run from the glans all the way to the pelvic bones (ischiopubic rami). However, some fibers of the tunica’s dorsal thickening extend up and merge with the susp. ligament.

If downward stretching helps to lengthen the dorsal thickening, then I’m all for it. And I suspect that many of the principles that apply to lig stretching will apply to stretching that structure. So, you certainly haven’t been wasting your time thinking about lig stretching. Both the ligs and the tunica are collagenous tissues. What works for one will probably work for the other (although the numbers may be WAY different—the tunica’s one tough mother).

One other titillating fact is that the tunica splits into two sections as the CCs separate inside the body. Each "leg" passes through a muscle (ischiocavernosus muscle) before inserting, tendon-like, into the ischiopubic rami (the bones you sit on). I sometimes wonder whether penile growth inside the body (inner penis, if you like) is the result of stretching these muscles and tendon-like insertion structures.

If this is the case, then some gains can be achieved by alternatively stretching at high angles, to stress these deep connections, and then at lower angles, to stress the connections to the pubic bone. The combination would allow the internal structures to be stretched enough so that new length could appear on the outside. You wouldn’t be pulling the inner penis out. You’d rather be stretching it, so that any resulting growth would be seen outside the body (since the internal attachment points are fixed, any growth has to push the glans forward).

This see-saw technique has been discussed before, by Hobby mostly. I don’t know what luck he had with it.

If it’s possible to summarize this rambling, I’d say that principles of lig stretching certainly may apply to penile growth. It’s either the tunica that responds to the stress or the attachment points. But the results are the same—the penis extends farther out.

If it’s only the attachment points that stretch, this would suggest an upper limit on growth. You can only stress these connections so far before the whole apparatus becomes fragile. If the tunica also grows (and I think it does), then it’s harder to see a necessary upper limit.

Note that, for me, this discussion is mostly academic, since I’ve never gained a smidgen through hanging, despite having labored like a soldier. My gains came from jelqing and stretching.

I wonder if going for this 5.1% strain (ie increase in length) thing measured at erection angles might be tunica or lig irrelevant in a way, as strain is strain (ie no matter what the “material”). So, the 5.1% strain, if it was all in tunica, would require a lot more effort than if was coming from deformation in some ligs or lig-like attachment points, but nonetheless (as long as the same level of strain for each is achieved) the two would be the same as far as resulting in the permanent deformation that is increased length of erect wang.

So in other words, maybe you don’t need to think about what exactly part of structure you are stretching. Rather, just think about getting that 5.1% increase in length at stiffy angle.

Yes, there is a good chance that the information about permanently elongating connective tissues will be relevant for elongating the other tissues since collagen is present in most all of them.

After looking at many anatomy illustrations from links here at Thunder’s it seems that the “cord-like” feature that I’m feeling is either the deep dorsal vein, the top of the septum, or what you’ve described Modesto. Realizing that it may be the deep dorsal vein makes me cringe when I remember the insanely intense stretches that I experimented with.

This idea may work.

I agree. I’m considering using SO angles now more than I have before. Besides, my LOT seems to be at 7:30 or 7. Oh, I really like your LOT Simulator! I just discovered it tonight, even thought I had heard of that thread title before. Considering that, and my error about the suspensory ligament, I feel behind the learning curve here. Yes, the lig is only at the base of the penis. Some illustrations linked to the forum show this clearly.

vkn1, you may be right, permanent elongation may begin to occur after reaching a strain of a certain percentage. Even though we are stretching other tissues besides the ligs, collagen is still a main factor.

It is very possible that the 5.1% threshold will not apply to these other tissues, but I’d put money that it will be between 2% and 7%, since ligaments fail/tear at strains of about 8 - 10%.

I have an idea for actually testing this myself. I will measure my FSBPL before starting a routine. I will measure right after each PE session. After my FSBPL has increased by 5%, I will take a deconditioning break. By measuring the strain so frequently, I will be able to tell if the amount of weight that I am using, or the amount of “time” is producing enough strain/elongation each session. If I’m not seeing at least 1 mm increase after a session, how could I expect to reach a total increase of 5% after many days.

If some permanent increase in my FSBPL in seen after deconditioning, I may opt to shoot for only 4% next time. By doing this it may be possible to find the lowest increase in elongation that causes some “permanent elongation”.

Basically, I still believe that we have to cross a threshold before anything permanent occurs. Other than that, we are just utilizing the elastic ability of connective tissue. I believe that total time under tension will play an important role in the outcome of what happens in the connective tissue.

Perhaps the ligs is just the first stage of PE growth
You can say it is stage one.
Stage two tunica work.
Stage three: softening smooth muscle tissue for more compliance. Example would be to do fowfers, then hang or do manual jelqing or with a jelq device.
Stage four: vasal dilation, with substancs that dilate the arteries of the penis to assist stage two and three.

Objective is to create new tissue memory which involves stage 5: cementing gains.

I believe traction is easier if the penis first softened up with heat and stretching manually or with BTC or fowfers.
Tunica work involves the penis in a different tilt, jelq up,and to the sides.
Ballooning and edging would fall under the dilation aspect as well a herbs and supplements that dilate blood vessels.

So for hangers and pumper it would go simular.
Stage one lig work
Stage two tunica fulcrum hanging
Stage three fowfers before application of ads,hangers and pumps
Stage four edge balloon on off days, take vasal dilators one hour prior to any PE exercise.