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ADS while overtrained?

Healing in an extended state refers to the idea of healing micro-tears; not healing an overtraining injury.


Starting stats NBPEL 6" x EG 4.125" --> Mar 2008 NBPEL 7" x EG 5.25" Current Stats 7" NBPEL x 5.75" EG (Post 1st Round PMMA)

My noose style extender modification

My jelq routine

Originally Posted by Monty:
The concept that healing without any steady stretch will produce healing in the last longest state is wrong. Ligament tissues heal in 3 distinct phases and in the last stage the body will return the tissues that were damaged to their original length.

Take a look at http://www.prolotherapy.org/
……….

Prolotherapy (“Proliferative Injection Therapy”) involves injecting an otherwise non-pharmacological and non-active irritant solution into the body, generally in the region of tendons or ligaments for the purpose of strengthening weakened connective tissue and alleviating musculoskeletal pain. There is conflicting evidence about its effectiveness and it is an experimental treatment.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prolotherapy

Prolotherapy is used to alleviate pain, not to elongate connective tissue.

Originally Posted by Monty:
……..
When you conceptualize that bone can be lengthened by breaking it and then retaining the bone in a traction state the bone grows together naturally but is now longer.
……..

Penis is not a bone.

Originally Posted by Monty:
………..
When you conceptualize that bone can be lengthened by breaking it and then retaining the bone in a traction state the bone grows together naturally but is now longer.

The same principle works here only with softer tissue the damage is not as traumatic as a total breakage as is required in the bone example. Ligaments can be damaged from stress and collagen will come to that point and start wrapping itself around the damaged strings or matrix of the ligament tissues. If they are allowed to proceed normally they WILL cause shrinkage of the surrounding area returning it to its ORIGINAL length. Collagen shrinks as it matures.

False:
<<Intrinsic fibroblast-mediated remodeling of damaged collagenous matrices in vivo

Paolo P. Provenzanoa, b, , , Adriana L. Alejandro-Osoriob, c, Wilmot B. Valhmub, Kristina T. Jensena, b and Ray Vanderby, Jr.a, b a

Department of Biomedical Engineering, University of Wisconsin, Madison, WI, United States bDepartment of Orthopedics and Rehabilitation, University of Wisconsin, Madison, WI, United States cDepartment of Biomolecular Chemistry, University of Wisconsin, Madison, WI, United States

Abstract
Numerous studies have examined wound healing and tissue repair after a complete tissue rupture and reported provisional matrix and scar tissue formation in the injury gap. The initial phases of the repair are largely mediated by the coagulation response and a principally extrinsic inflammatory response followed by type III collagen deposition to form scar tissue that may be later remodeled.

……….
following a Grade II subfailure injury to the collagen matrix, we conclude that tissue remodeling is fibroblast-mediated and occurs without scar tissue formation, but instead with type I collagen fibrillogenesis to repair the tissue.
Subfailure damage repairing in ligaments
Healing?
firegoat - Loading, lengthening, healing.

So, the healing process of the tissue that had gros ruptures is different from healing of subfailure damaged tissue. The idea that the tissue has to heal in a longer state, stretching it, is based on a false premise.

And: when there is a gros tissue rupture, stretching is not applied right after the trauma, but when the healing process is already on the path, and scar tissue has to be very gently stretched. Applying any stretch on a teared tissue will just cause more trauma/slower healing.

This theory is also disproved by empiric evidence: how could most used routine, based on 2 on- 1 off or 3 on - 1 off schedule, elongate the penis?


Last edited by marinera : 01-04-2009 at .

Originally Posted by marinera
Penis is not a bone.

I think I said that. Whats your point?
Originally Posted by marinera
Abstract
Numerous studies have examined wound healing and tissue repair after a complete tissue rupture and reported provisional matrix and scar tissue formation in the injury gap. The initial phases of the repair are largely mediated by the coagulation response and a principally extrinsic inflammatory response followed by type III collagen deposition to form scar tissue that may be later remodeled.

……….
following a Grade II subfailure injury to the collagen matrix, we conclude that tissue remodeling is fibroblast-mediated and occurs without scar tissue formation, but instead with type I collagen fibrillogenesis to repair the tissue.
Subfailure damage repairing in ligaments
Healing?
firegoat - Loading, lengthening, healing.

So you’ve made my point. What now?
Quote
So, the healing process of the tissue that had gros ruptures is different from healing of subfailure damaged tissue. The idea that the tissue has to heal in a longer state, stretching it, is based on a false premise.

This conclusion is your Opinion. You also said that with this method that healing would produce a lengthened condition because that would be the last longest state. Make up your mind.
Quote
And: when there is a gros tissue rupture, stretching is not applied right after the trauma, but when the healing process is already on the path, and scar tissue has to be very gently stretched. Applying any stretch on a teared tissue will just cause more trauma/slower healing.

Again your opinion. WE are doing something different then doctors would do to treat what we are taking control of.

Lets not bring in irrelevant material. The consideration of completely ruptured ligaments is not and was not being considered here. Again your attempt to confuse and distract the dialogue


09-2003 BPEL:6.0x5.5

11-2004 BPEL:8.25x6.25 . . 9+ by Spring is the goal AIR CLAMP

Now BPEL:8 5/8 x 6 5/8 PE Weights

What we take away when we consider the findings of the medical community is, if WE apply this knowledge to our own ends, we can manipulate and control growth of our own tissues. We are effectively gaining control of the healing process of the body to facilitate our goals and that is penis growth or enlargement. Principles HAVE to be maintained. If you violate these principles then you will end up with frustration and the goal cannot be reached. Few that have maintained a consistent and disciplined routine will find plateau’s in there progress.


09-2003 BPEL:6.0x5.5

11-2004 BPEL:8.25x6.25 . . 9+ by Spring is the goal AIR CLAMP

Now BPEL:8 5/8 x 6 5/8 PE Weights

Originally Posted by Monty:
I think I said that. Whats your point?

So you’ve made my point. What now?

This conclusion is your Opinion. You also said that with this method that healing would produce a lengthened condition because that would be the last longest state. Make up your mind.

Again your opinion. WE are doing something different then doctors would do to treat what we are taking control of.

Lets not bring in irrelevant material. The consideration of completely ruptured ligaments is not and was not being considered here. Again your attempt to confuse and distract the dialogue

:rolling: :rolling:

Originally Posted by ThunderSS
I am getting real fucking tired of you two not being able to have a decent discussion. Real fucking tired.

Amen! This is the point that the two would be directed to the board designed exactly for this kind of shit (hash it out). Of coarse that’s the last time we would see these two again because they would never agree long enough to ever leave that thread!


Starting stats NBPEL 6" x EG 4.125" --> Mar 2008 NBPEL 7" x EG 5.25" Current Stats 7" NBPEL x 5.75" EG (Post 1st Round PMMA)

My noose style extender modification

My jelq routine

This thread is just annoying to read now.

Originally Posted by 9_in_richard
Amen! This is the point that the two would be directed to the board designed exactly for this kind of shit (hash it out). Of coarse that’s the last time we would see these two again because they would never agree long enough to ever leave that thread!

Nobody would be reading this thread to notice they were gone. Everybody would be over at the Fights threads.


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Originally Posted by ThunderSS
Nobody would be reading this thread to notice they were gone. Everybody would be over at the Fights threads.

That’s why you’re the big cheese! Good answer!


Starting stats NBPEL 6" x EG 4.125" --> Mar 2008 NBPEL 7" x EG 5.25" Current Stats 7" NBPEL x 5.75" EG (Post 1st Round PMMA)

My noose style extender modification

My jelq routine

I read the threads because I would like to know more, seams as if both are correct on what they say, I was just looking for more people with similar experiences, I’m sure people have came to either one of these conclusions.


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05/10/09 Bpel 7.50 Eg 5.1 base 5.5 11/10/09 Bpel 7.6875 EG 5.125. Goal is as much as I can

Originally Posted by marinera
So, the healing process of the tissue that had gros ruptures is different from healing of subfailure damaged tissue. The idea that the tissue has to heal in a longer state, stretching it, is based on a false premise.

I have to agree with Mari on this one. Look at gymnasts, they stretch their ligaments every day for an 2-3 hours but when they aren’t stretching they’re just doing what any of us would do.

I believe it’s not healing in an extended state that will cause elongation but rather the frequency of stretching. I mean, you don’t see gymnasts getting round town while doing the splits all the time.

The way tissue heals itself is Neural Adaptation. The tissue heals itself in response to training stimuli and adapts to the way it’s being used. Smash your cock with a hammer every day and eventually it will shrivel up and become as hard as a rock in order to protect itself. Stretch and jelq every day and it will (or should in some cases) grow longer.

But then again, there’s so much about our bodies that we’ve yet to discover and understand.

Originally Posted by ThunderSS
Nobody would be reading this thread to notice they were gone. Everybody would be over at the Fights threads.

Maybe you should charge admission? :)

Monty and Mari can fund TP through spectator admissions.

Originally Posted by Tossed Salad
I have to agree with Mari on this one. Look at gymnasts, they stretch their ligaments every day for an 2-3 hours but when they aren’t stretching they’re just doing what any of us would do.

I believe it’s not healing in an extended state that will cause elongation but rather the frequency of stretching. I mean, you don’t see gymnasts getting round town while doing the splits all the time.

The way tissue heals itself is Neural Adaptation. The tissue heals itself in response to training stimuli and adapts to the way it’s being used. Smash your cock with a hammer every day and eventually it will shrivel up and become as hard as a rock in order to protect itself. Stretch and jelq every day and it will (or should in some cases) grow longer.

But then again, there’s so much about our bodies that we’ve yet to discover and understand.


Hold it Tossed. Gymnasts are stretching it’s true but they aren’t intending to keep the stretch just keep the ability to stretch. We on the other hand are endeavoring to retain the stretched condition. When a gymnast goes for days without stretching they have to start over at getting the ligs to relax out again. If they were to maintain the stretch all the time then they would have very loose joints which would work counter to their exercises and even allow a joint to dislocate. Happens to them all the time. When they relax between workouts the ligaments do heal and become stronger. That is detrimental to their discipline. They need really strong ligaments. There is another aspect and that is they need to start their workouts by stretching. Why? Because between workouts the ligs heal and shrink, otherwise they wouldn’t need to stretch every day or at least prior to a workout.

Frankly I think if you smashed your cock with a hammer everyday it would just become flatter. :rolling:


09-2003 BPEL:6.0x5.5

11-2004 BPEL:8.25x6.25 . . 9+ by Spring is the goal AIR CLAMP

Now BPEL:8 5/8 x 6 5/8 PE Weights

Originally Posted by Monty:
………
When they relax between workouts the ligaments do heal and become stronger. That is detrimental to their discipline. ..

It’s called de-training. A gymnast can stretch just 1-2 times/week and maintain the ability to stretch, so it can’t be a matter of ‘healing in a shorter state’; if it was, their would start loosing the ability to stretch after few hours, not days.

Tossed in right to me, and this also accords to what firegoat wrote on the subject - maybe somebody could know that firegoat works in the physiotherapist field.

Also, is exactly supported by the very specific study I reported above. I would like to read a study that supports the idea that, has a consequence of a light damage, the connective tissue shrinks permanently - because this is the point.

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