Thunder's Place

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Warning! If you haven't gotten improved erections:

Sparky, seems good enough to me. I think girth might be a little trickier but I’ll do my own experimentation and see if I can contribute some more to this thread.

Your work so far has been nothing but brilliant.

Originally Posted by gmarceau
Sparkyx, what about if you’re working the tunica? Does it matter if your erection quality suffers since you’re stretching the tunica?

My thoughts are: The more you stretch the tunica, the more you’re going to stimulate growth- I don’t believe you can overtrain this. Well, I take that back. There is a point where you need a break just to get back to a tolerable soreness. At least, that was how it was for when I worked on ligs. If there was a point where the soreness was so ridiculously intense, I would take a day off, otherwise, my erections were great.

I DO think you can overtrain the structure of the penis, as far as the CC, etc. is concerned since we’re talking about muscles here. It’s smooth muscle, but muscle nonetheless.

What do you think?

I forgot to mention, the reason I’m concerned with this frequency with tunica work, is my fear that if I don’t frequently exercise the tunica, the size will remain the same. I got to thinking of this, especially with some of the stuff that Kojack10 was recently posting.

All the structures in the penis are LIVING tissue, not plastic or metal. This means at some point the PE or stress applied can damage it to the point that inflammation occurs.

If inflammation occurs, contraction is usually seen along with it. If contraction and inflammation occur at the same time, decrease of size can result.

So, how do you get around that? Well, one strategy is to use a method of keeping it in an extended state while the inflammation heals and stops. A classic example is hanging followed by ADS for a few days. Monty is one of the pioneers of this approach.

Unfortunately, I don’t think this translates as well to girth although it can be done to some extent with constrictors like thera-p band or soft gel cock rings. The problem is if there is a lot of trauma, it will shrink up no matter what you do (girth wise).

The other approach is to limit stress therefore, minimize inflammation. With this approach, you want to find that fine line between enough to stretch the tissue, but not so much that you get inflammation.

With THIS approach, classically using jelquing or pumping, you do enough to get some expansion, and minimal contraction…and a heavy and full flaccid for the day is usually what you shoot for.

So to answer your question…depends on your responses. Some guys seem to be able to run their dicks over with a truck and still get great erections, others if they do 3 minutes of clamping they need a full day off.

For most guys, I think a good rule of thumb is if you aren’t gaining, and your routine is improving your EQ from your normal or baseline EQ…then you need to do more. If you aren’t gaining and you EQ is dropping, you are doing too much.

For guys that seem to keep generally good EQ no matter what they do, I think you need to rely on measurements more. So, what you can do is do your routine, lets say daily, then measure after a week to see if you have any gains.

If no gains show (assuming you are measuring accurately), then I would try doing a one on one off for a week and see if there is any gains or loss. I would also watch my EQ carefully, it may be that it improves dramatically, and what you thought was good EQ, was actually no where as good as it can be for you.

If you get significantly better EQ and or you make some gains, then you were doing too much.

So on and on with changing your perimeters, maybe if the above doesn’t make any changes, try 1 on and 2 off.

Overall, its far more helpful if you can see changes in EQ than have to go by measurements alone. Measurements alone is relatively slow, and makes it more difficult to figure out what you need to change to get going in the right direction.

EQ on the other hand can give fairly fast feedback and make it much easier to determine whether to need to do more or need to cut back.

So to answer you more directly, yes I think EQ matters with tunica, maybe even more than ligaments.

The reason for that is its far easier to overcome the effects of trauma and inflammation for ligaments by using ADS, than it is for girth with ADC.

Originally Posted by wangchun
Sparky, seems good enough to me. I think girth might be a little trickier but I’ll do my own experimentation and see if I can contribute some more to this thread.

Your work so far has been nothing but brilliant.

Thanks for that.

In the end, the “brilliance” of these concepts will ultimately be determined if it improves the percentage of the success for those applying the methods.

I am glad to say that I have regained my EQ (not the full 100%, but still about 70%) which makes me feel good again.

My kegels f.e. are getting stronger, just because I use less force when clenching the muscle. At first I thought it wouldn’t help, but it does.
I was using way too much force! Now that I’m using moderate force, I’m sure that I will have more results in the near future.
The past 2 days I got up with morning wood, which hadn’t occurred for at least one week.
So I’m getting more confident again now that I have found the right amount of force. And the future looks bright again!

Just wanted to thank you. ;)

Originally Posted by sparkyx
Thanks for that.

In the end, the “brilliance” of these concepts will ultimately be determined if it improves the percentage of the success for those applying the methods.

Well, hell, at least it sounds good.

Originally Posted by Pepsi
I am glad to say that I have regained my EQ (not the full 100%, but still about 70%) which makes me feel good again.

My kegels f.e. are getting stronger, just because I use less force when clenching the muscle. At first I thought it wouldn’t help, but it does.
I was using way too much force! Now that I’m using moderate force, I’m sure that I will have more results in the near future.
The past 2 days I got up with morning wood, which hadn’t occurred for at least one week.
So I’m getting more confident again now that I have found the right amount of force. And the future looks bright again!

Just wanted to thank you. ;)

Great, great…makes me happy to hear it! Keep up the good work combined with keen observations.

It’s now almost 10 months since I started PE. I got the newby gains followed by slow progress with wet jelqing. After 7 months I’d gained about 0.5-0.75 inch in length and very little in girth (maybe 0.1-0.15 inch)
At one point I measure 8 inch BPEL and 5.5 mid girth. I was frustrated by the progress with girth so I tried clamping. My dick didn’t’t like this and got a pain at the lower base with poor erections. I took two weeks off and things improved and at one point I measured 8.1 inch BPEL.

Clamping had no effect on my penis girth other than to shrink it for a couple of weeks. I then continued with jelqing; still no girth increase so I decided to try pumping. To date pumping has, if anything, reduced my length and had no lasting effect on girth.

After my second experiment with pumping I had seriously bad EQ for almost three weeks. After that time things seemed to improve but I had no increase in girth. I tried a very mild session of pumping combined with jelqing a couple of weeks ago and since that time my penis has had very bad EQ. My worry is that I’ve damaged the blood vessels/nerves in my penis through pumping and it will take ages to heal properly. Either that or it’s growing whilst resting but I doubt that. I’m now still resting but very worried I’ve caused my penis permanent damage through pumping. I wondered if anyone else has had these kind of problems with pumping?

Go to the pumpers forum and post that question…you’ll get good responses there.

My recommmendation (other than that) is lay off for a few weeks and wait until your EQ returns to normal.

If you keep your vacuum levels under 5 in hg, the chances of permanent damage are very little, even less if you stay under 4 in hg.

This is a posting on Chrono’s excellent thread;
Movin On Up

Just some concepts I have been thinking about.
————————————————————————————————————————

First of all, congrats and really,really well done.

By “break over point” I was referring to the amount of time needed to finally get progress started.

Lets say a beginner can only do 3 minutes of jelquing before he decreases EQ, yet needs 5 minutes before its enough to stimulate gains. If he starts with the 3 minutes, he will see improved EQ, but not much gains. After a few weeks he is able to do more and soon is up to 5 minutes with great EQ, now having reached his “break over point” he starts to see gains.

Yes, I find hard erections have a stress effect on the penis. For some guys, its a very small effect and has almost no effect on his PE. For some guys it is a large effect and will throw his PE into neg EQ or PIs.

Now, I think for most guys, a few minutes of edging is easily tolerable, but for many, if you go for long edging sessions, it gives you the same stress as a PE session, but without any gain potential.

Thats again why I stress the physiologic approach. You can’t just do a routine from someone else, you must READ what effect it is having on you and make the appropriate changes, or else you greatly decrease your chances of success.

Getting back to hard erections, it seems that nite wood doesn’t have this stress effect, rather seems to have the opposite effect. This is why I have speculated that nite wood may be a critical aspect of cementing gains. Why nite wood has such a different effect compared to edging…I can only guess.

Perhaps nite wood is self regulating, and edging isn’t.

I think that PE or penile stress causes micro damage to the penis, and my guess is that smooth muscle is the first to be injured. I think it releases some type of chemical signal that leads to smooth muscle contraction, hence the “shrinkage”.

Maybe nite wood, because it is not being controlled by the conscious mind and external stimulation (eg porn and stroking) it only continues as long as there is no or very little of that chemical signal. Therefore, you get all the benefits of increased blood flow and possibly GH and it shuts down at the very first indication of tissue stress, only to repeat later in the nite.

Edging or masturbation on the other hand can go deeply into mild tissue damage before you stop. And this isn’t tissue damage that contributes to growth, it is just smooth muscle damage and very little force to stretch tunica in a productive way.

This is all just wild speculation on my part, but it is not without some thought going into it.

I have been experimenting in one of my threads. As a result of that, I have started using a scale for EQ of 0-10.

This scale should help you quantify where you are and help you make decisions based on where you are on the scale on your movement on the scale, either up or down.

Because guys can have vastly different EQ, the scale is subjective, that is, it relates to you specifically.

So, lets say for everyone 0 (zero) means you just can’t get hard at all, temporary impotence. 10 then would be the easier, fastest, hardest, most frequent erections you have ever gotten, or at least gotten in the past 6 months or so.

So for some guys, that might be rock hard wood, pops up with a strong breeze blowing past you, rock hard wood all night that wakes you up, a woodie so hard in the morning, you can’t piss for a few minutes. That’s THEIR 10.

For others, they may never see night or morning wood, need a lot of stimulation to get hard, and once hard its only medium hard. Thats their 10.

So, you make your scale based on what your best is…AT THAT TIME, or at least in recent times. Remembering what you had at 16 and now your 80 will not be accurate! :)

As you PE properly, and your EQ improves, then you change your scale to reflect it.

Why do this? Because it is critical to be aware if your EQ is moving up or down, so you can adjust your PE and time off in order to move it in the direction you choose.

For example, lets say Joe Blow has been PE’ing for a few months with no gains. He reads this article and realizes his EQ is shit, about 2 on the scale. He creates his scale on his best EQ that he had before he started to PE and it went down the toilet.

So, realizing he is probably doing too much, he decides to raise his EQ by taking a week off, then cutting his normal PE workout in half.

After a few weeks of this approach he finds his EQ soaring, and actually is above what was his old 10. Proper PE has given him far better EQ than he had before.

What he notices is that he made some gains too, but they stopped as his EQ hit a new 10.
After reading more on Thunders, he came across the concept that for many guys, a 10 on EQ means they are fully recovered, and actually many guys do better at a EQ of about 8.
The 8 indicates that they have stressed their dicks, but not so much that they aren’t growing, but are stressed enough to stimulate growth.

So Joe, slightly increases his PE which drops his EQ down to 8…and he finds that he is getting slow but steady increases in his bpfsl and after a while it starts to show in his bpel.

Inspired by his success, like all good PE’ers, he decides that if beating up his dick a little was good, beating up his dick A LOT would be even better!

So, he really cranks up the PE, and sure enough within a few days, his EQ went to shit again, and he is down at about a 2. Devoted as he is, he is willing to sacrifice all in the pursuit of gains, so he keeps it up for a few weeks.

Unfortunately, what Joe notices is that all gains come to a halt at that EQ level.

Joe however is a smart cookie, and he realizes that for HIM, growth starts at about 7 and stop at about 9. So, Joe after realizing this, intelligently manipulates his PE and time off to keep his EQ between those two points.

Joe grows a huge dick and lives happily ever after.

Originally Posted by sparkyx

So, lets say for everyone 0 (zero) means you just can’t get hard at all, temporary impotence. 10 then would be the easier, fastest, hardest, most frequent erections you have ever gotten, or at least gotten in the past 6 months or so.

So for some guys, that might be rock hard wood, pops up with a strong breeze blowing past you, rock hard wood all night that wakes you up, a woodie so hard in the morning, you can’t piss for a few minutes. That’s THEIR 10.

For others, they may never see night or morning wood, need a lot of stimulation to get hard, and once hard its only medium hard. Thats their 10.

I disagree, what you’re proposing is a sliding scale thats always changing and is different for every person. A Rock hard erection is a 10, and if somone can only get medium hard then thats a 5, and if they can’t get to a 10 then so be it, but its still a 5 and not a 10.

Originally Posted by MagnumXXL01
I disagree, what you’re proposing is a sliding scale thats always changing and is different for every person. A Rock hard erection is a 10, and if somone can only get medium hard then thats a 5, and if they can’t get to a 10 then so be it, but its still a 5 and not a 10.


You could always start the MagnumXXL01 scale, with a rock hard erection being a 10.

I think you’re missing SparkyX’s point, though. Forget the linear number scale for a moment, and think percent instead. Your best erection is always 100% That 100% might be better next week or month or year. What SparkyX is saying, if I’m reading him correctly, is that productive PE might mean being at less than 100%, or put another way, maintaining your erection at 100% while doing PE might mean that you are not stressing your penis enough.

In another thread today (Lampwick - How long for first gains?), I made the observation that the absence of PIs (positive, negative or neutral) are in themselves a finding. My guess would be that if you have NO PIs, your efforts are too low and you need to increase your routine enough to get SOME kind of a PI. You can then adjust routine to get more positive (and possibly some neutral) PIs.


For Lampwick, becoming hung like a donkey was the result of a total commitment.

Lampwick, thanks for the explanation I kinda get what Sparky’s getting at, the EQ as a PI…makes sense now :) Maybe we should use the “Spinal Tap” scale and go up to 11…one harder :D

Originally Posted by Lampwick
You could always start the MagnumXXL01 scale, with a rock hard erection being a 10.

I think you’re missing SparkyX’s point, though. Forget the linear number scale for a moment, and think percent instead. Your best erection is always 100% That 100% might be better next week or month or year. What SparkyX is saying, if I’m reading him correctly, is that productive PE might mean being at less than 100%, or put another way, maintaining your erection at 100% while doing PE might mean that you are not stressing your penis enough.

In another thread today (Lampwick - How long for first gains?), I made the observation that the absence of PIs (positive, negative or neutral) are in themselves a finding. My guess would be that if you have NO PIs, your efforts are too low and you need to increase your routine enough to get SOME kind of a PI. You can then adjust routine to get more positive (and possibly some neutral) PIs.

Hey guys! Just got back from overseas trip of two weeks.

You are right Lampwick, I think it will be a more accurate indicator of when to add, subtract from or stay at your PE level by it being a percentage of you best EQ. I may be wrong, but thats how I am using it now.

You are also correct in that I think being at 100% might mean you are slightly undertrained, but that may vary with the individual, but thats what I am thinking as of now.

Listen, everything I say isn’t written in stone, but to share this stuff I have to set some perimeters, so I give the best I have at the time. Over time I have changed many of my thoughts as I see it either proven or disproven by experience and experimentation, mine as well as others that show that they know how to limit variables and can report accurately.

But for now it seems most logical to set the scale on your best KNOWN EQ. So if you have greatly reduced EQ from your pre PE levels, you know you are over doing it. After you PE for a period of time (properly) your best EQ should be far better. THEREFORE what pre-PE might be fine EQ, post PE might actually be an indicator of low EQ. If you don’t take into account the changes ,you will be miss reading you scale.

On the other hand, if you have a set scale of 0= impotent and 10 = rock hard, I guess that could work as well. You would just have to note what your best number was, and when it drops from that, you have your indicator.

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