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Originally Posted by DR Pepper
Spark, I have a question. Earlier in this thread you mentioned that you felt it is best to only be about one rest day away from your optimal EQ while doing PE. However, you then cited an exception regarding hanging and clamping. If you would please elaborate on this? Also I’d like to note that edging and ballooning must put considerable stress on the penis also, because I had great EQ in the AM on my off day, then edged that day and ended up with less EQ the next few days. I think its worth mentioning.

Pepper

I think there are two basic modes of increasing the size of your dick.

First I believe there is frank stretching of the tissues, and this usually involves forces in the higher end of what we use in PE. In this catagory CAN be hanging and clamping. This approach also usually causes fairly rapid tissue toughening, then requires decon breaks.

Second, there are approaches that stimulate what appears to be true growth of tissue. This usually is lower forces, with more time and at a more frequent rate. This seems to allow a longer period of growth, with a much lower rate of injuries.

My comments address that some of the higher force techniques require more time off to return to high EQ. That said, I must say I am NOT expert in that area, but if I remember correctly, even heavy hangers and clampers rarely went more than a day away from great EQ…but I can’t say that for sure.

I remember reading (sorry I don’t recall off the top of my head) a guy who wanted to repeat a clamping experiment where the author claimed amazing gains. It required daily, heavy clamping. What amazed me is that he was reporting ROCK hard daily erections. If I was to do the same routine, I wouldn’t get ANY wood for about 3 days.

So, even with the high force routines, those that achieved success were also reporting either constant great EQ, or only were about a day of rest away from it.

So really, different PE methods seem to effect everyone is slightly or greatly different ways. Some may find low vacuum pumping is very gentle on their dicks, where others may find that that same vacuum level beats the crap out of them.

That is one of the reasons I have written on the Physiologic approach (PI and EQ), because it allows you to access how it is effecting YOU!

It doesn’t matter if 10,000 guys got great results with a certain approach, it may be way too much for you! If you have no way to determine the effect its having on you, then its just blinding groping in the dark…and your chances of success go way down.

I personally find edging will kick my ass if I go more than 15 minutes…so really, (unfortunately) I have to cut all that out for me to have great EQ and the possibility to gain. It took me a long time to realize this.

What things like edging do to me, is give the stress of a heavy PE workout, but not the potential for any gains. Not everyone is effected that way though, some can edge all day and not stress their dicks at all, some will ruin their progress for the day with even 5 minutes of edging.

If you learn to read your PIs, and keep high EQ, it either will put you IN the growth zone, or damn close to it so its only a small adjustment to begin to get gains.

With me it is usually outside forces that causes PI’s to go south, like diuretics can put my dick on hold for a few days.

You also must consider sleeping a well, not enough sleep can cause poor PI’s Lack of exercise, too much exercise. Over eating, not eating enough. Over PE not PE’n enough.

I can balloon or edge more than an hour sometimes two sometimes three, it just keeps getting bigger and bigger as the sessions lingers on. But if an outside force is involved it weaken the erection.


Speak softly carry a big dick, I'm mean stick!

Originally Posted by sparkyx
My current thinking is that I would recommend a routine that could be done on a daily basis, although many people get good results from one on one off or one on and two off. My thinking is that more frequent, lower force is better in the long run for penile health and true growth.

So, at this point I would recommend dropping down to 100 jelques (from 150 every other day), but now do it daily. I would do that by itself for about 2 weeks and access your EQ. If during this time you find your EQ improves even more, or at least stays the same…then I would suggest add about 2 minutes of stretching after those two weeks are up.

Thanks for the great reply Sparkyx,

All that makes perfect sense. It seems to be a great way to ‘dig’ to see where I’m currently at EQ and conditioning wise. I suppose if I don’t give it a little push and experiment a bit I wont ever know my current status of conditioning. I will drop it down to 100 jelq daily for a few weeks and see what happens.

One thing I will mention to you to get an idea of the potential frequency of workouts, I do notice a ‘mushy’ and light weight feeling in my flaccid penis the day after jelqing. I don’t know if this should be considered a ‘healing’ sign and PE should be avoided this day or not? The erections are still ok to maybe a tad bit weaker. Then a day later (third day) the flaccid is heavier feeling and all is back to normal.

Would this be considered an indication that a 1 on 1 off should be attempted first or are you thinking I should still try the every day routine with no rest days for 2 weeks?

Thanks again for your reply Sparkys, this is enlightening information.

Fitman

Originally Posted by Fitman
Thanks for the great reply Sparkyx,

All that makes perfect sense. It seems to be a great way to ‘dig’ to see where I’m currently at EQ and conditioning wise. I suppose if I don’t give it a little push and experiment a bit I won’t ever know my current status of conditioning. I will drop it down to 100 jelq daily for a few weeks and see what happens.

One thing I will mention to you to get an idea of the potential frequency of workouts, I do notice a ‘mushy’ and light weight feeling in my flaccid penis the day after jelqing. I don’t know if this should be considered a ‘healing’ sign and PE should be avoided this day or not? The erections are still ok to maybe a tad bit weaker. Then a day later (third day) the flaccid is heavier feeling and all is back to normal.

Would this be considered an indication that a 1 on 1 off should be attempted first or are you thinking I should still try the every day routine with no rest days for 2 weeks?

Thanks again for your reply Sparkys, this is enlightening information.

Fitman

The mushy weighty feeling in your flaccid is great you want to keep that!
The Newbie routine in the first few weeks is gentle enough to do 5 days per week.
However as you begin to add in more repetitions and even grip styles you may want to go fewer days per week with a rest period between workouts.


Speak softly carry a big dick, I'm mean stick!

Originally Posted by Fitman
Thanks for the great reply Sparkyx,

All that makes perfect sense. It seems to be a great way to ‘dig’ to see where I’m currently at EQ and conditioning wise. I suppose if I don’t give it a little push and experiment a bit I wont ever know my current status of conditioning. I will drop it down to 100 jelq daily for a few weeks and see what happens.

One thing I will mention to you to get an idea of the potential frequency of workouts, I do notice a ‘mushy’ and light weight feeling in my flaccid penis the day after jelqing. I don’t know if this should be considered a ‘healing’ sign and PE should be avoided this day or not? The erections are still ok to maybe a tad bit weaker. Then a day later (third day) the flaccid is heavier feeling and all is back to normal.

Would this be considered an indication that a 1 on 1 off should be attempted first or are you thinking I should still try the every day routine with no rest days for 2 weeks?

Thanks again for your reply Sparkys, this is enlightening information.

Fitman

There are major PIs, both negative and positive…and there are subsets of those, that may have hundreds of smaller individual indicators.

For those subsets, they are too subjective for hard and fast rules to be set for them. You really have to observe yourself, and determine whether they are a good indicator for you or not.

There was a pumper once, who had had good gains, and he reported “itching” as the feeling he got when he was growing. Does that mean everyone gets “itching”? No, but some might. The point is, I made a list of those signs that are fairly indicative, because they apply to most people. All the other subsets may well be excellent for you, but not applicable to others.

So, really, observe and keep track. That is how you will learn to read all your PIs, even the subtle ones…and it will help you get into and stay in the growth zone.

As far as daily, or 1 on 1 off or ANY approach, you have to observe your PIs and EQ and find what works best for you.

IN GENERAL, I am inclined to think the more frequently you can stimulate growth AND RECOVER from it, the better, thats why I think daily is better than 1 on 1 off, and that is better than 1 on 2 off…but none of those approaches are any good if you AREN’T RECOVERED by the time you hit it again.

My advise to you was, try and find a DAILY amount that you can recover from, which is why I recommended dropping from 150 jelques every other day, to 100 DAILY…as an experiment. But only YOU can read your EQ and determine if 100 is too much, too little or just right.

However, if you prefer to go every other day, I think that can also work fine.

Many guys may find that daily for 5 days is great, but towards the last day or so, they start to get decreased EQ, so they take the weekend off and by Monday, back to great EQ…get it?

You have to experiment, observe, apply PRINCIPLES of growth (EQ, PIs) and adjust your workout accordingly.

Spark, thanks for your imput. Its taking me awhile to figure out what intensity/days off would be best. You were right about better EQ when you have guaged a routine correctly because I’ve been there, unfortunately I usually up the intensity at that point and EQ goes down hill. I agree edging is a stressor and that always should be considered. When I’ve done too much PE I’ll experience some soreness after sex also. Thanks again.

Pepper

Originally Posted by DR Pepper
Spark, thanks for your imput. Its taking me awhile to figure out what intensity/days off would be best. You were right about better EQ when you have guaged a routine correctly because I’ve been there, unfortunately I usually up the intensity at that point and EQ goes down hill. I agree edging is a stressor and that always should be considered. When I’ve done too much PE I’ll experience some soreness after sex also. Thanks again.

Pepper

That has ALWAYS been my problem, I am way too quick to increase time/force and WAY TOO SLOW to heed the signs to back off.

I think for guys that have sensitive dicks AND a fondness of recreational application of force to their dicks :) …it may very well be why they aren’t making any gains.

This PE for many of us, to be successful, really requires a real application of DISCIPLE to strictly adhere to a well thought out routine, and NOT do any other force application to our units unless your EQ dictates it…or the girlfriend or wife offers! :)

It would probably be best to gauge when to up the force and or time, by a COMBINATION of EQ AND growth. If you are growing…just stay at that level until it stops. Then either up it by a modest amount or take a decon break.

In general, I think a short decon break (about 2 weeks?) would probably be the best first choice. The less force you are using in your PE, the shorter the break is needed.

Thanks Sparkyx,

I’m going to do some experementing and play it by ear (or Penis I guess I should say :) ) and see if I can pick up on any more PI’s.

Fitman

Originally Posted by Fitman
Thanks Sparkyx,

I’m going to do some experementing and play it by ear (or Penis I guess I should say :) ) and see if I can pick up on any more PI’s.

Fitman

Fitman…I think this is a MUST read for everyone;

Speaking to Big Gainer soon

It is a guy that reportedly gained over 4 inches (judge for yourself, I think it is an believable report).

The critical elements ( in my mind) is that modest forces were maintained, only time was increased. Time increases were modest and at 3 week intervals. I think these are critical elements to long term gains.

Further, if you were to add the concept of decon breaks (as Wad mentions) AND PIs and EQ observation to this approach, I believe most people can use this and get good results. Not necessarily using jelquing and stretching by hand (although I think there is no better place to start, and possibly finish), but using this concept with almost ANY PE force application.

I’m not saying everyone can gain 4 inches, but I think damn near everyone can get gains with this approach combined with decon breaks and observation of PIs and EQ.

So read this and get into your mind the concept of steady, slow increase of time, the use of modest forces…and being patient enough to wait until you hit your “break over point”…while watching your PIs and maintaining excellent EQ.

I really don’t see where you can go wrong with that.

Ya know, I read that thread a little while back and thought that guy was possibly an anomaly. Maybe he wasn’t, but instead stayed in the perfect ‘growth zone’ until he decided to double up his workouts twice a day, then he went overboard.

Interesting and motivational story none the less.

Fitman

Originally Posted by sparkyx
Fitman…I think this is a MUST read for everyone;

Speaking to Big Gainer soon

Don’t have time to read his thread… wonder what kind of EQ he ended with?

This is another PM, in which I discuss some key points and discuss “break over point”, which admittedly is still theoretical on my part, but explains what I have seen in many cases reported here.

———————————————————————————————————————————

Great to hear you are doing well. The more I understand this stuff, the simpler it is…really.

The problems come in when you have too many variables at once, changing too many perimeters at once, starting at too high a force and or time level, not reading PIs and EQ.

This thread has been around for a while, it is almost EXACTLY like “Newbie plus advanced” thread…and the guy gained over 4 inches length!

Speaking to Big Gainer soon

My thread…/forum/showthread.php?t=90302&page=4

is actually filling out nicely with more in depth explanations that should be quite beneficial to you.

My current thinking is it would probably be better to find a small daily amount you can do, than every other day.

The trick is you must start with a modest amount, keep it at that level for a couple weeks, and when EQ improves, you can add about 2 minutes of more PE. After about another 2-3 weeks, you can add another 2-3 minutes, IF your EQ is as good or better….and so on.

During this whole time, you need to be daily checking bpfl BEFORE your routine, and keep track. I think everyone has a “break over point” at which the force/time to recovery ability finally hits the point where growth starts.

At that point you should just hold your routine there and get as much growth as possible before upping it. The thing to remember, the least force required to get growth is always the BEST. The more force, the more you can move into tissue toughening, which can bring growth to a screeching halt…and requiring a decon break to make progress again.

So for you….try starting with 50 moderate force jelques (after warm up with heat). I think you should use a force that is still within the “pleasant” range, meaning it is comfortable.

Summarizing some of the guidelines I think are reasonable, after you are done, you should;

-feel sexually energized…not beat up…

-be able to have a good hard erection when you are done…

-look like it is slightly bigger. This last one is very subtle, but it should look and “feel” like it is slightly bigger. Many times this isn’t really measurable, and I wouldn’t drive myself crazy with it, but just see for yourself.

For guys like you, and many others with very sensitive dicks, it may well be that you won’t see growth until we have worked up to 15 minutes a day (or more), while maintaining great or better EQ than you ever had. It could also be far less time…you have to see.

That may take you 4-6 months to slowly condition and work your way up to that point where you cross your “break over point”. However, even if it takes that long to start to grow, in the meantime you have the hardest, best erections you’ve had since you were a teenager…and thats a great result in itself.

I think for many guys…if you don’t know about the “break over point” principle, you see lack of progress and almost ALWAYS respond by upping time and force… and EQ and PIs go to shit.

If you put all these principles together, slow steady ramp up of force/time (actually, I think force should remain moderate, and just increase time), while using PIs and EQ as safety “railings” to keep you on the “road of progress”, be patient and slowly increase time while keeping excellent EQ…I think you are damn near guaranteed that you will eventually hit your “break over point” and growth will start.

THEN…once you start getting growth, hold at that level, until growth stops. When growth stops you either add a small increase of time,or try a short decon break. I think a decon break would be the better option to try first.

Originally Posted by Fitman
Ya know, I read that thread a little while back and thought that guy was possibly an anomaly. Maybe he wasn’t, but instead stayed in the perfect ‘growth zone’ until he decided to double up his workouts twice a day, then he went overboard.

Interesting and motivational story none the less.

Fitman

I too think he may be anomalous in the total growth achieved, you rarely see anyone gain that much.

However, I think he MAY have been anomalous in his growth potential, but I think he used a very sensible approach (which I think we can modify to be even better) which should allow almost anyone to reach close to their genetic potential.

Gotta question, what if you change the workout and up the weight or the time or whatever have you but erection quality never goes down? When I was hanging on a daily basis, which I hope to get back to. I up-ed the weight and hang time. Fatigue set in with the 5lbs and 20 min session on the fourth or fifth session, so I went with 30 min sessions. No erection change, hard a piece of steel. Then I moved up to 7lbs and 20 min session, fatigue set in at about the 4th one, then I moved up 30 min sessions with no problem, hard as steel. Now I was never consistent long enough to really show gains at least that’s what I think. Now my questions is, because I changed not a drastic point but a fast pace, do you just increase the variables until the PI’s kick in? Or stay at the weight I was at and move up the hang time more and more? Now this goes for every PE exercise not just hanging?


Started 5.5 x 4.5 erect Length and Girth Goal 7 x 6.5 erect Length and Girth

Currently 5.9 x 5.5 erect Length,Girth and going !

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