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V-Stretch Theory Inaccurate.

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soflsun,

>… by pressing down rather than simply pulling out with the other hand, you get a better stretch due to the leverage that can be achieved by putting your upper body weight into the stretch. <

I had never really thought of this specific reason before. The V-stretch hand position apparently allows you to position your body so that your arms can generate more force. This is a good thing. However, this V-stretch advantage does not discount any of the counter arguments I made against the original V-stretch theory. My original reasoning that a primary advantage of V-stretches was simply the use of two hands as compared to one hand is similar enough to the point that you are making here that I now group these two points together. I will mentally add your point to my original opinions. I would state it as follows:

One of the primary advantages of V-stretches is that it incorporates the use of both hands, thus adding to the total amount of tension you can develop within your shaft. Whats more, the unique grip and arm position of the V-stretch allows you to put more of your upper body weight into the stretch.

> Also, if you face the septum as a limiting factor, by using the A-stretch for example, you can stretch the entire top of the shaft more than the bottom, having the added benefit of specifically attacking your limiting factor. <

This is what I meant when I said: “AV-stretches localize the forces at the point of the bend”, but you stated it in a different way, perhaps clearer.

> By using a large round fulcrum, like the wrist, the focused tension can be diffused in a larger area of the shaft. I think. <

You’re right. I think. However the larger the arc of your fulcrum, the less localized the forces will be. So you need to decide: Do I want to really seriously stretch a small volume of penile shaft, or Do I want to spread out the forces over a wider volume and accept that the forces will be less severe than if I localized them to a narrow band of shaft.

Now would be a good time to reiterate a subtle point that I previously implied but never outright stated. Generally the more points of contact between your hands and your penis the better grip you will be able to sustain and the more force you will be able to generate. However, I do admit that this is not always the case due to the very complicated 3-dimensional and deformable nature of the penis. For instance, if you pinch your penis between your fingers and thumb in the same type of grip as a jelqing grip, you will be able to create a high pressure chamber of blood (a so-called ULI chamber) ahead of your fingers and you will be able to impart a force into this chamber (and subsequently into a tensile force along the shaft) that does not rely on frictional forces.

I bring this point up because I think your use of your wrist increases the frictional forces you are able to generate. So if you are also pulling outward from your body with your wrist you may be able to pull harder than if you were using a smaller fulcrum.

Hopefully all this theorizing doesn’t go to waste.
Later,
Tube.


-Still bitter the y2k bug was a dud.

-My dear boy, do you ask a fish how it swims? (No.) Or a bird how it flies? (No.) Of course not. They do it because they were born to do it...

This is a simple question for any engineer in the bunch. It relates to vector calculus, I think.

Qusetion: Assume a six foot string is strung along two trees at the tension af 6 lbs. Option one…. the tree to the left in stretched leftward to produce a tension of 12 lbs on the string. Will this create a greater longitudinal force than….

Simply dropping a 6 lb weight in the center of the string already held at 6lb tension?


"Reports that say something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns -- the ones we don't know we don't know." ~US Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld

My uneducated first guess is no. Not, dropping a fulcrum onto the string will not produce the same ongitudinal force because and ONLY BECAUSE of the frictional forces created at the fulcrum site will create some loss.

I ask the engineers in this bunch to apply the theory or “arches”. Whereas possibly the outside of the arch would sustain greater than 6lbs of longitudinal stretch and the inside of the arch would sustain less.

Please, Engineers, help us out on this one. This is a very good question. Does the fulcrum stretch produce better forces than a straight out stretch?


"Reports that say something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns -- the ones we don't know we don't know." ~US Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld

Quote
Originally posted by grigli31
Does the fulcrum stretch produce better forces than a straight out stretch?

Grigli, currently the answer according to this post is yes. However, I am trying to make a coherent argument moving in a logical path from point A to point Z in a simple stepwise manner. You are jumping in at point G and then bouncing over to point alpha all the way back at the beginning of a totally different development. I’m sorry, I don’t mean to ignore your valid points but I will only get to them if I have time at the end. I am trying to keep things organized and keep the arguing away from chaos. It doesn’t appear like you are addressing any of the points anyone has brought up.

Later,
Tube


-Still bitter the y2k bug was a dud.

-My dear boy, do you ask a fish how it swims? (No.) Or a bird how it flies? (No.) Of course not. They do it because they were born to do it...

Re: Good thinking Tube, but!!!

>I believe your conclusions are only true when the downward force is applied to the center of the supporting filament. When you are not pushing in the center you are dealing with 2 different angles and the force is not equally distributed through the 2 resulting line segments. <

Great point. And TRUE too! I had never really analyzed this situation but I think there is a good reason why. When I analyzed the vector forces I assumed we were dealing with the idealized case of a one dimensional frictionless string of zero mass. Everyone (including me) needs to pay more attention to the assumptions of the model before arguing about the results of the model. The assumptions are like the most important thing. In the case of a frictionless string it is actually impossible to place any weight at all on the string without the weight sliding down to the middle of the string. This happens in the real world also to some extent. Take a loose clothesline for example. If the clothesline is loose enough (but not too loose) and you place a hanger (a standard triangle shaped hanger) on the clothesline the hanger will slide down the line until it rests in the middle of the clothesline. When is it possible to keep things from sliding to the middle of a string? Only when the friction between the two items is high enough.

Anyways, lets look closer at what you have suggested. The attachment below diagrams the situation you have proposed. Amazingly, its seems like you can increase the tension in a short segment of string even though your right hand is still pulling with the same force as it was in the initial diagram I posted in the very first post of this thread (ie 6 lbs). The tension in the two segments is indeed different. However, the hypothetical model MXL has proposed is not exactly what happens in the real world. There is more to this than meets the eye. Unfortunately the rest of my comments will have to wait until tomorrow as I am too tired now.

Cheers,
Tube

Attached Images
force_diagram2.png
(11.9 KB, 42 views)

-Still bitter the y2k bug was a dud.

-My dear boy, do you ask a fish how it swims? (No.) Or a bird how it flies? (No.) Of course not. They do it because they were born to do it...


Last edited by Tube : 01-27-2004 at .

Them’s fightin werds!

Your diagram is far more than I can comprehend and answers my questions. I hope it will finally put this issue to rest as it has been debated for some time.

Thanks, Tube.


"Reports that say something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns -- the ones we don't know we don't know." ~US Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld


Last edited by grigli31 : 01-27-2004 at .

A-stretching has targeted my tunica like no other manual stretching exercise I’ve ever done. Until I build my own hanger or buy one- the A-stretches are my lifeline until I can get my hands on a hanger. I must admit- the stretching is really taking its toll on my glans/ I look forward to hanging so I can heal somewhat.


PEing since Jan 1st, 2003

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